Mathews Inc.
Thistle control in clover plot
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 08-Aug-23
wytex 08-Aug-23
t-roy 08-Aug-23
Shiloh 08-Aug-23
smarba 08-Aug-23
CAS_HNTR 08-Aug-23
GFL 08-Aug-23
Old Reb 08-Aug-23
Pat Lefemine 08-Aug-23
Shiloh 08-Aug-23
Pat Lefemine 08-Aug-23
HuntingFamily 08-Aug-23
Pat Lefemine 08-Aug-23
fuzzy 08-Aug-23
Shiloh 09-Aug-23
Mitch 09-Aug-23
t-roy 09-Aug-23
Treefarn 09-Aug-23
Pat Lefemine 09-Aug-23
Medicinemann 10-Aug-23
Shiloh 10-Aug-23
x-man 10-Aug-23
Beendare 10-Aug-23
Mitch 10-Aug-23
Mad Trapper 11-Aug-23
t-roy 11-Aug-23
APauls 11-Aug-23
BullBuster 30-Aug-23
longbowguy 31-Aug-23
pav 01-Sep-23
Mark Watkins 05-Sep-23
BUCKeye 05-Sep-23
Medicinemann 05-Sep-23
Nyati 05-Sep-23
Pat Lefemine 06-Sep-23
Medicinemann 06-Sep-23
fuzzy 06-Sep-23
Nyati 06-Sep-23
Shiloh 06-Sep-23
Mad Trapper 10-Sep-23
From: Pat Lefemine
08-Aug-23

Pat Lefemine's DeerBuilder embedded Photo
Pat Lefemine's DeerBuilder embedded Photo

My once perfect, five acre clover plot suddenly has a thistle problem. I tried Imox and Butyrac but all it did was slightly suppress the thistle. I was wondering if anyone has tried Basagran on clover?

It’s not a treatment im familiar with but I ordered a jug and am gonna try it out. The field is exceptionally clean except for the thistle.

From: wytex
08-Aug-23
I may be wrong but I think we spray Milestone , spot spray, our thistle.

We have a small plot this year that did well but we did not keep up with weeds, it was a experiment for us. Over seeded the meadow this weekend with Daikon radishes.

Your pics and advice on here have been a real help to us. Best of luck with the thistle.

From: t-roy
08-Aug-23
^^^^Following. You could spot spray it with Stinger. With that patch, it should only take a couple months :-( Waay more thistles than I was envisioning from your text.

From: Shiloh
08-Aug-23
This obviously is different Pat, but I have had them take over a chufa patch that I sprayed post emerge and my Helena rep said that a pre was all that would get the thistle. I know that will not be an option for clover, so I am following……I have a much better field of thistle than you do!!

From: smarba
08-Aug-23
Little bit of a side note, but are thistles expanding their range? A handful of years ago it was rare to see a thistle, but now I see them everywhere in New Mexico, from pronghorn prairie to ibex mountains and everywhere in between...

From: CAS_HNTR
08-Aug-23
They are tough to kill, I know that. Never had a big patch of them so I have usually just spot sprayed them if needed - mostly with gly and a spray bottle or even brush to avoid killing what is below.

I dont have one, but a weed wiper would be a great tool for this problem.

From: GFL
08-Aug-23
I normally spray 1oz per gallon of glyphosate for the thistle I have in my clover. The clover will bounce back in the fall. I use 58% gly concentration. This is with Durano clover though.

From: Old Reb
08-Aug-23
I use a hand sprayer but my plot is small, basically a kill plot. The stuff is hard to control. The plants spread by both seed and rhizomes. I mowed it and then I spot sprayed each thistle plant. I would definitely mow it down before it goes to seed then spray as the thistle plants are starting to recover from the mowing. Good luck.

From: Pat Lefemine
08-Aug-23
There’s 5 acres of clover and too much thistle to spot spray. I’m gonna try a combo of Basagran and Butyrac next week. If that doesn’t wipe it out then I’ll have to use the nuclear option.

From: Shiloh
08-Aug-23
Just curious Pat.....with that much tonnage there why would you nuke it at this point in the year? I suspect that maybe you are just that anal about your plots, but if there's another reason I would be curious to hear. If my clover plots looked that good I would be tickled. Next to impossible to keep them in top shape down here with the heat. I've become very frustrated with how much work it takes to keep our clover plots in decent shape.

From: Pat Lefemine
08-Aug-23
Because I always nuke and start over in the fall. Late August is an excellent time to put in a clover plot. And I’d do a companion planting with winter wheat so my 5 acres is in production. But before I do that I’ll try Basagran first as the clover is very healthy and thick.

08-Aug-23
Good luck and please keep us posted on how the Basagran works. What ratio of winter wheat/clover do you use when/if starting over?

From: Pat Lefemine
08-Aug-23
Depends on the variety of clover but generally I go heavy at 10lbs/acre of clover and lighter on the grains; probably 30-50/acre.

From: fuzzy
08-Aug-23
Thistle are tough to control Pat, the only way I know is to clip them before they seed through the growing season and spray down patches you can't mow or miss with a "kill-all"

From: Shiloh
09-Aug-23
Ok….. I was thinking you kept your clover going all year and maybe drilled in cereal grains.

From: Mitch
09-Aug-23
I’ve used basagran to control both thistle and nutsedge. I’d follow the label and I think you’ll have good success.

From: t-roy
09-Aug-23
Mitch…….when you used it, did it eradicate the thistle, or did it burn it down, but then come back the following year? Did you do a single treatment or two, in a single year?

I was reading that it was effective on the nutsedge, as well. Same questions on nutsedge as the thistles.

If you can give us more details on what you did, as well as your results, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

From: Treefarn
09-Aug-23
Canadian thistle has a waxy cuticle so sometimes adjuvants are needed to help the herbicide absorb.

You guys using sub-label doses of glyphosate are contributing to glyphosate resistance. Trying to minimize glyphosate concentrations to not harm clover also makes weeds glyphosate resistant. Further, stating X oz/gallon water is meaningless. You always follow label and calibrate your spray volume/area. Please read and follow label direction, they are not label recommendations!

From: Pat Lefemine
09-Aug-23
I read the same T-Roy, it’s clearly effective at burning down the green’s above ground but I’m hearing that it may not kill it all the way into the roots. Hopefully someone here has experience with it.

From: Medicinemann
10-Aug-23
I have noticed a significant increase in thistle in more than one foodplot over the past couple years. I never used to have any.....I am of the opinion that it is a contamination from the the seed that I bought. My foodplots are nowhere near as large as those that Pat makes......so it wouldn't be appropriate for him to use my method......but I literally put on a pair of heavy welder gloves and pulled everyone of those bastard plants out of the ground by hand.....but damned if it didn't work.

From: Shiloh
10-Aug-23
I sprayed a beautiful field of chufa with poast and 24d and it cleaned everything up and then the thistle came on like it had been planted and fertilized. Following this one closely!!

From: x-man
10-Aug-23
To properly kill a thistle (and only thistle) you need to cut it off and drown the open stalk. Better yet if you can add some weed killer to the water. Or, if you have access to a contact applicator (no spray) for tall thistles. As a farmers son, dad never had any luck killing them with anything that wouldn't also kill clover. We would be out there just before a big rain chopping them off with the mower. Most did not come back. When we used chemical, it was Banvil (sp?)

From: Beendare
10-Aug-23
My client that had yellow star thistle was pretty successful in eradicating it on 1,000 acres….The Ag bureau told him the combo to use…have you asked them?

From: Mitch
10-Aug-23
I used Basagran to mainly treat nutsedge, but there was also some thistle in the field. I followed the label. I did a follow up spray (I think 2 weeks later) and the field cleaned up pretty well. I’d say my success on the thistle was better than that on the nutsedge. The thistle was terminated. The nutsedge appeared to be gone, but came back the following year.

From: Mad Trapper
11-Aug-23
When I was in high school I worked in the summers for a farmer putting up hay. When we weren’t putting up hay we were given a hatchet and a pouch of rock salt for cutting thistle in the pasture fields. We would cut the thistle off below the ground and drop in a piece of rock salt. It was boring work. I think that I made $1.25/hr. I might be willing to work in Pat’s fields but my hourly rate is a bit higher now.;-)

From: t-roy
11-Aug-23
Better get it in cash, Tom. I wouldn’t take any checks ;-)

From: APauls
11-Aug-23
I’d work for stand time Tom!

From: BullBuster
30-Aug-23
Just talked to the Basagran rep. He said it is not labeled for clover, except for clover going to seed. Not labeled for alfalfa or any forage crop. This tells me that it’s likely toxic to livestock and thus wildlife. He frankly doesn’t think it’s any more effective than 24DB or Imox. And neither of those are very effective.

From: longbowguy
31-Aug-23
I am with Medicinemann. My club's range is in a two square mile beautiful grassland. This being California the greenies claimed that grass was not native. So the wusses at the country recreation prevention department hired somebody to eradicate the bad grass and plant good grass. Probably cost them thousands of dollars.

What came up? Russian thistle. The low kind with yellow flowers.

Now, we have two 14 target ranges winding through a forest we planted and irrigated to get it going. Drilled wells for irrigation to get it started. I looked after the south range. I was trying to get good at archer so I went out after work six days a week. I resolved to in springtime when the ground is soft, to pull up 100 thistle seedlings a day. Six days a week is 600; 4 weeks plus is 2400 a month plus, for three months until the ground dried up and I could not pull them, equals 7200 plus. Times 3 years is going on 25,000 thistle seedlings pulled by hand. Another fellow did the north range. That is 50,000.

Now, after all of that the county planned a public meeting on managing the land. I wanted to go and speak. The club members physically restrained me from going, a felony. But they were probably right.

Danged government. - lbg

From: pav
01-Sep-23
Can't say I've ever experienced such heavy concentrations of thistle, but always get some. Like Jake, I've used gloves and pulled it out by the root. If the ground is too hard and dry to pull by the root, I'll use a backpack sprayer with glyphosate and load up the thistle in the center of the plant...close to the ground...to avoid overspray.

From: Mark Watkins
05-Sep-23
Keep us posted here Pat as I’ve now got thistle in my clover plots....first time ever to this degree:(

Mark

From: BUCKeye
05-Sep-23
Checked my radish and winter pea plot yesterday and wow- I have a major thistle problem. Only good news is the peas have something to climb.

From: Medicinemann
05-Sep-23
Is it safe to assume that thistle has a real small seed, like clover? For everyone that now has a thistle problem, do you believe that it was an impurity that was planted with a seed that you broadcast......or has it just suddenly appeared without broadcasting anything?

From: Nyati
05-Sep-23
I’ve had clover fields for 25 yrs. First 5-10 yrs ? I never had thistle problems but then all of a sudden it was there. I don’t remember if it was after reseeding or frost seeding but it’s been a pain ever since. 24-Db and Imox dosent seem to kill it. I’ve even killed everything and kept it killed for a couple years, reseeded and there it is again. I just try and keep it controlled the best I can . I’m interested to see if basagran does anything

From: Pat Lefemine
06-Sep-23

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Clean clover plot when this pic was taken. But I suspect the thistle was not killed at the root level.
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Clean clover plot when this pic was taken. But I suspect the thistle was not killed at the root level.
So one week after spraying Basagran, the thistle was burned up and black. A small amount of Pigweed was stunted and deteriorating. The clover was healthy and vibrant. I mowed down all the dead thistle and sick Pigweed. This is what the plot looked like a week later. Damn near perfect. But, two weeks later I am seeing some small thistle emerging so not sure if it killed the thistle down to the root level. I suspect it did not. The new thistle will not have time to go to seed and the clover field is lush and beautiful again. So for now, mission accomplished cleaning up this field, but I suspect I'm not done with my war on thistle.

From: Medicinemann
06-Sep-23
good update....thx

From: fuzzy
06-Sep-23
Looks good Pat. Controlling thistle is an ongoing multi year process.

From: Nyati
06-Sep-23
Thanks for update

From: Shiloh
06-Sep-23
Good job there Pat! I found out that what I thought was thistle is actually ground cherry. I could have smoked it with 24DB

From: Mad Trapper
10-Sep-23
Planted a plot of chufa this year to help the failing turkey population. Sprayed with Treflan before planting. Just broadcasted the chufa then disc it in. Chufa was spotty. Plot has been overtaken with thistle. Going to mow it high. Thistle will be the last plant to survive on earth and a coyote will be there to piss on it.

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