WY general elk odds
Contributors to this thread:Elk
From: DonVathome
17-Aug-23
Is WY going to split the general tag in several different units in 2024?
From: DonVathome
17-Aug-23
And if it stays the same what do you think it will take to 100% draw? I am guessing over 5 in cheapie pool and over 4 in special.
From: sasquatch
17-Aug-23
I believe so, will be a handful of big regions all with their own quotas if I understand correctly
From: Brotsky
17-Aug-23
Don, I think that depends heavily on what region you apply for. All just a matter of access to quality hunting in your preferred region.
From: Sivart
17-Aug-23
I'm hoping they do switch to regions if it will boost the draw odds.
From: PushCoArcher
17-Aug-23
My understanding is if it goes to the 3 regions the eastern region with poor access could become easier to draw but the other two with better access will probably get even harder to draw. I think regions is a good idea but there needs to be way more then 3.
From: wytex
17-Aug-23
Don't forget the huge price increase for Special draw. Odds may be all over the place next year and take a couple years to stabilize.
I agree Push, need more than 3 regions.
From: DonVathome
17-Aug-23
Very good comments and I agree with all of them! Good idea, more then 3. I forgot about big special price increase. I know the first time they made a big price increase and went over $1k special odds went way up, which was easy to see coming - not only the price increase but the mental $1k for an elk tag (at that time HIGH) made many apply regular, that changed in a year. It will seesaw especially for the average Joe who sees it was pretty much the same odds for either tag this year.
From: Mule Power
17-Aug-23
Too early to be thinking about that. Let’s get this season under our belt and see what they decide to do first.
From: BULELK1
18-Aug-23
Pricey $$ fee for a cow tag too, not too bad for a cheapie fee though.
I hope they go back to the Original 4 Regions for Non-Ressy Gen Elk.
I thought for sure they would have a proposal out for buying/adding points to the Reduced Price elk, deer & antelope.
Time will tell,
Robb
From: Pop-r
18-Aug-23
Joe you been out looking for any deer yet?
From: DonVathome
18-Aug-23
ahaha MP true, but I am always thinking ahead!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From: WapitiBob
19-Aug-23
NR Elk Regions were finalized a month ago; East/West/South.
From: Scott/IL
19-Aug-23
Does anyone have a map of the new regions? I thought I remembered seeing one awhile back but can’t find it now.
From: PushCoArcher
19-Aug-23
Here you go Scott.
From: Sivart
20-Aug-23
Are these regions a done deal?
From: DonVathome
20-Aug-23
Western odds will be higher, eastern lower and southern probably the same as now (plus point creep for all 3).
From: Mule Power
20-Aug-23
I’ll only have 1 point going into 2024 so not much to worry about. I’ll definitely be interested to see how the odds end up. Three regions… private, hard to draw dessert, and real mountain elk hunting.
Keep in mind elk hunting in that western region is hard. Really hilly. Lots of competition. Public land outfitters. Inaccessible wilderness. Grizzlies everywhere. Anyone reading this should probably apply elsewhere. ;-)
From: Pop-r
20-Aug-23
Lol
From: Sivart
21-Aug-23
I can't find anything on the WY website. Are these regions finallized, or just proposals?
From: wytex
21-Aug-23
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Get-Involved/Taskforce-Proposal-7250-NR-Elk-License-Cap
From: PushCoArcher
21-Aug-23
It's a done deal and will be implemented in 2024. I'm trying to post a link but keep getting a error message.
From: KHNC
21-Aug-23
Looks like nearly ALL residents are against the Regions motion. I would agree with it, IF , the cap was not removed. Wyoming residents are correct that lifting the cap would only give Outfitters more tags for NR's and more crowding for everyone to deal with. Splitting up the regions should help ease the pressure as long as no additional tags are provided for NR's.
From: wyobullshooter
21-Aug-23
wyobullshooter's Link
Here ya go.
From: Sivart
21-Aug-23
Thanks for the link. I read this as it is still a proposal? Don't see where it's a done deal?
From: PushCoArcher
21-Aug-23
"The revised Chapter 44 regulation will be presented to the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission at their July 18-19, 2023 meeting in Wheatland, Wyoming."
The commission approved the changes at this meeting for both the 7250 cap removal and the 3 region split.
From: KHNC
21-Aug-23
This approval shows the commission doesnt give a shit about comments and does what the outfitter association wants regardless. I read a ton of the comments. Overwhelmingly against removing the Cap, and mostly against regions as well. What a waste of time that was it seems.
From: wyobullshooter
21-Aug-23
Of course they don’t give a rip about comments. When the 18-member task force included 4 outfitters, one of which just happens to be the president of the Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association, it wasn’t hard to know the outcome.
From: thedude
21-Aug-23
Who cares? Just stop talking about states, units, and wy gen online and maybe slow some point creep.
From: wytex
21-Aug-23
Sorry dude that cat is out of the bag. Point creep isn't going to slow.
Wondering if we'll see some change when residents start complaining about too many NRs in general areas. Give it 2-3 years to see how it pans out I think on the regions. Really not looking forward to more hunters in the general areas, residents or NRs frankly. We might be able to get the commissions' ear now that that TF is over. What a farce for all but the outfitters.
From: wyobullshooter
21-Aug-23
wytex, I’m afraid now that the toothpaste’s out of the tube, it’s going to be hard to put it back in. If Sen. Hicks wasn’t able to stop the avalanche…. I think our only hope is they eventually divide the state into more than just three regions, but that’s about it.
And yeah, I agree thedude’s more than a little naive. There were 167,938 that had 1or more PP’s going into this year’s draw. That obviously doesn’t includes the MANY more that had zero. Point creep isn’t going anywhere but up.
From: Mule Power
21-Aug-23
Task force… why do I picture a bunch of guys with big bellies and belt buckles sitting around laughing their asses off at what they are getting away with? I can’t believe the state gave them any credibility. They learned from the wolf lovers. Hire your own biologists and don’t look back.
From: PushCoArcher
21-Aug-23
The original 13 region proposal was alright then they changed it to this s#!+ show. Residents are pissed and I believe this will cause even more of a outcry for 90/10 split.
From: Sivart
23-Aug-23
so they removed the 7250 cap. What is the cap number now?
From: WapitiBob
23-Aug-23
NR quota is 16% of full price LQ Elk licenses in the initial draw, same as it's been. The 7250 was a secondary cap mandated by the Legislature. The 16% has never equaled 7,250 so the difference was made up with Gen licenses. After the initial draw, nr still had not drawn the 7,250 so the dept went back and reissued more special Gen licenses to make up the difference; last few years about 300. Those addl licenses do not show up on the demand report and is why the special gen random odds were always better than what was shown and generally reported. Now that the 7,250 cap is gone, nr will continue to draw up to the 16% full price LQ quota but the GEN region quotas will be hard limits and set each year at the April Meeting. The leftover draw will continue as it has been and those licenses are not subject to a cap.
The reduced price licenses are also capped at 16% in the initial draw.
From: 808bowhunter
23-Aug-23
So more general tags now? Draw odds should get a little better if so.
From: Brotsky
23-Aug-23
808, effectually less general tags in total as they won't give out up to the 7250 cap. They'll just give out the 16% WapitiBob alluded to.
From: mulecreek
23-Aug-23
Brotsky, you are not correct. The number of NR gen tags will be determined each year at the April Seasons setting meetings. However, in an effort to give NR hunters some idea of what to expect next year when applying in Jan, they made proposals on the number of tags in each region. These are not set in stone and will not be set until the April season setting meeting. That being said I think it is reasonable to say the final numbers will be close if not higher than the suggested numbers made in the proposal. Those proposed numbers are higher (i.e. more NR gen tags) than the number issued in the last several years.
From: 808bowhunter
23-Aug-23
"In our discussions, the Taskforce recognized the 7,250 cap for non-resident general license allocation instituted in the 1980s was based on the average of non-resident license sales at that time. There was no biological purpose for this number. The state elk population has increased significantly since the 1980s and new methods are required to manage these herds in Wyoming. With the cap removed, game managers will have greater flexibility to control harvest."
I don't understand the 16%? I take from this that the quota was set from herd objective and is over objective now in a lot of areas. Would that increase tag number to bring herd to objective?
From: Brotsky
23-Aug-23
Thanks mulecreek, that makes sense, I assumed it would be a decrease overall.
From: mulecreek
23-Aug-23
7250 was not an arbitary number. It was about how many NR elk licenses they gave out in the early 80's when they started the cap. The 16% is the percentage of Limit Quota licenses that are available to NR's. Res get the other 84%. Gen tags were calculated using the following equation; 7250 - NR Full price LQ elk licenses = Available NR Gen tags. Since the implementation of 7250 Wyoming's elk pop has grown considerably. Therefore the total LQ tags have increased. Therefore NR are getting 16% of a bigger pie. As such the number of NR gen tags has gone down. Removing the 7250 doesn't change anything with the 16% NL LQ allocation it just stops the automatic reduction of NR gen tags due to the above equation. However, even with the 7250 NR cap in place, Wyoming gave out close to 13,500 NR elk tags each year. The increase in Reduced Price elk tags is the main culprit of this. Overall, as Wyoming's elk population increased so did the total number of NR elk tags. Which bucket they came out of may have changed but the total increased at a greater rate than did the overall elk population in Wyoming.
From: Jaquomo
23-Aug-23
This makes my head hurt. What will be the effect on tags available through the random special general draw going forward with the new ratios?
From: WapitiBob
23-Aug-23
The easiest way to digest the change is to think of the new Elk region licenses as 3 new LQ hunts; forget that there are multiple hunt areas within a region and follow the draw process as you do for the standard lq licenses. They'll split tags 40/60 special/regular, then each of those will be split 75/25 pref point/random, just like they do for the NR LQ hunts and Deer regions. They draw special first then leftovers (LOL) will drop to the regular.
Worth noting,
"(F) The Commission shall annually establish the nonresident region general elk license quotas in addition to the license quotas for limited quota hunt areas. "
From: Mule Power
23-Aug-23
I hear you Lou! Times are always changing. I’m always paying attention. But with no points I don’t have to overthink it. I get to watch and learn for a couple years. If the special elk doesn’t go up to 6 figures maybe I’ll apply in the special. I have a friend from Canada with a pile of points. Might have to get my fix guiding them.
From: 808bowhunter
23-Aug-23
Thanks mulecreek, that was what I thought I was reading. Gonna be interesting to see tag numbers between the 3 region. Would have been nice if they stuck with the map of more regions
From: Jaquomo
23-Aug-23
Thanks, Bob. Like CO after they eliminate OTC, there will be a learning curve for a few years. I drew special random this year and will continue to apply for that pool as long as I'm physically able to hunt.
Yes, it will be more expensive. So is every quality sought-after hunt now. One thing I've learned over seven decades is that one can buy virtually anything in this world, except time.
