Mathews Inc.
Griz attack in Banff 2 dead
Bears
Contributors to this thread:
Lewis 01-Oct-23
Scrappy 01-Oct-23
Scrappy 01-Oct-23
LBshooter 01-Oct-23
Canepole 01-Oct-23
Mule Power 01-Oct-23
bigeasygator 01-Oct-23
Patdel 01-Oct-23
Thornton 01-Oct-23
Ron Niziolek 01-Oct-23
Ou jagter 02-Oct-23
shade mt 02-Oct-23
Buskill 02-Oct-23
fuzzy 02-Oct-23
soccern23ny 02-Oct-23
elkmtngear 02-Oct-23
bigswivle 02-Oct-23
LBshooter 02-Oct-23
KHNC 02-Oct-23
HDE 02-Oct-23
Corax_latrans 02-Oct-23
Bake 02-Oct-23
WV Mountaineer 02-Oct-23
Bake 02-Oct-23
LBshooter 02-Oct-23
LBshooter 02-Oct-23
bigeasygator 02-Oct-23
Bou'bound 02-Oct-23
HDE 02-Oct-23
keepemsharp 02-Oct-23
Corax_latrans 02-Oct-23
shade mt 03-Oct-23
Shuteye 03-Oct-23
70lbDraw 03-Oct-23
DanaC 03-Oct-23
DanaC 03-Oct-23
Bou'bound 03-Oct-23
Beendare 03-Oct-23
DanaC 03-Oct-23
Patdel 03-Oct-23
Bou'bound 04-Oct-23
WV Mountaineer 04-Oct-23
Rgiesey 04-Oct-23
Thornton 06-Oct-23
RK 06-Oct-23
ryanrc 06-Oct-23
WV Mountaineer 06-Oct-23
fuzzy 07-Oct-23
From: Lewis
01-Oct-23
I just saw this don’t know details but I’m sure folks on way better than me can dig and show the findings prayers and thoughts for the family Lewis

From: Scrappy
01-Oct-23

From: Scrappy
01-Oct-23

Scrappy's Link
Husband, wife, and their dog. Horrible way to go for sure. Praying for the family.

From: LBshooter
01-Oct-23
Why is it that the response team is always armed when going to a bear attack site? Why do they get to have a weapon to orotect themselves and citizens must goin to the wild without a firearm for protection? It always amazes me that people wander into the wilderness unarmed thinking everything is fine and safe. Bear spray is ine way but I. My opinion I'd prefer a 44 or a shotgun on my shoulder. Wake up people and demand the right to protect yourself from wild animals, the government agents always pack when dealing with dangerous critters.

From: Canepole
01-Oct-23
Parks Canada received an alert from a GPS device in the Red Deer River Valley west of Ya Ha Tinda Ranch at about 8 p.m. on Friday indicating a bear attack, said Natalie Fay, external relations manager for the Banff field unit.

GPS device... Does that mean the bear was collared? Maybe someone alerted the authorities with a GPS device? Could someone enlightened me?

Of course prayers to all involved.

From: Mule Power
01-Oct-23
Don’t worry LBshooter they offer courses in bear behavior so you can determine whether a bear is acting in a defensive or predatory way.

What about if there’s no question what the bear is about to do? What if it’s chewing on your dog? Or your wife! Humanity is regressing. I bet Lewis and Clark didn’t need courses on what to do.

Skin that one pilgrim and I’ll get you another!

Just sad…….

From: bigeasygator
01-Oct-23
I would guess the GPS device was an inreach or something similar.

From: Patdel
01-Oct-23
Joe i think if they just maul you or kill you and leave its considered a defensive attack. They dont consider it predatory unless they eat part of you after your dead.

Pretty comforting eh?

Grizzlies are getting out of hand. Long past time to shoot a few. The canucks are out of luck i think, and we are trending that way.

Run ins with big bears in nw wyoming and sw montana/east idaho are common place and someone gets hurt bad or killed every year. Some poor guy in Big Sky got bit in the face and his lower jaw torn off. The bears are starting to figure out if they get in a fight with a human we arent all that tough.

Bumped into one this year at about 10 yards. It ran away, but they are so feakishly fast if it had had bad intentions we would have been screwed. Until you see one in road gear you have no idea. Its unsettling.

From: Thornton
01-Oct-23
They needed an illegal 44 mag.

From: Ron Niziolek
01-Oct-23
Prayers for the family.

Randy Giesey, Tom Vanash and I got lucky the other evening walking a trail through the timber. I was in the lead looking around and Tom, right behind me says “I just caught a glimpse of something big ahead “. I pulled my pistol and had a bead on one of the largest grizzlies I’ve seen, when he walked up from a low spot. I knew the guys were also locked and loaded. After a brief stare down which honestly was not that intimidating, the griz turned and left.

Had Tom not caught a glimpse and given a heads up, or had it been protecting a carcass or a sow with cubs, it could have turned out very differently.

It can happen quickly. The encounter was sub 40 yards.

From: Ou jagter
02-Oct-23
My wife and daughter had a bear encounter this summer in Yellowstone. A few noteworthy things about policy out there. First, the promotion of bear spray in lieu of a firearm. It's stupid and dangerous. Secondly, the establishment of so-called safe distances. It's 100 yards for a bear or wolf but 25 yards for bison. Bison are far more dangerous than bears. In fact, bison kill a much larger number of tourists in a given year than bears. So where do all these rules and policies come from? They are conceived by the same federal functionaries that write rules for your appliances, cars, and taxes. Overly complex and without regard to the real world which they've been so far able to avoid.

From: shade mt
02-Oct-23
The anti gun mentality is way out of hand in this country. This is the U.S.A not some other country, far to many yuppies and "protect the criminal and restrict society" ... Sorry for the rant.

But a handgun might have prevented it......prayers for all involved.

From: Buskill
02-Oct-23
Since this was Canada I’m assuming there is a strong chance a handgun was not allowed. Perhaps I’m wrong. If I’m correct, would it have been possible to carry a long gun for protection legally ?? I remember bringing a shotgun into Canada once and the reason I gave was “defense against wildlife”. I was not hunting. It was allowed across with me. Being in a park though I wonder if they allow guns at all. I bet one of y’all know and I’m not interested enough to search for the answer. Never gonna go anyway.

From: fuzzy
02-Oct-23
Buskill I'm not Canadian but I've been hunting a couple of times. My understanding is that even long guns must be "secured" unless you are traveling to and from a shooting range, or actively engaged in hunting. The remote bear/moose camp in NF kept a shotgun locked up which they brought out only when retrieving a shot bear.

From: soccern23ny
02-Oct-23
Our jagter... yes bison kill more people but I wouldnt consider them.more dangerous. For one there are simply more bison to encounter than bears. But yes 25 yards is a bit too close for me for a bison.

As far as the pepper spray debate there are plenty of studies out there that prove its effectiveness. And simply put, hitting a charging bear with a cloud of spray is easier than hitting them with a singular bullet.

Carry both, carry only one but sont go with nothing.

From: elkmtngear
02-Oct-23

elkmtngear's embedded Photo
elkmtngear's embedded Photo
"Only 14 per cent of grizzly bear attacks worldwide lead to fatalities, said Titchener, making this incident a rare occurrence".

Love the way they try to downplay this tragic event. Soooo, if a Grizzly bear attacks you, you have a one in seven chance of survival? That's encouraging!

Some hunters in a neighboring camp this Season, had to listen to an elk getting eaten alive up on the Mountain, they said the screaming was bone-chilling. I can't imagine how it would sound if it were people, can't imagine a worse way to meet your maker!

Snapped this pic this Season, after this big boar walked up to the base of my tree saddle, looked up at me, and huffed (20 feet from me). Then he took off after the 3 other Grizzly that had run past my tree. 7 bears sighted at less than 25 yards in one Day. Earlier in the day, 3 came running right into our cold calling setup, between KHNC and I (mom with 2 adult sized cubs). This was in NW Wyoming.

We need a Season on these things!

From: bigswivle
02-Oct-23
“bison kill a much larger number of tourists in a given year than bears. “

*need more bear selfies

From: LBshooter
02-Oct-23
My favorite line when one is attack is that they don't hold the animal,responsible, lol. If I get attacked , mauled and survive I'm going to find that bear and get some payback. At the very least when I'm out again and have a bear close, looking at me , he won't be for long. I understand they are doing what nature has programmed them to do, but since when does man have to do the opposite of what nature programmed us to do, survive! A hunting season for bears is a must and they need to know when they see man it means danger and run.

From: KHNC
02-Oct-23
"Unfortunately they had to kill the bear as it was being aggressive"

Sounds like its a good bear now.

From: HDE
02-Oct-23
LBshooter - response gets to be armed because they are far more important than a civilian, which by definition, is expendable

02-Oct-23
“response gets to be armed because…”

Or maybe because they are headed toward the site of a known incident where a Bear should reasonably be expected to be defending a kill, as opposed to heading into an area where a chance encounter with a bear is not specifically anticipated, but something of a possibility….

I’m not saying that people should not be allowed to carry some form of defensive system, but if you want mainstream acceptance of a practice such as carrying bear defense… or predator hunting m… or hunting in general, it’s useful to make a rational argument and not come across like some whack-job in a 3-layer tinfoil hat….

You can’t exactly expect people to offer to compromise with those who have made it clear up front that compromise isn’t an option.

From: Bake
02-Oct-23
I doubt the wisdom of using bear spray if the attack happens in or around a tent. How do you spray a bear breaking into a tent? Seems like that would incapacitate everyone in the tent. Last time I took my daughter camping in bear country (not griz country), I kept the 45-70 in the tent even though I'm not concerned about black bears. I just thought "What if?" especially since my daughter was with me.

Just a sad deal. With the current Disney mind-set towards mega-predators (predators in general actually), I foresee it becoming a far bigger issue, especially in National Parks and protected areas. Besides the Disney-ification, we also have a large issue of mass urbanization and general disconnect from wild life and wild places. Plainly put, most people don't have a clue how to act around wild animals or even domestic animals for that matter.

Signs and warnings don't matter. They don't believe it. "It won't happen to ME. It will happen to someone else."

There are a couple Instagram pages devoted to "Tourons", generally people doing stupid crap in Yellowstone and other national parks. Some of the videos will make you question the whole human race.

Guy I know spent a season guiding photo tours in the Okavango Delta. . . . he said he lasted a year because he couldn't take the tourists. Just no sense at all of how the animal kingdom works

02-Oct-23
Nice to hear the voice of reasoning.

Half the world isn’t interested in compromise. Only confirmation. Hard to reason with that as well.

From: Bake
02-Oct-23
Kinda like Pat poking a mamba with a 3 foot stick :) (Sorry Pat, couldn't resist :) )

From: LBshooter
02-Oct-23
“response gets to be armed because…” Or maybe because they are headed toward the site of a known incident where a Bear should reasonably be expected to be defending a kill, as opposed to heading into an area where a chance encounter with a bear is not specifically anticipated, but something of a possibility….

So Corax, when a hiker ventures into the grizzly woods they should expect not to find a bear defending a kill or young or whatever the reason and therefore should not have any defensive weapon(s)? It never happens that a hiker will come up on a bear sittin a kill? Or a mamma has Cubs and attacks to defend her babies? Lol

But rescue teams as you say reasonably expect a bear defending a kill? Give me a break! Why is it that the powers that be always keep a double standard toward the average joe? If you make the rules and force me to walk naked into the dangerous woods without a weapon then GD I want you as the ruler to do the same. Until folks start to demand equal treatment people are going to suffer the consequences. We are not subjects, and luckily in the USA the courts are starting to side with the people .

From: LBshooter
02-Oct-23
“response gets to be armed because…” Or maybe because they are headed toward the site of a known incident where a Bear should reasonably be expected to be defending a kill, as opposed to heading into an area where a chance encounter with a bear is not specifically anticipated, but something of a possibility….

So Corax, when a hiker ventures into the grizzly woods they should expect not to find a bear defending a kill or young or whatever the reason and therefore should not have offensive defensive weapon(s)? It never happens that a hiker won't come up in a bear sittin a kill? Or a mamma has Cubs and attacks to defend her babies? Lol

But rescue teams as you say reasonably expect a bear defending a kill? Give me a break! Why is it that the powers that be always keep a double standard when thes to the average joe? If you make the rules and force me to wake naked into the dangerous woods without a weapon then GD I want you as the ruler to do the same. Until folks start to demand equal treatment people are going to suffer the consequences. We are not subjects, and uckily in the USA the courts are starting to side with the people .

From: bigeasygator
02-Oct-23
In fact, bison kill a much larger number of tourists in a given year than bears.

Do they?

From: Bou'bound
02-Oct-23
Hopefully they did not die trying to save that hound that may have engaged the bear

From: HDE
02-Oct-23
@Corax_latrans - like I said, expendable. No reason to not think a dangerous encounter could occur given the very setting they're in.

Nobody intends on a fender bender, yet insurance is a thing...

From: keepemsharp
02-Oct-23
Just take the advice from the expert from "other".

02-Oct-23
LB… Slow your roll a second…

Pretty standard rule of debate tactics is if you have a sound, rational argument, Work It.

Carrying personal protection in bear country is a Reasonable precaution. Denying citizens that protection is Not Reasonable. Solid arguments. Take it beyond that and you seem like a nut-job.

From: shade mt
03-Oct-23
honestly i can't wrap my head around having to even "debate" this. What's to debate?

In my limited knowledge, It seems reasonable to carry a firearm in grizzly country, would seem far more effective than bear spray not?... The comments about the tourist, makes sense, people that don't spend much time actually hunting, trapping etc....are pretty clueless. Many of them probably don't even own a gun, many probably never even shot one. (imagine that, i can't)...

Then there are the .."save the bears, even if it means lose a few people crowd"... I mean if it was one of your loved ones, you gonna side with the bear?...seems kinda odd.

I mean really what's to debate?...hunt them, teach them humans are to be feared...carry a gun in grizzly country, if your attacked..well shoot the bugger....You tree huggers can pet em if ya want. then we'll send in a crew to scoop up the pieces...no debate needed.

From: Shuteye
03-Oct-23
If only they had my little double barrel 12 ga cowboy shotgun. 00 buckshot is deadly at close range. It is small, light and easy to carry.

From: 70lbDraw
03-Oct-23
“You tree huggers can pet em if ya want. then we'll send in a crew to scoop up the pieces...no debate needed.”

Spot on. Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend are a perfect example of that very mindset.

From: DanaC
03-Oct-23
Seems like every few days I'm reading about yet another bear/human 'encounter' and more of them are going bad. They do not fear humans. Populations in some places are growing too fast. Here in Mass. they lengthened the season for them and population is still climbing.

From: DanaC
03-Oct-23

DanaC's Link
Getting stupid out there -

Woman, 73, attacked by bear while walking near US-Canada border with husband and dog

From: Bou'bound
03-Oct-23
It’s still very very rare. That’s why you see it on the news. See any deer car collisions on the news or in the press ?

Was that Montana a grizzly?

From: Beendare
03-Oct-23
And the geniuses in the Pacific NW want to reintroduce them there.

Portland I'm fine with....grin

From: DanaC
03-Oct-23
Bou'bound,the point is that it's becoming far less rare. Bears - blacks and grizzlies - are in the news weekly now.

From: Patdel
03-Oct-23
Bou, deer car collisions are not even remotely the same thing. I have hit half a dozen or more deer and was never in any physical danger of any kind. If a grizzly hits you, you're going to get hurt and maybe dead. And grizzly encounters aren't exactly rare any more. They might be confined to a relatively small geographic area, but its happening multiple times every year.

From: Bou'bound
04-Oct-23
It’s still very rare 1000s of people win the lottery big every day and it it rare to win the lottery big relative to the opportunities for it to happen That was the point.

04-Oct-23
It’s almost a monthly occurrence outside of hunting season. It’s a regular occurrence inside hunting season. There’s nothing rare about it. It’s the expected norm.

From: Rgiesey
04-Oct-23
Someone on here said pepper spray is proven more effective. I don’t think that analysis is correct. Around here and in th news there’s a bunch of successful defenses with handguns. We sprayed some pepper spray in camp this year. Not impressed. Affect of wind was drastic and the range and volume made vow to work harder to be a good shot with my 10mm.

From: Thornton
06-Oct-23

https://www.foxnews.com/world/banff-grizzly-bear-attack-uncle-reveals-chilling-final-message-received-canadian-couple-before-deaths

"One can of bear spray had been fully discharged, but this bear was not to be deterred," he reportedly added. "

The very reason I'll be wearing my .44 mag this fall.

From: RK
06-Oct-23
Not in Canada

From: ryanrc
06-Oct-23
I think this should end any debate about spray vs gun. These people were more than educated on bear defense and still the spray proved useless. I would think it may deter some cases, but a hungry bear doesn't care.

06-Oct-23
I’d like to have a dollar for every hunter who’s said bear spray was better. That was the norm 5 years ago. Now there’s enough evidence to prove otherwise, it’s crickets.

From: fuzzy
07-Oct-23
https://www.popsci.com/technology/robot-wolves-guard-bear/?amp

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