Contributors to this thread:
FMJ 4 MM Arrow input
Any first hand experience and thoughts on these small diameter shafts that require an outsert.
Any tangible benefits to those over the standard 5mm shafts.
Bou- I personally like the small “micro” diameter (.166) arrows. I have not shot the 4mm axis (assuming those are what you are asking about) but would expect them to be a solid arrow. For me the HIT system is the weakness with the standard (5mm) axis.
I feel like I may have a slight (very) advantage in crosswind, and possibly a very slight advantage in penetration (especially with the outserts). But I don’t know that either of those have a measurable advantage. But I also don’t see any drawbacks. I’ve heard guys complain about quiver not holding them well, but I use a Tightspot quiver and it easily adjusts down to grip them very tight.
The arrows I shoot have a nice half insert/outsert system which I think is very good. No problems with the micro nocks (G size) and plenty of lighted options now too.
I shoot a microdiameter (Black Eagle X-Impact) and saw an immediate change in penetration. All goes back to Ashby’s principles. A diameter smaller than the broadhead ferrule is gonna increase penetration, a diameter way smaller than the broadhead ferrule is gonna increase penetration even more!
The internal components of the 4mm arrows and lighted nocks are their weakness. Find a good solid system you like and you will be good to go.
Been shooting the FMJ 4mm for years now and love them. They hit hard and are very accurate. I shoot 400 spine and use the Easton 55gr titanium half outs. I also use the Ignitor nock system for almost 480 gr arrow weight. Have never had problems with these arrows.
Not a fan of outserts in any form. I know the advantages of smaller diameter but due to dislike of both the .166 and .204 components, I still shoot .246 arrows.
I’ve used Easton 4 mm Carbon Injexion 330 shafts since 2013. Not made anymore but I have quite a few. For components I install the stock Deep-6 22 grain stainless insert into regular depth, but only for reinforcing as I despise the small shank on the D-6 components that is only about 1/2 as strong as the regular sized shank and threads. Then I install a Firenock outsert over the shaft end and use regular threaded broadheads, field points, Judos, etc. Gives more FOC and has been plenty strong for my 65# bow. Arrows with wraps, 3 Blazers and a 100 gr head weigh around 472 gr.
I’ve had great luck with these shafts and components. I assume that the latest FMJ 4mm arrow with good components (not D-6) would be excellent.
Bou, why are you interested in the small diameter shafts?
Interesting variation in opinions on inserts, half-outs, HIT.
My recent first experience with skinnier arrows (.204) insert-half out (no collar) on cow elk. Insert broke in half fortunately on opposite shoulder. Intact shaft fell out during death run. I'm going to try some collars with the insert-half outs during deer season along with some HIT without collars.
My son shoots them with 200gr VPA and it has been crazy what arrows have destroyed animals in seconds
They are on sale on Camofire today. Almost 1/2 price a dozen. Bou, you better load up.
Small diameter for me for sure. I love FMJ arrows. Penetration is awesome. And I am a fan of outserts.
Not FMJ's but I absolutely love the Bloodsport Evidence .165"'s. Best arrow I've ever shot!
No experience with the 4mm, but I love the 5mm axis and fmj's, I don't see any advantage to changing
I’m kind of in the exact same place Carcus
I have no experience with the 4mm either but I do live the 5mm fmj’s and axis. Prefer the fmj’s over everything else actually. I’m not a big fan of outserts or collars either.
4mm is a solution to a non existent problem.
I shot them for years decades ago when i was getting them for free.
Minimal advantage when it comes to wind drift is about it- yeah for a pro shooting 70meters it makes sense- everything else is a disadvantage;
Chuck adams pointed this out decades ago, no penetration advantage on live animals and I concur from shooting about 70 critters with them ( unless you use foam animals as a test media)
More expensive arrows
The outsert components you need to get your BHs straight are more expensive AND more labor intensive.
After seeing many hundreds of critters die to an arrow, these 4mm “arrow builds” are for the extreme overthinking it crowd.
Outserts negate any weight reduction benefit
Bou, why do you want to reduce weight? What’s the benefit? 4mm allow you to go heavier with a better FOC. But the internal components are weaker unless you look at the Snyder Core system.
Not looking to. Not moving to those shafts. Sticking with 5mm FMJs. Using 75 grain brass inserts for bear moose elk and musk ox. Sticking with aluminum inserts for other small stuff
I went to the small diameters to gain weight actually. 11.7 gpi. It creates an unbelievable amount of KE and flies like a bullet out of a rifle.
That’s the same set up I use. 75 grain brass insert but with a 100 grain broadhead. 340 spine but might switch to a 400 spine and a 50 gr brass insert instead. Arrow is cut to 27” so a 400 spine fmj would be just fine for me.
I’ve been shooting Black Eagle Deep Impact and X-Impact shafts since 2014 but I’m now transitioning to the Black Eagle Spartan shaft that’s the smallest diameter shaft I know of that uses standard inserts. When building the skinny 4mm shafts with outserts I’d only net about 8 or 9 out of 12 that would spin perfectly with a broadhead, no matter how careful I was. My initial experience with the Axis inserts years ago, when they were first introduced, wasn’t great either which is why I’m trying the Spartan shaft with standard inserts.
Outserts negate any weight reduction benefit
Bou, once again, why do you want a weight reduction?? I’m confused by your input on this post you created. Thanks.