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Ohio buck, anyone have details?
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Pat Lefemine 17-Nov-23
fuzzy 17-Nov-23
deerhunter72 17-Nov-23
Medicinemann 17-Nov-23
greg simon 17-Nov-23
HUNT MAN 17-Nov-23
Shug 17-Nov-23
Dale06 17-Nov-23
JTreeman 17-Nov-23
LBshooter 17-Nov-23
sitO 17-Nov-23
Michael 17-Nov-23
4nolz@work 17-Nov-23
Shug 17-Nov-23
Fuzz 17-Nov-23
buckeye 17-Nov-23
Robear 17-Nov-23
njbuck 17-Nov-23
Old Reb 17-Nov-23
buckeye 17-Nov-23
Zbone 17-Nov-23
Robear 17-Nov-23
drycreek 17-Nov-23
Robear 17-Nov-23
t-roy 17-Nov-23
Zbone 17-Nov-23
deerhunter72 17-Nov-23
molsonarcher 17-Nov-23
Shug 17-Nov-23
molsonarcher 17-Nov-23
BOHNTR 17-Nov-23
BOHNTR 17-Nov-23
Charlie Rehor 17-Nov-23
Sean D. 17-Nov-23
Sean D. 17-Nov-23
BOHNTR 17-Nov-23
midwest 17-Nov-23
Zbone 17-Nov-23
Straight Shooter 17-Nov-23
Zbone 17-Nov-23
Bou'bound 17-Nov-23
Pat Lefemine 17-Nov-23
Straight Shooter 17-Nov-23
Huntcell 17-Nov-23
Shug 18-Nov-23
BOHNTR 18-Nov-23
goyt 18-Nov-23
Straight Shooter 18-Nov-23
Zbone 18-Nov-23
Iowa booner hunter 18-Nov-23
Boris 19-Nov-23
Boris 19-Nov-23
Shug 19-Nov-23
Yttails 19-Nov-23
Zbone 20-Nov-23
Yttails 20-Nov-23
Yttails 20-Nov-23
Yttails 20-Nov-23
Zbone 20-Nov-23
Michael 20-Nov-23
Pat Lefemine 20-Nov-23
Ambush 20-Nov-23
Zbone 20-Nov-23
Indiana_GSP 20-Nov-23
Indiana_GSP 20-Nov-23
Highlife 20-Nov-23
Pat Lefemine 20-Nov-23
Indiana_GSP 20-Nov-23
Bou'bound 20-Nov-23
Pat Lefemine 20-Nov-23
Zbone 20-Nov-23
APauls 20-Nov-23
sticksender 21-Nov-23
Cazador 28-Nov-23
Thornton 28-Nov-23
Zbone 28-Nov-23
Bou'bound 29-Nov-23
Zbone 29-Nov-23
Groundhunter 29-Nov-23
Bou'bound 29-Nov-23
Zbone 29-Nov-23
Bou'bound 29-Nov-23
Iowa booner hunter 01-Dec-23
Bake 01-Dec-23
Bou'bound 01-Dec-23
Live2Hunt 01-Dec-23
Old Reb 02-Dec-23
gjs4 02-Dec-23
Zbone 02-Dec-23
Pat Lefemine 04-Dec-23
skull 08-Dec-23
Zbone 09-Dec-23
Old Reb 09-Dec-23
Old Reb 09-Dec-23
molsonarcher 09-Dec-23
Buskill 09-Dec-23
Pat Lefemine 09-Dec-23
Bou'bound 09-Dec-23
Zbone 09-Dec-23
Old Reb 09-Dec-23
molsonarcher 09-Dec-23
Zbone 09-Dec-23
Pat Lefemine 09-Dec-23
skull 09-Dec-23
Robear 10-Dec-23
Zbone 10-Dec-23
Robear 10-Dec-23
Zbone 10-Dec-23
Old Reb 10-Dec-23
Old Reb 10-Dec-23
Pat Lefemine 11-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 11-Dec-23
Old Reb 11-Dec-23
Zbone 11-Dec-23
Zbone 11-Dec-23
Bou'bound 11-Dec-23
Robear 23-Dec-23
BoggsBowhunts 24-Dec-23
BoggsBowhunts 24-Dec-23
JohnMC 24-Dec-23
Robear 24-Dec-23
JohnMC 24-Dec-23
Venom16730 24-Dec-23
Robear 24-Dec-23
Tracker 24-Dec-23
Zbone 24-Dec-23
RK 24-Dec-23
Iowa booner hunter 24-Dec-23
BC173 26-Dec-23
Charlie Rehor 26-Dec-23
csalem 26-Dec-23
skull 26-Dec-23
BoggsBowhunts 26-Dec-23
Zbone 26-Dec-23
Robear 26-Dec-23
gjs4 26-Dec-23
Bou'bound 26-Dec-23
Ksgobbler 26-Dec-23
Highlife 26-Dec-23
JohnMC 26-Dec-23
Zbone 27-Dec-23
gjs4 27-Dec-23
Shug 27-Dec-23
TREESTANDWOLF 27-Dec-23
JohnMC 27-Dec-23
t-roy 27-Dec-23
SteveB 27-Dec-23
Robear 27-Dec-23
Catscratch 27-Dec-23
bigswivle 27-Dec-23
Lee 27-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 27-Dec-23
Bou'bound 27-Dec-23
RK 27-Dec-23
Hunts_with_stick 27-Dec-23
Thornton 27-Dec-23
Bowboy 27-Dec-23
Nick Muche 27-Dec-23
Lee 27-Dec-23
scentman 27-Dec-23
TREESTANDWOLF 27-Dec-23
Shug 27-Dec-23
t-roy 27-Dec-23
scentman 27-Dec-23
Shug 27-Dec-23
Zbone 27-Dec-23
Bou'bound 27-Dec-23
Zbone 27-Dec-23
Tracker 27-Dec-23
Quinn @work 27-Dec-23
BoggsBowhunts 27-Dec-23
TonyBear 27-Dec-23
Robear 27-Dec-23
Shug 27-Dec-23
Charlie Rehor 27-Dec-23
RK 27-Dec-23
Shug 27-Dec-23
Robear 27-Dec-23
Cazador 27-Dec-23
Shug 27-Dec-23
Iowa booner hunter 27-Dec-23
Recurve Man 27-Dec-23
Dale06 27-Dec-23
Zbone 27-Dec-23
Shug 27-Dec-23
Zbone 27-Dec-23
scentman 27-Dec-23
Thornton 27-Dec-23
Nick Muche 28-Dec-23
Venom16730 28-Dec-23
RonP 28-Dec-23
TREESTANDWOLF 28-Dec-23
Brotsky 28-Dec-23
Bowboy 28-Dec-23
Groundhunter 28-Dec-23
Bowboy 28-Dec-23
Patdel 28-Dec-23
Groundhunter 28-Dec-23
Lee 28-Dec-23
JohnMC 28-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 28-Dec-23
Zbone 28-Dec-23
Zbone 28-Dec-23
Patdel 28-Dec-23
be still 28-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 28-Dec-23
Indiana_GSP 28-Dec-23
Zbone 28-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 28-Dec-23
Thornton 28-Dec-23
Iowa booner hunter 28-Dec-23
Patdel 28-Dec-23
Bou'bound 28-Dec-23
Iowa booner hunter 28-Dec-23
Coop 28-Dec-23
TREESTANDWOLF 28-Dec-23
molsonarcher 29-Dec-23
scentman 29-Dec-23
Venom16730 29-Dec-23
Catscratch 29-Dec-23
CAS_HNTR 29-Dec-23
KHNC 29-Dec-23
Bou'bound 29-Dec-23
TREESTANDWOLF 29-Dec-23
Highlife 29-Dec-23
Jebediah 29-Dec-23
bigswivle 29-Dec-23
goyt 29-Dec-23
Zbone 29-Dec-23
t-roy 29-Dec-23
Bou'bound 29-Dec-23
Tjm1534 30-Dec-23
Cazador 22-Jan-24
Boreal 22-Jan-24
Zbone 22-Jan-24
Bou'bound 22-Jan-24
Lawboytom 25-Jan-24
Pat Lefemine 25-Jan-24
JB 25-Jan-24
Grey Ghost 25-Jan-24
Jimmyjumpup 25-Jan-24
Korey Wolfe 26-Jan-24
Zbone 26-Jan-24
Bou'bound 26-Jan-24
Zbone 26-Jan-24
BoggsBowhunts 26-Jan-24
Wv hillbilly 26-Jan-24
Zbone 26-Jan-24
400 Elk @Home 26-Jan-24
Wv hillbilly 26-Jan-24
Bou'bound 29-Jan-24
Zbone 22-Feb-24
Bou'bound 22-Feb-24
From: Pat Lefemine
17-Nov-23

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Just got this from Dan Everson. Not sure if it’s a xbow or bow kill. Ridiculous!

From: fuzzy
17-Nov-23
"Needed another year"

From: deerhunter72
17-Nov-23
Holy moly!! We need details on that.

From: Medicinemann
17-Nov-23
He was helping some Amish guys retrieve a coon dog that had run onto a neighbors property. Apparently the neighbor's ebike spooked the buck and it ran past him at 10 yards...... :)

From: greg simon
17-Nov-23
What a beast!!! Unfortunately B&C rules will kill him on that left G2/G3 with a common base.

From: HUNT MAN
17-Nov-23
I heard it had 50 inches of mass with 32 inch main beams and scores 206 3/8.

From: Shug
17-Nov-23
I’m gonna go on record.. rumor’s already started that it’s killed illegally and being looked into..I’m not saying 100% But ya never know

From: Dale06
17-Nov-23
I don’t know or care about B&C or P&Y rules, but that’s a stud, whether the tines come from the same base or not.

From: JTreeman
17-Nov-23
Classy hero pics too!

—Jim

From: LBshooter
17-Nov-23
Always amazes me how antlers can grow so large in such a short time. You probably could have watched his antlers grow while he fed in August lol. Anyone know if it was a trad kill or compound? Anyone have a guess how much that rack is worth if it's a record?

From: sitO
17-Nov-23
I heard it was shot by a tiny ninja

From: Michael
17-Nov-23
Wow what a buck. Congrats to the hunter

From: 4nolz@work
17-Nov-23
Yeah I would have passed because of the B&C deductions :) BTW nets are for fish give me the gross!

From: Shug
17-Nov-23
Dbl

From: Fuzz
17-Nov-23
Ears are droopy... definitely fake lol!

From: buckeye
17-Nov-23
Dang, that's rediculous.

From: Robear
17-Nov-23
Clinton County, near Dayton is what I’m hearing.

From: njbuck
17-Nov-23
buck of many many lifetimes!

From: Old Reb
17-Nov-23
Also heard Clinton County. Also heard recreational land and hunting lease values just tripled in Clinton County. Lol

From: buckeye
17-Nov-23
I grew up in Warren county, which borders Clinton. I can't remember ever seeing anything remotely close to a buck that size . Incredible.

From: Zbone
17-Nov-23

Zbone's Link
Link provided indicates Clinton County but no details if bow or xgun, although link has good pix:

https://theohiooutdoors.com/threads/clinton-county-giant.33665/page-2#post-960748

From: Robear
17-Nov-23
Mike Rex certainly knows his stuff and is very respected in the Ohio deer hunting and scoring world. Thanks for sharing the link.

From: drycreek
17-Nov-23
Pat, are you sure the Amish guys didn’t kill that on your farm ? Helluva buck !

From: Robear
17-Nov-23
For those who don’t know Rex is referring to the Johnny King Buck who looked like would beat Milo Hansons buck for the world record typical. The panel scoring at BC determined it was a non typ because of two points share a common base.

From: t-roy
17-Nov-23
Too bad that left side g2 will most likely be a common base point. Not much I’d like to see more, than somebody to knock Milo Hanson out of the top spot, for multiple reasons.

From: Zbone
17-Nov-23
Yeah, some saying if not for common base G2/G3 could have possibly been new world record typical...

From: deerhunter72
17-Nov-23
What a gorgeous buck! I’m sure it will cause some debate.

From: molsonarcher
17-Nov-23
Absolute beast. It will be scored as a 5x4. The g2/3 on the left is most likely going to be 1 typical and 1 non typical point if following B&C rules.

From: Shug
17-Nov-23
A common base point does not subtract from score…If it’s a true common base it’s essentially scored as two different points like the other side … The problem could possibly be that a point doesn’t originate from the top and outside edge of the main beam … that’s what stipulates a regular point

From: molsonarcher
17-Nov-23
Shug, totally true. Pics arent the best to judge it, but looking at the g2/3 in the photo, it appears to have enough mass/flaring at the bases to make the classic figure 8 for common base determination disappear part way down.

From: BOHNTR
17-Nov-23
If it has a figure 8 base AND both points originate from the top/outside edge of the beam…..it will be a typical 5x5.

From: BOHNTR
17-Nov-23
gorgeous buck!

17-Nov-23

Charlie Rehor's embedded Photo
Charlie Rehor's embedded Photo
What’s the call?

From: Sean D.
17-Nov-23
From what ive read, it has 29" of deductions so taking the split tine and the other g2 difference off the 235 gross you get a 206" net. Not sure if that is the correct way but thats what I read.

From: Sean D.
17-Nov-23

Sean D.'s embedded Photo
Sean D.'s embedded Photo
This one was also killed in Clinton Co. Supposedly both hunters know each other and both bucks were killed in same area. Not sure on how true that is though.

From: BOHNTR
17-Nov-23
“What’s the call?”

Absolutely no way to make that call based on that photo alone.

From: midwest
17-Nov-23
Incredible buck! Probably killed over bait with a crossbow. ;-)

From: Zbone
17-Nov-23
Clinton County borders Greene County where the Beatty Buck was killed....

17-Nov-23
Zbone- Most of the pictures taken that contain a trophy but no weapon, 95% of those are gun or Xbow kills. Most compound or traditional guys are proud to have their bow visible in the picture. Just my guess…

From: Zbone
17-Nov-23
Will go along with that, kinda assumed the same thing probably a xgun, but if it was killed with a vertical bow, Mel Johnson's Buck's reign may be in jeopardy...

From: Bou'bound
17-Nov-23
Is that the deliverance guy

From: Pat Lefemine
17-Nov-23
Bou, that’s funny!

17-Nov-23
No denying the buck is a stud!

From: Huntcell
17-Nov-23
I hope the call is one is a normal tine snd the other is abnormal (non-typical) point because they disallowed a Mn buck years back that would have been a top spot contender back in the day, that had similar construction, and that one’s fork wasn't as high off the main beam as this one. But depends on the boards leaning these days.

From: Shug
18-Nov-23

Shug's embedded Photo
Shug's embedded Photo
Does not appear to be a common base

From: BOHNTR
18-Nov-23
Yup.

From: goyt
18-Nov-23
It is great to see this size of buck being taken and especially in Ohio. It is nice to know that there are some out there.

18-Nov-23
No denying the buck is a stud!

From: Zbone
18-Nov-23
Younz remember the Wayne Zaft buck and then the Johnny King buck about 20 years ago and now this one's G2/G3 all look about the same configuration to me in photos... Panel judges considered one of the points abnormal common base, probably gonna happen with this buck...

Shug - You have anymore pix or info like hunter's name and/or weapon, internet seems kinda quiet about it...

18-Nov-23
Take a look at the Van Lith buck from Minnesota. Pope and Young scored both as typical points

From: Boris
19-Nov-23
Same thing with the Zaft buck, True?

From: Boris
19-Nov-23
Same thing with the Zaft buck, True?

From: Shug
19-Nov-23
Incorrect Boris… and IBC The difference is the origination of the point and weather or not the outside edge is flush with the outside edge of the main beam

From: Yttails
19-Nov-23
Killed with a crossbow.

From: Zbone
20-Nov-23
"Killed with a crossbow"

Yttails - Can you confirm that?

From: Yttails
20-Nov-23

Yttails's embedded Photo
Yttails's embedded Photo

From: Yttails
20-Nov-23

Yttails's embedded Photo
Score sheet.
Yttails's embedded Photo
Score sheet.

From: Yttails
20-Nov-23
I’m not familiar with Buckmasters, or how they determine normal points but the 3rd point on left side was measured as a normal point.

From: Zbone
20-Nov-23
Thanks for the info Yttails...

Yeah, me too don't know Buckmasters but see no inside spread, and although this one is not, see they even have a category for "High Fence"....

Would like to see Mike Rex's score sheet, as Robear said, he's a reputable scorer and officer with BBBC which uses the B&C system... In the post he quoted - "By King buck standards..it's nontyp"... Wonder how he scored the G2/G3? We know now it won't be panel judged by P&Y but will B&C panel judge it?

If killed on Nov 10th, then after drying period will be interesting to see if Mr. Alexander will have it officially B&C scored and which way will the scorer goes with the G2/G3?

BTY, isn't it ironic some xgunners think they hunt with a bow, yet when kill a big one they seem omit their xbow from the pix...8^)

From: Michael
20-Nov-23
Zbone, Inside spread is item 4. It is in the final score of 244 6/8 as well.

From: Pat Lefemine
20-Nov-23
“ BTY, isn't it ironic some xgunners think they hunt with a bow, yet when kill a big one they seem omit their xbow from the pix...8^)”

Yup. You will never see a traditional bow killed animal without the bow in the photo. Never!! Perhaps because xbows are so hideous, or they’re ashamed they didn’t kill it with a real bow. In his defense, I don’t think this guy has any understanding of taking a proper hero photo.

From: Ambush
20-Nov-23
If I couldn't be positive in the field that the G3 was a normal point, I wouldn't shoot it.

Hahaha. Just wanted to say that before Bou'bound did.

From: Zbone
20-Nov-23
Michael - Oh, I see now at bottom of sheet, 217-4/8 + 27-2/8 = 244-6/8... My bad, thanks for the correction...

From: Indiana_GSP
20-Nov-23

From: Indiana_GSP
20-Nov-23
To all the “hunters” on here that kill bucks over and around corn piles, why are they never in your pics? Asking for a friend

From: Highlife
20-Nov-23
From a friend " don't want the controversy and hysterics that come with it"

From: Pat Lefemine
20-Nov-23

Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
Pat Lefemine's embedded Photo
For the same reason I don’t have acorns in the hero pic. But if I kill one over this field tonight I’ll definitely include it in the pic, along with my bow.

From: Indiana_GSP
20-Nov-23
Or the arrow sticking out from another bad shot?

From: Bou'bound
20-Nov-23
…boom. Boom. Booom. ….. and another thread bites the dust

From: Pat Lefemine
20-Nov-23
Oh Bob, you can surely do better than that. ;-)

From: Zbone
20-Nov-23
Bou'bound - Pat has it under control...8^)))

Pat - Are you shooting feathers out of the compound or are they TAC Driver vanes? I set up a ILF recurve this year with an elevated rest and bought some some of those vanes a week or so ago to try but haven't got around to assembling them yet...

From: APauls
20-Nov-23
Why does a guy from Pennsylvania have a handle with the name Indiana, with no hero pics at all

From: sticksender
21-Nov-23
There's a town in PA called Indiana, boyhood home of Jimmy Stewart, and more recently, I'd assume.... Bob Plish.

From: Cazador
28-Nov-23
Just saw on my YouTube feed, average Joe, crossbow, not even his, borrowed it. Didn’t kill it over corn.

Another example of a guy just out there no technique, plan, and he killed a crusher. Massive!

From: Thornton
28-Nov-23
I wonder how many other guys were hunting these two bucks? If those things were in Kansas, there'd be at least half a dozen guys that would know about them and doing everything in their power to kill one.

From: Zbone
28-Nov-23
Tried to watch the podcast but couldn't get through it, was not impressed, no humility... Then after banging on B&C and the Hanson Buck, had to turn it off...

From: Bou'bound
29-Nov-23
Where is the link to the YouTube feed?

Is that something that could be shared here or would that qualify as commercializing hunting and therefore we shouldn’t propagate the practice any further?

From: Zbone
29-Nov-23

Ask and you shall receive...

From: Groundhunter
29-Nov-23
NAW has their article on line, of his story.

From: Bou'bound
29-Nov-23
Thanks for the link much appreciated

From: Zbone
29-Nov-23
I looked at the NAWT article, there are some good pix there, giving good perspective of how big the rack is...

From: Bou'bound
29-Nov-23
There is something very refreshing about someone, regardless of what weapon they carried into the woods with them, who went hunting and without any pre-existing knowledge of the animal and had a surprise encounter and took advantage of it.

Honestly you can't read an article today on any truly noteworthy big deer that does not include trail cam photos and a described knowledge of every time the animal dropped a turd or rubbed it's pre-orbital gland on a twig.

Just old school hang, hunt, and kill something that he did not "have a history with" is nice for a change. In this case not only did the hunter not know, there is no indication anyone else in the area did either and if they had they would have inundated the hunter with photos of the beast from the last four years.

01-Dec-23
This kid is gonna be disappointed, based on the numbers that the BTR scorer came up with it will net in the low 170’s typical, around 230 nontypical and gross only around 244. He shouldn’t be disappointed but he wants it to be typical and that 15 inch point on the left is probably gonna be a nontypical point

From: Bake
01-Dec-23
That looks like way more of a common base than the Zaft buck

From: Bou'bound
01-Dec-23
Really don’t see the debate. It is not even close to coming off the main beam is it?

From: Live2Hunt
01-Dec-23
So, what about the picture of him with that buck and a compound bow in the photo? Then there is a story of his bow breaking and using a buddy's xgun. We had this story on the Wisconsin site also.

From: Old Reb
02-Dec-23
^^^ I think you may have two different Ohio bucks mixed up.

From: gjs4
02-Dec-23
and there is another typical contender from Richland that hasnt made the spot light yet

From: Zbone
02-Dec-23
Town of Richland Ohio, or Richland County? They are in different areas of the state...

From: Pat Lefemine
04-Dec-23
Ohio would give Iowa some serious competition if they could ever stop baiting.

Don Higgins said that exact same thing to me during my interview. Great genetics, soil and food. Only issue is the age class takes a hit, mostly due to the prevalence of baiting and crossbows. Tons of young bucks are killed in Ohio.

From: skull
08-Dec-23

skull's Link

From: Zbone
09-Dec-23
From skull's link: "Alexander doesn’t think he’ll submit the buck to B&C for scoring. He says he’s too worried the Club will score the antlers unfavorably, because of the record-book politics surrounding a feature called a “common base.”

So if he wants it to be Ohio state's number 1 typical, the Buckeye Big Buck Club (BBBC), uses the B&C scoring system, and not the BMS... Would think it would be the BBBC scorers that would determine the common base... So wonder once they make that determination, if favorable it would be official with Ohio's BBBC records... Doubt B&C would accept that score without being panel judged by them though, but don't know....Whether BBBC has a panel judges don't know that either... I do know the Beatty buck is listed #1 in BBBC but lost a full 10" panel judged by P&Y...

If the G2/G3 score is unfavorable, as Russel Thornberry would say, it's just another "what if" buck...

From: Old Reb
09-Dec-23
Mike Rex green scored the rack and he is a BBBC guy. He should have been able to give the guy who shot it an honest opinion on how those points would probably be scored during an official measure. On a side note, Mike Rex and his sons have harvested like 50 bucks that qualify for the BBBC record book. BBBC minimum score is 140 inches typical.

From: Old Reb
09-Dec-23
In regards to what Don Higgins thinks Ohio needs to do in order to give Iowa some serious competition, Ohio needs to mirror Iowa's policy on non resident archery deer tags. Ohio's non resident deer tags should have to be drawn. Deer permit should cost $498, general hunting license $131, and a Habitat fee of $15. This might help to stop non residents from coming to Ohio on the cheap and shooting small bucks. The $15 Habitat fee could be used for securing more public hunting areas in Ohio. If it took a non resident 4 years to draw an Ohio deer tag, it would help to alleviate the issues caused by non residents leasing land and it would relieve hunting pressure on public land. What's good for Iowa is surely good for Ohio.

From: molsonarcher
09-Dec-23
Oldreb I agree. Non res should have to draw tags. Unfortunately thats not likely to ever happen. It would dramatically help the buck harvest in a very short time.

From: Buskill
09-Dec-23
I’ve never hunted OH but lots of guys from Southwest Va seem to travel there to hunt.

From: Pat Lefemine
09-Dec-23
Stopping baiting will have a much bigger impact than limiting nonresidents. That’s nothing but a resident pipe dream, and I get it.

My guess is you’d lose 20-35% of the nonresidents, and over time a few residents would give up too if baiting was prohibited. Baiting is all many of them know.

From: Bou'bound
09-Dec-23
The deer is what the deer is, which is magnificent but there’s something inherently wrong with the system that has different published realities based on interpretation and people are able to selectively shop whose opinion they want and whose opinion they don’t want

From: Zbone
09-Dec-23
Agree nonresidents should have to pay same their resident state charges their nonresidents, there is a word for that but can't think of it...

Yeah Old Reb, Mike is reputable and from the this link: https://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/editorial/cj-alexander-breaking-news-bucks2023/486780" he green scored it 206-7/8" net typical, and 235 7/8 net nontypical... Would assume that is B&C system scoring... Seems he scored the G2 favorable: "Upon close inspection and after having the CJ Alexander buck’s rack in my hands, it is my opinion this rack can be scored as a typical 6x5. I was able to find where I believe the G-2 and G-3 tines both grow from the main beam. It is also my opinion that the G-2 and G-3 on the left side have matching G-2 and G-3 tines on the right side"... Went on to say Mike will not be part of the BBBC scoring panel since he green scored it... Doesn't seem Mr. Alexander will take it to B&C though...

BTW, I looked up the Beatty Buck and it's official BBBC score is posted as #1 at 304 6/8" net typical but currently only 294" ranked #3 in P&Y net nontypical, so P&Y panel dropped it 10-6/8"... Trying to think of which buck is in between Beatty's buck and the P&Y World Record Brewster buck from IL that officially scores 327 7/8"???

From: Old Reb
09-Dec-23
Mike Rex, current Ohio Wildlife Councel President, says a ban on baiting isn't going to happen any time soon. Except maybe if there is a major spread in CWD. And I hope a major spread never happens. So, making Ohio a non resident limited draw state is the quickest way to relieve pressure on small bucks and pressure on public land resident hunters. The tag price increase will be necessary to offset the revenue loss to the ODOW from the elimination of cheap OTC tags.

From: molsonarcher
09-Dec-23
Zbone

“Reciprocity”

From: Zbone
09-Dec-23
Yep, that is it molsonarcher, thank you sir...

From: Pat Lefemine
09-Dec-23
Old Reb,

That’s unfortunate. A ton of bucks are killed due to baiting. Both by residents and nonresidents. That change alone would cut the buck kill by 40%. I’m sure of it.

I doubt the ODNR is seriously considering any changes to nonresident opportunities.

By the way. Ohio bowhunting, despite the baiting and the nonresident access is still phenomenal. Best move I ever made was to buy a farm there.

From: skull
09-Dec-23
I hunted Ohio the end October for the first time, I was in Danville small town, seeing lots deer and some nice ones, yes I have to agree if they stop baiting would be a great state for big deer

From: Robear
10-Dec-23
Another issue that gets overlooked and adds to the baiting problem is the 5 acre restriction was dropped years ago for the free landowner tags. Now what you have is folks in subdivisions competing with each other to see who can come up with the most attractive bait to lure the deer in from surrounding farm ground. The bigger landowners and their families hunt, or lease their ground out. They feel they have to bait to keep the deer on their property. It’s a mess, but the genie ain’t going back in the bottle.

From: Zbone
10-Dec-23
Don't remember a "5 acre restriction", although I know in some urban areas within city limits some city ordinances required at least 10 acres of property to legally hunt your own land, but as far as I remember whether you own 1 acre or 10,000 acres if killed on your own land landowners tags could be used... But only one buck can be tagged statewide whether it was tagged with landowner, or either-sex tag regardless of weapon type...

Aside from city/township ordinances if there was a minimum limit of landowners property to legally hunt, I don't remember it...

From: Robear
10-Dec-23
It was a statewide law that the landowner had to have 5 contiguous acres in order to qualify for free landowner deer tags. That law went away in the mid nineties because of a law suit brought against the state by a landowner that didn’t qualify for the landowner tags.

From: Zbone
10-Dec-23
Hmmm, I don't remember that...

What do you mean by landowners tags, landowners don't hand out tags, all a landowner has to do if killed on his/her own land is check the deer in the game check system, there is no need for a prior "tag" or number, you create your own tag of cardboard or what ever to attach to the carcass with date, time, and county info and the harvest report number you receive from the game check system... Easy, peasy...

From: Old Reb
10-Dec-23
I don't remember any acre restriction either regarding using a land owner tag. Now back when they were trying to establish hunting on Sundays in Ohio there was initially acreage restrictions for private land hunting. If I remember correctly if you owned at least 20 acres you could hunt on Sunday. Also if a land owner had over 100 acres and registered it for Sunday hunting they could allow others to hunt on Sunday. Land owners who owned less than 100 acres but were adjacent to other land owners who wanted to allow Sunday hunting they could combine their acreages to meet the 100 acre minimum. Sunday hunting was also allowed on public hunting lands. It was a complicated mess. Fortunately the laws were changed after this 3 year trial and Sunday hunting was leagal on all land state wide.

From: Old Reb
10-Dec-23
Pat, Yes. I also doubt that the ODNR will make any changes regarding baiting or unlimited OTC non resident deer huntIng tags. I am not advocating for baiting. I just feel that unlimited non resident deer hunting is a bigger problem. Most come to Ohio for the bucks, not to shoot does, and I'm sure some have the " I'm not going home empty handed mentality ". Especially on public land. I just think limiting non res deer hunters accomplishes the lowering of the buck kill ,it relieves public land pressure for resident hunters, and it wold reduce non resident leasing.. Yes, the deer hunting is phenomenal and I would like it to stay that way.

From: Pat Lefemine
11-Dec-23
Old Reb, there’s one non-resident in our area (me) I don’t hunt over bait, I use a real bow, and I only shoot 5+.

Every resident hunting my neighboring parcels sits bait with a crossbow and shoot every rack buck that walks in front of them.

I don’t think it’s fair to accuse nonresidents. Plenty of residents doing the very same thing.

From: Grey Ghost
11-Dec-23
What’s good for Ohio, would also be good for Kansas and any other state that allows baiting.

Matt

From: Old Reb
11-Dec-23
Pat, I guess the old cliche' " we will have to agree to disagree " comes into play here. I am a native Buckeye and will most likely always side with what I think is best for resident hunters. As far as your Ohio neighbors all using bait and crossbows, you once stated that prior to making an offer on your farm you were diligent in having conversations with the neighboring land owners. You also stated that you lucked out because two of the neighbors were hard core bowhunters who practice QDM. This was in your thread titled Ohio hunting license question from 25- Feb-20. The statement was made in a response to btb on26-Feb-20. Did those neighbors change away from QDM? Anyhow, I don't want to be argumentive about this and good luck with your Ohio hunting. Oldreb

From: Zbone
11-Dec-23
Wouldn't be so harsh, he!! I'm an Ohio native and been fighting against xguns in bowseason since the 1980's, but hasn't done any good, they even invaded and conquered the state bowhunting org, so he is not the only one that sees this problem...

Maybe Pat is now experiencing what I and probably many bowhunters that live near amish have known, you can't trust them and I'd never turn my back on one... We're dumb Engli to them... I've ranted this before... Around my properties, they try to kill every deer, "If it's brown, it's down"... Don't believe they have much thoughts on conservation, that's why they don't have any deer on their properties because they killed them all, and then invade other properties displacing locals through cancerous leases then after they ruin one lease property, they'll move on to another and do the same and so on... I might be painting them with a broad brush, but I wouldn't want them as neighbors, at least Pat has enough acreage to keep and hold a sanctuary some bucks might be able to survive to maturity... In my area's a buck is really lucky to make to his 4th year...

From: Zbone
11-Dec-23

Zbone's embedded Photo
Zbone's embedded Photo

Zbone's Link
Here is the other 200"+ typical whopper that has been talked about in Ohio circles... Unfortunately another xgun kill also... They're still being pretty secretive about divulging the county, only stating hunter is from North Central Ohio... Photo I screenshot from the youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPDhzrPP9LI

This quote may be a misprint in the following article: "A five-judge panel of scorers from the Ohio DNR Big Buck Club, who are also Boone & Crockett scorers, will be scoring Thomas’s buck on December 30, 2023"...

I assume they are speaking of the Buckeye Big Buck Club (BBBC) but can't find a public scoring event for neither the ODNR nor BBBC on that date, can only assume it's being done in private:

https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/whitetail-deer/ohio-hunter-kills-one-of-worlds-biggest-whitetails

They're stating it may be possible new B&C #3 typical but when I look at the rack, kinda looks like there might be a common base discussion on the left side rack also???

Another issue I have with xguns are these monster bucks being killed by them, for some reason in my mind it degrades such magnificent animals and I understand it shouldn't, and would so much rather seeing them arrowed or even blasted with a gun for that matter... Even roadkilled would gain more respect... I know, I know, it shouldn't...

From: Bou'bound
11-Dec-23
That guy played it right for sure

From: Robear
23-Dec-23
There are some concerning comments that have just popped up on CJ Alexander’s instagram account about his deer being taken illegally, and him being arrested for it. If true, it won’t take long to come out officially.

24-Dec-23
Going around very quickly that the DNR has confiscated this buck. Womp womp… If so, they need to throw the book at him. I can only imagine hunting this buck the right way and it getting poached out from under you…

24-Dec-23
Allegedly there was a trail camera photo taken of the buck 22 miles away from where the poacher said he killed it the day before he killed it. Likely took DNR a while to authenticate the photo and get their T’s crossed and I’s dotted for the investigation.

There’s a pile of comments on the poacher’s Instagram that are nearly a day old. They haven’t been replied to or deleted, leading folks to believe he’s in the clink. If it’s true, I hope he stays there a long long time.

From: JohnMC
24-Dec-23
I have read some of same comments. No evidence they are anything other than rumors yet. Let hope that is all they are. If the deer has been taken by ODNR and rumors are true, I'll be on the tar and feather him band wagon, but until something official comes out will reserve judgement.

From: Robear
24-Dec-23
It is a fact. The state has the deer for sure, and it sounds like there is quite a story coming with the details of the illegal killing.

From: JohnMC
24-Dec-23
Got any thing to prove a fact? I've only seen people saying it on social media/web.

From: Venom16730
24-Dec-23
Only time will tell ! But it’s amazing what big deer have done to people

From: Robear
24-Dec-23
I’m definitely not relying on social media or the web for my info.

From: Tracker
24-Dec-23
If this was an illegal kill he must be one of the dumbest guys out there not to expect scrutiny over his kill.

From: Zbone
24-Dec-23

Zbone's embedded Photo
Zbone's embedded Photo
Not going to speculate neither, but if true, a shame... Will say though, if you kill a world class whitetail in Ohio, better have crossed your T’s and dotted your I’s because ODNR are WELL KNOWN for confiscating big bucks with heavy fines as these two attached... The top one hangs (or used too) at their Portage Lakes office, it was Ohio's nontypical state record at the time (until removed) and #6 B&C... Had it been poached with today's restitution fees, the guy likely would have been required to pay penalties of around $43,000... It's now listed in B&C as a pickup... The bottom one the kid was fined and required to pay restitution for a total of $28,741.46... Don't mess with ODNR, I think they have the walleye tournament lead weights dude's Ranger boat too worth boo-coo bucks (pun intended...8^)))

From: RK
24-Dec-23
LMAO ZBONE

24-Dec-23
He should have taken the $20,000 that he was offered so he could pay the fine

From: BC173
26-Dec-23
1 last little comment about this Cj Alexander Buck.. I know everyone will be waiting for a big court case and investigation.. like I said yesterday the case is CLOSED!! CJ confessed in front of 6 wardens and was ticketed… While that was happening 2 went to Keith Sniders and confiscated the Rack and gave Keith a receipt for the Rack. While 2 more went and talked with the Buddy that borrowed him the Crossbow.. If you’re out looking to Poach a Buck don’t do it on or near The DA’s property!! Especially when he is after it!!

I seen this post but not sure whether it’s based in fact or not. Who really knows about this stuff anymore.

26-Dec-23
I still think the point off the left G2 is an abnormal point. Will we ever know?? I doubt it unless it’s eventually panel measured by B&C. State of Ohio likely has some B&C Measurers.

From: csalem
26-Dec-23
Yes we will Charlie. Be patient

From: skull
26-Dec-23
Are you kidding me, that’s just ridiculous that has been poached,

26-Dec-23
Tar and feather!

From: Zbone
26-Dec-23
Charlie, seems what the ODNR did with the Hochstetler Buck above was had it removed from BBBC, the state records book organization, but is still listed in B&C as a pickup... So maybe/hopefully they'll have it scored by B&C system to determine restitution penalties to resolve the court case...

If it was actually killed on November 9th or 10th, sixty days later brings it to January 9th, so hopefully we're soon learn the true score... The buck grew the bone that deserves recognition, not the shooter...

From: Robear
26-Dec-23
If the state decides to go for restitution for this deer, using the 235 7/8 gross that Rex came up with and crunching the numbers of the formula the ODNR uses, he is looking at right about 31K.

From: gjs4
26-Dec-23
There are a few comments in here on Ohio nonresidents that crack me up with the short sightedness.

I am a non-resident Ohio landowner, in case you hadn't guess. Hunted permission and public there for 15 years. Id suspect 90% of OOS either hunt public, lease or got to an outfitter. This means they're not directly your deer quality problem.

Ohioans can be spoil brats with how good they have it. Most "archery kills" are by cross bow....that tells you a ton about who is doing what. It is TexasNE with corn piles, cell cams, crossbows and blinds on senderos through the invasives on the hillside. Why? The hunters have shown theyre lazy, will spend more money to do less effort but have the same result.

What happens when OOS are a draw or have a massive premium to pay? Outfitters take over. Look at Iowa- if you think you cant get permission or find a cheap lease now you'll be 10xs a broke and handcuffed with that draw or high cost change.

Baiting is the lowest hole in the bucket. 80%+ of hunters on another forum wanted bait changes. Again it is for the lazy and become part of the culture. Spend 8$ a bag, pour on the ground. Everyone does it and proclaims everyone has to. I have neighbor baiting on less than 2ac next to my 75 with plots, trees and conservation benefits far beyond a trigger pull on a deer. He claims he cant afford more....then get working more and hunting less. Corn is toxic to deer in quantity during winter. Again, if hunters needed woodsmansip and effort, Ohio would be number 1. Right now we are hearing about the giants (to which there was a third 200" typical, and the second was from Richland county) or Columbus burb's mega bucks.....but some portions of Ohio already suck. Some of the outfitters need to be chastised for killing 2yos non stop. Blame the out of town addict, or come to terms with your dealer is a local that's raping the land. Your local realtors arent shy with selling 5 ac lots and mentioning "wildlife" or "hunting" Id bet your bait pile that those areas have a culture that blames others as well...... if you cant behave when you're drunk, don't drink....If you cant control your behavior in the woods, own it don't blame out of state folks.

People in every state have complaints. The grass is always greener. I cant wait to live in Ohio with the other brats.

From: Bou'bound
26-Dec-23
Can you elaborate on your points in the last post.

From: Ksgobbler
26-Dec-23
https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/cj-alexander-buck-poaching-investigation/

From: Highlife
26-Dec-23

From: JohnMC
26-Dec-23

JohnMC's embedded Photo
JohnMC's embedded Photo
Here is a picture the guy shared of himself on Instagram. Who post something like this of themselves and not as a joke?

From: Zbone
27-Dec-23
I just spit my drink... John nice picture of the dude, toooo freakn funny...8^)))

As said above, I was not impressed with the dude's humility on the podcast... He thinks he's all that and a bag of Doritos...

Thanks for the link Ksgobbler, if convicted gonna cost the dude big time, hadn't realized the ODNR used gross score to pay restitution fees as Robear said of possibly 31K...

On another website said he already sold the rack for 30 grand and the ODNR seized it from him and gave him a receipt... If that is true how many other laws were broken from both parties selling and receiving a poached animal? Can only assume that could be another can of worms...

From: gjs4
27-Dec-23
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBdkYEPVnA8 https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EYpx5ZNWwCg

From: Shug
27-Dec-23

Shug's embedded Photo
Shug's embedded Photo
Damm crossbow guys

27-Dec-23
Just read the Outdoor Life post. 1.) Don’t mess with the DNR, especially Ohio. 2.) Criminals most always get caught. 3.) The fine won’t be harsh enough.

When it all shakes out, it sure will be interesting to hear how they actually nail this fool.

Too bad for the deer and anyone else who was chasing him legally.

From: JohnMC
27-Dec-23
As far as punishment goes the public humiliation got to be worse than anything the state can do to him.

After all the interviews, articles, podcast. He is going to the laughing stock anywhere he goes for a long time.

From: t-roy
27-Dec-23
There’s another unsubstantiated rumor that this guy also attended Blowmars Firefighting, Bodybuilding and Poaching Academy (BFBPA) last summer, too….

Amazing that these geniuses think they’re going to get away this stuff, especially when they plaster everything out there on social media.

From: SteveB
27-Dec-23
Sick. The fine wouldn't be enough even if doubled.

From: Robear
27-Dec-23
I have a contact who is heavily involved in the investigation. He cannot divulge much info at this point, only to say all the rumors going around are true. Geeesh.

From: Catscratch
27-Dec-23
After he posted pics of himself in his underwear in a weight room, do you really think public humiliation goes far with him?

From: bigswivle
27-Dec-23
Make him spend two weeks in prison in his gym outfit

From: Lee
27-Dec-23
I was thinking the same thing Catscratch!! Bigswivle for the win!!!

From: Grey Ghost
27-Dec-23
Per the OutdoorLife article:

"Some hunting forum posters have pointed out that Alexander says he recovered his buck during the daytime, however all the published photos of the deer were taken at night. Alexander told OL that he and friend Cory Haunert had waited for Haunert’s girlfriend to get off of work before taking pictures, since she had a quality camera. "

Umm...sure. In this day and age when every cell phone has the equivalent of very expensive cameras 20 years ago, these guys waited for a girlfriend with a quality camera. Right. Poachers are stupid.

Matt

From: Bou'bound
27-Dec-23
I don’t think the DNR is going to deduct for the common base when they measure it to calculate the restitution. They must abide by the “nets are for fish” mindset.

From: RK
27-Dec-23
I agree Matt, poachers that want fame and/or fortune are incredibly stupid. However poachers that poach for food or other purely selfish reason are very Smart. The tools they have at their disposal these days are scary.

Hope they throw the book at this fool but like a lot of wildlife crimes I don't expect to much of a lasting punishment

27-Dec-23
Whats the word? I haven't heard anything?

Going back to the baiting..... My resident neighbor with 2 acres baits. Shot a buck this year (and his right to) that probably measured under 20", no lie. I guess I'd rather him shoot that, then some stud I would have liked....

From: Thornton
27-Dec-23

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
I called it the second I read the story! Dude looks like a poacher, and several things did not add up, including his facial expression.

From: Bowboy
27-Dec-23

Bowboy's Link
Here’s NA Whitetail article.

From: Nick Muche
27-Dec-23
I watched the podcast last night, what a clown. You could tell the hosts kind of thought something was up.

From: Lee
27-Dec-23

Lee's Link
From Ohio DNR.

From: scentman
27-Dec-23
At least no droopy ears ;0)

27-Dec-23
Just read the Outdoor Life post. 1.) Don’t mess with the DNR, especially Ohio. 2.) Criminals most always get caught. 3.) The fine won’t be harsh enough.

When it all shakes out, it sure will be interesting to hear how they actually nail this fool.

Too bad for the deer and anyone else who was chasing him legally.

From: Shug
27-Dec-23

Shug's embedded Photo
Shug's embedded Photo
Should have know right away when he said this…

From: t-roy
27-Dec-23
I saw that too, shug.

From: scentman
27-Dec-23
Link please.

From: Shug
27-Dec-23
This putz has 4 kids already? At his age..pfft

Scrntman… HNTR podcast

From: Zbone
27-Dec-23
scentman - The podcast links are posted above... I couldn't get through the whole thing, I had to turn it off especially when they started bashing the B&C scoring system...

From: Bou'bound
27-Dec-23
Where is the podcast link to where the his5 apologized in the last day or two. Anyone have it.

From: Zbone
27-Dec-23
"his5"... Huh?

From: Tracker
27-Dec-23
Dum and dummer. Pretty confident his name will not be in the record books. And unfortunately not much penalty for trespassing/hunting without permission. Kind of a shame that this truly magnificent buck will be associated with a poaching event.

From: Quinn @work
27-Dec-23
I tried, but couldn't make it 5 minutes through that podcast. What a fraud.

Can't believe those tools haven't pulled that podcast off their website yet.

27-Dec-23
Bou, I’m assuming he’s in jail (hopefully) or his phone has been seized by DNR. Instagram comments bashing him for being a poaching loser have been up on his Instagram from 6 days now without being deleted by him - which is something you’d suspect someone to do after 170+ comments.

No new posts or anything since the news broke. Hopefully he got stale bread and water from the county deputies for Christmas.

From: TonyBear
27-Dec-23
Apparently it was stuffed with lead weights and steaks from another deer...

From: Robear
27-Dec-23
As Zbone and many others have pointed out, Ohio does not play when it comes to these high profile cases. He will at the very least, owe restitution for the deer which in Ohio goes like this for any deer scoring 125 or more. Gross score minus 100. That number squared (times itself). That number times 1.65$ per inch. And I believe, they also will owe the base minimum of 500$. So that puts the amount at about 31,000$. I imagine a few more dollars tacked on here and there. So under normal circumstances I would agree with Tracker on the penalty for hunting without permission, usually 275$ fine and confiscation of the deer, that goes out the window in these big cases. You are made an example of, so to speak.

From: Shug
27-Dec-23
Of everything… I’m most disappointed at how much lower BOHNTR will think of all WT deer hunters

27-Dec-23
Shug, I think you’re right. We were just starting to make some progress and here we take two steps backwards.

From: RK
27-Dec-23
So Robear is hunting without permission a state jail felony? Evidently not. If not what would he be in jail for. In Texas killing a deer without landowner consent is a state jail felony, not sure on Ohio Maybe you could put some clarity on where you think this scum bag is right now.

From: Shug
27-Dec-23

Shug's embedded Photo
Shug's embedded Photo
I called this from the beginning way back in Mid November… just saying.

That being said it’s lightning to watch this podcast in hindsight…

From: Robear
27-Dec-23
I don’t believe I have ever heard of anyone being jailed in Ohio for hunting without permission. I have not heard anything that would indicate that he is in jail other than him being silent on social media. Of course if he was, as has been reported, hunting on the DA’s property and the DA was hunting the same deer……….

From: Cazador
27-Dec-23
He was fine, but he was banging the DAs wife and she, the DA, wasn't happy about it. I guess he flipped her to the home team and she is now a trump supporter. Sadly, she dumped him as he didn’t have a “ full length” shaft, and that’s when it all went south.

From: Shug
27-Dec-23

Shug's embedded Photo
Shug's embedded Photo
And there ya have it

27-Dec-23
His buddy on that podcast agrees 100%

From: Recurve Man
27-Dec-23
I would venture to say that the majority of monsters killed have a story to them that aren’t always legit. Especially when it’s just some random hunter with out a bunch of good deer under their belt. To randomly kill one is fluke usually. I’m talking shooting deer over 170s. Monster deer make glory grabbing idiots due idiotic things. This is one good example of trail cam’s playing a positive role in hunting. Caught one of the many idiots out there poaching.

I’ve been hunting big bucks for years and they just don’t fall off the face of the earth. Someone usually takes them and can’t brag about it cause of the illegal method or where it was killed at they weren’t supposed to be there. I had this very thing happen about 6 years ago on a buck that grossed 196”. The buck I was after was in my home state of IL and turned up its was killed in MO. So the shooter said. Long story short I got the Warden involved and he honestly told me it was gonna be way more work than it was worth. Because the guy actually had bought an IL nonresident tag. He hunted about 2 mile from where I hunted in IL. Needless to say I have a real crappy taste in my mouth about my local game warden. Whata ya do.

Shane

From: Dale06
27-Dec-23
Lots of guys, probably more than you think don’t care a bit about bragging on a big buck they’ve killed. I know a guy ( not me) that has killed three over 190”, one being 214 non typical. He killed those in the 1990s. Less than 10 people have seen the mounts. There’s lots of big deer killed every year and they’re not shared with the public.

From: Zbone
27-Dec-23
Shug - "This putz has 4 kids already? At his age..pfft"

Didn't you see his gym picture, that dude is a stud...8^)))

From: Shug
27-Dec-23
“Didn't you see his gym picture, that dude is a stud...8^)))“

ZB Appears you’ve never seen me.. I’m 57 a stud and still working on my second child (son is 24)

I guess my point is the kid doesn’t put thought into a life plan….

Easy… marry a wonderful woman who also makes a respectable living and don’t have kids till you’re semi- set in career.. really about that simple

From: Zbone
27-Dec-23
57 and making another baby, WOW, gonna be a hell of a generation gap...8^) Good luck...8^)

I'm a grandfather of 6 and my stud days are over...8^) Seeing my 16-year old granddaughter with her first boyfriend on Christmas day give me that uneasy feeling of I could be great-grandfather in a few years,,, I sure hope it'll be a few years...8^(((

That Alexander kid is going to go through some shIt with fines, penalties, lawyer fees, possible jail time, the humiliations, etc, but I don't feel sorry for him but I DO feel sorry for his family... It's gonna be hard on a marriage, but after seeing the gym picture posted on social media, I would think he's likely already out there shopping... I know a similar situation, not my family but friends with a 13 year marriage on the rocks and they have a 12-year old kid and the husband is a total azzhole and he's now working out at a gym and lifting weights then posting his body on social media with status of "separated" yet lives with his wife and kid in the same house... It's a mess... I hate the holidays and a reason I live a half hour away so I don't have to hear or deal with all the drama... I'll say no more, sorry to get off track...

From: scentman
27-Dec-23
Oh, ok Slug... scrntman 0;)

From: Thornton
27-Dec-23
I never watched the podcast, nor will I probably ever. I grew up in an area where guys did whatever it took to get a buck this big one the ground, then concoct a story later, with enough twists and turns it doesn't seem made up. There's a couple of them that visit this site, like weirdo lurkers, afraid to post anything. I'd bet about anything there is a lot more to this story than the bone the Ohio DNR got thrown.

From: Nick Muche
28-Dec-23
Watching the podcast after knowing he’s a liar is one of the best things you could do. Damn is it enlightening…. Knowing everything he says is basically a lie. This kid couldn’t hunt himself out of a wet paper bag.

From: Venom16730
28-Dec-23
I wont bash the kid it's not my style. he will pay in a way that will haunt him for years' PUBLIC HUMILIATION' .

I hope when this is over some of the people that had his sheds, hunted this deer, had history with him , can give us some history on this deer, think the deer deserves that.

From: RonP
28-Dec-23
i think of the thread 'awash in complacency' when i read this.

28-Dec-23
The honest to god head scratching thought is…

How in the hell would you even remotely think you could get away with this?

Taking into consideration the amount of social media pressure, and in all likelihood the other hunters that may have known about this buck?

You literally have to have all your ducks in a row if this caliber of an animal is taken.

No messing around and every word, photo precise.

Seems to be a great example of what not to do.

Obviously there must have been no mentors or values taught.

From: Brotsky
28-Dec-23
More comedy gold from the influencer crowd.

From: Bowboy
28-Dec-23
The guy from MT that killed the largest elk Mr. Stephen Felix did it right. He kept quiet and never said a peep and had it stored at the RMEF HQ for the 60 day drying period in a boxed crate. Only a couple people knew about it. IMo he set the standard on how to deal with killing a large trophy animal.

From: Groundhunter
28-Dec-23
Yes, but Mr. Felix killed it, legally.

From: Bowboy
28-Dec-23
Groundhunter agree with your post. I should of stated if you legally kill something follow Mr. Felix standards :)

From: Patdel
28-Dec-23
Idk...the only facts i can find so far is that he is under investigation for not having written permission. Not exactly a verified axe murderer. Maybe the public execution is a little bit rushed.

Cant give him a pass on the underwear selfie tho. Wtf kid?

From: Groundhunter
28-Dec-23
He says recovery is in the am? Why are all his pics with friends, in the dark? I hope it is as he says.

From: Lee
28-Dec-23
The written permission about has to be to just get the ball rolling. If he really did kill it on his sisters place with verbal permission that would be ridiculously petty to charge him with that and confiscate the rack.

From: JohnMC
28-Dec-23
He said on podcast he had written permission at his sister in laws place. Does anyone know if in Ohio hunting without written permission is the same as trespassing or does it simply mean you had permission but it was not in writing? Also on podcast he said waited for friends with a good camera to get off work to take pictures. Personally l would take day time cell phone pictures over my "good camera" and night time pictures.

From: Grey Ghost
28-Dec-23
The rumors I've heard is the buck was caught on trail camera pics, the day before it was killed, 15-20 miles away from the property CJ claimed he shot it on. It's also rumored that the trail cam pics came from the property owned by the District Attorney, who was actively hunting the buck. The speculation is CJ trespassed on the DA's property, poached the deer, waited for night fall to recover and take pics of it, then he claimed he shot it on his sister's property.

All we really know is CJ is being investigated for hunting on private property without written permission, and the antlers, cape, and weapon have been confiscated by the wildlife officers.

Matt

From: Zbone
28-Dec-23
John - Because Ohio landowners are often reluctant to give permission in writing because liable legalities, most or many LEO are lenient if you don't have a written slip on your person... Think of this - what if you are on your own property, most likely the officer isn't going to know... The "written" clause is used to assist complaints from landowners to pursue those on their property without permission to prosecute criminality, which sounds like what is happening here...

Surprisingly a couple things nobody here is questioning anything about him selling the rack if whether that was true or not... Aside from Groundhunter asking what about what they said (him and buddy) recovered the deer the following day yet field photos are at night... Is buddy an accomplice?

From: Zbone
28-Dec-23

Zbone's Link
Story has gone national:

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2023/12/ohio-hunter-whitetail-deer-poaching-investigation

Article reports: "might have been harvested illegally at night"

ODNR is gonna luv the publicity, first the walleye cheaters and now this high profile poaching...

From: Patdel
28-Dec-23
Grey ghost...exactly. lots of rumors and speculation at this point. Under investigation for is a lot different than guilty of.

I hope it all comes out in the wash and the guy gets the deer back. Just a better outcome for everybody who hunts if its legit.

Also maybe its just my pea sized libertarian brain, but it bothers me that the state can just seize anything for an investigation. I dont think they should be able to confiscate a soggy kleenex without some kind of definitive proof. But thats just me.

28-Dec-23
if this kid did anything illegal...i hope he is prosecuted appropriately.

however...innocent until proven guilty applies to average joe hunters as much as it applies to former presidents...and we all know how "rumor has its"..."reports are" and "from what ive heards" have all worked out in the past.

i would hope everyone is afforded that same presumption.

From: be still
28-Dec-23
Could be the DA bought the deer illegally out of a high fence and turned him loose when he was younger hoping himself could be the one that shoots a record deer. Sometimes you wonder if the real truth ever comes out to light.

28-Dec-23
it could also be that the da actually did have him on cam...took ownership of him like so many do...and just got pissed when some lazy "xgun" hunter lucked into his "hit list" buck...and shot his buck on some scrub 30 acre parcel that he doesnt even own. maybe even used bait!! :)

who knows what the truth is...i certainly dont.

From: Grey Ghost
28-Dec-23
Patdel, I believe it's called "asset forfeiture". It allows law enforcement officers to seize property before the government convicts a person of a crime. It happens all the time, especially in drug related cases.

Matt

From: Indiana_GSP
28-Dec-23
Does anyone think that ODNR just decided on a whim to show up and take everything? Take the tinfoil hat off…

From: Zbone
28-Dec-23
"Does anyone think that ODNR just decided on a whim to show up and take everything?"

Nope, NO WAY...

From: Grey Ghost
28-Dec-23
I suspect the ODNR has a solid case of poaching against this guy, and they are just being tight lipped for now, rightfully so. Obviously time will tell.

From: Thornton
28-Dec-23
Didn't this kid have a relative or buddy that also shot a 200 incher around the same time?

28-Dec-23
Ricky-the truth is that his sister’s property, where he said he can hunt, is only 8 acres and the kid has already stated that he wasn’t using bait. I’m glad we got that straight. I think he’s been saying that it’s 30 acres to make it a little more believable story. He should’ve just said he was using bait on the 8 acres and that would be more plausible

From: Patdel
28-Dec-23
Grey ghost, absolutley it does. It has a bit of a stink to it no matter the circumstances. Just my opinion. I have a feeling your instincts are gonna be proven right on this one. Lots of smoke for no fire.

On the other hand, wouldnt be the first time a DNR officer got a little overzealous.

Ive seen disputes over permission result in furious people. Just completely fly off the handle. Throw a giant deer in the mix, all bets are off. I guess for now im willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

From: Bou'bound
28-Dec-23
Safe to say his focus is no longer on the common base tine and getting a blind measurer to make a call in his favor on that matter.

28-Dec-23
Once he realizes how the fine is calculated he will want that 15”point scored as a deduction and just go with that low 170’s net typical by the evil Boone and Crockett club

From: Coop
28-Dec-23
https://wvrecord.com/stories/639370343-man-sues-two-dnr-officers-who-accused-him-of-poaching-two-trophy-deer-seized-the-antlers

I have no clue if this dude is guilty or not! But I do know sometimes things aren't as black and white as DNR says. I hope this is NOT the case and if guilty I hope they bring the full force of the judicial system against him.

28-Dec-23
The honest to god head scratching thought is…

How in the hell would you even remotely think you could get away with this?

Taking into consideration the amount of social media pressure, and in all likelihood the other hunters that may have known about this buck?

You literally have to have all your ducks in a row if this caliber of an animal is taken.

No messing around and every word, photo precise.

Seems to be a great example of what not to do.

Obviously there must have been no mentors or values taught.

29-Dec-23
"Ricky-the truth is that his sister’s property, where he said he can hunt, is only 8 acres and the kid has already stated that he wasn’t using bait. I’m glad we got that straight. I think he’s been saying that it’s 30 acres to make it a little more believable story. He should’ve just said he was using bait on the 8 acres and that would be more plausible"

i was being facetious in my last post...hence the smiley face.

look...i have no idea what transpired here...as i said before "if this kid did anything illegal...i hope he is prosecuted appropriately."

i just think its important to let the process play out...and part of that process is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

if we have learned anything over the last few years it is that very little of what we read in the media...especially social media...is accurate.

From: molsonarcher
29-Dec-23
@iowa booner hunter:

It wont matter how that point gets scored. Restitution is based on total gross score, no deductions.

From: scentman
29-Dec-23
Innocent till proven guilty... interesting to see how this pans out.

From: Venom16730
29-Dec-23
Im on a few Ohio Facebook hunting pages , and what really gets me is how many people are ok with poaching and trespassing .

From: Catscratch
29-Dec-23
"and what really gets me is how many people are ok with poaching and trespassing ."

I'm on some Morel groups (mushroom hunting) and like you said, it's surprising how many are ok with trespassing and poaching. Kind of a chip on their shoulders actually. Like it's about someone having something they don't.

From: CAS_HNTR
29-Dec-23
I have been in CO for the last week with family, so basically under a rock, a lot has happened since I last read this.

Pretty sad if true, but I unfortunately would not doubt that all the rumors are accurate.

From: KHNC
29-Dec-23
JohnMC, first thing i thought when i saw the underwear selfie was that you had photoshopped Cj's face on josh blowmars body. I thought that shit was hilarious. Even more so when realized it was real pic and that he is a blowmar quiver sniffer.

From: Bou'bound
29-Dec-23
There are morel mushroom hunting sites? That’s more amazing than 200” deer

29-Dec-23
KHNC…

“he is a blowmar quiver sniffer”

Spit up my coffee!! Hilarious

From: Highlife
29-Dec-23

From: Jebediah
29-Dec-23
As a member in good standing of the Spoon and Crockpot club, none of my deer have ever been the subject of any scrutiny. But I’m a big fan of the idea that the truth prevails. I think if a monster gets shot on the up-and-up, the guy has nothing to worry about in terms of rumors and innuendo. Just squawking from the peanut gallery. On the other hand, if the truth is a little darker, then yeah, sometimes rumors are true.

From: bigswivle
29-Dec-23
There are morel mushroom hunting sites? That’s more amazing than 200” deer

Lmao!!! Was thinking the same thing

From: goyt
29-Dec-23
I have a bigger problem with trespassers for morel mushrooms than deer hunters. Mushroom hunting is a big thing here in Ohio.

From: Zbone
29-Dec-23
"Mushroom hunting is a big thing here in Ohio"

Yeah, the amish come by van loads with garbage bags and rakes... Once they find one they rake all around leaving nothing behind...

Actually there are a few Morel mushroom hunting sites and apps, they help determine when they pop in areas...

From: t-roy
29-Dec-23
^^^^ Agree with Goyt. Every year I get the “we’re JUST mushroom hunting” line. The ginseng hunters are almost as bad.

From: Bou'bound
29-Dec-23
Do fiddleheads get the same love as the ‘shrooms

30-Dec-23
unfortunately...in situations like these...regardless of the outcome of any investigation...once the speculation runs its course on social media...the hunter will forever be tainted.

im not saying hes guilty or innocent...im just saying by the time it is decided it wont really matter. ask kyle rittenhouse.

From: Tjm1534
30-Dec-23
Dumbass.

From: Cazador
22-Jan-24
The guy is sticking to his guns. If he’s lying, dude needs to go to Vegas and play poker. Sounds like the ODNR was playing a bluff game as well. Hopefully it’s legit. Lawyer be damned he just unloaded for two hours.

The WT world is full of a-holes that’s for sure.

22-Jan-24

i just listened to that podcast last night. if hes a liar...hes a damn good one...or hes a psychopath.

From: Boreal
22-Jan-24
I agree. I saw some of it last night and he seems very genuine.

From: Zbone
22-Jan-24
I tried to get though the podcast but the kid is so arrogant I have a hard time listening to him, so I kinda just kept forwarding through in spots and near the end he brings up the Murdaugh murders and OJ, I'm like wtf... If I had to make a ball call, I call psychopath...

Heard the stick part but would like to know if the DOW found the kill site on the trespass land and have the blood DNA tested, if so it's a slam dunk...

From: Bou'bound
22-Jan-24
If he’s telling the truth why not be so confident it comes off as arrogance. He has family connections in law enforcement (including father) so he has some insight into process and what is and is not appropriate and clearly does not appear to be intimidated by the process. Is that an ignorance is bliss effect or is it an informed air that indicates I know what happened and I know my rights and I know how this will play out based on what I know vs what others don't know.

Time will tell.

From: Lawboytom
25-Jan-24
I watched parts of the latest pod cast. Words are just words, I didn’t see anything that said he took it the way he did or the way the DNR is investigating it. I’ve had enough ex girlfriends to realize that people can be pretty convincing liars to cover their butt.

I've shot a few nice deer. After the woods settle down after the shot, the first thing I do is text or call my brother and then text a few hunting buddies. Then when I find the deer, I’m taking pictures with my phone within minutes of finding the deer. Part of it is for my enjoyment and to share with the people that matter to me but the other part is if there were ever a question, the pics and texts have time and date stamps that can back up my recollection of events. I have an extremely hard time believing that this guy wasn’t snapping pics and sending texts to everyone he knew when he found that deer. He’s been all about the attention from the start. A pic of the deer at the recovery site at the time of recovery would be pretty good evidence to support where he shot it.

I don’t get why he even did the latest pod cast. Anything he says can be used against him at this point.

From: Pat Lefemine
25-Jan-24
I didn’t listen to the podcast. Did they ask him if he had taken a pic when he found the deer? Agree, No way he didn’t, imo.

Both iPhones and Droids attach location metadata to every pic by default. I doubt this guy disabled that functionality. Simple and bulletproof way to prove your innocence.

If he refused, then you have your answer.

From: JB
25-Jan-24
Agree 100%. I take pictures when I shoot a doe and send it to friends and family. Can't imagine shooting that buck and NOT taking pics right away.

From: Grey Ghost
25-Jan-24
I actually disable the location metadata on my phone. I thought that was common practice, especially with outdoorsman who don't want to disclose the locations of their honey holes.

Matt

From: Jimmyjumpup
25-Jan-24
Baiting is not allowed where I hunt. And big bucks won't come in to bait in our state anyway during daylight hours.

From: Korey Wolfe
26-Jan-24
Sounds like the DNR really doesn't have much evidence. Certainly not enough for a conviction...maybe enough to charge him, but we will see.

From: Zbone
26-Jan-24
If the kid is threatening to sue for conflict of interest (for whatever reason with officers) and they have blood evidence and/or phone record evidence at the trespass location, they are just getting their ducks in a row before filing charges... Would imagine they are probably really pizzed now after this latest podcast, they won't want egg on their face... Why the kid would go public again in a podcast is insane to me why I call psychopath...

We oughta start a pool, charged or not charged, I'm guessing charged... Whether innocent or guilty, yet to be determined, but a court will decide... Just my $.02...8^)

26-Jan-24
"Why the kid would go public again in a podcast is insane to me why I call psychopath..."

either that or hes innocent. i guess well soon find out.

From: Bou'bound
26-Jan-24
Yes let’s start a pool. A group of people who know nothing but what they see on internet determine and judging something and someone they know nothing about. Could be fun.

From: Zbone
26-Jan-24

Zbone's Link
"Wildlife Officers Investigating Alleged Ohio Deer Poaching Case"

https://ohiodnr.gov/discover-and-learn/safety-conservation/about-ODNR/news/deer-poaching-case

26-Jan-24
Not surprised at all that he would go even more public. We live in an age of everyone only caring about Instagram followers and attention - good or bad. Imagine the notoriety, followers, and name recognition he’s getting from this. If he’s going down he might as well go down with 10,000 new people who can’t wait to see his next post. No matter what evidence they have, there’ll always be folks who claim he was innocent and got robbed of the record and the debate will continue forever.

26-Jan-24
Zbone the link says they confiscated the hunting equipment, antlers and cape. I’m surprised they can do that before a sentence has been passed. I used to think we are all innocent until proven guilty. Sounds like he’s guilty until proven innocent by the odnr. I’m surprised the law works this way.

From: Zbone
26-Jan-24
Wv hillbilly - Wouldn't know but think I read somewhere, maybe above that items can be held for evidence... Think of like a drug bust, but don't quote me on that, don't know the judicial system that well..

26-Jan-24
If they plan on charging him…The deer and hunting equipment would be evidence. The state will preserve the evidence for trail. They would have been seized lawfully. If he was legal the.n the state will return them. It’s common practice and does follow 4th amendment doctrine.

26-Jan-24
Thanks for the clarification. Just struck me odd that the state/ government can take your belongings before your convicted for a crime. I don’t care either way, if this guy did it right or wrong I hope he gets all he deserves.

From: Bou'bound
29-Jan-24
Of course they can take your property before you are convicted

They can take your freedom before you are convicted too ……….people go to jail all the time and await trial from prison based on the severity of the charges and / or their ability to post bond to await a conviction or an acquittal decision outside of confinement.

From: Zbone
22-Feb-24

Zbone's Link
Ran across more info:

"Turns out, however, the deer had been known for a number of years in Wilmington and often frequented a cemetery, a resident of the area related during a phone call"

"Court to rule whether potentially record-setting Ohio deer antlers were taken illegally"

https://www.dispatch.com/story/sports/outdoors/2024/01/07/court-to-decide-if-famed-ohio-deers-antlers-were-taken-legally-hunting/72111564007/

From: Bou'bound
22-Feb-24
Yes, thanks that’s a new information

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