Contributors to this thread:
LO Base and units in NM
I have been reading and listening to hunters and the complete issues surrounding the LO base for tags each year in New Mexico. Here are my 2 cents on all this that I have been reading. The big question is WHY! Why does the LO base have any more rights in the Draw? Take away the LO base and make it right by all who put in for these tags. Gives the NR a little better chance and put them all on the same page sort of speak. The ordinary Joe putting in for a NR tag in most situations it too damn expensive and they cannot afford to put in for a LO tag. The cost is outrages. LO are making a killing as it is charging anywhere from 6500.00 to 10,000.00 and up for a guided trip on that property as it is. then on top of that picking up all the LO clients they can for x amount of Dollars is absolutely crazy. when does the dollar amount in all these cases become enough. It's always about the Dollar and nothing else. Look what an NR pays for a tag in NM and look what they pay for a Regular License and that goes to the state if not drawn. So, with the NR percentages being so low in the draw because of the low percentages taken away from the DIY hunter those percentages drop to .5 percent up to maybe just maybe 3 percent in some units. It's crazy. So, the Whiners stop and think of how if you were in those situations how much whining you would have. No one should complain about the low percents the NR has period. If you want to complain then complain to the dept or your system that come up with these idiot ideas in the first place. Take away the LO base and make a difference to all. 90% 10% across the board. How about 80% 20 % across the board now listen to the complaints?
Maybe it is just me, but I have no idea your point after reading that twice.
All hard drugs are legal in Oregon!
When you say it’s all about the dollar, isn’t it that the hunters want to keep more of their dollars to use for something else. If I’m a landowner I’m gonna make as much as I can, what a concept. I didn’t buy the land to be a charity
OP did say he was giving us his 2 cents. Not sure it was worth that much.
The NMFG couldn't give a rats ass about you
All non Residents feel your pain. Heres why your complaint will go no where.
New Mexico is a liberal state that loves their freebies- take away Welfare would be like denying a heroin addict his fix, the Resident landowners will go berserk.
The NMF&G is there to manage primarily for their residents and LO's- you won't change that.
The LO system is supposed to compensate LO's for lost revenue- a fair concept, its not the F&G fault it has gotten out of hand and not their concern.
I just wish the state would step in to control the Graft in that system. By a LO tag at your own risk. I had a tag I bought from a LO, sent them the $$- and at the last minute they sold it out from under me to a higher bidder.
80/20 - nope.
90/10 - yep.
The game comission created a monster with the EPlus system, it would be like putting a heroin addict into rehab...
Like HDE, I'm a resident. I think EPlus is stupid. I would be much happier with 80/20 or 90/10.
When you get the eplus program shut down and everyone gets a tag for free please talk to Ford Motor Company and get the price of their Superduty Powerstroke trucks reduced. $105,009 for my new truck is just crazy !! Ford only cares about Ford. If we could get the truck prices down to about $10,000 for a new F350 diesel I’d be happy. Next let’s talk about a new custom home..those contractors should be right after FOMOCO.
There are a lot of benefits to E-Plus. In the areas I hunt, the private ranches have developed the water infrastructure that keeps the herds going year round. Landowners do suffer losses in fence damage and competition for grazing on their pastures. The current system, while having room for some reforms, gives enough value to the elk herds the landowners will tolerate and even embrace them. It opens 600,000 landlocked public acres to public hunting along with otherwise closed private lands. From my experience, it’s a fair deal for the public hunter, which I am.
NM high - that's not the crux to EPlus. EPlus has turned into a money game for LO's and high rollers. Not all the LO's that receive tags have the damage caused by elk, the base for the reason why landowner permits were given in the first place, quite some time ago.
That is the reason many avg joe hunters have, in their eyes, tags taken away so the "JJ's" of the world can buy them up.
HOWEVER, it has opened up access to otherwise difficult to access public lands, as mentioned.
As a non resident I'd love 80/20 even 90/10 would be better then now. But I'm not completely opposed to landowner tags. IMO they should just be non transferable (except possibly to immediate family) and only good for said landowners property not unit wide. Not that that's going to ever happen.
The thing that most people don’t understand is to receive an eplus voucher the property has to benefit elk. Meaningful benefit and the property must qualify for a tag. They use a score system and you need to score a certain score to be enrolled in the program. I read, whenever this topic comes up people always talk about the ranchers fences and that doesn’t have a thing to do with it…. Meaningful benefit for elk on private land! Trust me . Great program. Just last night I watched over 100 elk, bulls, cows and calves on private land grazing the pastures and drinking from the two stock tanks for the night on an 85 acre private property.
I suggested this a few years ago on this site and didn't get much interest it was a reasonable idea. Here goes again- Forget the damage to fences, let's talk lost grazing on private lands. Ranchers have for decades fought to keep grazing fees on FS and BLM lands around the current $1.35 AUM (animal unit month) for cattle (including calves). While elk are a tad smaller than many cattle, let's they need the same forage. So instead of providing land owners elk tags, give them actual money (via Game and Fish) for the forage consumed by elk. Say 20 elk all year around x 12 mo. x $1.35 = $324. Game and Fish can put those old LO tags on the regular draw so both residents and non-residents would have quite a few more tags to apply for. Private property owners can still charge trespass fees for the hunters that wish to go that route.
How long will 85 acres run 100 head of elk?
The 80-20 or 90-10 base would be great for not just the Nonresident but also the resident. I can't see why anyone would complain about that. The issue with the LO is that in my opinion when receiving the number tags issued to them is fine but! Your issued so many tags for elk, then take the Rich hunter's money and then have them just hunt the property for which the tag was given your property, it is not a unit wide property tag. Then we have the outfitters draw. So why in the hell does an outfitter have a better Draw % than an out of state hunter? If that one makes any Damn sense. Therefore, if anyone cannot see the fact that a straight across the board draw is better for everyone. and I mean everyone. 80/20-90/10 straight across
"Say 20 elk all year around x 12 mo. x $1.35 = $324. Game and Fish can put those old LO tags on the regular draw so both residents and non-residents would have quite a few more tags to apply for. Private property owners can still charge trespass fees for the hunters that wish to go that route."
Better yet, put the RO/UW tag into the draw as a separate hunt code associated or correlated to that tract of land and make the tag cost equal to a state tag fee plus whatever the amount is your example above used. For a resident bull: $90 + $324 = $414. For a NR: $548 + $324 = $872.
The LO gets a check cut to them from Game and Fish for $324.