Sitka Gear
Persistance Hunting, (Run down an Oryx)
International
Contributors to this thread:
Ace 05-Dec-23
Brotsky 05-Dec-23
Bou'bound 05-Dec-23
Lee 05-Dec-23
Corax_latrans 05-Dec-23
smarba 05-Dec-23
Aspen Ghost 05-Dec-23
Corax_latrans 05-Dec-23
Lee 05-Dec-23
fuzzy 05-Dec-23
KsRancher 05-Dec-23
Bake 05-Dec-23
Lee 05-Dec-23
JohnMC 05-Dec-23
ki-ke 05-Dec-23
TMac 05-Dec-23
Corax_latrans 05-Dec-23
JSW 05-Dec-23
Ace 06-Dec-23
Ace 06-Dec-23
Ace 06-Dec-23
Ace 06-Dec-23
KSflatlander 06-Dec-23
DonVathome 06-Dec-23
Missouribreaks 06-Dec-23
smarba 06-Dec-23
Corax_latrans 06-Dec-23
Murph 06-Dec-23
Amicus 06-Dec-23
walking buffalo 06-Dec-23
Corax_latrans 06-Dec-23
WV Mountaineer 06-Dec-23
Treeline 06-Dec-23
From: Ace
05-Dec-23
I came across this and thought: We might have a few guys here just crazy enough to try it. They made a documentary, the trailer is embedded below.)

-------------------------------- Before bow hunting, our ancestors hunted with spears according to the anthropologists. In order to approach the antelope, the hunters would exhaust the animals by outrunning them in a hot environment. The animals tend to overheat more quickly than humans due to their fur, which limits their ability to sweat across their entire bodies, and as quadrupeds, they are more exposed to heat radiation from the sun and the ground.

Being a hunter and an ultra-runner, I was intrigued to determine whether persistent hunting was a forgotten skill or a misconception.

During my investigation into the practice of persistent hunting, I came across two scholars from Charles University in Prague who had published articles on the subject in scientific journals. They came with some interesting scientific suggestions and were particularly interested in monitoring and measuring all aspects of persistent hunts.

The next step involved finding an outfitter who shared an interest in anthropology and the ancient hunting techniques of the San people and who could arrange expeditions. The focus was on Namibia or South Africa. Out of around 20 outfitters contacted, only Philip Hennings of @KHOMAS HIGHLAND HUNTING SAFARIS expressed interest in the project.

We assumed that we would follow the antelope 4 to 6 hours a day or around 40 km. Considering my personal fitness level, I could only undertake three consecutive days of hunting, in the desert environment. After these around 120 km, I would get to slow. The additional challenge of Namibia was that large parts are more then 1000m (3000 ft) above sea level, which makes running more exhausting.

The first expedition took place in the Kalahari Desert in 2021. We gained valuable knowledge during this initial persistent hunt and were almost successful. We managed to get within one meter (3 feet) of an Eland, and then lost him in the thick bushes.

The second expedition, in the Namib Desert, featured much hotter and more open terrain, minimizing time spent on tracking. We succeeded during this second attempt and successfully speared an oryx. The hunt was done with the valuable assistance of two trackers who were also running.

To confirm that persistent hunting is an art and not just a stroke of luck, we recently completed our third expedition. Over the course of three days, we achieved two successful persistent hunts. The scholars joined us this time, meticulously measuring every detail for scientific purposes. Notable facts for their upcoming publication include an air temperature of 40°C and ground temperatures reaching 60°C (resulting in melted running shoes and blisters). My maximum body temperature was 39.1°C, while the oryx's got overheated and stopped running with a core temperature of a scorching 44°C. Under these conditions, the oryx succumbed within two hours while running an average of 8.5 km/h.

For anyone fit and eager to attempt this unique hunting experience, contacting Philip Hennings. He successfully organized a comfortable camp in the remote and barren Namib Desert and knows experienced trackers who can accompany you during the persistent hunt.

It is a unique hunting experience. When you get tired after running for a long time, and you see that you are closing in on the Oryx, in his natural dessert environment, it gives the energy boost needed to push for success. Then you reach the stage when you can encircle the Oryx, like predators do. When the Oryx gets properly overheat, he will stop running, stand and later sink through his legs. When the oryx is encircled, he is in an absolute fighting mood, and you have to be very aware of his long horns and assaults. When he gets tired and further over heated, it is possible to come close enough and finish the hunt.

It is an absolute unique hunt and the most intense way to experience the power of nature and art of hunting. It is hunting in its very very core.

From: Brotsky
05-Dec-23
Midwest needs to try this. I'll find the Kenyans.

From: Bou'bound
05-Dec-23
Do they initially find the oryx by cell camera ?

From: Lee
05-Dec-23
Crazy

05-Dec-23
I don’t know, ‘Bou, but I’m sure the success rate skyrocketed once the San got bows and poison-tipped darts to weaken the animals before they started chasing them…

Interesting to think about the politics of this… On the one hand, one of the biggest complaints that Non-hunters have with “sport” hunting is that modern weaponry makes it “unfair” because even a selfbow provides too great an advantage for some folks’ sensibilities. On the other hand, I can’t come up with a much less humane way to kill an herbivore…

JMO, it’s Good Science to have tested a hypothesis and documented that this form of hunting could have been a massive step forward in the history of human predation.

That said…. I can’t get behind anyone else doing it. They’ve proven that it is humanly possible, so anyone else who tries it is in it only to prove something about themselves, and that’s not ethically justifiable. Animals shouldn’t be made to suffer for human vanity. There’s nothing in this experiment that you can’t prove about yourself by going for a hard run on a hot day and clocking yourself.

And not for nothin’, but just as drawing blood = punched tag, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that once you start running an animal in that kind of heat, it’s gonna die… and you’re going to pay somebody to shoot it with a rifle.

From: smarba
05-Dec-23
I've seriously wanted to try this with pronghorn; however, the trick would be to be good enough to keep after the exact same animal by tracks if/when you lose sight of it.

Persistence hunting is also described in the book "Born to Run".

From: Aspen Ghost
05-Dec-23
The way I understand it is that it was pretty common for native americans to run down deer. But I understood that they would space themselves out and take turns like relay runners.

I see it as more humane than every predator they face on a daily basis. At least they aren't being eaten while still alive like 4 legged predators often do.

05-Dec-23
I can’t imagine that working out on sage goats… they aren’t massive enough to overheat, and they’re so fast that they’d have plenty of time to rest up/cool down between heats…..

I’m sure that Plains tribes must never have bothered, because it would be so much easier to let the Cheetahs catch them and then go steal it from them. And if you’re going to do that much running, why not chase a Buffalo? Preferably off of a cliff…. LOL

Cape Buff, I think I might take a hard pass….

From: Lee
05-Dec-23
Crazy

From: fuzzy
05-Dec-23
That's good stuff.

From: KsRancher
05-Dec-23
There is a movie/series about some guys giving it a try on speedgoats in NM. My boys like to run and they came across it somewhere. So we sat down and watched it as a family

From: Bake
05-Dec-23
YouTube bushman running down kudu in the kalahari. There is a documentary on it. It was done on the ranch belonging to Tholo Safaris in Botswana. My PH was there. Said the old bushman did it twice. 8 hours each day to run down and spear two kudu. He said it was pretty dang cool to watch

From: Lee
05-Dec-23
Crazy

05-Dec-23
Now that’s fair chase:>)))

From: JohnMC
05-Dec-23
GF yourself you have been in CT way to long or maybe it is just a perfect fit for you.

From: ki-ke
05-Dec-23
I think it’s quite the incredible feat. I’m also in the camp that believes it’s pretty far from a humane way to take a life. The condition of the meat is $hitforsure after that as well.

I’ve had a few self inflicted tracking rodeos that could be considered “persistence” hunting, but they for sure weren’t on purpose and the sense of accomplishment was tarnished by what certainly couldn’t be considered a “humane” way to go…..

I’ll still watch the vid when finished. Expect massive blowback from many places…

From: TMac
05-Dec-23
That is intense. I would die before the animal lol

05-Dec-23
With you, Ki-ke!

From: JSW
05-Dec-23
I've seen it happen with elk. If you stay on the track long enough and keep jumping them, eventually, they will give up.

From: Ace
06-Dec-23
In the Northeast and Upper Midwest they (we?) practice an American version of this by tracking down a mature buck in the snow. YMMV

If you don't know about the Benoits, Hal Blood, etc, take the time to read about them. Pretty cool.

Some stories worth reading:

Larry Benoit: https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/content/articles/deer-news/larry-benoit-an-american-deer-hunting-legend

Hal Blood: https://www.outdoorlife.com/story/hunting/hal-blood-snow-tracking-bucks-in-north-woods/

https://www.outdoorlife.com/most-legendary-hunters-ever/

13 Best WT Hunters (watch out #13 will trigger some here) https://www.fieldandstream.com/hunting/best-whitetail-deer-hunters/

Adirondack Trackers: https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/hunting/deer-hunting/2011/01/three-trackers-three-late-season-bucks/

From: Ace
06-Dec-23

From: Ace
06-Dec-23

From: Ace
06-Dec-23
The url may be too long to embed: You can copy and paste this interview with Joe Dinitto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCNGC9Q8Hhg

From: KSflatlander
06-Dec-23
And we really wonder why hunters are losing public support.

Corax got this right. Stupid vanity stunt.

From: DonVathome
06-Dec-23
I got to tired just thinking about this!

Very interesting. I once read about a way to kill a whitetail by pushing it after it ate, at some point it would be forced to stop to digest food or it would die.

06-Dec-23
I like Ace's post. We hunted a lot of deer with bows and guns by tracking them down in snow and killing them. Tracking deer for a shot is basically a lost art these days. It works good in areas of big woods such as northern Michigan and Wisconsin. Most of today's hunters simply are not that energetic.

From: smarba
06-Dec-23
Huh, Corax and Flat agree. Who would have thunk?

I've tried following elk tracks in fresh snow, but am not good enough to keep them sorted out and stay on the same track. I've also always wanted to try following a set of fresh mountain lion tracks, but have to find some in the first place.

06-Dec-23
I’m a huge fan of picking up a track and sticking with it; that’s how I have found a lot of productive areas out west, though on my best effort, I was only able to close to within about 80 yards. Nice bull, though— tending a herd, with unusually long (6X6) main beams, though the rest of the points were relatively short. I can still see him looking over his shoulder at me…..

In the populous areas of the East, though, you’d have to come across a SMOKING hot track to have a prayer of catching up without crossing a property line. An absolutely ENORMOUS parcel of private here is all of a half-section….

Elk, though… Years ago, a radio tracking study determined that a hard push of a herd of Elk could send them running for 3-4 miles, as I recall…. That was a Rifle season study, naturally…

But FWIW, there’s a huge difference between stealthily dogging a track until you can get a clean shot and deliberately running an animal to exhaustion. I might even go so far as to wonder whether it would fall under wanton waste to employ a hunting method which is pretty well guaranteed to result in meat of a quality which not many would be willing to eat…. So there’s that.

I guess you can’t argue that physically running a free-ranging animal down on your own two feet is about as “fair” as it gets, and it certainly fits the description of a “chase”, but this is one of those subsistence hunting techniques which really (IMO) falls far outside the bounds of “sportsmanlike” and probably fits very neatly into Wildlife Harassment, especially since it probably falls outside of “reasonable” to expect to kill the animal AT ALL, so it’s basically pointless abuse. And if running them to exhaustion isn’t THE least humane death possible, it’s damn close. It would be over more quickly with a pack of feral dogs eviscerating the animal on the run…

From: Murph
06-Dec-23
Maybe we can get Beav to chime in on this but I know of 1 story in particular an antelope buck was nearly ran to death

From: Amicus
06-Dec-23
This is a very interesting topic to me. I think its amazing that man was able to hunt by running down its pray. Christopher Mcdougall, author who wrote the book " Born to Run" mentions this topic in great detail.

06-Dec-23
Back in the 2000's Alberta F&W was seriously concerned about Youtube pursuit hunters coming here.... They spent considerable time pondering how to legislate the practice into illegality while not unduly effecting hunters that were not doing the run till dead by exhaustion....

At the same time, F&W did make hunting big game with spears and atlatls illegal.

In doing so, they made it illegal to finish of big game with a knife to the throat.

06-Dec-23
JMO, be glad they thought to shut it down before it got any traction.

The finishing with a knife thing doesn’t worry me much. And yes, I have done it, but I’m smarter now.

06-Dec-23
I think it’s fascinating. And down right cool. Who here can say they are bada$$ enough to run down a wild animal?

I’ve done it before so I can say that I am. And, these dudes were too. We are an elite bunch. Just ask the Paul’s brothers. :^)

Seriously, How can this not be admired for the sheer determination this would take.

From: Treeline
06-Dec-23
Persistence pays…

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