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Kansas Bow Hunter Kills 36 Point
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
Bowboy 15-Dec-23
njbuck 15-Dec-23
Jaquomo 15-Dec-23
wytex 15-Dec-23
midwest 15-Dec-23
KB 15-Dec-23
Bou'bound 15-Dec-23
Supernaut 15-Dec-23
KHNC 15-Dec-23
SteveB 15-Dec-23
KB 15-Dec-23
Dale06 15-Dec-23
wildwilderness 15-Dec-23
JTreeman 15-Dec-23
W8N4RUT 15-Dec-23
RK 15-Dec-23
sitO 15-Dec-23
Bowaddict 15-Dec-23
Jaquomo 15-Dec-23
KHNC 15-Dec-23
KB 15-Dec-23
stealthycat 15-Dec-23
KHNC 15-Dec-23
KB 15-Dec-23
SteveB 15-Dec-23
PECO2 15-Dec-23
Jaquomo 15-Dec-23
TGbow 15-Dec-23
Quinn @work 15-Dec-23
Matt 15-Dec-23
Bou'bound 15-Dec-23
Bent arrow 15-Dec-23
Matt 15-Dec-23
KB 15-Dec-23
Matt 15-Dec-23
KB 15-Dec-23
Matt 15-Dec-23
KB 15-Dec-23
Matt 15-Dec-23
non typ 16-Dec-23
KB 16-Dec-23
Charlie Rehor 16-Dec-23
Bou'bound 16-Dec-23
BOWUNTR 16-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 16-Dec-23
elk assasin 17-Dec-23
RK 17-Dec-23
Slate 17-Dec-23
KB 17-Dec-23
Cazador 17-Dec-23
From: Bowboy
15-Dec-23

Bowboy's embedded Photo
Bowboy's embedded Photo

Bowboy's Link
What a buck! He was looking to kill a mule deer. Also the property hasn’t been hunted for 10yrs per the article.

From: njbuck
15-Dec-23
Amazing deer. Congrats to the hunter.

From: Jaquomo
15-Dec-23
Great buck! Goes right to the heart of the cell-cam/baiting discussions. Would he have killed this buck otherwise?

From: wytex
15-Dec-23
He might have if he had just gone and hunted the property, it was shown on camera during the day. Great buck !!

From: midwest
15-Dec-23
Dream buck! Wet dream even!

15-Dec-23
awesome deer...good for him.

"Goes right to the heart of the cell-cam/baiting discussions. Would he have killed this buck otherwise?"

who knows?

all the cam did was let him know the buck existed on the property...at a given point in time.

he did everything else prior to knowing the buck existed... from getting permission to hunt the land...to setting a stand... etc. then he actually had to wait him out...compose himself...pull off the shot...and following up after the shot. he also had to have the presence of mind to know that his shot might not have been the best...and therefore back out and let the buck bed down...and maybe most importantly to call in help on the tracking job and not give up.

impressive...

From: KB
15-Dec-23
Heck of a buck.

Will be interesting to see if P&Y accepts it, if he tries to enter it.

From: Bou'bound
15-Dec-23
Will be interesting to see if he is interested in registering it with P&Y

From: Supernaut
15-Dec-23
Wow, dandy!

From: KHNC
15-Dec-23
Can someone highlight anywhere in the article where it said he was "hunting" over the mineral block or any other type of bait? He may not have been within 200yds of it while he was in his stand. It can not be determined from the information available. Also, I hope he doesnt bother to enter it. Ive never entered a single animal , although I have many that will qualify if i decided to. Why even bother? Even tho it drives the egos of many on here. You can be a P&Y member/supporter without entering any game animals.

From: SteveB
15-Dec-23
Hard to believe there could be any negative discussion regarding the taking of this buck. Can't imagine P&Y wouldn't accept it under any of these circumstances.....but if so, who cares? I have never entered one of my animals myself. IMHO, I believe that an animal should get credit for every inch that is on its head and that is my reason. No deductions. Can't even imagine that "perfect" matching sides is the basis for score. I have no issue though with organizations like P&Y whatsoever, and who knows maybe one day I'll enter one. In the situation here on this thread, to even mention a negative word regarding the taking of the animal just seems petty to me.

From: KB
15-Dec-23
No one cares Kenny.

Was just curious where a pic at 3:20am and dead by 7am would fall in their “eliciting real time response” fair chase verbiage.

From: Dale06
15-Dec-23
What a deer, congrats to the hunter.

15-Dec-23
It could be argued that some Egos are driven by claiming they have killed a P&Y eligible animal and did not enter it because they are "above" that.

If you truly didn't have an Ego about it you would not even mention it.

From: JTreeman
15-Dec-23
So are we trying to say if you have a pic of a deer on your camera during the night and you legally kill him the next morning it wouldn’t/shouldn’t qualify for p&y? Haters gonna hate I guess…

—Jim

From: W8N4RUT
15-Dec-23
+1 wildwilderness

From: RK
15-Dec-23
What an awesome deer. Good job young man !!

From: sitO
15-Dec-23
Pretty sure Kaleb was just asking a question, or for clarification on the P&Y "rule".

~~ Dork

From: Bowaddict
15-Dec-23
Must not be many on bowsite entering animals, I couldn’t find the ego driven posts of the #’s of entries people have and scores for all of those entries plastered everywhere! And bowsite is full of accomplished hunters! We all must be morally superior and above that. Oh wait, yes that line of thought is ego driven….ooops!

From: Jaquomo
15-Dec-23
I don't care one way or the other, if what he did was legal. Just pointing out the facts. But he said they "set up a stand and then placed a mineral block and cellular camera nearby". I doubt they put the cell cam 200 yards away from the mineral block and stand. No different than throwing out a sack of corn and putting a cell cam on it, then waiting to hunt it until a good buck shows up on your phone while you're watching football on TV miles away. Really puts the "hunt" in "hunting".

Great buck, good for him, if that's what trips his trigger, and he actually used a bow.

From: KHNC
15-Dec-23
"If you truly didn't have an Ego about it you would not even mention it."

When did I ever say I didnt have an "ego"? I think very highly of myself. I try to be confident in everything I do. Confident doesnt mean Cocky either. Sorry that you dont have a high opinion of yourself. And its been mentioned many times on BS about animals being entered in P&Y. I just dont care if about entering them. But I certainly do care about killing them.

From: KB
15-Dec-23

KB's embedded Photo
KB's embedded Photo
This is from the Kansas reg book. I’m not a lawyer, but assume it could be argued what he did is in fact illegal. Obviously the cat is out of the bag and no one seems to care as far as law enforcement is concerned.

My comments weren’t out of jealousy or hate JT. It’s a 250 inch buck I’d hope would be entered if eligible. Simply curious about how the club would view this situation.

From: stealthycat
15-Dec-23
I wonder without a game camera would he have ever hunted the area?

they've changed the way many people hunt, myself included

From: KHNC
15-Dec-23
KB- That paragraph you posted will NOT be argued as illegal. Ridiculous to assume it could be. NO ONE CARES! If cell cameras were ever going to be an issue in Kansas, 1000's of people would be charged.

From: KB
15-Dec-23
Cell phones, check. Hunting, check. Location, check. Big game, check. Mechanical means, check…. But yeah, “ridiculous”.

Thanks for the lesson on how many folks use cell cams. Had no idea.

From: SteveB
15-Dec-23
Game and Fish (and insurance company lobbyists) want deer killed. Period.

From: PECO2
15-Dec-23
"Also, I hope he doesnt bother to enter it." Why do you care? It's his buck, his call. If people didn't enter animals, there wouldn't be a Pope and Young or Boone and Crockett club.

From: Jaquomo
15-Dec-23
PECO, because the way he describes it in the interview, he likely violated the "fair chase" clause. Roy Grace wrote an excellent clarification of how it works.

From: TGbow
15-Dec-23
What a monster

From: Quinn @work
15-Dec-23
Well that didn’t take long. LOL

From: Matt
15-Dec-23
“Cell phones, check. Hunting, check. Location, check. Big game, check. Mechanical means, check…. But yeah, “ridiculous”.”

Your word salad aside, unless he used his phone in the actual act of hunting the deer I do not think anyone could successfully argue what he did was illegal. Receiving a picture of a deer does not constitute “hunting” per the Kansas definition.

From: Bou'bound
15-Dec-23
Have we confirmed the two important facts …….that being whether or not, he belongs to the state bowhunting organization, and how many children are prevented from hunting on the properties that he hunted on

we shouldn’t be celebrating this until we get clarification on those points

15-Dec-23
according to p&y...

"CELLULAR TRAIL CAMERAS / TECHNOLOGY"

The Pope and Young Club, historically, has not viewed the use of trail cameras as a violation of the Rules of Fair Chase.

With the invention of wireless trail cameras, as well as other devices that can send real time data to a hunter, all hunters need to consider how the use of these devices may affect fair chase. While the use of a wireless trail camera is not automatically a violation of the Rules of Fair Chase, using this technology to deliver real time location data of the animal being hunted would be a violation of rule #7 of our Rules of Fair Chase."

to me..."real time" means immediate...as in...while hes in his stand. from the sounds of it...thats not what took place. all he knew was that the buck happened to be cruising three hours prior.

From: Bent arrow
15-Dec-23
With out cell cams we could tell who is a hunter and who is just a shooter. Ban um all.

From: Matt
15-Dec-23
“ With out cell cams we could tell who is a hunter and who is just a shooter. Ban um all.”

I thought it was tree stands, more than 80% let-off and bait? Now cells cams are in the mix?

So hard to keep up.

From: KB
15-Dec-23
“unless he used his phone in the actual act of hunting the deer I do not think anyone could successfully argue what he did was illegal. Receiving a picture of a deer does not constitute “hunting” per the Kansas definition.”

So you’re saying a buddy could text you a picture of a buck you otherwise wouldn’t know about with obvious landmarks and because you’d have to show up and find/pursue the buck yourself that wouldn’t be in violation either? He’d actually have to walk you in on said buck via a live connection?

How about a fellow sitting in his cabin midday that gets a picture from his feeder tucked in a ravine at the back of the property who promptly hustles back to execute a shot? Didn’t use his cell phone between leaving the cabin and pulling the trigger, so he’s good?

From: Matt
15-Dec-23
“ So you’re saying a buddy could text you a picture of a buck you otherwise wouldn’t know about with obvious landmarks and because you’d have to show up and find/pursue the buck yourself that wouldn’t be in violation either? He’d actually have to walk you in on said buck via a live connection?”

I am not saying that, the Kansas regulation is saying that. Now I understand why you made the comment you are not a lawyer.

From: KB
15-Dec-23
“It is illegal to give information concerning the location of big game by radio or mechanical means;”

I don’t think I have to be a lawyer to comprehend this.

From: Matt
15-Dec-23
“I don’t think I have to be a lawyer to comprehend this.”

Not at all, but you don’t seem to understand that has no implication on this situation. The difference between where a deer is and where a deer was seems lost in you.

From: KB
15-Dec-23
So Matt B’s interpretation is that as long as the animal takes one step it no longer matters that the location was transmitted. They should add that to the reg!

About 15 years ago there was a big bust in Kansas of a large group of fellows who were running deer with pickups and radios. That would have been a good defense. “The buck technically moved between when I told my buddy where he was and where he killed it!”

Or are you guys reading some certain time/distance parameters I’m missing here?

From: Matt
15-Dec-23
Seems to be everyone’s interpretation but yours.

And since when did we start measuring time in steps? You seem to have a tense problem. Amongst others.

From: non typ
16-Dec-23
If you can use live scope to catch fish why not live cam to hunt?

From: KB
16-Dec-23
Time is a flat circle.

16-Dec-23
"So you’re saying a buddy could text you a picture of a buck you otherwise wouldn’t know about with obvious landmarks and because you’d have to show up and find/pursue the buck yourself that wouldn’t be in violation either?"

dont outfitters do that all the time with their prospective clients?

i think the key here is "real time." if your buddy was sitting in a treestand down the ridge from you and he called you told you to be prepared because buckzilla just gave him the slip and he is headed in your direction...that might well be an issue based on p&y rules.

having your buddy text you pictures of buckzilla that has been showing up regularly on the cell cam...and saying "we better hit it hard this weekend" is a different story...or if a buck that you didnt know existed shows up on your cell cam in the middle of the night and you decide to go after him the next day...thats not "real time."

at the end of the day, p&y rules arent written in stone. they change as technology changes. didnt p&y used to not allow high let-off bows?

16-Dec-23
"Time is a flat circle."

some people think the earth is too... :)

16-Dec-23
Once in many lifetimes buck. Congrats and enjoy.

After reading this thread he’ll probably want to come on Bowsite and tell the whole story. Ya think??

From: Bou'bound
16-Dec-23
He could join Tiffany and the two Ohio guys and do a four story feature that would certainly be well received by the the bowsite crowd Charlie.

Add a trans swimmer to the lineup and we will have an all time classic.

From: BOWUNTR
16-Dec-23
Wildwilderness +2

Charlie, some guys hunt from their keyboard, some don't. I doubt the hunter cares about any of these typed words. Ed F

From: Grey Ghost
16-Dec-23
KB, you bring up a good point. A few years ago, I personally knew 3 hunters who killed Bighorn sheep rams by having spotters direct them to the rams in real time using text messages. I actually started a thread about it, here, to get others opinions. The vast majority of the responses were "if it's legal...blah, blah, blah..." I was surprised how many Bowsiters had no problem with it,

At one time it was illegal to use 2-way radios in the same fashion in Colorado. I knew game wardens who monitored 2-way channels for hunters who were violating the law. For some reason, that regulation doesn't exist any more, sadly. I think it happens a lot more than some think. And I'm sure there are plenty of P&Y entries that violate the fair chase rule, but they lie about it on the paperwork.

Matt

From: elk assasin
17-Dec-23
This to me is now the piss and moan bitch about everything site. Disparage everyone that doesn't agree with your opinions. Pat start a site for these guys the argue, piss and moan, I am right about everything site.

From: RK
17-Dec-23
And Elk Assasin you could be the first to post on that new site, pissing moaning and bitching about all the people that piss moan and bitch about everything.

Grey Ghost. I suspect you are right about some of the entries in Pope and Young. If one is old enough there was a day that PY took entries from high fence properties based on the opinion of the scorer. but that has been eons ago.

From: Slate
17-Dec-23
Non-resident :-) did he kill it over a big corn pile :-)

From: KB
17-Dec-23
Elk, maybe Instagram is more your style. I find many folks blindly congratulate random people on there without much discourse. They even use cool emojis like fist bumps, flames, and underlined 100’s!

Google “cellular cameras fair chase” and you’ll find dozens of articles from all of the premier hunting media outlets discussing exactly what has been in this thread. Including from the very same outlet that released the story on this buck. It’s a hot topic and many states have different regulations surrounding them, some that I still feel include a little “gray area” (though Matt B proved I’m just a big dummy). The lucky fellow who took this buck did not start this thread, so why wouldn’t it be taken in the direction it has?

From: Cazador
17-Dec-23
GG,

Funny you mention that. On my goat hunt this year I told my partner if you call me on my phone during the stalk and mention anything about a goat I will hang up. Same goes for txts, don’t send me anything related to the hunt. Although legal in CO, I wanted no part of it, none. I didn’t want anything to jeopardize the fair chase affidavit.

Funny thing is, after I arrowed the goat, I called him and asked “did you see that” he said “see what, where you at? The goat is still there”. He was looking on the wrong side of the slide.

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