"Goes right to the heart of the cell-cam/baiting discussions. Would he have killed this buck otherwise?"
all the cam did was let him know the buck existed on the property...at a given point in time.
he did everything else prior to knowing the buck existed... from getting permission to hunt the land...to setting a stand... etc. then he actually had to wait him out...compose himself...pull off the shot...and following up after the shot. he also had to have the presence of mind to know that his shot might not have been the best...and therefore back out and let the buck bed down...and maybe most importantly to call in help on the tracking job and not give up.
Will be interesting to see if P&Y accepts it, if he tries to enter it.
Was just curious where a pic at 3:20am and dead by 7am would fall in their “eliciting real time response” fair chase verbiage.
If you truly didn't have an Ego about it you would not even mention it.
Great buck, good for him, if that's what trips his trigger, and he actually used a bow.
When did I ever say I didnt have an "ego"? I think very highly of myself. I try to be confident in everything I do. Confident doesnt mean Cocky either. Sorry that you dont have a high opinion of yourself. And its been mentioned many times on BS about animals being entered in P&Y. I just dont care if about entering them. But I certainly do care about killing them.
My comments weren’t out of jealousy or hate JT. It’s a 250 inch buck I’d hope would be entered if eligible. Simply curious about how the club would view this situation.
they've changed the way many people hunt, myself included
Thanks for the lesson on how many folks use cell cams. Had no idea.
Your word salad aside, unless he used his phone in the actual act of hunting the deer I do not think anyone could successfully argue what he did was illegal. Receiving a picture of a deer does not constitute “hunting” per the Kansas definition.
we shouldn’t be celebrating this until we get clarification on those points
"CELLULAR TRAIL CAMERAS / TECHNOLOGY"
The Pope and Young Club, historically, has not viewed the use of trail cameras as a violation of the Rules of Fair Chase.
With the invention of wireless trail cameras, as well as other devices that can send real time data to a hunter, all hunters need to consider how the use of these devices may affect fair chase. While the use of a wireless trail camera is not automatically a violation of the Rules of Fair Chase, using this technology to deliver real time location data of the animal being hunted would be a violation of rule #7 of our Rules of Fair Chase."
to me..."real time" means immediate...as in...while hes in his stand. from the sounds of it...thats not what took place. all he knew was that the buck happened to be cruising three hours prior.
I thought it was tree stands, more than 80% let-off and bait? Now cells cams are in the mix?
So hard to keep up.
So you’re saying a buddy could text you a picture of a buck you otherwise wouldn’t know about with obvious landmarks and because you’d have to show up and find/pursue the buck yourself that wouldn’t be in violation either? He’d actually have to walk you in on said buck via a live connection?
How about a fellow sitting in his cabin midday that gets a picture from his feeder tucked in a ravine at the back of the property who promptly hustles back to execute a shot? Didn’t use his cell phone between leaving the cabin and pulling the trigger, so he’s good?
I am not saying that, the Kansas regulation is saying that. Now I understand why you made the comment you are not a lawyer.
I don’t think I have to be a lawyer to comprehend this.
Not at all, but you don’t seem to understand that has no implication on this situation. The difference between where a deer is and where a deer was seems lost in you.
About 15 years ago there was a big bust in Kansas of a large group of fellows who were running deer with pickups and radios. That would have been a good defense. “The buck technically moved between when I told my buddy where he was and where he killed it!”
Or are you guys reading some certain time/distance parameters I’m missing here?
And since when did we start measuring time in steps? You seem to have a tense problem. Amongst others.
dont outfitters do that all the time with their prospective clients?
i think the key here is "real time." if your buddy was sitting in a treestand down the ridge from you and he called you told you to be prepared because buckzilla just gave him the slip and he is headed in your direction...that might well be an issue based on p&y rules.
having your buddy text you pictures of buckzilla that has been showing up regularly on the cell cam...and saying "we better hit it hard this weekend" is a different story...or if a buck that you didnt know existed shows up on your cell cam in the middle of the night and you decide to go after him the next day...thats not "real time."
at the end of the day, p&y rules arent written in stone. they change as technology changes. didnt p&y used to not allow high let-off bows?
some people think the earth is too... :)
After reading this thread he’ll probably want to come on Bowsite and tell the whole story. Ya think??
Add a trans swimmer to the lineup and we will have an all time classic.
Charlie, some guys hunt from their keyboard, some don't. I doubt the hunter cares about any of these typed words. Ed F
At one time it was illegal to use 2-way radios in the same fashion in Colorado. I knew game wardens who monitored 2-way channels for hunters who were violating the law. For some reason, that regulation doesn't exist any more, sadly. I think it happens a lot more than some think. And I'm sure there are plenty of P&Y entries that violate the fair chase rule, but they lie about it on the paperwork.
Grey Ghost. I suspect you are right about some of the entries in Pope and Young. If one is old enough there was a day that PY took entries from high fence properties based on the opinion of the scorer. but that has been eons ago.
Google “cellular cameras fair chase” and you’ll find dozens of articles from all of the premier hunting media outlets discussing exactly what has been in this thread. Including from the very same outlet that released the story on this buck. It’s a hot topic and many states have different regulations surrounding them, some that I still feel include a little “gray area” (though Matt B proved I’m just a big dummy). The lucky fellow who took this buck did not start this thread, so why wouldn’t it be taken in the direction it has?
Funny you mention that. On my goat hunt this year I told my partner if you call me on my phone during the stalk and mention anything about a goat I will hang up. Same goes for txts, don’t send me anything related to the hunt. Although legal in CO, I wanted no part of it, none. I didn’t want anything to jeopardize the fair chase affidavit.
Funny thing is, after I arrowed the goat, I called him and asked “did you see that” he said “see what, where you at? The goat is still there”. He was looking on the wrong side of the slide.