onX Maps
Will NM change to a straight draw system
Elk
Contributors to this thread:
Muley75 20-Dec-23
Buckdeer 20-Dec-23
HDE 20-Dec-23
TEmbry 20-Dec-23
Glunt@work 20-Dec-23
NM highcountry 20-Dec-23
BoggsBowhunts 20-Dec-23
HDE 20-Dec-23
KY EyeBow 20-Dec-23
JSW 20-Dec-23
Dale06 20-Dec-23
NM highcountry 20-Dec-23
IdyllwildArcher 21-Dec-23
HDE 21-Dec-23
mrelite 21-Dec-23
Bake 21-Dec-23
KHNC 21-Dec-23
duckhunterbrad 21-Dec-23
Bowfreak 21-Dec-23
Tilzbow 21-Dec-23
Scoot 21-Dec-23
IdyllwildArcher 21-Dec-23
NM highcountry 21-Dec-23
Muley75 21-Dec-23
Muley75 21-Dec-23
HDE 21-Dec-23
Cheesehead Mike 22-Dec-23
IdyllwildArcher 22-Dec-23
From: Muley75
20-Dec-23
Will NM ever change to a straight across the Board Draw? The 80-20 or 90-10 base would be great for not just the Nonresident but also the resident. I can't see why anyone would complain about that. The issue with the LO is that in my opinion when receiving the number tags issued to them is fine but! Your issued so many tags for elk, then take the Rich hunter's money and then have them just hunt the property for which the tag was given your property, it is not a unit wide property tag. Then we have the outfitters draw. So why in the hell does an outfitter have a better Draw %, and gives nothing to the state than an out of state hunter? If that one makes any Damn sense. Therefore, if anyone cannot see the fact that a straight across the board draw is better for everyone. and I mean everyone. 80/20-90/10 straight across the board.

From: Buckdeer
20-Dec-23
They need to make the LO tags only be used on that landowners land. But better than the old days when they would fire sale left overs and the outfitters would pay guys to stand in line to get vouchers then resale them.

From: HDE
20-Dec-23
Isn't there already a thread on this?

From: TEmbry
20-Dec-23
The argument I’ve always heard against land owner tags being only valid on your property is that elk are migratory animals. Just because elk aren’t there during the short hunting season doesn’t mean you don’t have a valid claim that they negatively impact your land at other points during the year (crop damage etc).

I know before I’m flamed that there is way more to it than that boiled down version but it is a valid counterpoint to restricting the LO tags.

From: Glunt@work
20-Dec-23
Very hard to take back a government subsidy once it's in place.

20-Dec-23
I put in for different draws every year in different states and I think NM is about as good as it gets. I am currently saving money to buy a LO tag if I don’t draw NM. Complain all you want but I have drawn NM elk about 8 times in the last 18 years and bought 4 LO tags that’s a lot of elk hunting. In AZ I have put in for 18 straight years and never have drawn an elk tag. Leave NM the way it is…. Best in the West !

20-Dec-23
Commercialization of hunting. They love the fact that they can bring guaranteed $ into their “outdoor industry” every year and they don’t care that it comes at the expense of the common man who applies, draws, and hunts on his own.

From: HDE
20-Dec-23
"Best in the West"

That's debatable.

From: KY EyeBow
20-Dec-23
+1 Glunt!

From: JSW
20-Dec-23
No.

From: Dale06
20-Dec-23
I’ve hunted elk in NM the last four years and will this Sept. Every year is a land owner tag, on private property. And I hunted only on that land owners land. I obviously don’t have a problem with that.

20-Dec-23
HDE what state has a better draw and better elk hunting and what makes it better?

21-Dec-23
NM, your view is jaded by the fact that you live in NM. You are in the resident pool. So comparing it to AZ is apples and oranges.

And I'll answer for HDE: Wyoming, for one. All the states are completely different situations though, due to populations among other things.

From: HDE
21-Dec-23
NM high, since we're expressing opinions, UT.

1) each year you don't draw, you get an additional bonus chance the next year.

2) 1/2 the limited entry tags are random.

3) a waiting period in between tags for a species lets others have a shot at it instead of the cosmicly unexplainable lucky ones that draw good tags every year or two, some years in a row several times back to back

From: mrelite
21-Dec-23
If a waiting period between tags worked then one would think an old person like me who has been applying since the conception would eventually draw a OIL on range oryx tag. Nobody who has ever drawn the tag can apply for it again so they are completely removed from the pool but it remains unattainable for many since the draw odds stay they same or increasingly get worse, even though they added more tags. Actually one must use the term "draw odds" very loosely in NM, more like drawing trends which is not the same as draw odds.

The reality is that the draw system is as random as can be, a person may draw a tag repeatedly or they may never get a tag, regardless of what color lipstick is placed on the pre draw verbiage.

I imagine NM isn't changing anything unless it is forced to!

From: Bake
21-Dec-23
I'm not a big fan of the outfitter pool stuff in NM, but I don't have a vote there so it's not up to me. Also, NM has been awfully good to me. In 14 years of attempting to draw, I've had a premium elk tag and a OIL elk tag. The premium elk tag was drawn prior to the outfitter pool implementation.

No other state has been as good to me. So I have kind of a hard time complaining about it :)

From: KHNC
21-Dec-23
Negative. Too many butt munching ranchers on LO tag welfare. A Gila LO tag sells for 20-25k now.

21-Dec-23
I've had the most success applying for tags New Mexico over any other state, and I apply in a lot of them! Could it be better? Possibly, but I firmly believe it's the best system going at this time.

From: Bowfreak
21-Dec-23
NM has its share of issues but give me a state with random draws and I'll take my chances.

From: Tilzbow
21-Dec-23
I’ve applied in NM three times and have drawn two Gila elk tags. Conversely I’ve applied in my home state of NV since elk tags became available in the 1980’s and have drawn one tag. We did have a 10 year waiting period for successful hunters so I was unable to apply for 10 years in the early 2000s but that’s still around 30 years of applying for one tag.

That said I do prefer NV’s squared bonus point system, without any additional special preference given to max point holders, to any other state but with the low overall game population demand against very limited supply makes it difficult to draw any tags.

From: Scoot
21-Dec-23
Lots good about NMs system. Welfare for LOs and hugely preferential treatment for outfitters (different form of welfare) are not part of the good.

21-Dec-23
I agree with Scoot.

And Tilz, then you have guys like me who've applied in NM for 11ish years and never drawn a tag. The random part is what it is. It's the whole 'giving out 1/2 the tags to SFW and LOs' part that creates the problem.

21-Dec-23
HDE not trying to pick a fight but all of NM limited entry's are in the random because it’s all random. Sitting out because you’ve drawn last year IMO sucks. That’s like winning in Vegas and you can’t go back for a few years. In NM if you don’t draw you don’t have to sit home, buy a tag and go. Going into the AZ draw in 2024 I will be going in with 20 non res elk points, never have drawn a tag but I get it….Iv’e been very lucky in NM and very unlucky in AZ but that’s how it is. I don’t want AZ to change their draw I just need some luck. One thing is for sure in 2024 I’ll either draw a tag or buy one I won’t be sitting home crying about the draw I’ll be looking for a bull in NM !

From: Muley75
21-Dec-23
WOO! I would have thought a straight across draw would be appealing to most and it happens I was wrong in thought. But most still don't like the LO or the Outfitter draw. Well, if you take the two away you have a straight draw. 84% res 16% nonresident Right now, it's 84-10-6-. 84% residents 10% nonresident with an outfitter, 6% nonresident, without an outfitter. The 6% the Nonresident of the average Joe averages about a 0.5% to maybe 1.5% in the draw if you're lucky. If you don't draw your able to purchase a LO tag for X amount of dollars. Correct me if I'm wrong please. That is why both ends in my opinion are wrong. Outfitters should draw no more than a Nonresident, I have not figured out yet why they get 10% of the draw? The individual who draws 6 out of 8 times pays up to his nose in fees to draw with a LO. Wipty Doo if you have the Bucks to do so. The average Joe Makes up 95% of the Nonresidents while the other 5% are like the Big Dogs who run most of these States. It's always about the Dollar. I think that point sucks! The guy that runs out of those 20-28 years of points now complains he might have to wait another 20-28 years to draw. The guy that says you still have a 50/50 split on the draw is correct but, in those cases, there is usually 3 tags Nonresident. 2 go to high points and 1 goes to luck of the draw which again is usually 00.1% chance to draw. My thought and only mine is the point system sucks they can say all they want but when their points run out it's a different story. In My Opinion with a few others a straight across the board is still better for everyone including the States with the money they'd save.

From: Muley75
21-Dec-23
WOO! I would have thought a straight across draw would be appealing to most and it happens I was wrong in thought. But most still don't like the LO or the Outfitter draw. Well, if you take the two away you have a straight draw. 84% res 16% nonresident Right now, it's 84-10-6-. 84% residents 10% nonresident with an outfitter, 6% nonresident, without an outfitter. The 6% the Nonresident of the average Joe averages about a 0.5% to maybe 1.5% in the draw if you're lucky. If you don't draw your able to purchase a LO tag for X amount of dollars. Correct me if I'm wrong please. That is why both ends in my opinion are wrong. Outfitters should draw no more than a Nonresident, I have not figured out yet why they get 10% of the draw? The individual who draws 6 out of 8 times pays up to his nose in fees to draw with a LO. Wipty Doo if you have the Bucks to do so. The average Joe Makes up 95% of the Nonresidents while the other 5% are like the Big Dogs who run most of these States. It's always about the Dollar. I think that point sucks! The guy that runs out of those 20-28 years of points now complains he might have to wait another 20-28 years to draw. The guy that says you still have a 50/50 split on the draw is correct but, in those cases, there is usually 3 tags Nonresident. 2 go to high points and 1 goes to luck of the draw which again is usually 00.1% chance to draw. My thought and only mine is the point system sucks they can say all they want but when their points run out it's a different story. In My Opinion with a few others a straight across the board is still better for everyone including the States with the money they'd save.

From: HDE
21-Dec-23
NM high - UT gave me an antelope tag this year after applying for 13 years. NM has yet to do that. I had 13 pts in UT. I have zero pts in NM.

This year I am guaranteed a deer tag, my choice of bow, muzzleloader, or rifle because I have max preference pts. NM cannot guarentee me that. The last deer tag I had in NM was 2011. The last deer tag in UT was 2015. Before 2011 in NM was 2001.

I can go archery elk hunting every year in UT OTC. NM, I've been sitting out since 2017 unless I buy a LO tag for more than a UT OTC.

Depending on the elk hunt and unit, I'm guarenteed a bull tag in UT because 50% of the tags go to the max point holder. If that doesn't pan out, I get to still try for one of the remaining 50% in the random.

22-Dec-23
If you've been applying in Arizona (or most preference point states) for 18-20 years and have never drawn a tag it's because you didn't want a tag that bad. There are tags that you could have drawn in Arizona at least 10 years ago but you've apparently chosen to only apply for premier tags. Since there are no preference points in New Mexico, your odds of applying for 18-20 years and never drawing a tag are greater than in a preference point state. In a preference point state you have the option of choosing a lesser unit or a general tag in some states and going hunting. That is not an option in New Mexico because even the lower demand units have extremely low draw odds. That being said, back before they reduced the non resident tag allotment I did draw new Mexico 3 years in a row.

22-Dec-23
Again, comparing NM as a resident with AZ as a non-resident is apples and oranges.

Resident's odds of drawing in every western state that has elk are far better than drawing as a non-resident - typically by many multiples.

  • Sitka Gear