Sitka Gear
Thought provoking article
Whitetail Deer
Contributors to this thread:
fuzzy 28-Dec-23
Bou'bound 28-Dec-23
Ironbow 28-Dec-23
Aspen Ghost 28-Dec-23
fuzzy 29-Dec-23
fuzzy 29-Dec-23
DanaC 29-Dec-23
Charlie Rehor 29-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 29-Dec-23
fuzzy 29-Dec-23
Boreal 29-Dec-23
fuzzy 29-Dec-23
Jethro 29-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 29-Dec-23
Bake 29-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 29-Dec-23
Ironbow 29-Dec-23
Glunt@work 29-Dec-23
Chris Walker 29-Dec-23
fuzzy 29-Dec-23
Chris Walker 29-Dec-23
Jeff Durnell 29-Dec-23
Grey Ghost 29-Dec-23
Chris Walker 29-Dec-23
fuzzy 29-Dec-23
Chris Walker 29-Dec-23
fuzzy 29-Dec-23
Candor 29-Dec-23
From: fuzzy
28-Dec-23
https://lakedarbonnelife.com/2023/12/24/when-a-hunter-says-nothing-at-all/

28-Dec-23
not sure why that bothers him really. a scorer is just that...a scorer...not a counselor. a hunter doesnt owe them anything. some people are talkers and some arent. with all the scrutiny of every big buck taken...i cant say i blame the no-talkers. to each their own...

From: Bou'bound
28-Dec-23
Interesting

From: Ironbow
28-Dec-23
I spent 18 years as an official scorer. He is quite right. Maybe later I can add a few of my own tales.

From: Aspen Ghost
28-Dec-23
I don't get his issue. I check out people before I do any significant business with them. He's put out because a couple hunters trusted him?

He may not have known them, but if they are like me, they already knew a lot about him and have talked to people that have had him score deer. They likely had heard he was a stand up guy who could be trusted and did a good job scoring deer.

From: fuzzy
29-Dec-23
And RCG, 100% right ;)

From: fuzzy
29-Dec-23
Ironbow, please do if you have time. I'd be interested. I think the writers concern is that if someone takes a really nice trophy animal, its strange that they don't want to be there to watch the scoring process and supervise "custody" of the rack. Sort of implies a lack of excitement and investment.

From: DanaC
29-Dec-23
"Sort of implies a lack of excitement and investment."

Or maybe they just don't wish to be 'interrogated' about a deeply 'personal' hunting experience. Not everyone wants to be surrounded by fanboys.

29-Dec-23
I’ve measured for P&Y and B&C for 16 years and have never measured a rack without the trophy owner being present. Appears some other measuring organizations do it differently but that makes no sense to me.

From: Grey Ghost
29-Dec-23
I don't get the author's problem, either. If a hunter wants to keep the details of his hunt private, I respect and can relate to that. You don't have to "show respect" to an animal by plastering it all over the internet. That's more about the hunter than the animal. Not everyone is a "look at me" type.

Matt

From: fuzzy
29-Dec-23
DanaC that's quite possible. I have a friend who has killed three P&Y class big game animals and never entered them of had them officially scored. He just doesn't like attention and avoids the public and crowds.

From: Boreal
29-Dec-23
He's making baseless assumptions because of the lack of information. I assume the guy lost his job, his mother died and he just found out his teenage daughter is pregnant. I make these assumptions based on the same information the measurer had.

From: fuzzy
29-Dec-23
Boreal, interesting analysis. As I said, thought provoking....

29-Dec-23
when you really think about it...isnt it pretty presumptuous on the scorers part to expect anything other than a rack to score?

will the score change based on the hunters story...how well you like the hunter...what the particulars of the hunt were...or whether its their first or 400th buck?

maybe all scoring should be done anonymously.

From: Jethro
29-Dec-23
My thought was measurer should stick to measuring racks and not worry about the societal behavior analysis.

From: Grey Ghost
29-Dec-23
"maybe all scoring should be done anonymously."

I agree. Perhaps the hunter's name shouldn't be included in the record book entries, either. Just the date, county of the kill, and the official score. After all, isn't it all about "showing respect to the animal", as so many hunters claim? Let's be honest, record books are more about stroking the ego of the hunters, not showing respect to the animals. IMO, you show respect to the animal by making a swift, ethical, legal kill, caring for and utilizing the meat, and perhaps displaying a mount of the animal in a location where you can admire it and reminisce about a successful hunt and a beautiful animal. You can still support the record book clubs and all the good things they do for hunting without having your name in a book.

Matt

From: Bake
29-Dec-23
I don't know that I see the issue. I can see circumstances where I would do the same. Let's say I had to drive an hour to get there, and I planned it to coincide for another event at the same time. So I dropped it and ran to the other event. I think that would be reasonable. I would probably tell someone what I was doing, but that's just me.

As far as ego and record books. . . . who cares?! I have an ego. Deal with it. It sure doesn't affect anyone else. I killed an elk this year that will make B&C awards but not all time. I'm entering him anyways. I'm damn proud of him. And I'm damn proud of myself even though I stumble-bumbled into him in a premier unit and really don't deserve any credit. And for the record, I'd enter him even they didn't put my name on it. Same goes for the few P&Y entries I have. I'd enter them anyways even if my name was no where near it.

My .02

From: Grey Ghost
29-Dec-23
Bake, there's nothing wrong with having an ego. I generally don't like people who don't like themselves. I'm damn proud of every P&Y caliber animal I've killed too. I just don't have any desire to see my name in a book with thousands of other similar kills. That said, I think you're the rare exception of someone who would enter a record book animal without your name attached to it. I admire that.

Matt

From: Ironbow
29-Dec-23
I have had guys want to have a rack scored and entered. Until they found out they had to sign an affidavit stating the animal was taken in fair chase. Then they were no longer interested.

I had guys get upset with me when the score wasn’t as high as they thought it should be. I would take the score sheet and go over each measurement with them. Usually it was a misunderstanding about how to score a rack. Sometimes they had a buddy score it and came up with a higher score. Some guys were understanding, others left mad and upset.

I have had guys tell others a score that wasn’t correct and claim I scored it. I did score it, but it wasn’t the score I gave it. Funny thing, it was always a higher score, not a lower one.

And I have had guys drop racks off and tell me how they killed the deer then pick it up and tell me a completely different story on how they killed it.

I had two occasions when the buck missed the book by less than an inch. One guy was still excited, I thought the other guy was going to throw the antlers in the dumpster.

I was always impressed with the guy that no matter the score, was still excited about the animal and liked to talk about his hunt. Some gave lots of details, some not so much. But you could still see the gleam in their eye about the accomplishment.

From: Glunt@work
29-Dec-23
Strikes me as a guy that was looking for something to write about.

I've had buddies drop off and pick up an elk at the processor for me. That's way more important than a rack. I am so ashamed :^)

I've only shot a handful of big critters. Usually it requires they step out in front of me before something else legal does. I don't get them scored. Nothing screws up a good fish story like a measuring tape and scale.

29-Dec-23
Just cant figure out some folks issues/questions about wanting your name in "the book". In every endeavor of life, I would think people have goals that benchmark that endeavor throughout its progression. There is and never will be anything wrong with entering an animal, and it doesn't make you holier than thou if you have 50 non entered qualifiers at the crib. The whole debate is ignorant.

From: fuzzy
29-Dec-23
I like myself just fine. Sometimes even enough to buy me a drink. ;)

29-Dec-23
@fuzzy...so if the "book" means something to someone , they don't like themselves??

From: Jeff Durnell
29-Dec-23
"Strikes me as a guy that was looking for something to write about."

EXACTLY what I was thinking. And as a self-proclaimed professional writer, you'd think he'd have proofread his article/rant before he posted it. It was poorly done, close-minded and judgemental. He should stick to judging antlers, not people.

From: Grey Ghost
29-Dec-23
Chris Walker, to be clear, I never said there was anything wrong with entering an animal in "the book", if that's what you're in to. It's just never been important to me. I don't need that to be proud of killing an above average animal. I also think the obsession with inches of antler has been a net negative for hunting overall. But that's just my opinion. I respect your right to have a different opinion.

Matt

29-Dec-23
Grey Ghost/Matt...dont remember singling you out. You might want to re-read my post. The quest for "the big one", has been there since the first deer camp was established. I agree there is some bad content out there for sure. But, we can't throw a blanket over everything. To me, when people boast, they boast. Whether it's I don't enter my incredible animals and I'm awesome or I only pick my bow up for 170 plus, it's all the same to me.

From: fuzzy
29-Dec-23
Chris Walker you must have me confused with someone else?

29-Dec-23
Probably

From: fuzzy
29-Dec-23

fuzzy's embedded Photo
fuzzy's embedded Photo
My comment was a wisecrack on Matt/Grey Ghost's first sentence in the comment shown here:

From: Candor
29-Dec-23
This article doesn’t strike me as concerning. There are just different factors that drive people and different personalities.

A real introverted or shy person may not want to expand the energy to talk with someone they don’t know.

I used to really enjoy power lifting. Some guys loved to talk about their lifts, their prep, gear…. Some guys wanted you to know how strong they were and that they were stronger than you. I just liked to lift. It was mind numbingly meditative to me in a way that I’ve not experienced in anything else. Many personalities in life and different journeys. I’ve never understood those that crave/are driven by recognition. But I think it must have some evolutionary biological purpose.

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