GOP fails again.
General Topic
Contributors to this thread:
Bent arrow 07-Feb-24
Dale06 07-Feb-24
spike78 07-Feb-24
Stix 07-Feb-24
KY EyeBow 07-Feb-24
TonyBear 07-Feb-24
TonyBear 07-Feb-24
Canepole 07-Feb-24
Stix 07-Feb-24
HDE 07-Feb-24
Stix 07-Feb-24
4nolz@work 07-Feb-24
csalem 07-Feb-24
DanaC 07-Feb-24
Matt 07-Feb-24
Mint 07-Feb-24
Catscratch 07-Feb-24
spike78 07-Feb-24
fdp 07-Feb-24
BowSniper 07-Feb-24
70lbDraw 07-Feb-24
BowSniper 07-Feb-24
Catscratch 07-Feb-24
stealthycat 07-Feb-24
4nolz@work 07-Feb-24
12yards 07-Feb-24
DL 07-Feb-24
Will 07-Feb-24
4nolz@work 07-Feb-24
Beendare 07-Feb-24
Matt 07-Feb-24
Dollar 07-Feb-24
Beendare 07-Feb-24
drycreek 07-Feb-24
Builder07 07-Feb-24
Will 07-Feb-24
Mint 07-Feb-24
bigeasygator 07-Feb-24
drycreek 07-Feb-24
spike78 07-Feb-24
spike78 07-Feb-24
bigeasygator 07-Feb-24
HDE 07-Feb-24
70lbDraw 07-Feb-24
bigeasygator 07-Feb-24
drycreek 07-Feb-24
bigeasygator 07-Feb-24
drycreek 07-Feb-24
bigeasygator 07-Feb-24
spike78 07-Feb-24
drycreek 07-Feb-24
Jaquomo 07-Feb-24
bigeasygator 07-Feb-24
spike78 07-Feb-24
spike78 07-Feb-24
bigeasygator 07-Feb-24
70lbDraw 07-Feb-24
drycreek 07-Feb-24
spike78 07-Feb-24
Matt 07-Feb-24
Beendare 07-Feb-24
bigeasygator 07-Feb-24
Matt 07-Feb-24
itshot 08-Feb-24
soccern23ny 08-Feb-24
BowSniper 08-Feb-24
Will 08-Feb-24
Dollar 08-Feb-24
fdp 08-Feb-24
BowSniper 08-Feb-24
TonyBear 08-Feb-24
Canepole 08-Feb-24
DanaC 08-Feb-24
BowSniper 08-Feb-24
jjs 08-Feb-24
Rut-N-Strut 08-Feb-24
70lbDraw 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
Catscratch 08-Feb-24
WV Mountaineer 08-Feb-24
ahunter55 08-Feb-24
fdp 08-Feb-24
WV Mountaineer 08-Feb-24
BowSniper 08-Feb-24
WV Mountaineer 08-Feb-24
RK 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
fdp 08-Feb-24
DanaC 08-Feb-24
BowSniper 08-Feb-24
tobywon 08-Feb-24
tobywon 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
BowSniper 08-Feb-24
BowSniper 08-Feb-24
70lbDraw 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
Beendare 08-Feb-24
spike78 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
WV Mountaineer 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
WV Mountaineer 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
WV Mountaineer 08-Feb-24
RK 08-Feb-24
WV Mountaineer 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
Mike E 08-Feb-24
70lbDraw 08-Feb-24
bigeasygator 08-Feb-24
70lbDraw 09-Feb-24
bigeasygator 09-Feb-24
4nolz@work 09-Feb-24
Beendare 09-Feb-24
bigeasygator 09-Feb-24
Beendare 10-Feb-24
From: Bent arrow
07-Feb-24
Fails on impeachment of mayorkas. 4 vote no. Both parties r worthless. We r third world country. Wake up.

From: Dale06
07-Feb-24
I read that one of the GOP no votes can bring it up for a re vote when the GOP has their ducks in a row. Not sure if that’s true, but would be nice to see the GOP accomplish something.

From: spike78
07-Feb-24
A former FBI agent went before Congress and found out that those meetings are all show and nothing ever results from it.

From: Stix
07-Feb-24
He wont be convicted in the senate, which needs 67 votes to convict. So why waste time and money?.... to send a message?

This is all show and a significant waste of taxpayer dollars, as was the impeachments of Trump and Clinton.There are more pressing issues that need immediate attention.

What high crimes or misdemeanors did Mayorkas commit anyway? Not doing your job is not an impeachable offense. If it were most of congress should be gone, from liberals to conservatives, progressives to MAGA.

Our government has turned into a steaming pile of crap. I'd welcome us being a 3rd world country.

From: KY EyeBow
07-Feb-24
I think it is pretty safe to say that neither party really represents at least 80% of our country, save the 10% crazies on either side. I would question the leadership as to why you even bring it to a vote if you don't have the support to pass the measure,,,, or maybe they knew they didn't have the votes and wanted to expose those in their own party who voted against them..................................

From: TonyBear
07-Feb-24

TonyBear's embedded Photo
TonyBear's embedded Photo
Sounds like rabbit hunting is better than politics..

From: TonyBear
07-Feb-24
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/doocy-asks-press-sec-how-biden-will-convince-voters-he-s-mentally-fit-after-confusing-macron-with-long-dead-mitterrand/ar-BB1hT30C?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b2b51ac73f7b48239150353e5b01cd32&ei=12

From: Canepole
07-Feb-24
Obviously some of you men have no idea what living in a third world country is really like. We have plenty of problems here in the U.S. but I challenge anyone here to name me a better country (overall) to live in.

From: Stix
07-Feb-24
Canepole, you are correct, we all dont know what a 3rd world country is like. 3rd world country originally was a term that came out of the cold war.

1st world: allies of US, nato etc

2nd world: allies of Russia, soviet bloc, etc

3rd world: those not aligning with either, or neutral.

Since then the term has been bastardized to mean other things, like poor or developing nations.

From: HDE
07-Feb-24
"So why waste time and money?.... to send a message?"

Same reason Trump was "impeached" twice...

From: Stix
07-Feb-24
HDE, the rest of my post:

"This is all show and a significant waste of taxpayer dollars, as was the impeachments of Trump and Clinton.There are more pressing issues that need immediate attention"

From: 4nolz@work
07-Feb-24
What's the point? He's doing the job the way his boss ( the president) wants him to do it.

From: csalem
07-Feb-24
Mayorkas needs to be removed or shot for treason but he has not committed an impeachable offense under the law

From: DanaC
07-Feb-24
"What's the point?"

Same as torpedoing the border bill. To maintain the "crisis".

From: Matt
07-Feb-24
“Same as torpedoing the border bill. To maintain the "crisis".”

Sadly, this. Politicians would have to work harder to fund-raise if there wasn’t a crisis they could point to it is a sad state of affairs when both parties ignore the will of the people in deference to their party’s ambitions.

From: Mint
07-Feb-24
"Same as torpedoing the border bill. To maintain the "crisis"."

You mean the Ukraine funding bill that they were calling a border bill with less than 20% going to fund our border. How is allowing 5,000 illegals to cross each day or 1.825 million illegal crosses a year a "border bill". It was a complete joke and Langford and McConnell should be out oft he Republican leadership.

From: Catscratch
07-Feb-24
Politicians invent crisis's all the time. If they don't have the answers to something that needs fixed then there's no reason to vote for them.

I listened to biden's speech yesterday. He spent the vast majority of it claiming that MAGA is weaponizing politics while he was in fact weaponizing politics in the same breaths. All the while blaming someone else for the crisis that he endorsed and allowed to happen. His lies are so blatant it's amazing he got any votes the first time around, and any support this time around.

From: spike78
07-Feb-24
Biden was on TV before he was elected saying how the U.S. can handle millions of immigrants. He was also saying he will end the fossil fuel industry. But then he goes and blames the Republicans on both issues hilarious.

From: fdp
07-Feb-24
"How is allowing 5,000 illegals to cross each day or 1.825 million illegal crosses a year".....the majority of people don't really even know what those numbers mean. That is indeed a real number, however it does not in any way mean that those individuals are allowed to remain in the country, or that they are not in detention.

"His lies are so blatant it's amazing he got any votes the first time around, and any support this time around."...that is a statement that could be applied to multiple political candidates.

From: BowSniper
07-Feb-24
The horrible proposed border bill was adding detention beds.... from 36k to 50k. So an extra 14 thousand or so.

And they would be filled in less than a week. And then back to releasing millions of illegals into the population. As planned. Who are you trying to fool with this stuff?!?!?!?

From: 70lbDraw
07-Feb-24
So, you reverse everything trump did to secure the border. Then you allow as many people as possible to enter with no consequences. Once the flood of illegals gets out of hand, you declare an emergency, act like you care about immigration, then hold America hostage by introducing a package to fix it. BUT, the only way to pass it is to give the Democrats money to launder under the guise of foreign aid.

“If you don’t let us help our foreign friends, we can’t guarantee the safety and security of the American people.”

Makes perfect sense. This is China joes mess. Soon he’ll be defending and releasing the illegals that gang up on, and ambush cops.

Yup, China joe ran his campaign to reflect exactly what he intended to do. If you voted for it; you’re part of the problem.

Y’all know who you are!

From: BowSniper
07-Feb-24
I don't even mind the money for Ukraine and Israel. But we are already spending $450 billion a year on the current immigration mess Biden created. He can't keep that AND send an extra 100 million overseas too. It's crazy!

From: Catscratch
07-Feb-24
"...that is a statement that could be applied to multiple political candidates."

Very true.

From: stealthycat
07-Feb-24
which Democrats voted to impeach ?

they're the failure - to keep a worthless Secretary of Security who's failed

Biden would have nominated a replacement Democrat - its not like they'd have lost power/control

From: 4nolz@work
07-Feb-24
The border bill is a Democrat joke-Biden can ignore any part he doesn't like.They created the current crisis but blame the GOP and Trump.Democrats don't care 1 bit about minorities or border security they are insulting voters intelligence.It worked before:they lied to Reagan about securing the border for amnesty and the same lie to Bush Sr. Liars and anyone who believes this lie is an idiot or willing fool

From: 12yards
07-Feb-24
They don't need a border bill. Biden allowed this mess to happen by slashing what was working. All he has to do is reinstate what was already working. No bill needed. Problem is that would make him admit Trump's policies were working.

From: DL
07-Feb-24

DL's embedded Photo
DL's embedded Photo

From: Will
07-Feb-24
Canepole: "Obviously some of you men have no idea what living in a third world country is really like. We have plenty of problems here in the U.S. but I challenge anyone here to name me a better country (overall) to live in."

Nailed it. This is the greatest place on earth. It's awesome. Anyone reading this web site has a life that would be nearly beyond dreams for many people around the world. Most people reading this spend hundreds or more likely thousands of dollars a year on hunting. Many have multiple vehicles some of which may be in excess of 50K and are likely walking around with a 800 dollar computer in their hand every day. We have it so good, that it's literally become sport to complain about it. (I'm guilty too).

You get down to it we all are lucky as hell to live here, at this point in history. LUCKY as hell!

From: 4nolz@work
07-Feb-24
Enforce the existing laws:

Must seek political asylum at the first border (usually southern Mexico)

Must cross at a recognized point of entry.

From: Beendare
07-Feb-24
Yeah sad….we have become the country of a uniparty

From: Matt
07-Feb-24
We are lucky this effort failed, as it would have set a dangerous precedent. I have no doubt that Mayorkas is simply following Biden’s directives and that is where the frustration should be directed. Unfortunately Biden outplayed us with this and the failed immigration deal, now having ammunition to blame Republicans for failing to act.

From: Dollar
07-Feb-24
Correct we don't live in a 3rd world country but whats worse actually living in one or watching yours transformed into one. We have no representation in DC haven't for a long time.EVERYTHING gets swept away and once Trump is gone it will go back to the same ole scam on US/the US.. Nothing every gets done on the right side.Maybe a inch here and there but really nothing.The left have a long game and are great at it and have plenty of accomplices. Trump is the last person to stand in the way.No republican will do what it takes.They'll get a few actions accomplished but it's just for show.Every four years we'll lose a little more fredom.Now the left smells blood and see's light at the end of the tunnel.They're getting more and more emboldeded and soon they won't care any longer if any light is shed on their actions. Those on the left if they had a an once of sense would ask why the constant attacks on Trump?What threat could Trump possibly present to those in power?Could he start WWIII?Tank the economy?Take our freedoms away? If that bill had passed yesterday every illegal that has entered this country in the last 3 yrs and more would be fast tracked to citizenship and voting rights.That was the hidden trick in that bill. No representation in DC is what we have.

From: Beendare
07-Feb-24
It seems many only read the headlines and are unaware how bad this border bill is. It still lets anyone in claiming they are persecuted. 80% of the money goes overseas to Ukraine and Israel.

BTW, do you know who wrote the bill and then puts pressure on the House to pass it before it can be read? The law firm of Schumer/ McConnell….I chit you not.

Meanwhile at the border.

Rank-and-file Border Patrol agents have slammed the Senate's $118B Senate funding bill that would guarantee 1.5 million illegal migrants entry to the United States, while sending the majority of funds to Ukraine ($60B+) and Israel ($14.1B), the Daily Caller reports.

Four rank-and-file Border Patrol agents told the DCNF that the “catch and release” of illegal immigrants will continue if the bill is implemented, because it allows for the release of family units and single adults that show a credible fear of persecution should they return home.

Catch and release is absolutely happening," said Andrew “Art” Arthur, who serves as a resident fellow in law and policy for the Center for Immigration Studies, in a statement to the Caller.

In recent years, Border Patrol has recorded high levels of illegal immigration. Agents recorded more than 2.2 million encounters of migrants crossing the southern border illegally in fiscal year 2022, a new record, more than 2 million in fiscal year 2023 and more than 629,000 between October and January, according to federal data.

“It’s a load of bullsh**,” a second agent told the DCNF. “We don’t need a border bill, we need to enforce the laws on the books.”

“Unaccompanied minors and families released, that’s unacceptable. They need to be removed,” the second agent added.

Two more agents told the caller that the bill is 'bullshit' for various reasons, including the release of families and certain single adults with 'credible fear' claims.

Ramaswamy;

They call it a “border bill,” yet less than 20% is allocated to our border & there’s more money allocated to protecting Ukraine’s border than our own. Typical swamp protocol. ( and I agree)

Kyle Bass; The imbeciles writing the Border bill snuck this beauty into the text: “ALIENS from NONCONTIGUOUS countries SHALL NOT BE INCLUDED IN THE SUM OF ALIENS ENCOUNTERED.” So Chinese, Somali, Yemeni, Russian, Iranian nationals encountered at the border simply won’t be counted???!… ——- Its becoming painfully obvious our gov does care about doing whats right for the avg working man. Both of these political parties have been hijacked.

From: drycreek
07-Feb-24
DanaC, there was no “border bill”, just a tool by which dems could get what they wanted. That’s what compromise has always meant to democrats, “give us most of what we want and we’ll give you a little bit of what you want. We’ll call it bipartisan !”

Unfortunately, politics being what it is, there are plenty of slugs to go around on both sides, our side just doesn’t have a long history of enslaving blacks, killing babies, or stuffing ballot boxes.

From: Builder07
07-Feb-24
Great Day for the GOP today. Got rid of McDaniel and Haley got beat by no specific person in the NV Primary.

Trump has it wrapped up. Like I said it'll be sewn up by early March for him. RNC will have to open up that wallet.

From: Will
07-Feb-24
So, a bill that does this stuff is bad? --Does not yield amnesty for folks already in the US illegally --increases ICE's detention capacity to 50K from mid 30's now. --If the 7d rolling average or a single day over 8500 illegal crossings occur, the border is shut, and no new asylum claims will be allowed. (That doesn't mean 5k would be allowed in. Single adults are detained, families are released to "alternatives to detention," and asylum seekers who have good cause are kept on track. --That closure would not "open" until attempted crossings drop. --Significantly tougher asylum requirements making it harder to enter on that claim --Major increase in funding to border municipalities and other municipalities to manage illegal crossers and massively increase deportation flights (1500 more). --Funding to hundreds of more officers in ICE, Border Patrol, and asylum officers. --Allows Pres to extend border shutdown for longer if deemed necessary - why didn't DJT actually just "shut it down"... he couldn't until COVID - which is why in 18, he advocated for this sort of legislation to pass... He even saw that his hands were tied and that the broader legislation needed to be updated to handle the modern border challenges. --Based on the current rate of crossings, the bills "closure" rule likely would come into play as soon as the bill took effect. (That's my paraphrase for brevity, of Fox News Channel Bill Melugins writing about the bill - not my opinion)

So, if you want to see border crossings dramatically drop (and no, the president cant wave a magic wand because the courts overturn that as they did for DJT and have for JB as well) by the end of April (the law takes effect 90 days after passing), you accept that this is the strongest border law update in decades and even if it does not include "the great wall of Texas" as part of it, it would massively reduce illegal immigration.

Is that good?

Yes, it would be good. I think it's funny as heck to see conservatives contort themselves in shock at getting the strongest border bill in decades set up, but then realize they don't really care; they just wanted a good campaign issue... And if crossings decrease, that's bad for the DJT business, so who cares about Americans?

As I said in some other thread in the past week, MAGA, but next year. Right now, we don't want to do anything about this thing that we have complained about being the biggest threat to America ever.

Is the bill perfect? No. But it's definitely the best option on the table and would make a difference - which is why the Border Patrol Union (who endorsed DJT in 20) believes it should be passed ASAP. Again, MAGA, but in a year and a half or whatever.

From: Mint
07-Feb-24
I've posted this before but our asylum laws are a complete joke. My last company had a production table and most of the workers were from Africa. About half of them were granted asylum visas since they said it was to dangerous for them to stay in their home country. The first thing they did after working six months and saving some money was ask for three months off to go back to their home country on vacation. I asked a few of them I thought it was to dangerous for you to go back their and they told me everyone lies to get asylum. Same thing the two brothers did that blew up the Boston marathon, came from Chechnya and then keep going back in forth.

From: bigeasygator
07-Feb-24
I've posted this before but our asylum laws are a complete joke

What's stopping the GOP from submitting their own bill to fix this?

From: drycreek
07-Feb-24
beg, democrats and rinos would stop it, as you always do.

will, Biden made this fricking mess by reversing everything Trump did to protect the border. The “Border Bill” was unnecessary if Biden had remained a dumbassed senator instead of a dumbassed president.

From: spike78
07-Feb-24
I guess I’m going to have to say this again. Agenda 2030 is in full swing and it won’t be stopped. Stop talking about two parties. DL has it right same damn bird. You’re gonna wish you lived in a 3rd world country in another 5 years maybe less it’s by design. If anyone doesn’t wake up and see all the changes in the last few years then you are truly sad. Alex Jones was predicting this crap 20 years ago and everyone thought he was nuts. Seems pretty damn smart now.

From: spike78
07-Feb-24
All you liberals on here that are gullible and believe everything is roses will have your AHA moment when it’s too late.

From: bigeasygator
07-Feb-24
beg, democrats and rinos would stop it, as you always do.

Seems pretty speculative. There's a Republican majority in the House. Senate is split. Democrats know the biggest issue at the moment is fixing the border problem. They've acknowledged it's a mess right now. Seems like Republicans have some leverage and could easily pass a bill.

Seems to me the main reason they aren't is to keep Trump's election hopes alive.

From: HDE
07-Feb-24
"...as was the impeachments of Trump and Clinton"

Stix - except that clinton actually lied under oath, an action that would land either one of us in jail. That one was not a waste of time or money...

From: 70lbDraw
07-Feb-24
“Democrats know the biggest issue at the moment is fixing the border problem. They've acknowledged it's a mess right now.”

They created it, now they want to profit from it. Why should Americans be held responsible for things outside of our most important asset…America itself?

From: bigeasygator
07-Feb-24
Why should Americans be held responsible for things outside of our most important asset…America itself?

That wasn't the question. Why haven't Republicans done something about it especially with a Democratic party that is no doubt willing to concede on certain issues?

From: drycreek
07-Feb-24
beg, Republicans will fix it when Trump is elected, and fix it right, not some wolf in sheep’s clothing that allows 5,000 wetbacks a day to enter with no consequences. I know that won’t fit y’all’s long game strategy of millions of dem voters to insure that you control both house and the presidency, but you’ll get it sooner or later because the electorate gets dumber every year. Patience grassgator !

From: bigeasygator
07-Feb-24
beg, Republicans will fix it when Trump is elected, and fix it right

Again, why wait? Everyone has said that true immigration reform is needed. They have a great opportunity to fix this with legislation right now, not weak executive actions that can be done at the drop of a hat.

Everyone is complaining that it's the biggest problem in the country...but they're in no rush to even attempt to fix it. Just underscores the point that it's more of a political issue than anything else.

From: drycreek
07-Feb-24
Do you actually think that dems would sign on to any sane immigration policy. Hell no they would not. Neither will a few rinos. Trump fixed it once, Biden screwed it up. Trump will fix it again. It’s pretty simple.

From: bigeasygator
07-Feb-24
Trump fixed it once

COVID fixed it once.

Corrected it for you.

From: spike78
07-Feb-24

spike78's Link
Democrats know the biggest issue at the moment is fixing the border problem. Lol BEG watch Biden’s speech I posted then repeat that.

From: drycreek
07-Feb-24
Covid started building the wall ? Covid issued the executive orders that Biden reversed on his first day in office ? I learn something new every day from you libs, but mostly it’s how you lie so easily. You should run for office beg, you’re a shoo in !

From: Jaquomo
07-Feb-24
"Democrats know the biggest issue at the moment is fixing the border problem. They've acknowledged it's a mess right now." Whaaaat? The border is already "closed", according to the Biden Administration.

This attempt to pass more laws is just window dressing ahead of the election, now that the polls are solidifying with immigration at or near the top. Why not simply enforce the ones we have? What faith do we have that Biden will enforce any new ones? What does "illegal" mean. They desperately want more future Dem voters to cross as quickly as they can, disappear, and receive those mail-in ballots.

From: bigeasygator
07-Feb-24

bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
bigeasygator's embedded Photo
Yup, ole Trump really changed the trajectory of illegal immigration once he got into office *sarcasm*

The biggest deterrent to illegal immigration was the COVID related shutdown of our economy.

People will find a way to cross the border if there’s a better life on the other side.

So go ahead and tell me, by what metric was the border problem “fixed” under Trump?

They desperately want more future Dem voters to cross as quickly as they can, disappear, and receive those mail-in ballots.

lol

From: spike78
07-Feb-24

spike78's Link
A militia ban bill? That’s funny how does the 2A read again?

From: spike78
07-Feb-24
They desperately want more future Dem voters to cross as quickly as they can, disappear, and receive those mail-in ballots. Actually what’s really going on is us pesky white race has to go starting with the US and Europe to be replaced by a compliant black and Hispanic race. As Biden has said us white people are the biggest threat to democracy and we are all racist. Think that sounds nuts do some research.

From: bigeasygator
07-Feb-24
That is nuts, spike.

From: 70lbDraw
07-Feb-24
“Everyone is complaining that it's the biggest problem in the country...but they're in no rush to even attempt to fix it. Just underscores the point that it's more of a political issue than anything else.”

So why was there so much push-back when trump tried to build the wall? Why is China Joes administration claiming that razor wire and walls won’t keep illegals out? Why are democrats so afraid to let someone try to secure the border? Why are they so convinced it can’t be done, when they are the biggest roadblocks to the solution? And why do they think they can hold the rest of us hostage while they KNOWINGLY fill the country with terrorists and malcontents, with no intention of prosecuting or deporting any of them that don’t assimilate?

From: drycreek
07-Feb-24
Does that chart track the “gotaways” ? Those are the ones we really need to worry about the most. No telling how many terrorists have entered that we don’t know about. Democrats have a long range agenda, and it’s to forgive all the illegals and secure the votes for their party. They don’t give a damn about this country, otherwise they wouldn’t be destroying it.

From: spike78
07-Feb-24
They desperately want more future Dem voters to cross as quickly as they can, disappear, and receive those mail-in ballots. Actually what’s really going on is us pesky white race has to go starting with the US and Europe to be replaced by a compliant black and Hispanic race. As Biden has said us white people are the biggest threat to democracy and we are all racist. Think that sounds nuts do some research.

From: Matt
07-Feb-24
“Republicans will fix it when Trump is elected, and fix it right, not some wolf in sheep’s clothing that allows 5,000 wetbacks a day to enter with no consequences.”

Bull$#!+. Trump didn’t fix the problem when he had a republican majority in the house and the senate. What makes you think he would fix it if he was re-elected? As you can see from this week’s antics, there is too much money and control around leaving the border open for either party to seriously address it.

From: Beendare
07-Feb-24
My bet is many are clueless as to whats in this bill. You be the judge if this primarily addresses our border as the talking heads claim.

This is according to Democrat Senator Patty Murray, Chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee;

The $118.28 billion national security supplemental package includes:

Foreign Aid Commitments:

$60.06 billion in support for Ukraine amidst Russian aggression $14.1 billion in security assistance for Israel $2.44 billion to address U.S. Central Command operations and conflict-related expenses in the Red Sea $10 billion in global humanitarian assistance $4.83 billion to support Indo-Pacific allies against Chinese encroachment $2.33 billion for displaced Ukrainians and other refugees worldwide Border Security and Immigration Provisions:

$20.23 billion for border operations, policy enforcement, and narcotics interdiction Introduction of the Fentanyl Eradication and Narcotics Deterrence (FEND) Off Fentanyl Act $400 million for the Nonprofit Security Grant Program Provisions for government intervention at varying thresholds of border encounters Work authorizations for illegal aliens

From: bigeasygator
07-Feb-24
My bet is many are clueless as to whats in this bill. You be the judge if this primarily addresses our border as the talking heads claim.

That summary leaves out a ton of provisions that are in the bill related to border security and immigration.

From: Matt
07-Feb-24
Joe Manchin's commentary on the border bill failure: "Well I’m sorry to all of my friends and colleagues — this is for America, this is good for our country,” he continued. “Start putting your country before yourself. Quit worrying about being a Democrat or Republican getting reelected. If you have to do this to get reelected, then you shouldn’t want to serve.”

Sounds like the border patrol union came to a similar conclusion.

Seems like some are willing to allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good in this case (meaning, some people seem to think incremental progress isn't beneficial unless it checks each and every box).

From: itshot
08-Feb-24
finish the wall, close the border then manage the points of entry (with much more focus on the northern border)....as hunters, every one of you knows what carrying capacity is, i hope

From: soccern23ny
08-Feb-24
Impeach him for what?

"High crimes and misdemeanors"?

Sucking at your job while fireable is neither of those things.

Also Republicans just shot down the most comprehensive boarder bill in a decade all cause their daddy trump doesn't want it.

Trump > America. Republicans don't actually care about America. In fact they hate most of its core tenants

From: BowSniper
08-Feb-24
BEG - The House DID submit a bill to fix the border issues.... called HR2. Passed in the house and was sent to the Senate. Schumer refused to put it up for a vote. And the proposed Senate bill (which didn't pass its chamber) contained ZERO provisions from the House bill that had already passed.

This claimed asylum problem could be fixed by requiring asylum seekers to apply at the first country they enter. That solves 90% of the problem. It used to be the the law. Was that requirement ever changed or is it just being ignored?

Remain In Mexico was the best fix ever. You wait until your asylum case is reviewed before entering. Period. Especially since roughly 90% of asylum claims are rejected.

We still let over 1 million enter legally every year. The system works just fine, if enforced. Secure the border and get in line....

From: Will
08-Feb-24
Dry creek. The court did that. Biden openly admitted as much and has even said he'd close it if given the legislative power. DJT couldnt "close" it either - hence his desire for legislation like what GOP just killed - TRUMPS DESIRE, back in 18. COVID made it possible, to sort of close it, but the courts didnt allow that to continue.

End point, D's didnt even push to figure out a way to get dreamers fixed/figured out. They basically gave away the farm that the GOP has asked for for years. Other than the great wall, pretty much everything was in there to create great reforms. WSJ, US Chamber of Commerce, a conservative from OK was a key negotiator and straight up admits he got pretty much all the GOPers asked for.

There is no analogy. It's somewhere between saying: "Ok, you gave us 90% of what we wanted, we are sorta shocked by that, but you know what, if the bill does not stop every single human from sneaking across, we wont do it" and "Yes, we believe the border is an existential crisis being used to destroy the country intentionally, but we choose to do nothing about it for at least a year and a half, assuming we can pass something better at that point".

Both suggest the GOP are not serious about this. If this is an epic mega fail, pass it and improve things, show it's weak points and do something better as a result. But at least you improve the situation while continuing the process.

At this point, the GOP is like the meme where the guy is riding his bike, shoves a stick in his front spokes, crashes, and then blames everyone else for falling.

From: Dollar
08-Feb-24
The border is the epitome of the WOKE agenda. As usual the dems project what they're actually doing.Lying,cheating,open border,corruption,threat to democracy,WWIII,economy in the tank,and crime thru the roof. Oh just in case you think the economy is fine.Here in Florida as good as it is there's plenty of Charter boats at least 50% off this season as well as outfitters.In fact I've had 3 calls looking for work and several mates looking for work.That hasn't happened in at least 7 years.

From: fdp
08-Feb-24

fdp's Link
Here's a link to the text of the bill if you actually want to read it.

From: BowSniper
08-Feb-24
Here's a quick test to know if the border bill is bullsh1t.....

Could it still allow an extra 1-2 million migrants to enter the US every year? (YES)

Could it be used to prevent Trump from deporting millions of migrants who already entered during the Biden years? (YES)

From: TonyBear
08-Feb-24
I have had some eye opening conversations with recent immigrants (legal) in the last 8-10 years. One of which was a African gentleman who talked about stepping over bodies at a local church so he could identify his family and relatives bodies before he came here as a teenager. In his 20s now and working while paying for tech school degree. He was running the scales at a company that did lead, other metals reclamation-we were sampling his air to check on exposures. Dude was very impressed about how much his employer (and govt. OSHA) cared about his health and well-being.

At another client they make bricks and blocks. Employed a lot of folks from Mexico, Latin America for 9 months while the plant was open. Noise and crystalline silica exposures all over the place. Mostly well controlled, in some areas we had to make changes. They did similar work in their home country of origin, no noise or air tests, workplace was very dangerous (operations as well as local crime drug cartel, etc.)

Lastly one other shop did countertop cutting from stone. Employed a lot of Russians, Polish, other ethnic groups from Europe. Controls were good in some areas, others not so much.

All three of these groups were suspicious from the onset when asking for their names and ID, etc. to form a permanent health record (as required by OSHA stds. and employer's work/HR plan). Once they figured out I didn't work for the government but for their employer and for their benefit; they couldn't believe it. In the countries of origin people are still killing each other for jobs and resources.

All of these folks were in the country legally and best I could tell were worried about how the increased illegal entry would affect their situation. Just like the rest of legal American citizens. The border needs to be secured, period.

From: Canepole
08-Feb-24
Gee Tony, I thought you were worried about shooting Cottontails?

From: DanaC
08-Feb-24
BowSniper, instead of those rhetorical 'could it' questions, maybe ask DOES IT, in fact, do those things?

We all know who benefits most from keeping the crisis boiling and making sure no 'less-than-perfect' solutions move forward.

From: BowSniper
08-Feb-24
Dana - I said yes it does. Did you know this 5000 a day for mandatory border shut down is an average for a week (35k)? So a caravan could still come in with 10000 just fine as long as the overall average for a week doesn't exceed a 5000/day average.

Did you know this count doesn't include unaccompanied minors?? A couple thousand more a day of them just fine per this Senate deal.

Did you know the bill would also allow 1400 migrants per day to request asylum at every one of the official ports of entry, not counting as part of the 5000/day average provision?

Did you know the mandatory shutdown isn't really mandatory? The President can waive the emergency shutdown authorization.

The whole thing is a scam. All it will do is make the 1-2 million extra migrants per year codified into law to make it permanent, and so no future President can stop it. By design....

From: jjs
08-Feb-24
Took a UW class 42 yrs ago, Ecology 101, the first major threat to our country ecology is unrestricted immigration/refugees, highly doubt the book is in print anymore.

For example, I live in SE Mn, and the squirrels have been in a major decline, the MnDNR did a study to find out the reason but did not come out with the conclusion since the high refugees of the Hmong population effect on the resource. Last year the Mo. wildlife officers busted a group of Hmong in southern Mo. for being over 200+ squirrels limit, they were from the St. Paul, Mn. area. I have had personal experience in the field in Wi./Mn. over this issue of double standards and it is the declining living standards that is crossing over.

Just to clarify, I really do not care what the skin color is as long as one abide to the law, this is what is happening on the border the double standards of illegal enforcement.

From: Rut-N-Strut
08-Feb-24
This is not a border bill. This is a fund Ukraine bill. $60B to Ukraine for a war they cannot win and $20B to secure the border which translated to still allow 1mil a year that we would know about. Until someone comes up with a bill that allows ZERO illegal immigrants across the border and has no other pork in it, DO NOT PASS.

From: 70lbDraw
08-Feb-24
So, the border that’s designed to keep people out doesn’t work. A portion of it physically stands to this day, but it can’t be completed because the Democrats have decided that walls and wires don’t work. At least, they don’t work unless the Democrats get their fringe benefits and perks included in the deal.

Perhaps we need to focus on what the consequences will be. We already have illegals banding together to create hate a chaos within America. We need to control the impending lawlessness? So how do we do that? Afterall, Trump “failed” to build the wall, and he wants to “defund” our law enforcement. So, what is our next level of defense? Perhaps we can all move to Ukraine, and enjoy their protected border? I mean afterall, we’re paying for it. We might as well enjoy it.

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24
Until someone comes up with a bill that allows ZERO illegal immigrants across the border and has no other pork in it, DO NOT PASS.

Agreed. Ease the path to legal immigration so that they don't have to do it illegally to come here and work.

Or are you just saying we should remove the ~8 million undocumented workers propping up our economy with no plan to backfill them? Because if so, that's dumb.

From: Catscratch
08-Feb-24
Lol! Ya campaign that your predecessor has really screwed up the border... Make a huge show out of reversing his orders... Encourages immigrants to seek asylum here... Accuse anyone wanting a strong border policy is a racist... Claim the border is now a big nothing burger now that you are in charge... Institute media blackouts so that citizens can't see your big nothing burger... Tear down and sell predecessor's wall, pennies on the dollar... Claim inhumanity when border states ship immigrants to sanctuary cities...

Switching stance on EVERYTHING you've stood on and blame someone else for the issues as a political weapon... PRICELESS!

08-Feb-24
Yeah. That’s dumb. But, not nearly as dumb as covertly supporting illegal immigration to drive down labor costs so only illegals could afford to prop up the economy.

From: ahunter55
08-Feb-24
The yea changing to nay will allow them to bring this back for another vote. BUT yes, they are not doing the will of the people for darn sure. Fact, news clip-The U.S. Border Patrol is reporting more than three times the number of encounters at the U.S.-Mexico border than it experienced under former President Donald Trump, punctuating what Republicans have defined as a "crisis" level situation at the southern border that has emerged under President Joe Biden's leadership. The rate is so significant that Biden, in fewer than two years, has already wracked up over one million more illegal crossings than Trump did throughout his entire administration—including more than 2 million crossings in 2022 alone.

From: fdp
08-Feb-24
"Until someone comes up with a bill that allows ZERO illegal immigrants across the border and has no other pork in it, DO NOT PASS."......if they are ALLOWED across the border and ALLOWED to stay they AREN'T illegal immigrants.

08-Feb-24
It’s an easy fix. It really is. Build a wall. There’s been one guy in the last 50 years advocating to do that. Truly advocating it. Not playing political shenanigans postering. As every single established politician does.

From: BowSniper
08-Feb-24
BEG - the 8 million illegals are NOT propping up our country in ANY way. Those are just the ones that rushed in since Biden took office, and are awaiting asylum hearings. They cost the country $450 billion a year per last govt reporting I have seen...

Counted separate from the other 10-20 million illegals who have accumulated here in the decades prior to Biden.

08-Feb-24
FWIW, the GOP is incompetent because they try to play the moderate role. The fence riders always end up catching it. They can’t commit to their beliefs for fear of upsetting the voting base. Yet, are incapable of middle policy for fear of alienating their voting base.

Party politicians are the ailment of this country. And, they’ve done a bang up job of doing so while diverting the attention of the American people.

Moderates. That’s for eating sweets. Not political policy.

From: RK
08-Feb-24
WV. Wall going up in Texas as we speak. But the state is doing it not the feds. Border is a super mess for sure

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24
But, not nearly as dumb as covertly supporting illegal immigration to drive down labor costs so only illegals could afford to prop up the economy

Huh?? Your reasoning is baffling. Nay, borderline nonsensical.

It’s an easy fix. It really is. Build a wall.

You're delusional if you think a wall will stop illegal immigration.

BEG - the 8 million illegals are NOT propping up our country in ANY way. Those are just the ones that rushed in since Biden took office, and are awaiting asylum hearings. They cost the country $450 billion a year per last govt reporting I have seen...

I'm referencing these numbers, but would love to see how your $450 bln cost was derived.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/#:~:text=Overall%2C%20about%207.8%20million%20unauthorized,year%20from%202007%20through%202015.

The point is that our economy is incredibly reliant on labor supplied by undocumented workers - some industries far more than others. Despite what I think WVM tried to argue, removing them will have dire consequences for our economy. GDP would take a massive hit, deficits would spike, specific industries like agriculture, construction, and hospitality could see double digit decreases in workforce reductions.

From: fdp
08-Feb-24
"our economy is incredibly reliant on labor supplied by undocumented workers - some industries far more than others.".....always has been I grew up in Lee County Texas on the edge of the Yegua Bottom and nearly every rancher had one or more families of undocumented workers that worked for them. And that wasn't unique to that part of Texas.

From: DanaC
08-Feb-24
Well, heck Frank if you know where to look, you can find them on farms in Massachusetts. There's places I won't fish alone...

From: BowSniper
08-Feb-24

BowSniper's Link
BEG - The recent 8 million extra added by Biden are not gainfully employed (vast majority not legally employed) while awaiting asylum review. Different from those 10-20 million illegal immigrants who live and work in the semi-darkness of legality.

Figure what is must cost to feed, house, educate, and medically care for 8 million people (who can't legally work since their legality has yet to be adjudicated). Figure maybe $150 per day? That would be about $450 billion per year.

Here is a quick article I found discussing that figure.... but however you want to do the math, it's a crapload more than we can afford!

From: tobywon
08-Feb-24
You can fish with this guy, he likes to fish for suckers and I hear he's good at it. Apparently doesn't care for this country or the NYPD. Tell me its not wrong to release him. Close the border fully!! Stop blaming republicans for a crappy bill and take ownership of the problems this administration created. Biden can stop this immediately, but that would be admitting he was wrong.

From: tobywon
08-Feb-24

tobywon's embedded Photo
tobywon's embedded Photo

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24

bigeasygator's Link
Here is a quick article I found discussing that figure.... but however you want to do the math, it's a crapload more than we can afford!

That comes from a report from the Center for Immigration Studies. Hardly an unbiased source, and is completely detached from estimates made by institutions - like Cato and Brookings - who take a more reasonable and balanced approach to the cost of immigration. The number you're quoting is partisan trash.

From: BowSniper
08-Feb-24
BEG - fair enough. What number would YOU estimate to feed, house, transport, legal fees, provide medical care, and provide schooling for 8 million new immigrants pumped into the system since Biden took office?????

From: BowSniper
08-Feb-24

BowSniper's Link
BEG - the numbers coming from the Democrat leader of NYC are $394 per migrant per day for these new migrants.

From: 70lbDraw
08-Feb-24
“You're delusional if you think a wall will stop illegal immigration.”

BEG, if that’s true, why is it that Gov Abbot has succeeded in greatly reducing the immigrant influx by paying close attention to securing their portion of the border? He has managed to force people to head to NM, AZ, and CA, to make their crossing by making TX inaccessible. How do you explain that? Sure, a small percentage may succeed to cross, but the majority have been deterred. Tell me you have no fences or walls around your home since they are ineffective. Tell me you don’t lock your doors at night, since it’s simply a false sense of security.

On the other hand, put yourself in the position of a well intentioned migrant, that simply wants to bring his family here to achieve a better life. You come here because you feel as though you’ve been invited to share in the American dream. Yet when you arrive, you discover there is no plan, structure, management, or coordination, to assist you in your journey. Now you feel slighted by America. You feel you’ve been lied to, and now you’re caring for your family in the hot desert, wondering what your next move will be.

How pissed off are at the false promises that have been made? What are your chances of getting back on track after such a journey? How do you guarantee your displaced family’s safety and security?

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24
BEG, if that’s true, why is it that Gov Abbot has succeeded in greatly reducing the immigrant influx

Where I'm from, "greatly reducing" does not equal stopping all illegal immigration. It is other people that have suggested we should tolerate zero illegal immigrants and have said a wall is what will get us there. I disagree.

From: Beendare
08-Feb-24
My god: I posted a summary of the bill BY A DEMOCRAT….and you Dem excuse makers still cant do simple math.

#1 a small % actually goes to the border

#2) it locks in every future president to allow over a million destitute folks to come in no matter what.

It’s probably one of the stupidest pieces of legislation I’ve ever seen and EVERY Dem plus 4 Reps voted for it

From: spike78
08-Feb-24
Maybe when BEG is starving to death in the next 4-5 years he will wake the eff up. You do realize your people want to reduce emissions by reducing farms right? You libs will be on your death bed and still think you’re doing right.

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24
#1 a small % actually goes to the border

Purely a function of what is packaged up in the bill. Want to raise the percentage? Move the other stuff to a separate bill. Doesn’t change anything.

#2) it locks in every future president to allow over a million destitute folks to come in no matter what.

How so?

08-Feb-24
SMH. Jason, nonsensical is the only thing that describes you. Are you truly incapable of reasoning?

Yep. You are right. A wall won’t stop it. But, a wall will certainly make it manageable. Isn’t that what life is about?

I know you’d like to pick more tidbits so you can google paste a point that’s not the point. But, I’m not doing it.

Build a wall. While it’s not the end all. It’s the next step in controlling it. That’s simple common sense.

You really are a stupid individual.

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24
LOL you've gotta be one of the most insecure individuals I've come across on these forums, WVM.

Nonetheless, if the bar is now making it better, would any of these things make it better?

- Stricter asylum criteria

- Faster processing of asylum claims

- Giving border patrol agents the ability to automatically deport migrants at certain thresholds of border encounters

08-Feb-24
The bar is stop being a dumbass. Politicians as well as you. That’s impossible considering the sources and their motives. Nonetheless, it’s that achievement that everyone will agree as being the end goal.

FWIW, the best deterrent is building a wall that the whole world knows is being patrolled and enforced. Then we wouldn’t have to even deal with 99% of the illegals. Because they wouldn’t come.

I told you before that you were always playing catch up. You proved it once again.

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24
Way to not answer the questions. No surprise there.

08-Feb-24
I told you, I’m not playing dumb games with you. I didn’t read anything of your last post except the statement about deporting illegals. You simply have no validation in my eyes to read all, if any parts of your posts. So, most of the time, it’s just the painfully ignorant statements or reactions that catch my attention.

I started to tell you only an incredibly ignorant person would suggest supporting border patrol agents in immediate deporting illegals as an alternate option. Because common sense folks would assume that’s a given. And, wouldn’t consider one method without implementing the other. That would be blatantly ignorant.

From: RK
08-Feb-24
Yea BEGOOGLER

08-Feb-24
I almost typed this last post but didn’t. Then I decided too. I’m not truly asking for an answer. Just trying to make this as simple as possible.

Wouldn’t it be staggeringly costly to deport illegals without a wall? What are we going to do? Drive these people back home?

How in the world do you suggest an alternative of immediately deporting illegals, without a wall that makes reentry nearly impossible?

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24
You simply have no validation in my eyes to read all, if any parts of your posts. So, most of the time, it’s just the painfully ignorant statements or reactions that catch my attention.

So do you read them or not?

Because common sense folks would assume that’s a given

They don’t currently have that power, but would have under certain circumstances in the bill that Trump just killed. So you’re saying you do support that provision in the bill? That it would have made things more, in your words, “manageable?”

From: Mike E
08-Feb-24
HA,,,,,, funny stuff.

From: 70lbDraw
08-Feb-24
“Where I'm from, "greatly reducing" does not equal stopping all illegal immigration. It is other people that have suggested we should tolerate zero illegal immigrants and have said a wall is what will get us there. I disagree.”

You also said, “Way to not answer the questions. No surprise there.”

Nice deflection from the guy that normally thinks he’s got all the answers. No offense, it’s just my opinion…and you know what they say about opinions…!?

From: bigeasygator
08-Feb-24
Huh? I asked WVM three yes or no questions on border policy, none of them had anything to do with a wall, and none of which he initially answered.

From: 70lbDraw
09-Feb-24
“Huh?”

Lol!!! BEG, I’ll admit you make some thought provoking arguments,…right up until the time you don’t!

From: bigeasygator
09-Feb-24
Again, no clue how WVM not answering the three questions I asked him has anything to do with me deflecting on anything. Pretty sure I've shown a willingness to answer any question anyone asks of me and I'm happy to clarify my position which is essentially this: I'd much rather see a system that expedites processing (get rid of the backlog, deport the people that need deporting, get the people that are here to work into the workforce) of border crossers than one that aims to stop crossings.

To the extent that walls can facilitate this (ie, direct people to ports of entry and allow for more expedited processing), great. Frankly, there are much more sophisticated technologies to aid in deterring and detaining border crossers that I'd rather see us focus on than walls which have been shown to be easily defeated.

Edit: I'll add, if it isn't clear, that I think the killing of the border bill is entirely a political stunt to get Trump re-elected. The question to ask is does the bill make the situation better or worse at the border than it currently is. I struggle to see how anyone could argue that it makes the situation worse.

From: 4nolz@work
09-Feb-24
JHC get a room

From: Beendare
09-Feb-24
Seems to me the GOP saved us against another Porkapotamus

From: bigeasygator
09-Feb-24
How? There's now a stripped down bill focused just on aid that's nearly $100 bln that just passed a procedural vote in the Senate.

From: Beendare
10-Feb-24
How BEG, most GOP conservatives didn’t vote for it- thats how- but ALL of the Dems you continually defend did. A reminder of what was in that porkapotamus your chosen ones voted for;

This is according to Democrat Senator Patty Murray, Chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee; The $118.28 billion national security supplemental package includes:

Foreign Aid Commitments: $60.06 billion in support for Ukraine amidst Russian aggression $14.1 billion in security assistance for Israel $2.44 billion to address U.S. Central Command operations and conflict-related expenses in the Red Sea $10 billion in global humanitarian assistance $4.83 billion to support Indo-Pacific allies against Chinese encroachment $2.33 billion for displaced Ukrainians and other refugees worldwide Border Security and

Immigration Provisions: $20.23 billion for border operations, policy enforcement, and narcotics interdiction Introduction of the Fentanyl Eradication and Narcotics Deterrence (FEND) Off Fentanyl Act $400 million for the Nonprofit Security Grant Program Provisions for government intervention at varying thresholds of border encounters Work authorizations for illegal aliens PLUS-this legislation makes it law we have to let in millions every year- forever —— How anyone can continue to support policy from the hijacked Dem party is beyond me

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