CPW To Limit ALL Elk tags?
Elk
Here it comes. In the new 5yr BGSS plan the CPW has again decided not to take care of their residents and get rid of ALL OTC archery elk tags. Amazingly they even mention all the pushback from residents in the survey but basically just give a middle finger in the draft plan.
Here’s their weak excuse as to why
Not in stone yet but I don’t see this changing unless something drastic happens. Sadly I’m not surprised.
But the "good news" is they are going to reduce archery elk tags by 10% "initially", with more incremental reductions "over time". I see archery elk becoming a premium, multi-PP hunt in a few years, by design.
I like it. Now all units can be managed to a 75% Res/25% Non Res Quota, except for high demand units where that ratio is 80/20. (All for primary draw 1st choice).Let the rifle hunters deal with the high NR participation in otc units.
Why wouldn’t you make the rifle seasons draw as well? archery has to have a success rate less than half that of the rifle hunts. You make archery draw but leave the same unit OTC for gun. Makes no sense to me
I saw that too Lou. So ridiculous. Reduce archery tags which already don’t make a dent in population control compared to rifle seasons. WTF!
Ur communist leaders don't care about ur opinions. They will pick on archers first because they won't make the noise the rifle hunters will. We all need to stand together bow or gun hunters. Raise ur voice and fight.
I always hear residents complaining that 90% of the guys hunting OTC units are Nonresidents. So with the 75% to residents they can reduce tags massively and not impact residents. So archery elk will be a premium multi PP hunt for nonresidents but a 0 point hunt for residents.
"with the 75% to residents they can reduce tags massively and not impact residents. So archery elk will be a premium multi PP hunt for nonresidents but a 0 point hunt for residents."
Exactly! After all, I saw post after post on this website crying about overcrowding. You asked and cpw complied.
You think they are giving all the tags eliminated to the wolf population. Gettin ready for a big reduction in the elk herd just like Yellowstone..
If what happened in S.CO happens statewide, it will be a point-burning bonfire for a couple years. When deer went draw I used 8 points to hunt my spot, which some drew with second choice that year.
Yeah, definitely interested to see what will happen with preference points. Also notable, is they want to add an early archery mule deer season starting August 15.
All I know is I can tell you where NOT to apply in areas that were OTC and soon to be draw.
Are we really complaining? They had to do something….
Then add…who can’t see the writing on the wall with the wolf reintro and it severely cutting into the elk and deer populations…they pretty much have no choice.
In many ways the most important data to know is QUOTA. And the resultant number of hunters in each unit before and after they become limited. There are plenty of archery hunts where this change has already been made. In most of them the licenses require a minimum of ZERO points to draw, because the license quota is set very high. It's no secret that the CPW has a long history of maximizing sales, and therefore will set quotas as high as they can push it. Meaning the RES/NR issue is of little significance WRT crowding, and WRT the ability to draw your target hunt. None of this switching to limited archery is being done to manage for higher bull age or greater bull/cow ratio.
You'll still have point hoarders, but they'll continue to have little effect on the rest of us who want to actually hunt elk as often as possible. One potential benefit of a statewide draw for everyone is the possibility that it could make the existing 1-3 point units easier to draw and to draw more often. Because people will cast their eyes to other units, which start to seem more appealing since they're "draw units" now. Since people are forced to pick one hunt as their first choice, then the more options that exist, the more spread out they become, making for less applicants per hunt.
Sticksender, they stated they are planning to cut archery tags by 10% initially, with "incremental cuts" after that. If they truly do that with incremental cuts after that, demand will increase.
Their intent is to reduce bowhunting opportunity over time, not maximize it, because of bowhunters pushing elk onto the big ranch refuges where they are unavailable to rifle hunters , who are the real cash cows. Stated right there in the document.
Why are you guys complaining. OTC hunting is not sustainable. Rifle will be gone in the next five years also. The writing is on the wall. Idaho also has a bill out to end OTC for deer and elk.
I feel fortunate to have experienced the hay days of archery elk hunting in Colorado in the 80's and 90's. It's been a downward spiral since then, and isn't going to get better.
Orion, I agree OTC is not sustainable…. For nonresidents in uncapped numbers. But to takeaway the OTC benefit for the residents who reside, work, pay taxes and contribute to this economy is a slap in the face.
Lungshut I agree but I'd rather sacrifice OTC and have a more quality hunt
I take it you guys thought CPW would just whack the NR archery OTC. Me too.
^^^Orien, I believe we could have both if the CPW wasn’t so money motivated. There’s plenty of units that could be very quality low point hunts or even OTC hunts if we just simply limit the non-res traffic. If I’m a non-res paying $800+ for a tag I want a somewhat quality hunt. Not an $800.00 bow hike with lots of company. I know… wish in one hand, $hit in the other. The biggest problem I have with this decision is they just jump straight to limiting ALL archery elk tags. They don’t even try for a 5 yr period keeping OTC for residents. If it fails, then ok fine. Make the change to all draw but they clearly have an agenda that’s not for our benefit.
CPW quit making reasonable decisions years ago unfortunately. Now it's all about the money the one biggest reason they still haven't gotten rid of OTC 2nd and 3rd rifle elk tags.
This is long overdue. Not sure what the correct plan should be but here is no management plan when you have OTC areas. The resource is unsustainable especially after large winter kills like some areas experienced recently.
We need more wolves to balance the loss of hunters!!! It's time to limit the rifle hunters, the units with large elk herds are a circus during rifle seasons, totally out of control. When it comes to archery, well when residents that live in the area can't even draw a tag to hunt, something needs to be done. Archery does not hurt the animal population. I listen to this crap of archers chasing the elk down on private for the last 40 years and that is total BS. But you watch the wolves will do it, and no one is considering that. This has already taken place in the states to the north. Like the government passing law after law with no foresight, of the repercussions that will happen because of the new laws. Sometimes you are better off throwing all the laws out and starting over! Like bringing in the wolves, they say after a while everything will balance. Let's try that with our hunting, can't be worse than those proposals above!
I too experienced the fantastic 80's and 90's in the Colorado hunting seasons.....but as in many things in life like investing....It's important to look forward.
Co has to do something about the hoards of hunters and the hunting pressure. It's a boom to private ranches...but for everything else it's a negative.
I would guess it's not the best for private ranches either as there are more disinfranchised hunters in the woods that might be tempted to cross a fence.
I don't know a single man that thinks the OTC system in Co is a good thing for the wildlife.
The CDW is just going to have to ween themselves off of Non Res $$$$$$$ that is used to balance their budget.
Beendare, If comparing hunting to investing.... think I'd want to short it. :(
What part of "overcrowding" because of TOO MANY RIFLE HUNTERS DURING ARCHERY SEASON do they not understand? And reduction of elk herds because of TOO MANY RIFLE HUNTERS?
Iv'e been hunting in Colorado since 1974. Since then, I've seen the build up of elk herds and the start of the crash. Back then there was ONE general rifle elk season. Now there are FOUR. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what the problem is. Like many, I'm just glad I saw it when I did.
I'm assuming the 10% reduction in archery tags, plus incremental reductions after that, will be across the Board. So if money is a concern, why would they take a 10% cut in bowhunting revenue on top of losing all that NR OTC revenue?
This goes way deeper than just eliminating crowding. Looks like they are coming after elk bowhunting as an opportunity.
Oh don’t worry Lou. You can bet the farm they’ll be increasing res tag prices along with the cuts.
If members of the public are interested in providing a comment on the BGSS preliminary alternatives and staff recommendations, they are encouraged to either 1) submit a written comment to the Commission inbox (
[email protected]) to ensure their comments are included in the record and provided to the Commission or 2) sign up to provide a verbal comment at the upcoming March Commission meeting
I believe overcrowding in both archery and rifle seasons will drive MT to some of the same conclusions sooner than later, at least for bull elk hunting. Not so much for cow elk, we will soon have an unlimited statewide 6 month cow season.
Resident bowhunters want to complain about everything so this is what we get. Same thing will happen in Kansas.
Forest, Kansas is definitely in need of some changes. Walked my best property 3.5 miles of river bottom, hardwoods that extend to plum thickets and crp with crop fields. Not one Antler and not one buck on camera since December 27th.
Thats crazy. You think its the drought?
In 15-20 years you will be able to get an elk tag easy in Colorado, there just won’t be any elk to hunt.
Oh yeah... more public comments... just so the CPW can say they offered... and ignore.
^^^ My thought exactly Brad
"You can bet the farm they’ll be increasing res tag prices along with the cuts."
The "Future Generations Act" which Colorado Bowhunters help to pass in the legislature allows CPW to increase Res and Non Res hunting license fees every year by the CPI.
I forgot to say thank you.
It's a downhill slide. It's all fu%$ED up the way all of it is managed. The opportunity could be there for twice as many hunters we have now. We could have two archery seasons and basically open seasons from Sept 1 to Jan 31 or whenever and have more game left over than we now have. I've learnt in the last year or so that hunting only accounts for approximately 15-20% of most states game animal mortality. Thats dumb. Manage the other killers and double the opportunity and the revenue immediately. No overcrowding, no angry hunters for lack of game, you get the point....allow the hunters to actually manage the species not the coyotes, bears and lions amd now wolves.
Limiting resident bowhunters in any effort to solve herd number issues is silly. Resident bowhunters take 2500-3000 of the 40,000 elk harvested.
The truth is that as the resource (supply) shrinks, bowhunting is a great tool for managers. We pay the same for a license, they can issue 8 tags per harvestable elk vs only 4 tags for rifle, and each tag creates more recreation days.
But, we have been the re-headed step child for many years.
I don't like that they didn't start with only limiting NR. But, it could still work if they applied the 75/25 Resident/Non-resident split to second choices as well as first.
It's wrong to let non-residents have more than half the tags in some of the hunts like Colorado does.
If Trump wins we have a chance of getting this overturned
Little off topic but did they recommend changing the deer and elk archery season dates?
Forest, it's not drought. We've been thru many droughts and not lost this much deer density. It's definitely disease. CWD mainly. I've lived in KS all my life. Never seen the deer density this low.
I really wish they would ban baiting.
I wouldn't go as far to say its CWD. Our deer numbers aren't a fraction of what they used to be. I have yet to find anyone that has a good reason why our deer numbers aren't good. Similar to our turkeys. No answers
If you guys are successful in getting baiting banned in Kansas they will move rifle season into the middle of November. Watch!
Public comment; Ha! The public vote is what got Colorado Wolves.
Too bad there wasn't a way for the 'Public comment' to be ONLY from past Co and non res hunt license holders. Then they would get some quality advice from the public.
Resident bowhunters complaining about everything is why this happened.
It's just sad to see the state with the largest elk population going to pot, had too many great experiences here to not care! came here with the first moose stockings got to see them grow, got to hunt elk anywhere I wanted without having to draw permits, got to see my wife draw area 201 with zero points! Imagine that! Things are sure different now. But the woods and the elk still excite me, so I will be thankful for that.
“If Trump wins we have a chance of getting this overturned“
Just why Bou? Stop with the political BS on literally every thread.
“Little off topic but did they recommend changing the deer and elk archery season dates?“
No, they are leaning towards “status quo” on season dates Sep 2-30 with the exception of adding an additional early archery mule deer hunt in some areas beginning August 15. Again none of this is in stone but all in their “draft plan” for the 2025-29 BGSS.
I would be all about an early archery mule deer season!
They r goin to have to reduce tags when the wolves start rollin. Calarado is goin down hill fast. Hate to c it.
They r goin to have to reduce tags when the wolves start rollin. Calarado is goin down hill fast. Hate to c it.
The more I think about the public comment...the more it chaps my hide.
They will have every whackadoodle Starbucks Barista that just graduated out of UC Boulder with a gender studies degree trying to do away with Hunting.
Why aren't the folks at the CPW putting together some quality options? Where are the true habitat experts qualified to comment on this stuff?
Judging by the recent decisions the CPW made with wolves and such...the division has been politicized and infiltrated with anti hunting types....but I don't know for sure.
The Commission is being stacked with "animal rights professionals" and people with backgrounds in DEI , and the agenda is moving rapidly toward "compassionate conservation". Our new "Sportsmans Rep" is an outspoken opponent of the NAMWC, and wrote the wolf dumping plan. I graduated from Colorado State U, which had one of the top wildlife management programs in the country. Now it isn't offered. Our state wildlife situation is a hot mess.
“Resident bowhunters complaining about everything is why this happened.“
I dunno Forest, there’s certainly cause for alarm as relates to the overcrowding in OTC units. The CPW doesn’t have to take the overboard approach they are leaning toward by punishing residents but that’s exactly what’s happening. “Keep your mouth shut or we’ll show you who’s boss” is essentially the response and it’s wrong. We’re not fabricating an issue that doesn’t truly exist. I guess we should just head down mouth shut.
They had a survey with 5000 people selected and had multiple options archery and rifle , One was leave it as is which no way is going to happen,Caps etc. Glad they took my input. They'll get all that extra qualifying license and app fees. Must have been the popular choice!
They said it was the least popular option from all the surveys and input.
Then you need to vote them liberal woke people out of office. Once again there pissin down necks and claiming its it's raining...
I read most of the above posts, so maybe this has been mentioned. Going to an all draw and eliminating the OTC for the non-res. might actually increase the revenue.
As a non-res, purchasing otc you do NOT need to purchase a "qualifying " tag to the sum of about $100.00. So now take all those thousands of nonresidents who must now fork out the money to apply, compared to previously only having to pay for the license--- and multiply that times $100.00.
They might not be losing all that much?
That's why they chose it it's not rocket science! People in Denver aren't going to pay for wolf initiative. They should tax them like a stadium tax if they want them. Maybe then they wouldn't have voted for them...
In the next couple weeks there will be posts about NonRes complaining about having to buy the Qualifying Licenses instead of just getting an OTC license ;)
To bad for them that's been in place for over five years. Resdents too... They learned that from New Mexico...
To bad for them that's been in place for over five years. Resdents too... They learned that from New Mexico...
No. Anyone hunting OTC didn’t need a Qualifying License
Your correct but qualifying licences are old news. Hell you can spend 300.00 to 500.00 to play a 4 1/2 hr round of golf. If i spend 3 plus weeks chasin elk I'm good! And can shoot grouse with that license...
Your correct but qualifying licences are old news. Hell you can spend 300.00 to 500.00 to play a 4 1/2 hr round of golf. If i spend 3 plus weeks chasin elk I'm good! And can shoot grouse with that license...
Over crowded OTC units are because they keep closing OTC units. Every one talks about wanting to grow the sport of hunting untill they are hunting in your unit. Im a lifetime resident of Colorado. Over crowded hunting because of non residents has always been a reality. But i dont want it all for my self. How many generations of families have been coming here to elk hunt? Hom many Kids grew up here hunting with their family and now live in another state.
So many people moving here and wanting to close the door behind them. You see it with homes also.
Amen! I've probably spent $18000.00 in tags since 1983... gps has had a huge influence also with people being comfortable in the mtns. Don't have to navigate with map and compass...
When it comes to bowhunting, its best not to ask the CPW for anything or complain about anything. They are like a doctor who lops off a finger to cure a hangnail.
Forest, while less units certainly increases pressure in OTC units, the real reason that OTC units are over-crowded is because there's a lot of people that want to hunt elk OTC.
The truth of the matter here, is that they could have accomplished the dual results of what everyone wants here, which are: a) decreasing crowding and b) improving the herd quality. They could have accomplished this by simply putting all NR archery and rifle elk hunters on a draw and limiting the total NR hunters to significantly less than are currently hunting.
The problem is that they would lose millions of dollars, so their solution is for residents to lose OTC archery as well.
It blows my mind that they would change archery to a draw and not the rifle seasons, but it's for the reasons that Lou says. I hope and believe that Orion is correct and that OTC rifle tags will go away eventually too.
And as a bowhunter, I don't agree with the decision, even though I'm absolutely in favor of eliminating OTC elk hunting across the country because OTC hunting is not management, it's a free-for-all that results in an unnatural state of herd dynamics that causes poor hunting conditions and possibly disaffects the specie.
Then there's the issue of wolves: When they were introduced in ID/WY, it took a good decade before the wolves had reproduced to the point where they could really affect the herd sizes.
Wolves eat cows and their effect will be the same as cow tags. If the herd size decreases, which it most likely will, the tag numbers will need to go down or the hunting quality will plummet and it probably will anyways.
There's a reason that huge numbers of elk hunters no longer hunt elk in the large Idaho wilderness areas anymore. The elk numbers just don't support a quality hunt.
Ike - Our resident liberal will be by here momentarily with a peer reviewed study that debunks your anecdotal findings regarding Idaho wolves.
You know - you just look at the overall elk population from the past and present and come to the conclusion that “see wolves don’t hurt ungulate populations and I have the data to prove it - and it’s peer reviewed”. ;-)
It’s a shame what wolves did to the Idaho wilderness areas and also the panhandle of Idaho. There’s no short term recovery either.
I can't wait for the Kansas experts analysis. Curious if he will use wolves as his next excuse on why he never kills an elk
Ryan - I haven’t seen him posting much at all lately. Getting a little concerned that he may have gone over to Soccermoms place and inadvertently walked past the big No Tresspassing sign and soccermom shot him on site.
many of us knew it would eventually happen one day
i am a little confused. cdw own studies have shown that archery hunting has minimal impact on herd management. why then the reduction in archery tags? the math doesn't add up but the politics do.
Because the biggest voice in Colorado from the hunting community is saying that there are to many non resident archery hunters. Its to crowded.
Gdx:
When it comes to bowhunting, CPW has two answers. If we want something the answer is we aren't effective enough at managing herds to warrant getting nice things, be happy and grateful with what you have.
When they take stuff away, the answer is that we have too big an impact on the resource and must be restricted. Be happy that we didn't take more.
The possible elimination of archery OTC has nothing to do with herd management. It is hunter numbers management addressing the number 1 complaint.
