Mathews Inc.
Athens Archery closing
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
ILbowhntr 20-Mar-24
midwest 20-Mar-24
Boatman71 20-Mar-24
Woody 20-Mar-24
Will 20-Mar-24
HDE 20-Mar-24
Dale06 20-Mar-24
midwest 20-Mar-24
Mathewsphone 20-Mar-24
HDE 20-Mar-24
carcus 21-Mar-24
Bou'bound 21-Mar-24
APauls 21-Mar-24
HDE 21-Mar-24
APauls 21-Mar-24
SaddleReaper 21-Mar-24
carcus 21-Mar-24
HDE 21-Mar-24
x-man 21-Mar-24
midwest 21-Mar-24
APauls 22-Mar-24
SaddleReaper 22-Mar-24
jjs 22-Mar-24
jjs 22-Mar-24
milesgb17 22-Mar-24
Bowfreak 22-Mar-24
HDE 22-Mar-24
Ironbow 22-Mar-24
Starfire 26-Mar-24
From: ILbowhntr
20-Mar-24
Just read that Athens is closing its doors. Lawsuit with Bowtech over patent infringement for the cam tuning system.

Sad, but you can’t really blame Bowtech. Figure this is just the start. Not much left for companies to do for next years flagship bows that doesn’t step on someone’s patent.

From: midwest
20-Mar-24
Wow

From: Boatman71
20-Mar-24
It sucks for their employees and dedicated followers. They made a great product too! I am guessing there will be another company following in Athen's footsteps for the same thing. Only a guess on my part though.

From: Woody
20-Mar-24
Jennings was one of the top selling bows back in the 70's and 80's. He never paid Allen for the patent for the compound bow. He finally had to close up.

From: Will
20-Mar-24
Wow - Woody, hadn't thought of Jennings in years. Yeah, those were quite popular when I was getting into it. Sucks for Athens and their employees, they seemed like a nice bow.

From: HDE
20-Mar-24
"Not much left for companies to do for next years flagship bows that doesn’t step on someone’s patent."

Hoyt gets around that by branding it as either the best bow design to date or "game changer".

From: Dale06
20-Mar-24
Sounds like Athens management and legal staff have nobody to blame but themselves.

From: midwest
20-Mar-24

midwest's embedded Photo
midwest's embedded Photo

From: Mathewsphone
20-Mar-24
That's funny that bowtech sueing after being sued by Mathews and lossing over copying the cam wheels

From: HDE
20-Mar-24
Welp! Time to boycott Bowtech...

From: carcus
21-Mar-24
Shitty ,but i saw it coming, they should have just used some colored shims, its not hard to shim a bow, once and done, fuk! I wish they would have concentrated on making their bows a little quicker and not blatantly copied bowtech

From: Bou'bound
21-Mar-24
Man I don’t ever recall even hearing of that company

From: APauls
21-Mar-24
How would you feel if someone copies your patent? They exist for a reason. Mess with a bull you get the horns.

From: HDE
21-Mar-24
^^^ what makes you "think" a patent was copied?

From: APauls
21-Mar-24
Since you're asking here's why I would think it was copied.

1. Bowtech is an outwardly Christian company. Call me crazy but putting themselves out there like that I don't see them suing if it didn't break the patent. It just looks way too bad on you.

2. Buddy of mine (Carcus) knows these bows inside and out. Both Bowtechs and Athens. Have not talked to him at all about the subject, but knowing him and what he knows if he says (above) it seems like it is blatantly copied I can pretty much assume it looks like it was blatantly copied.

3. Athens rolls over and dies. You can cry "small guy" or whatever but they're not even fighting it. If they had immense confidence in their position would you close your doors over a legal issue? Highly highly doubt it. If your company is successful, legal battles are long drawn-out things that are treated as an expense. So it turns into a few thousand here a few thousand there month over month for an extended period of time. Those are the expenses to fight the battle. If you know you're right, that's the only expenses you have. That's where your financial problems end. If you know you're going to lose at the end of it, you've got to worry about the remuneration costs which is likely a large amount. One way or another this amount of money is obviously worth closing the doors over. If you know you'll win, I wouldn't anticipate folding and closing up shop. The effort spent building a viable business is simply too large to just roll over and die.

Obviously I don't KNOW what actually happened. But based on this logic, I would guess they are legally in the wrong.

From: SaddleReaper
21-Mar-24
The speculation surrounding this situation is expected and understandable since nobody here has all the details. It is also likely that nobody here has spent the time to thoroughly analyze BowTech's '806 patent claims and then compared them to each and every design element of the Athens Accu-Tune in order to formulate an informed and fact based opinion on the matter. That said I wouldn't expect a bunch of strangers to the situation to waste their time on a deep dive; it's not your problem.

Again... none of this is as cut and dried as it may seem from the outside looking in. Accu-Tune is not a "blatant copy" of DeadLock. And, quite frankly, if it was a blatant copy it would function the same and look the same, neither of which it does. But... how the current DeadLock cam system functions is not necessarily the most important consideration. What matters most is the specific language and construction contained in the Claims of '806. And right from the jump (independent) claim #1's language and construction should never have passed examination as it stood, due to prior art.

From: carcus
21-Mar-24
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxvATeWp6QMT4bGsurWWXD5bcIM4wsFXT3?si=Ym0QN9VbU7bQOZfz

From: HDE
21-Mar-24
APauls - you need to understand that in order for a patent to be legally infringed on, a certain percentage or amount of design has to match. Visual appearance does not constitute enough of that.

Bowtech is financially "superior" to Athens, and although they (Athens) could likely win , it would drain them financially. So instead of throwing good money away after bad, the decision was made to just call calf rope and move on.

The people at Athens, guarenteed are following their legal advice. Smart move.

I seriously doubt a company that has been around as long as Athens would steal a design hoping nobody was looking.

And, just because someone is Christian doesn't mean they will turn the other cheek and forego gain...

From: x-man
21-Mar-24
I'm not buying that. If Athens was in the right. They would not only win but, could counter with a defamation charge and recover their court costs.

From: midwest
21-Mar-24
Carcus' link...

From: APauls
22-Mar-24
HDE you asked me why I think so based on a total off-hand comment. I told you why I think so. I told you I knew hardly anything about the issue, but gave you my logic. Why I felt the need to respond I have no idea. That being said I stand by it. As a businessman myself I understand how difficult it is to create a business and I simply can not see how someone would fold up such an investment of time and money for a situation where they are in the right, and as X-Man states you would not only recover financially from but if you are in the right would likely end up gaining from. It simply doesn't make sense.

From: SaddleReaper
22-Mar-24
APauls, Carcus and company... (understandably so) it's hard to wrap your head around the decisions that were made, unless you are in their shoes with your backs against the wall financially speaking.

It could take an extraordinary amount of money to even defend your position and or make your case, and one camp has a near endless supply in comparison.

The patent litigation process is not quick either, so it can boil down to who can weather the financial strain over the period of litigation where a favorable outcome is not ever a guarantee. Even if you're right you still have to prove it. And if you're wrong in the end... well then you've dug yourself an even deeper hole.

BTW I'm not shooting from the hip here on any of this matter.

From: jjs
22-Mar-24
SaddleReaper, spot on.

From: jjs
22-Mar-24
SaddleReaper, spot on.

From: milesgb17
22-Mar-24
Too bad they couldn’t work out a deal where Athens would let Bowtech copy their limb setup so Bowtech wouldn’t be cracking limbs anymore. And call it even. lol

From: Bowfreak
22-Mar-24
It was inevitable that Bowtech was going to sue. Whether it actually infringes on the patent or not, no doubt Bowtech was going to protect what they believe is their design. Athens ownership made a stupid mistake releasing a design they knew would raise eyebrows without the funds to defend their own design. It may be different enough that they would have won in court but even their ads when they first were released looked like Bowtechs Deadlock ads.

From: HDE
22-Mar-24
x-man , please read SaddleReaper's post. He stated it very well.

From: Ironbow
22-Mar-24
Jennings didn’t pay their royalties to Allen, and despite all the reasons they had to not pay, it didn’t work for them in the end, even though they were one of the top manufacturers at the time. Eventually they sold out to Bear and a few years later they were gone.

From: Starfire
26-Mar-24
A patent is only as good as the money you have to defend it. A misconception about patents is that the government will enforce them. The only way to resolve it is with a lawyer. My guess is that Bowtech had to go after Athens or they set themself up to go against a bigger manufacture with deeper pockets. I am going to go out on a limb here and say this put Athens under they had more problems. usually a patent infringment suite is limited to the profits that were gained , which would only be a small part of the cost of manufacturing the bow and this technology was only around for a long time. In the case of Jennings the Patent infringement went on for years and they would not only owe penalties but interest and they where on theyre way out he door anyway.

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