Parenting Dilemma
General Topic
I’m not looking for a right or wrong answer here, but I’m curious on some input.
My son started shooting a bow at a fairly early age. At 10, he was legally able to hunt deer. In Nebraska, anyone can hunt with a crossbow, during archery season. I did not let him use a crossbow. After several failed attempts, he killed a small doe. He’s killed several deer since then. Along with several deer with a gun and muzzleloader.
Fast forward a few years. My daughter will be old enough to hunt. She has shot, but I don’t see her being able to hunt with a bow for several years. I’m not planning to let her use a crossbow, but she will probably still hunt some with a muzzleloader.
We were walking through the store the other day and I asked my son if we should buy his sister a crossbow. He quickly replied, “no, that is too easy!” While I’m somewhat proud of his answer, I’m afraid I may have taught him a hard bias, that I’m not sure is correct. It’s not like we only archery hunt.
What do you all believe is the correct balance between making a hunt hard enough for kids that they don’t think it’s a cakewalk, but also keeping them interested?
Let them kill Stuff. There’ll be a time in their lives when they move up the ladder. But, without success, they’ll lose interest. The balance is, seeing days without a chance, and then when they get the chance, them making it happen.
I’d say as a father you should Be ecstatic that she wants to hunt. And I’d do whatever means necessary to fan those flames.
Let her rifle/muzzleload hunt, but don’t let the lines be blurred between what archery season is all about. Your son is right - it is too easy for archery season and that’s what the other seasons are for! I remember setting with my dad on deer and Turkey hunts at 4-5 years old and started hunting myself at 6 which was the legal age in Missouri. Didn’t archery hunt until I was 14 and wouldn’t have changed it one bit. If I would’ve started with a crossbow in archery season and been led to think that was acceptable I might not have ever experienced true archery season. Kudos to your son!
So you think a crossbow is easier than a muzzelloader? Mind you, I am a dedicated bowhunter since 1956 & started several kids, Grandkids. I have ONE Grandson, 19 that is unable to ever bowhunt due to Dirt bike injury. He tried & tried & it is not possible due to the injury. 8 of us bowhunt & never biggame with any type firearm. No one has a problem with the crossbow.. I don't care for the "able bodied" adults using them only because they use them in archery season.. Anyway, she can't pull a hunting weight bow, so let her be out there, with you, enjoying some good times. In the meantime, let her shoot those weights she can until "she" is able.. Good luck...
ahunter76, I should have been clear, that I’m not opposed to those who can’t draw a bow using crossbows. I know, it seems hypocritical that we MZ and rifle hunt too. That’s where I’m struggling with this. Despite my feelings on able bodied adults and crossbows for archery, the weapon used is only a small portion of the archery experience. And I obviously want all the time afield I can have with her.
The question is not if a crossbow is easier than a muzzleloader. It's that it is easy compared to real bow. I am anti crossbow during archery season, at least able bodied people. I am ok with the medical exemption for crossbow if not abused.
As far as your daughter goes it y'all decision to do what you think is best. With that said a fair compromise IMO let her do it while she young and wants to hunt with you, that could change when she gets older and has other interest. Set an expectation that she works hard to get the strength and skill to hunt with a real bow in the next couple season or what ever is reasonable. As much as I am anti crossbow, I am very pro getting a kid out hunting as much as possible especially one that really wants to be going with you NOW. Won't hurt your son to know he/you can have principles and at the same time the world is not always black and white, there is room for a little gray.
Jeez let her use the crossbow.
have you asked her what she’d like to do?
I'd ask your daughter what she wants to do. If she's okay with it then go hunting life is to short. I can see how it may bother your son a bit but life isn't always fair and equal a hard yet valuable lesson in itself.
My problem with a crossbow is the special archery only season should not include crossbow , but for youth and special needs I say let them hunt .
I’d have my kids out in the woods as much as possible and if a crossbow makes that a reality then I’m good with it. She can get picky later if she wants.
I appreciate the input guys. I just read this article on the topic of kids and crossbows. It echoed a lot of what you all are saying. https://www.outdoorlife.com/hunting/crossbows-introduce-kids-hunting/
It’s definitely a personal call so there isn’t a right or wrong in this situation. My daughter is a ways off from being able to participate at only 3, but she’ll grow up with ONLY a bow in her hands. And only a recurve or longbow.
It is NOT hypocritical to muzzy and rifle hunt and still believe archery season should be with a vertical bow. Stick to what you believe.
This isn’t about dad or brother. It’s about sister.
Geezus swallow your pride and get the girl a crossbow.
I believe archery season is just as it states, "archery". I don't consider a crossbow archery although many call it that. There are plenty of other hunts available if so desired. I see no hypocrisy hunting other seasons with other weapons. Good luck with whatever you decide.
with all the negative influence kids are exposed to nowadays, whatever it takes as long as it is legal. get her what she wants to hunt with.
It's supposed to be as easy a possible for kids, right?
I have no issue with someone who can't physically shoot a bow using a crossbow. Unfortunately, that was the gateway to full inclusion which is the biggest detriment to modern bowhunting. Nothing has decreased bowhunter numbers as much or added as many nonbowhunters to the woods during what was bow season.
That ship has sailed, take your kid hunting if she's ready.
I've not read all the answers here but I think first job is to get kids in the woods field or on the lake. After that if she wants that challenge help her with some coaching. Personally I don't care what you kill a deer with be it a stick, a rock, or a hand grenade! A dead deer is a dead deer.
Ricky and cnelk have it right. I ask my kids how they want to hunt. I am there to help make it a great time. My kids really have no desire to hunt with a compound. It's a crossbow or rifle. And I am all for it. I have lived in Kansas my whole life and have never shot an antlered deer with a rifle or crossbow. But both of my boys have shot a buck with a crossbow and a rifle. And it's absolutely a blast for all of us.
Really tough personal and family choise, but I do not agree with KSRancher.
I’d let the kid hunt with a nuclear weapon if it would get them into the outdoors with a parent.
Let them hunt while they want. Impose additional limitations and they just might not hunt and develop the same passion you have. I don’t crossbow hunt, but I’ve used stick bows and compound.
So much is out there competing for our children’s time and attention. Make sure you’re focusing on the big picture.
By the time she's old enough to hunt with a vertical bow, she may have lost all interest in hunting. Better to gather memories while you can for sure. (And I say this has a recurve shooter with no interest in crossbows,or even compounds. I do gun hunt in season. And at 70 all to many of my friends are unable to draw a vertical bow.)
I'll add this I don't think a bow is often the best way to start a kid hunting. If they want to start with a bow more power to them. With that said young kids most of the time have a short attention span and I think a passion for hunting is more developed than born with. I think early hunts should be high percentage for success, somewhere they are likely to see critters soon and often. Also a quick clean kill if possible. First time shooting at something with a bow can go bad more often than with a rifle. A wounded unrecovered critter is not a good first experience. Hard to beat taking a kid out with .243 and shooting first thing that walks out inside 50 yards. Then up the skill level needed from there.
I’m ok with double standards..
If this is your worst "Parenting Dilemma", consider yourself a lucky father. Are you sure she even wants to hunt, or is it Daddy's desire more than hers? If she wants to hunt, set her up for the greatest chances of success with whatever weapon she can handle.
Agree with John MC. You gotta get them in the door first, I was a rifle guy for many years before I made the switch. Haven't gun hunted in 30 years. I think it would do ya good to let her get a couple notches with a gun, then up the challenge.
Mostly no crossbows here. My kids just bowhunted. They really just wanted their kids to bowhunt. A couple of my grandkids started with crossbows. In-laws wanted it to be easier. Probably didn’t hurt but I’d be happier if they just shot bows.
Agree with others. Let her hunt with what she wants if she wants to. She can make up her own mind about what she thinks about certain weapons for hunting for her when the time comes. I have more fun taking my kids hunting and watching them learn and grow than going on my own hunts.
Get her the xbow while she’s interested and let her kill stuff! Work twords gaining the strength for a vertical bow!
I know it’s a personal decision and I appreciate several different views, with some good points. Also, I should have said that this is not her first introduction to hunting. She’s been coming along on blood trails, since she could walk. She’s shot three turkeys with a shotgun, hammered the raccoons calling this winter, and loves trapping. If it means she wants to hunt with me, I’ll be a happy man, any weapon. Again, I appreciate the different viewpoints that I knew I’d get on bowsite. I like the idea of letting her make some decisions this summer, with some guidance.
What a great dilemma! Two kids wanting to hunt. Every hunters dream to see their kids wanting to hunt with them. You should be proud dad.
To bad no more Timex to chime in ;)
DL, I know I am lucky that my kids have some interest in the outdoors. They mostly like me now. I know they’ll be some years down the road when that’s not a he case.
Make it fun for her, whatever that looks like to her. Not to you. Not to your son. Her.
There is plenty of time to course correct in the future - so long as she keeps hunting. Lose her now and you may lose her forever.
I think people overestimate what it takes to kill a deer with. Modern light-weight compounds can fling an arrow capable of killing a deer with a very low draw weight. Get a double ladder stand and set her up on a trail to shoot a doe at 15 yards or less and with a heavy enough arrow, getting into the second lung is not tough.
That said, I agree with the general sentiment here of let her shoot whatever she wants.
ive only bow hunted with traditional bows for decades but if my daughter came to me today and said...
"dad...id really like to get back into bow hunting but id really like to try a crossbow and id like you to do it with me"
...wed be shopping for crossbows tomorrow.
in my opinion...not only do parents need to pick their battles...but they need to seize their opportunities.
You do realize that 99% of kids these days are glued to the phone or video games? I think a crossbow should be the least of your concerns.
All three of my children began shooting bows right away, however I don’t know that it’s a global right/wrong decision making process as just like everything, kids are all different. I’m not a crossbow fan, however if it’s something that will keep a kid involved versus walking away, I’m game. Good luck, and remember that the most important thing is to have fun and make positive memories together as life is too short.
I see no issue with kids hunting with scoped crossbows, but I would not tell them they are bowhunting and therefore bowhunters. They are crossbow hunters. Kids who hunt with a bow and arrow are bowhunters. There is a distinction and different participation ribbon.
For those that are against crossbows in archery season for able-bodied adults but for crossbows for children, at what age should there be a cut off? If OPs daughter says the only way she will hunt as a 25 year old is with a crossbow would you guys also support allowing her to use a crossbow then? What if it’s a 35 year old man? Nearly everyone on this site (for the most part) is an agreeance that crossbows aren’t archery equipment and don’t belong in archery seasons, so it’s odd to see so many supporting non-archery-equipment during archery season for certain able-bodied individuals. I’m assuming very very very few of you started with a crossbow - yet that doesn’t mean you stopped hunting or didn’t hunt before you could shoot one with an actual bow.
There are PLENTY of opportunities for kids to enjoy the outdoors and hunt without succumbing to the modern status quo of crossbow introduction. Like I said in my first post, I was in the field with my dad as young as 4 and remember sitting between his legs and watching him shoot a Jake behind my now house when I was 5. Around this same time I pretty much lived outside hunting squirrels, building forts with my cousins, rifle hunting for deer and shotgun hunting for turkeys, dove hunting in September and October, the list goes on and on and those activities continued up until I could actually bow hunt. I never once sat there and said “boy I sure would like to make memories with my dad in the outdoors but the only way I would be able to is if I was hunting with a crossbow in archery season” - because we made countless memories in other ways!
It seems as though the idea on here is that somehow if the OP doesn’t buy his daughter a crossbow she won’t end up being a hunter or that there will be less opportunity for memories to be made outdoors - nothing could be further from the truth. He also states that she WILL be hunting a lot, just not with a crossbow. He ALSO states that his daughter has never once mentioned wanting to hunt with a crossbow and instead has been shooting and preparing to hunt with other methods - and he simply asked his son if they should buy her one - to which his son said no because his son understands that the greater the challenge, the greater the reward.
boggs, i think the age for there to be a cut-off is 16. at that age a person should be able to draw a bow, whether it be a stickbow or vertical-held cross bow, and be effective killing big game. exceptions of course for those with a physical disability.
^^^ Yeah - thats all we need - more laws and restrictions
Your brain is not fully developed until you are 25 years old. I am not saying do not explain things to your son but I would not worry about it to much.
I would say do whatever is going to give you any extra time with your daughter. Be it crossbow, hiking, camping, walking, sports, talking. I have 2 daughters that are late 20's and early 30's. I worked like crazy to provide but didn't spend the time when they were growing up. I was a single dad and broke. One is in Tennessee the other in Boston I wish I could have that time back. I was blessed with another daughter who is now 13, I spend every minute she "allows" me to spend with her. I even watch all of her sports practices. Time is something no matter how much money you have, you cannot buy. Buy a good crossbow and let her have fun.
I am in the court of let her hunt with anything she can! I think getting them involved in some sort of hunting is the important think! If it's legal I say let her do it! Crossbows are heavy and not easy to hunt with! Get her a good used one from Ebay or something like that and let her do it!
Good Luck, God Bless and go make those memories!
BTW, I also hunt with a rifle and I do enjoy it, but not like bowhunting! I do it for more opportunity to be in the woods and put delicious game on the table!
This is my daughter, Grace, when she was 12. She started turkey hunting with me when she was 9. That's a crossbow that my buddy loaned me so Grace could try deer hunting. I ended up buying an Excalibur crossbow for her after she killed this buck and was so excited about it! Through high school, she was a 3 sport athlete - and though she was certainly strong enough to shoot a compound - her busy schedule made bow hunting and practicing with a bow difficult.
Fast forward 10 years to this past fall to her senior year of nursing school and Grace was going by herself and loving the quiet of the deer stand! I was there the evening she killed this buck and when I got to her, she was jumping around and dancing with excitement!
On the way home she was already asking about how many points she has in WY and what kind of bow should she buy to hunt with... I have not regretted buying that Excalibur crossbow for a single moment!!! Get your daughter out there with whatever she wants to hunt with! Pete
How many of you responding to this thread 1. Have kids 2. They still hunt with you 3. Have gotten others, besides your kids through hunters ed, taught marksmanship to and actually took hunting?
Just a random survey question
"If OPs daughter says the only way she will hunt as a 25 year old is with a crossbow would you guys also support allowing her to use a crossbow then?"
hell yes...absolutely without question.
if its legal...and she wants to hunt... she can use whatever legal weapon she chooses. especially with me...and id support her enthusiastically in any way i could.
now let me ask you a question. if your 25 year old daughter said she love to hunt with you but for whatever reason she would rather use a crossbow...are you going to tell her no?
He won’t be able to give an honest answer on that Ricky. I believe he himself is only 25.
So by the time He ever has a child that grows to the age of 25, he’ll be closer to 50, and his outlook on things will Be drastically different. As I’m sure you’re aware, we aren’t the same at 25 as we are at 30. Not the same at 30 as we are at 40.
Funny how life’s experiences change you as you age.
Able bodied persons should use a hand held and hand released vertical bow. Most often that involves years of practice on the range developing upper body strength and shooting abilities. Far too many people don’t want to put in the effort to do this.
This is not a dilemma, it is simply one of many choices a parent has to make.
DC , I can say yes to all three for the survey
I’m not sure he was being biased. I’m pretty certain he was speaking for himself and his sister.
He’s been there and done and better off for it. He was taught well that a crossbow isn’t a bow. And, doesn’t belong in bow season. If it wants its own season that runs concurrent that’s fine. But, it’s not a bow and shouldn’t be considered one for no disabled people.
I’m 51. I have a son that’s 25 and all he ever hunted with or shot is a compound bow. Maybe age 7-8 years old he was shooting. He couldn’t legally hunt until age 12. And I set up bow and arrow combo that would kill a deer. I also have a daughter, 22 years old, who doesn’t hunt. Just had no interest. If she did, I would have set her up with a compound and let her grow into it. It’s amazing how fast young muscles develop and can draw back 30-40lbs with ease.
I see no reason to let her hunt with a crossbow. None. Get her a lightweight compound and make it fun. Shoot balloons, soda cans, 3D shoots. Keep increasing the draw weight every couple weeks. Build a heavier arrow with a great COC BH and she’ll be fine AND appreciate the hard work, effort and FUN it was to learn to hunt with a compound.
Ricky, the OPs daughter didn’t tell him that and no one in the history of hunting has said “the ONLY hunting I’ll do is deer hunting with a crossbow.”
When I’m a parent of a 25 year old daughter - which is atleast 26 years away - if my daughter wants to hunt but can’t draw a bow and shoot accurately I’ll absolutely take her hunting anyway. Small game hunting, rifle hunting, shotgun hunting, etc. BUT my opinion (and previously the opinion of most on here) is that crossbows aren’t archery equipment and therefore I wouldn’t feel right to point my child towards using them in archery season despite them being legal in MO. Of course if she’s 25 it isn’t my decision anyway, but if she’s under 18 and I still have control I would absolutely tell her no.
I also wouldn’t let my kids “hunt” over a bait pile if that’s legal and they said that was the only way they’d hunt. Legality =\= righteousness and most parents don’t allow their children to do absolutely anything and everything that they legally can.
Again, there is absolutely zero situation in which someone would only want to hunt big game with a crossbow so your theoretical situation is silly. As I posted previously, there is limitless opportunity to make phenomenal memories in the outdoors with kids without bending your moral compass of using non-archery equipment in archery season just because it’s legally allowed.
Bowhunting isn’t for everyone, that’s okay and must be acknowledged. Bending the regulations and commonly accepted standard in order to try and make bowhunting for everyone isn’t a policy I subscribe to.
DC, although I don’t have kids, I’ve absolutely taken kids hunting many times starting when I was 16 or 17. As far as my age goes - James Madison was 25 when the Declaration of Independence was signed. Discounting someone’s opinions (after they were asked for their opinions) for being 25 isn’t a winning method. Most of you are old, gray, and senile but I don’t use that against ya ;)
Boggs you use a compound? It's perfectly legal in your state and mine to use a crossbow so nobody's "bending" regulations. As for the commonly accepted standard what's that even mean? Everyone's standards are different. Years ago the standard was a longbow or recurve. Then it was compounds of course the longbow/recurve guys think that's to easy.
I’d say if this even registers on your landscape of “parenting dilemmas,” you’re doing alright! Crossbow all the way, and twice on Sunday.
I do know hunters who only hunt with a scoped and cocked crossbow, no bow and no gun.
ha ha ha the life expectancy back then was a lot lower too. A 25 year old back then is like today’s 45 year old.
Careful though about the old and senile. Often times, we know a bit more than you give us credit for.
You’ll see. When you grow more, blossom More into a man. And the fact that you don’t have kids lends credibility to what I’m saying. You can’t speak accurately on this as far as what a father should do.
You’ll see. You’ll evolve. I’m Not saying you’re a bad kid. I’m saying, you’re gonna evolve. And for the better. We get better as we get older. Trust me, one day, I was you.
I had an uncle die a few years ago.
About a year before he died, he came clean to me. Why he chose me? I’ll never know. But, he was crying. Telling me his life’s regret has been always “being a hard ass cowboy”. His relationship with 3 of his 5 boys was trashed. He’d been such a prick to them their whole life’s and he had a, always my way or the high way, mentality, and it wasn’t just his kids it took a toll on. His marriage too.
But I always was moved by his confession 4 years ago. And I’ll Never forget his advice….stop Being such a hard ass
I use a compound and recurve - but if you’re going to compare a compound that requires a full draw cycle while the animal is in range to a 100% stored-energy weapon with a buttstock and riflescope, I don’t think that’s a winning argument for you… As I stated in the post above, what laws/regulations allow and what parents/individuals allow or deem righteous are two different things. Regulations have absolutely been bent in order to make bowhunting for more people, Missouri first allowed crossbows just a couple years ago. Do you think their main focus when allowing crossbow useage wasn’t to sell more tags/make it easier to hunt during archery season?
If the pro-crossbow argument is that hunters should promote getting as many people in the outdoors as much as possible then let’s be consistent and open up 4 month long general rifle seasons and do away with archery-specific seasons entirely since that would get the most people the most time opportunity in the outdoors. This of course sounds ridiculous to most folks and most would agree that the exclusivity of archery seasons must be protected. If this is true, then let’s protect it and in order to do so a hard line in the sand must be drawn. If it won’t be drawn in regulation it should be drawn in our own moral limits.
Boggs my point was that "commonly accepted practices" is a ever changing definition. As others have said you can declare you'd do X,Y, and Z with your daughter all day but until you actually have one you can't possibly know what you'd do or wouldn't do for them.
This is a person that was totally against technology killing what was a fingers on the string hunting and anti-baiting, but it has got to the point it doesn't matter any more, it is more important to get the kids out killing stuff than actually learning the hunt process, so let them kill with any means, the air gun is becoming legal in some states, lucky them.
DC, are you saying if a parent doesn’t push their kid to crossbow hunt in archery season they’ll trash their relationship with them and regret it on their deathbed? That’s quite a stretch… as far as a 25 year old in 1776 being a 45 year old in 2024, I couldn’t disagree more - a lower life expectancy doesn’t miraculously make humans mentally mature faster. As far as maturing as you age - absolutely. That being said, you can’t compare a 25 year old to a separate 45 year old and automatically assume the 45 year old is right on a subject because he’s older. Although all 45 year olds are more experienced than they are when THEY were 25, that doesn’t mean age equals overall wisdom. I know a few folks who were squad leaders in Afghanistan when they were much younger than 25, and a lot of folks that are 45 or older and have had relatively zero responsibility their entire lives… It is absolutely impossible to compare two peoples experiences, wisdom, etc based solely on their age whenever you know nothing about their lives.
Assuming that just because someone is 25 years old their stance is lesser than or holds less water than that of a 45 year old is a wildly prejudiced assumption.
I'm in agreement with you Boggs. Well spoken .. (I'll be 77 next month... age does not mandate wisdom)
No Boggs. I didn’t say a deathbed confession equates to using a crossbow.
But now that you’ve erroneously connected those dots, it shows once again, that your frontal lobe is still evolving. Perhaps you should go to school To expand your reading comprehension. And I assure you, the 45 year olds who have no responsibility that you know, Isn’t who you’re talking to here.
Like I said, fire away son and things you don’t know jack shit about. Eventually, your perspective will change.
I know that I truly feel like a horses ass when I look back and I was your age. But hey, I knew it all then. Just like you.
As far as the “get kids hunting at all costs” point of view, there has only been more hunters once in the history of the US, between 1970 and 1980, and hunters have never been younger. There’s a higher percentage of hunters in the 16-17 year old age bracket than the 55-64 year old age bracket according to the 2022 US Fish and Wildlife Service report.
Hunters have only been more numerous or younger than they are today once in the history of America, so the argument that we need young hunters at all costs because it’s a dying tradition couldn’t be further than the truth.
DConcrete, as far as insulting my reading comprehension, I’d encourage you to sign up for an ACT Test. If you score higher than a 34 on the reading section then your reading comprehension superiority claim will stand - this should be easy for you to accomplish since I was 17 when I took this test and you are much older and therefore much wiser.
You obviously had connected the dots yourself as you immediately followed my post regarding my lack of support for youth hunters using crossbows to an old man being a hard ass his whole life and destroying his family ties.
As I stated, assuming a 25 year old is less wise, less intelligent, or has an inferior stance on an issue than a 45 year old solely because of their age while refusing to compare the actual substance of their stance is a silly thing to do. Age does NOT equal intelligence. Just look at the average age of those in congress…. I know a lot of young’uns with a lot more common sense than them! You say “I assure you the 45 year olds with no responsibility aren’t who you’re talking to here” yet you assume that the 25 year old you are talking about is just another unwise 25 year old who has a discounted opinion because of his age.
Of all the potential rebuttals to my stances, throwing them out solely based on the fact that I’m 25 is the silliest route you could possibly take. Telling someone to “go back to school to improve their reading comprehension” and claiming they have an undeveloped frontal lobe solely based on their age is even sillier when you know nothing about them.
Even the OP said he doesn’t plan on actually taking his daughter crossbow hunting, yet since I agree with his plan and expanded my reasoning I’m the one with an “undeveloped frontal lobe” just because I’m 25? Cmon now… maybe when you’re older and wiser you’ll see that throwing out all opinions and stances of those younger than you is an ignorant thing to do…
This is an amazing thread…..
That’s all I have right now…..
Oooo what’s coming next homie? Bank statements? How about 1099’s? You gonna toss those out there? How about your capital gains too? Toss out your credit score?
I figure if you’re gonna toss test scores, show your whole ass for the world to see.
DC Concrete...
Yes to all three and now starting with my grandkids, if their friends parents are interested, I'll take them to with their parents along as well. We do that a couple of times a year with my buddies non-profit "Into The Wild Outdoors"
You’re right blood. It is.
I am gonna close with my final thoughts:
Unlike BOGGS, I believe hunting is dying.
If your chance to get your kiddos, out, and it happens to be during an archery season that the child can go, and a crosssbow in their best option, then I’d say do it.
Archery seasons tend to be warmer, and overall, more favorable conditions to stoke the flames of the passion.
I’ve never even shot a crossbow. But I do believe in the PROVISIONS for them.
Do I believe the way Kansas, Wyoming, or any other state lets them be a free for all? No. I don’t.
But I do believe in placing peoples feet on the first rung of the ladder. Eventually, You step away from those assisted steps, and move upward. Hence, PROVISIONS.
Original topic...... a decision for original poster and his family to make. Whatever feels right and gives them satisfaction, not for outsiders to decide..... surprised it was even asked unless just curiosity of what others thought.
Fish and game agencies disagree with the USDA and the forest service on hunters numbers increasing. Why? Because the USDA and forest service claims don’t support license sales.
“Oooo what’s coming next homie? Bank statements? How about 1099’s? You gonna toss those out there? How about your capital gains too? Toss out your credit score?”
In an interesting turn of events, a man who told someone to “go back to school to improve their reading comprehension” and told them they have an undeveloped frontal lobe asks for tax information after they prove their reading comprehension and objective intelligence levels…
If you think hunting is dying after reading the US Fish and Wildlife report regarding hunter numbers and demographics you might be the one with an undeveloped frontal lobe and horrible reading comprehension. Show me a state in which hunting license sales have decreased by a noticeable margin in the past few years relative to the amount of tags available, since hunting is dying this should be easy to find - just pick your state!
He’s right… there’s no hunters anymore, that’s why every trailhead is packed and point creep is at an all time high! I’ll never draw a sheep tag in my lifetime, OTC elk tags are nonexistent, and there’s never been less hunting land, but get out the crossbows, guys! That’s the only way kids will get outdoors!
You’re right, hunting is dying, but it’s not because of a lack of hunters. In fact, maybe the opposite. If a kid wants to start hunting, do you not see sky high lease prices that very few can afford, hunter density and game pressure on public land, or the inability to draw tags out west as a barrier to entry? All of those are immense barriers and they all exist solely because Hunter numbers are sky high and land access opportunities are decreasing. Their access to a crossbow is the least of their worries.
For future reference to all bowsite members - make sure and include your age in all of your posts that way DC can know whether your opinion is worth considering or not. If someone older then you disagrees then the only explanation is that you’re wrong, your reading comprehension is subpar, and your frontal lobe isn’t developed.
Little scenario for you Boggs. A 8 year old boy absolutely loves hunting with his dad. His dad takes him out on their states youth season(3days), general rifle season, even the holiday antlerless season. Sounds like plenty of course school, holiday celebrations, sports, etc. all cut into that. The father has a crossbow in the house because his dad died a few years ago and used it the last few years of his life (hunted with a longbow for 40 years). The son ask if they can take it out and hunt a few weekends of the 3 1/2 month season. Should that father say no because another grownman has a hang up about it? If that degrades the spirit of bowhunting tough luck it strengthens the tradition of hunting and I'm a hunter before I'm a bowhunter.
Push, I never said anyone should do anything based on the opinions of others - in fact I deeply believe the opposite - I simply stated my opinions. I wouldn’t change my mind if someone on the internet disagreed with me and I don’t expect anyone to change their minds because I disagree or agree with them. It is the parent’s opinion to do whatever they believe is right within the boundaries of legality - the OP asked for our opinions and I gave mine.
In general, your scenario of doing things in order to express sentimental value is a take I am much more supportive of than the typical “yes gets every kid in a treestand by whatever means necessary and make it as easy as possible for them” stance of most.
Personally, I’d be thrilled that my son wanted to uphold a sentimental family experience as family history and respect for your direct line ancestors means a lot to me. I’d 100% take my son out with the crossbow to experience hunting like his grandfather experienced hunting - though I’d do so during Missouri’s alternative methods season, not during archery season. I’d highly encourage him to go archery during archery season with archery equipment once he reaches the age and ability to do so.
Also, next time please include your age that way we know whether to take your post seriously or not ;)
"show me a state in which hunting license sales have decreased by a noticeable margin in the past few years relative to the amount of tags available, since hunting is dying this should be easy to find - just pick your state!"
what do you consider a noticeable margin?
"The Michigan Department of Natural Resources (DNR) reported deer hunting license sales were down from 871,865 in 1995 to 616,278 in 2020 — and that’s including a 5% participation bump from the pandemic last year. Holly Vaughn, the DNR’s Wildlife Division Public Outreach and Engagement Unit Manager, said they’re bracing for another hit in the near future.
“The Department anticipates that Michigan will likely lose over 100,000 hunters over the next decade,” she said."
I would not let her start with a compound, too easy. Archery hunting should be recurve and longbow only. No scent killers, no bait, no stands, release aids, fiber optic sights etc… Sarcasm of course. I hunt with compound and crossbow, much easier. Anyone that hunts with a compound and complains crossbows are too easy. Unbelievable.
Promising news for the future quality of hunting in Michigan! I’m pleasantly surprised. Beware, depending on the age of whoever reported that, their frontal lobe might not be developed and they might have reported false numbers though. Everyone who is younger than DC is wrong and since that article doesn’t include author’s age - it likely isn’t admissible data.
I would not let her start with a compound, too easy. Archery hunting should be recurve and longbow only. No scent killers, no bait, no stands, release aids, fiber optic sights etc… Sarcasm of course. I hunt with compound and crossbow, much easier. Anyone that hunts with a compound and complains crossbows are too easy. Unbelievable.
He's 8 and has a matthews genesis just dosen't have the strength or accuracy at range for me to let him hunt deer with it yet. He's got a few rabbits though. I also have his grandpa's last longbow and would love nothing more for him to hunt with it one day. But really I just wanna spend time with my boy and see him enjoy himself. 14 years ago I was firmly in your camp and fought against crossbow inclusion in Oklahoma. We lost that fight by a wide margin. The sky didn't fall I met a pretty woman and life goes on. Guess my perspective changed but like you said not a right and wrong answer just opinions and we're all entitled to one.
Boggs you might have already answered this but instead of re-reading your posts (there are a lot of them) I thought I'd just ask;
Are you saying if you had a daughter/son and they were under 18, and if the law in your state allowed crossbows to be used during/in the archery/bow season, and your kid asked to hunt that time period with a crossbow (which again lets assume is legal in your state) you would say no?
In Wisconsin, the "crossbow" season is a separate season from the "archery" season, although they do cover the same time periods. When Wisconsinites complain that "crossbows are in archery season" I don't believe that to be technically true. Now, if Wisconsin were to combine crossbow season with archery season and remove the separate crossbow season designation, then crossbows would "be in" archery season. Fun facts from Wisconsin. ;-)
Mapleman, it’s unbelievable to say that a weapon that is 100% energy-storing, doesn’t require a draw cycle with the animal in range, and has a buttstock, forestock, magnified scope, and trigger is significantly easier than a compound?
Fundamentally, the body dynamics of shooting a crossbow is identical to shooting a rifle and completely different than shooting a compound or recurve, whereas compound and recurve body dynamics are very similar and they both require draw cycles with the animal in range (or on its way in), both require the archer to hold some form of weight, and neither have a buttstock…
As we’ve learned, this argument holds zero weight because I’m 25 years old, but if I was old enough for my opinion to be considered then that’s the argument I’d make.
Yes, as a father and parent, I would guide my kid to use a compound. I would show the differences and why I would have them shoot a compound. And I’d enjoy even more time practicing, tuning, shooting, 3D shoots, upgrading bows, building arrows, learning together with a compound.
"...it’s unbelievable to say that a weapon that is 100% energy-storing, doesn’t require a draw cycle with the animal in range, and has a buttstock, forestock, magnified scope, and trigger is significantly easier than a compound?"
to me...its totally irrelevant which is easier. a compound is easier than a recurve or longbow...and a crossbow is easier than a compound...thats a no brainer. thats not the point. if you live in a state where they are all legal...like it or not... they are all available for you to choose from.
at the end of the day...if my daughter said she wanted to bowhunt...i would encourage her with any of the legal weapons she thought she wanted to use.
the fact that she wants to be out there is infinitely more important to me than what legal weapon she wants to carry.
Promote archery season as what it was supposed to be for, hunting with a vertical self drawn and shot bow. Do not buy her a xgun for archery season, promote the bow. Your son is right, and she will be better for it and realize that hunting is not just killing, it is the journey. I get tired of these xgun advocates trying to bash archery with using these things. They only belong in a gun season. Oh, they are legal, who cares, bla bla bla, they are not archery, get off it. Promote archery as it is. Oh, compounds arn't archery, Bla Bla Bla again, you still have to draw, hold, release in control to make the shot. Getting tired of xgunners staining the archery world.
I currently hunt with rifles, muzzleloaders, compounds and recurves. Because they are all fun. Why wouldn't I let a kid choose a weapon? Seems crazy to limit a kid IMO.
So, if you have an archery season that was originally set up for bows, arrows, drawn, held released, it should be ok to use a gun during that season? Why have seasons, limits on how many, what you can kill, when? Why have no fishing during spawning seasons of some fish? No rules, no limits, no effort for gain, right?
My advice, enjoy every minute with your daughter, get her that crossbow, share the smiles, you never about tomorrow. God Bless
“So, if you have an archery season that was originally set up for bows, arrows, drawn, held released, it should be ok to use a gun during that season? ”
you tell us…is that legal?
I'll say it... It's not only crazy to limit a kid, it's effing stupid. I also can't believe this is being debated. What's next? Kicking your kids out of the family because they drive a Ford? (this subject is just as dumb)
Lots of things for kids to hunt that aren’t quite old enough to shoot a compound efficiently. Squirrels, rabbits, all small game…, was how we were all raised. Why does that not apply now? Because as dads we skipped that step trying to get our kids hooked on hunting.
Ironically it’s the single most important step we could take to hook our kids on hunting versus hours of boredom waiting on a deer. Yet, we get junior ready to go set in a blind or shooting house to shoot a deer off sticks. Versus out sneaking around trying to get close to a squirrel.
I’m not here telling anyone when their kid should start killing deer. But, I’ve mentored quite a few kids, have my own, and several nephews and nieces. And this I’m telling from experience. If you make their hunting akin to a cattle auction at a weekend sell, then they won’t be life long hunters. They’ll tire from it instead.
They see us shoot our bows, exercise, prepare for big game. However, Very few have watched their dad skin squirrels or rabbits. And, those small game adventures is what plants and fertilizes a kid for a lifetime of hunting. Not killing a deer.
I'm going to encourage my son to play on the girl's basketball team. I want to make sure he gets hooked on playing basketball before he has to do something hard.
I'm joking obviously. This thread is dumb. Raise your kids the way you want, don't let other people tell you what they would do. My kids had bows in their hands from an early age and wanted nothing to do with anything other than a vertical bow. Doesn't mean that's right or wrong. Enjoy your time with your kids doing what they enjoy. That's the only right answer.
Yes, I agree, lets let the kids hunt the whole year with rifles, machine guns, anything. Lets set up pens for them to shoot animals so they do not have to tramp through the woods so they like hunting. LOL, that's the new world, right? Yes, unfortunately this thread got dumb. My poor poor kids, they were told if they want to bowhunt, then learn to shoot a bow and bowhunt. Always been pretty simple, fun and rewarding if you put the effort in. Not nowadays I guess, LOL. Have at it.
No 2 kids are the same. There is a fine line between making things too easy/too hard. Kids don't always equate killing with success, and if they do, they've learned it somewhere............................................... When my kids were young, success to me was them wanting to go again! Lots of parents in this day in time are making things too damn easy on kids and never letting them fail which is a disservice to the children. Do what YOU think is right for your kid, then live with it. If it works out, move forward with that decision, if not, reassess. I'm all about getting kids into the outdoors, but that doesn't mean we have to inflate their success. This is true in all aspects of raising children, not just the outdoors. You know your kids a Hell of a lot better than we do. Life is not a sprint, it's more like a marathon. Good luck!
I talk to my kids about failure. Its taken a while to get the lesson that failure can be a great thing. If they aren't failing, they aren't testing their potential. Of course its a balance, but too much fear of failing is one of the biggest things limiting people.
No, that doesnt mean an "F" in school is fine. I have one teen that hunts and one that doesn't. My son has taken a deer with a rifle and a deer with a longbow. Both fun hunts but he talks about the longbow deer a lot more. We spent 1 afternoon on the rifle hunt and 2 unsuccessful seasons bowhunting before he connected with his bow.
My daughter isn't interested in hunting but likes to shoot bows & guns and fish a bit. If she decides to try it, it may not be fair to the critters. She got the idea of stepping quietly with little instruction, spots critters before others do and is a natural shooter.
"Enjoy your time with your kids doing what they enjoy. That's the only right answer."
Amen!
Brotsky for the absolute win
There really is no other answer !
I'd let a youngster use a crossbow.
I'd let an oldster no longer capable of shooting a bow use a crossbow too.
I have a 12-year-old, who I've never met, coming to stay at my cabin with his dad this spring. I told the dad's friend, a frequent poster to this site, if the lad promises to enter it in P&Y, I'd do my best to make sure he kills a nice bear.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on crossbows. Whether its legal has nothing to do with it. Same as legality sets the minimum threshold for fair chase. Legal doesn’t make it fair chase for everybody. Most “bowhunters” I know invoke higher standards.
There legal so who cares, there kids let them, what is the difference same as a compound, you have no right to tell me what I can hunt with, etc BS only to make someone feel good about using a non-archery piece of equipment thinking they are still bowhunting. No problems for me with letting handicapped or older people hunt with them. But, healthy young people and say it is archery? No, it is BS. Before you completely destroy archery, this sport, tradition, way of life, jokingly pushing xguns for archery, you had better think. You would not be here on this sight discussing it if it was not for bow shooting and bow hunting. The same thing you are trying to make the past by promoting xguns and even trying to believe they are archery gear and belong in the archery season. Why do you think Pat does not have xguns all over this site? Why do you think he says he will not have them on here? IT IS A BOW SITE, that is why.
Go hunt with a crossbow where its legal. Have fun. Just don't call it bowhunting.
I have two kids now grown . Neither hunts but they are far from anti hunters. I am now a grandfather. I have been encouraged to take my grandkids hunting. I have a plan. I plan to load my back pack full of snacks and go squirrel hunting. We are almost sure to spot game in short order. After bagging a squirrel I plan to dig up some wild food . We will build a small fire and cook our harvest. If they talk a lot so be it. I want them to want to be with me. Who could expect more? Bob
For this being a bowsite, I am very surprised with the replies. It makes it easy to see why archery season is being overrun by superior weapons. There are plenty of opportunities for the young to participate in hunting without infringing on what the archery season was established for. Archery hunting is a process and never designed to be a "quick fix". For those of you saying, just get the kid hunting no matter what, i beg to differ. Bow hunters are losing the just of what bow hunting is all about. It can't be a challenge if you don't make it one. Anyone can put the target in the scope and hit it. Not everyone can draw, hold and put the arrow where it needs to be. Hell after starting archery hunting in 1975 it still challenges me every hunt, and thats why I keep doing it.
Is spearfishing with a spear gun, the same as bowfishing ? Life is so confusing these days people do not even know their gender.
"Bow hunters are losing the just of what bow hunting is all about."
Oh why don't you tell us what it's all about? If it's about the challenge then competing with crossbow hunter's should make it more challenging so better right?
"Is spearfishing with a spear gun, the same as bowfishing ?"
no...spearfishing with a spear gun is substantially harder. you dont have to dive to bowfish.
:)
Who here hunts archery only seasons exclusively with a hand drawn bow that shoots arrows ? Just curious is all.
You are right Push. Might just as well open it all to any weapon, Why bother with individual seasons? The challenge will be ever greater. I just stated my opinion, not parental advise.
Forgot to mention, I do with stickbows.
My then 12 year old daughter with a crossbow killed bear. Proud of her and memories we will have until our minds go. Let her hunt.
Nice bear and congratulations to both of you.
I don’t have kids but if I did even though I’ve never used a crossbow or even shot one if that is what it took to get my child out in the woods then I would get them one. I would also gently urge them to take up a hand held bow when age and strength requirements were met. I wouldn’t force it but thru education gently encourage it
"Who here hunts archery only seasons exclusively with a hand drawn bow that shoots arrows ? Just curious is all."
single string stuff for me.
having said that...if it ever got to the point where i no longer felt confident hunting with them...id switch to whatever i feel confident with...as long as its legal...and have zero issue with it.
nor do i have any issue whatsoever with anyone else using any legal weapon or method they choose.
Single stringer here also.
The question is not what is legal to use, it is that it should not have been made legal to use for archery only seasons. Archery seasons were made for one reason, to hunt with a bow and arrows self drawn and released. There is a reason they did not include xguns when they were starting these seasons. We should be trying to promote archery as we did in the past, not burry it.
I'm not sure. Frankly, in my state, seeing deer is a bigger thing than even getting a crack at one. So the bigger challenge with keeping a kid interested, is actually getting them into a spot where they can see deer. I'm ok with them having to wait to do something they want to do.
The bigger thing is helping them enjoy the outdoors. If xbow's are legal in your state and it feels like the best way to do that, cool.
Fun story about an acquaintance of mine. He has been getting his daughter (who is 12 or 13) ready to hunt for a few years, heading into this coming fall. Started with shooting a little fiberglass bow with wood arrows. Then a genesis or similar. He just got her a compound and her goal is 20 arrows a day so she can hunt this fall. He puts videos of her shooting up on his Facebook sometimes, and the kid is shooting great. if she's in a good spot this fall, I bet she gets a shot. Better than that though, she's spending time with her dad every day, talking while shooting. Maybe she gets a deer, but the process of getting to that chance will have been worth every second. However, it happens - enjoying the outdoors with kids is fun and has a lot of benefits - far more than just shooting game.
I’ll crossbow hunt with my girls this year just to take advantage of less pressured deer on our place and won’t lose on second of sleep over it. Just another opportunity for me to spend time with them in the woods.
Merriam, I don't know the correct answer but kudos to you for getting your kids outdoors and hunting.
Us hunters I think put too much emphasis on the wrong things when it comes to hunting animals. In my opinion animals wasn’t put on this earth on how we treat them in todays world of so called sport hunting.
Looking back I would have maybe taken a slightly different approach on how I introduced one of boys to hunting. He doesn’t really make fun of people too much on the styles of hunting I don’t believe so in that regard maybe I did alright but maybe I took it too serious and hard. I do believe with what was said above…with age comes a different view on things.
I know some of you thought/think this thread is stupid. I have to say, I did pick a stupid thread title. To be clear, I'm not asking for the answer on how to raise my kids. In the end, my wife and I will do whatever we think is best for them. With that said, as parents, we never have all of the answers. Sometimes I feels that parents need a "check" from an outside source to help guide things. Despite some negativity in my post, I didn't want it to become a crossbow bashing or a "this is real hunting and this isn't argument". I am seeing that there is a lot of value in the struggle of bowhunting. Everyone has to find that balance between the highs and lows of it.
I've had a lot of direct messages with positive words. Thank you. Sometimes the struggle works out. My son's turkey permit is valid for any legal weapon for the season. We didn't get birds to cooperate during archery season. I asked him several times if he wanted to use the shotgun. He stuck with his bow. Yesterday, we tried setting up on some birds, but were in too close to set up the blind. Things came together and he killed a tom at 7 yards, without a blind. It was an awesome evening! Thank you for all of your input. Enjoy your time with family!
Congrats that is a massive achievement for any archer. Wow.
Congratulations to you and your boy Merriam!
Beautiful outcome and bird. Congratulations.
Dang Merriam - congrats to the boy - that's amazing! Well done kiddo! (And his family for getting him out there!)
Thanks WV. I really appreciate that, man. Seriously, I was really happy seeing your comment. Keep well.
Great picture, smile says it all....congrates to both of you.
I think the thread exhibited exactly the perfect outcome. Your boy chose his path. And you both worked hard enough to see that through. Perfect.
Hell of a feat for your boy, congrats to him. I will be out with my single string in a couple weeks.
This subject is from reading -parents decision to allow his daughter to use a crossbow.I am a product of a family that believes in ourselves and do not behave by what others think.I am also blessed to have lived in rural America with out the pressure of folks that know better and dictate our lifestyle. Chess has taught me and my family to ALWAYS have options and backup plans for everything in life .My children started hunting with slingshots,pellet guns,rifles,crossbows,vertical bows, pistols.Each was taught the easy and the hard way and at the same time their responsibilities to the respect of all living animals in the forests. God has given them the natural ability to understand the pride in oneself in doing the right things in life to be happy in their bodies and mind.Chess just teaches them there are always other options in life.We hunt/fish/garden/butcher/ can/ home school/make our own medicine/make clothes,shoes /make bows-arrows-bullets-powder- forge-weld-purify water-shelter above and below ground-generated electricity and learn to store it- mason-electric-carpentry-and the list goes on and on. This was for both boys and girls .Any government is solely dedicated to self preservation at any cost including it’s own people and are opposed to people like my family.Too many people choose the easy way with others doing Their work for them.Some are waking up to the SYSTEM-school,food and water sources,medical,housing,etc. The world is getting smaller and smaller as far as infringements from government and technology running one’s life so I understand the concern of many.I do not understand the idea of money and social recognition having anything to do with happiness with people that are not liked minded as you. Both my son and daughter have decided to come back to this rural area after seeing that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side .They both feel that they are outsiders and many look down on them for their self sufficient lifestyle.The son is worried because his children could be removed because of the things this country were founded on.Scary stuff coming as I believe this government and others are on their last legs and are pushing for total control because they know better —than the system they themselves created. My granddaughter will be hunting deer this year with a crossbow mounted on a monopod at the age of 10.She will be fine as she also shoots stickbow but realizes she is not able to take a deer humanly so chess has taught her of other options and her pride and ambitions plus work ethic with the help thru GOD and family. I say let them hunt young ,often,and with whatever works for them.Do not teach them only one way teach them all the ways.Teach them to strive and push forward and to be proud of their achievements to do it for themselves.No free anything in life- No trophy for everyone-no opinions from others/ just teach them options and the pride in themselves to achieve their goals which are instilled by the parents. I think chess teaches you to look forward for situations so you can keep yourself moving forward as long as possible.The more one plays the more one gains confidence in oneself which carries over in life also. GOD bless all
I have a daughter and she will be shooting a crossbow until she can pull a compound. I just want her in the woods.
I control the hunt side of things, the weapon is irrelevant. I want my kid to struggle and learn the woods and how to kill.
It’s hard to nock the crossbow and think it’s great to shoot a vertical bow in a box over a food plot. There’s nothing wrong with that but the process for me is the most important thing to teach.
