Mathews Inc.
To collar or not to collar???
Equipment
Contributors to this thread:
Husker 05-May-24
Blood 05-May-24
Corax_latrans 05-May-24
wv_bowhunter 05-May-24
Muleysareking 05-May-24
Husker 05-May-24
wyobullshooter 05-May-24
Willieboat 05-May-24
butcherboy 05-May-24
ND String Puller 05-May-24
Corax_latrans 06-May-24
Jethro 06-May-24
MIKE 06-May-24
Blood 06-May-24
Michael 06-May-24
Matt 06-May-24
Husker 06-May-24
Corax_latrans 06-May-24
WV Mountaineer 06-May-24
Ziek 06-May-24
GFL 06-May-24
GFL 06-May-24
bowelk65 06-May-24
Coondog 06-May-24
Scoot 06-May-24
Corax_latrans 06-May-24
Coondog 07-May-24
GFL 07-May-24
Coondog 07-May-24
Blood 07-May-24
Bowfreak 07-May-24
Blood 07-May-24
Corax_latrans 08-May-24
From: Husker
05-May-24
I just got my first set of 5mm Axis arrows and am wondering if i need to use a collar over the end of the shaft with the HIT insert or not. What are your experiences???

From: Blood
05-May-24
What do you want the collar to do? That’s a serious question. Are you looking for more weight up front or do you want something that will really protect your arrow from a hard impact?

05-May-24
JMO, if you occasionally hit Hard Things, the more you can up-armor your arrow, the better. I have yet to find an arrow that’s more durable than I need it to be, so I usually put on an inch and a half of 2117…or 2216 or 2219, depending on the shaft I’m footing…. I guess that counts as a “collar”…..

From: wv_bowhunter
05-May-24
I only use the broadhead adapter rings on mine without any issues. However I am only using them on whitetail. Hunting bigger game, I’d probably use a collar for peace of mind.

05-May-24
I rough up the shaft and epoxy on 3/4" of a 2016 aluminum shaft as reinforcement and taper the rear edge of it. It really helps keep judos from ruining the ends of the shafts when you hit a lot of knots or rocks while stump shooting. It certainly doesn't hurt anything, especially trad.........Mike

From: Husker
05-May-24
Blood, I'm not looking for more weight, just wondering if i need more protection for the end of the arrow.

05-May-24
Collars can’t hurt, but I’ve killed several elk using 5mm Axis without them and have had zero issues.

From: Willieboat
05-May-24
I have had a couple broad heads collapse out through the side of the shaft on hard hits. Have used some type of collar or aluminum footer since those first couple incidents and won’t do it any other way now.

From: butcherboy
05-May-24
I don’t use them and probably never will. I shoot axis 340’s and fmj 340’s. If you hit something really hard like a rock or a piece of rebar in a target that collar isn’t going to help much. I don’t stump shoot though. I lose more arrows from a miss than destroying the end of the arrow from a hard impact. If you feel like you need them then go for it. Easton came out with some collars that aren’t very heavy made specifically for 5mm and 4mm.

05-May-24

ND String Puller's embedded Photo
ND String Puller's embedded Photo
ND String Puller's embedded Photo
ND String Puller's embedded Photo
I made some for my Daughter’s Axis 500’s, Lancaster sells arrows individually if you’re interested. I beveled the end with a case chamfer tool for reloading, to make pulling from bag targets easier.

06-May-24

From: Jethro
06-May-24
String Puller, and others, Lancaster no longer sells shafts individually. I just found that out couple weeks ago.

From: MIKE
06-May-24
One negative about collars, is they make arrow removal a bit tougher. They hang up a little bit in bag targets. If I use them again, I’d put them in a drill to spin them and try to bevel the back end.

From: Blood
06-May-24
Ok. There really isn’t a collar only that will help you protect your arrow. You’ll need to build a system - insert with a collar that will add structural support. This adds weight. But you’ll have much better FOC.

So if you want to beef up your arrow setup and protect it from hard impacts - dirt, bone, rocks, rebar, etc. Don’t expect a collar - like an IW - will do anything to help you save your arrow. There’s 1 or 2 options out there that really improve the chance your carbon will survive hard impacts.

From: Michael
06-May-24
I have used the 5 mm Axis for the past 7 years. On deer size game I have shot 19 animals with 4 being hard hits. Every one of the hard hits the shaft snapped. All the shafts snapped well behind where a collar would have been. I don’t use collars or broad head adapters. Would a collar prevented the arrow from snapping? It’s hard to say.

From: Matt
06-May-24
I use the 10 gr. IW Ti collars for a little added peace of mind. Frankly I have never had a situation before or after I started using them where I believe they would have made a difference.

From: Husker
06-May-24
Thanks for all the replies! I'll shoot some both ways and see what i like the best.

06-May-24
“ Would a collar prevented the arrow from snapping? It’s hard to say.”

No, it isn’t. I’m gonna go out on a 10-inch limb here and say that a collar WILL NOT prevent your shaft from snapping; only from mushrooming. That’s what they are designed to do.

Makes me wonder if anyone has EVER mushroomed a shaft on bone, though. I kinda doubt it, honestly, but I suppose it’s possible, given hard enough bone and enough poundage. AltitudeSick might have managed it in some of his destructive testing, but he was shooting into bone unimpeded by contact with muscle or hide, so his impact forces might be exaggerated a bit….

I have mushroomed a crapload of shafts shooting aluminum arrows tipped with Judos into something like a 4X4, or un-footed carbons into rocks….. Occasionally I will see a carbon break off right behind the footing…. But the shaft still broke due to LATERAL flexion.

06-May-24
Willieboat x2. If I’m shooting a carbon arrow, it’s going to be footed or collared. No exceptions.

From: Ziek
06-May-24
Since I started shooting FMJ shafts 13 years ago, mine are footed just like SD String Puller's. This works better than collars. First; it adds radial strength like a collar to keep the tip from mushrooming the shaft if the insert glue bond fails. Second; also like a collar, it gives a thicker bearing surface for the tip. Third; better than a collar though, it greatly increases the glue bond area over just that provided by the insert, so the combined glue bond is much less likely to fail. My footing weighs 16 gr. giving a bit more FOC, which I also like.

From: GFL
06-May-24
Collars for all my hunting arrows. Glue in field points that weigh the same for target arrows.

From: GFL
06-May-24
Collars for all my hunting arrows. Glue in field points that weigh the same for target arrows.

From: bowelk65
06-May-24
String Puller X 2 ben doing it for 10 years love it on elk and moose. I like the orange Al. shaft looks cool.

From: Coondog
06-May-24

Coondog's embedded Photo
Coondog's embedded Photo
A collar will still mushroom your arrow. However, instead of the arrow breaking in front of the HIT or broadhead/HIT blowing out the sides, it will still remain in position and hopefully still blow through an animal.

From: Scoot
06-May-24
Coondog- was that from hitting an animal or something like a rock?

06-May-24
What Scoot said/asked.

And FWIW, if you use FPs the same diameter as the OD of the collar, I don’t think that kind of a mushroom would be physically possible.

I honestly can’t imagine how you got it to do that….

From: Coondog
07-May-24
Hit the rebar spine in the Rinehart caribou target at 115 yards (yes at that distance my set up still has that kind of KE… imagine it at 20 yards). Iron Will collar with the matching Iron Will field point. I have seen it happen more than once with their components.

From: GFL
07-May-24
Let me know what works for hitting rebar. I can never seem to get a pass through killing rebar.

From: Coondog
07-May-24
Working on it. Definitely are better systems than Iron Will out there. *gasp*

From: Blood
07-May-24
GFL there is one system that is really superior for that. I’ve found it to survive cement and rocks too. And if anyone else is sick and tired of arrows getting destroyed on stuff like this… You should start tinkering.

And, there are some arrows out there that are really not good. So once you find a system from insert to carbon, you’ll be really confident.

From: Bowfreak
07-May-24
I have tried and really wanted to like 5 mm arrows but just can’t get past the inserts. I don’t shoot well enough to see any accuracy gains that might be experienced from a smaller diameter shaft and I have never had any penetration or integrity issues with my .246 internal components shafts.

From: Blood
07-May-24
Arrows can do weird things when they hit an animal. Minimize the chance things go sideways - literally - by having a system that will drive your arrow in one piece through anything you hit. A collar is only a small piece of the puzzle.

08-May-24
“Let me know what works for hitting rebar.”

Unfortunately, they don’t appear to offer “backbones” made of anything else in the larger 3Ds, so if you shoot them often (and are only occasionally Perfect), you’ll hit rebar from time to time.

So it IS nice to be a bit bomb-proofed….

@Coondog — so did that Iron Will collar get mushroomed as well as the shaft? The bond between shaft & collar must’ve been better than between shaft & insert, maybe?? Still can’t get my head around the idea of the shaft squeezing through the gap like that….. Crazy.

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