The party of tolerance and inclusion, once again shows their true colors. DEMONcrats, pure evil intentions. From the 'journalists', talk show hosts, celebritards, to BLM, and antifa, all they do is incite and execute violence. But the mindless drones will still beat the drum for them.
Truly sad. Pics seem to indicate a shotgun wound, but who knows. I just watched a video, and nobody seems to know where the shots came from, not even the secret service or anyone in the crowd. This is fckd up.
Listening to CBS news. SS seemed to have rushed someone and corralled them or a group. Trump got lucky. Hope he is all good and no one else got hit it that spray and pray fiasco.
“I just watched a video, and nobody seems to know where the shots came from, not even the secret service or anyone in the crowd”
Someone did it seems. Like Zbone, sounds a lot like three shots from the shooter and then he gets a response from LE/SS. If you listen to the audio you can hear them call “shooter down” before they move Trump.
Shooter was to the left of the stage and trump had turned left when he was grazed, couple of inches to the right and he would’ve been ragdolled. CBS confirmed that shooter was “neutralized”, and from the sounds of the video it sounds like he was “well ventilated” by the Secret Service.
Did you listen to the audio? Definitely not a shotgun. And shots sound like they were taken from some distance.
The incitement for violence from the political left, including the media, is the root cause. Keep pushing. FAFO. Biden needs to denounce this bs immediately... tonight!
“The ballistics knowledge on this site is fantastic.”
I listened to audio a number of times. You can hear the supersonic crack of the bullets followed by the muzzle blasts from the shooters gun three times (they don’t sound big, my guess is a small caliber, maybe even rimfire?). Then you hear the responses which have a different sound character (sounds like suppressed shots and all the response team seems to be running suppressed weapons). That’s what I hear. I could easily be wrong. Just speculating.
Something tells me this ain’t your angry liberal and more like a JFK part2 but who knows. Be interesting considering the Secret Service is run by the Biden administration. This will be one for the history books.
Calling it now, the democrat elites are gonna smoke Biden and say “A MAGA Extremist has retaliated again the attack on Trump” and spin the narrative back towards the right being the aggressive party.
Tragic for the family of the attendee. Facts are always fuzzy in the immediate aftermath of something like this. Can't draw too many conclusions until some better information is known.
If this is referring to the shooter, I'm absolutely disgusted by your post. If so, there's no place in any forum for you, and you are as evil as the shooter. I hope I've misinterpreted your post.
Soccer- you are a POS for saying something like that. Like Trump or not...he's risking a lot...even his life apparently for the love of his country. He deserves respect for that even if you hate him. What a DB.
When liberalism and unhinged wokeness is left to run unchecked, and your unable to beat him in the courts, in the ballot box, and your only way of defeating him is an assassination attempt, you already lost. And this further united people behind trump. Thankfully he is fine, and as a country we lost an innocent life for merely attending a peaceful rally. Thoughts go out to that family.
"Butler County District Attorney Richard Goldinger said he was told by his chief detective that the shooter was on a building adjacent to the property and had no additional details on the person.
“It would have required a rifle,” he said. “It was several hundred yards.”"
nick nick, I have no words to describe you or your post that would be fit to put on this site. If there are any admins that actually monitor this site you should be locked out.
What does anyone expect when the media along with other liberal dem douches spend their time trying to get everyone to hate the guy and make people believe that if Trump wins in November life is over as we all know it. Just read the threads on this forum, anytime anyone mentions anything not positive about biden/dem/liderals the same handful of douches get into an emotional childish ranting frenzy with all their "but trump this but trump that" bs imo these people aren't quite right in the head either, and even if they are as emotionally unhinged as they get just in their postings I wouldn't trust any of them to not snap either. Sad situation. Glad Trump is OK. Trump is a fighter, and he is a fighter for this country. Trump2024!!!!
My thoughts and prayers lie with the family of the attendee who was killed; someone who showed up to support a candidate they believed in has had their life tragically ended.
Whether the village idiot cares about this or not that's my focus; when I read some comments along the lines of those above, it only serves as a sad reminder of how morally bankrupt some are; they're to be pitied and are best ignored.
Soccer, the only similarity in J6 and this is the fact that conservatives died on both days (Ashley Babbitt and the unnamed spectator that was killed today). You’re insane and your family probably hates being around you if you’re so miserable that you’d say something like that, if they don’t they should. If Pat and Co didn’t love the engagement (and mainly the money that stems) from political engagement on here they’d ban you for quite literally calling an attempted assassin a hero.
P.S. the only thing they assassinated was Biden’s chances of re-election.
Soccer, you obviously don’t understand the ruling of the SCOTUS. If Biden were to do something like that, which he didn’t, it would Not be an act as a POTUS in the office he is officiating in. I call for a complete and official banning of soccer23ny! What say you Pat?
Makes you wonder how someone pulled up to that building took out a ladder walked up to the building climbed up and laid his dark colored ass on a white roof without being seen?
Spike, someone did, and reported to LE. He watched him crawl unto position with a "long rifle". Nothing was done until after he started shooting. Whatever happened to clearing rooftops? That's Protection 101
It's being reported that an eyewitness watched the shooter crawl into position on a building rooftop and reported it to police, but nothing was done until the shooting started.
Incomprehensible that LE or SS would hesitate when informed of an armed person on a roof. The only thing I can think of is local LE maybe thinking its possibly SS counter sniper and that caused some delay.
Good to see soccermom has kicked her last ball. As the article stated, a counter sniper team should’ve been focused on an elevated rooftop enough to scan the area every few minutes at the very least. Insane. Isn’t the first time there’s been a sketchy assassination (or attempt) on a president. DNC knew they’d have to run someone other than Biden and knew they’d have to off Trump to even the playing field between two new candidates. As stated above, they’re now gonna off Biden and blame it on a “MAGA Extremist getting revenge”
Secret Service has confirmed 2 dead, one of which was the shooter. Sounds like at least one other person is in critical condition.
Now the usual gun grabbers will go nuts. I'll be the first to say it. "you don't take away the rights of others because some idiots abuse those rights." Applies to 2nd Amendment and all others in the Bill of Rights.
The Federalist reports that numerous request have been made to increase secret service presence for Trump due to credible threats. DHS has denied. Dan Bongino says that the top gal at the secret service is directly responsible and is calling for her resignation.
Those snipers backed off of their gun stocks under fire!” Looked more like repositioning to me tbh. Who knows what they were looking at when the shots came.
BEG. That's what I thought also. Just repositioning
Just saw a picture showing the bullet in midair and crazy part is Trump is alive because he turned his head at the exact time bullet was coming at him. No doubt this was an inside job you’re telling me a rooftop 150 yards directly in-line was not guarded? Alex Jones just said they will try and poison him next.
ZBone I have my money on a foreign National that came into this country and paid by the government and they said don’t worry you will be ok here’s your gun. Probably in another country’s military at one point.
After having been in the room with Trump at a ribbon cutting ceremony it’s hard to believe that there was a rooftop within shooting distance that wasn’t guarded. Unbelievable the firepower they bring to town when a pres shows up
The reports of a person trying for over two minutes to get the attention of the Secret Service that there is a guy bear crawling with a rifle across the roof is disturbing.
The video of the counter snipers not doing anything and then flinching once the guy starts shooting is going to be interesting to hear an explanation and timeline for that.
Regardless of what your opinion of the situation is, it’s UNDENIABLY a horrendous failure from the secret service. It doesn’t take a whole lot of common sense to acknowledge an elevated position within 200 yards is obviously a threatening position and one that should get nonstop attention from a security standpoint… The fact that shots were fired at all shows a tremendous flaw in the Secret Service’s ability to do their job (unless it was the CIA like a Kennedy/RFK situation and they were well aware).
Their only job is to keep their client safe and they were 2” away from a dead client from the most obvious position after getting tipped off to the shooter 5 minutes prior…
If it wasn’t an inside job? Insane. If it was? Even more insane. Anyone who says it isn’t the slightest bit sketchy that a shooter was able to take 5 minutes climbing a building and settling into position on a wide open rooftop within 200 yards of Trump is lying to themselves. Very sketchy.
Canepole the FBI is taking over the investigation do you think for one minute you’re going to be told exactly who the shooter was? This is far from over we will see something major happen before this election as if this wasn’t crazy enough. One day you will wake up and realize our government isn’t here for us and they sure as hell ain’t gonna care about the troops they send off to WW3.
I'm going to give the CIA a little more credit if they wanted Former President Trump gone, he'd be gone. Maybe we can wait a week or at least a couple of days and see what the official release says. God Bless the USA!
Spike, I'm sure we've had plenty of instances like that in my (63 years) life time. Most were necessary for the greater good of our country. Just my opinion. It's also my opinion that 150-200 yard missed shot doesn't sound like a professional job. I don't care to comment on the Secret Service until I know more regardless of what my fellow BowSiters are speculating right now.
Yes, the next President has been confirmed in my opinion. The Dems have just seen the final nail put in the coffin. Sad it has come to this but comments like Tyrant, The end of Democracy & so many other negatives by Democrats & the news media. Maybe this time the real tyrants will be seen & the swamp drained.
That doesn't look like a very far shot. Shooter was a terrible shot if it was only 200 yds. Be interesting to find out the gun, caliber, distance, and training of the shooter. The photo above will propel Trump into the next presidency.
Looks like we are all missing the point. The policies that have brought us here, policies of hatred in the purest form. Last time this political hatred existed the people went out and shot the kings guards in the street.
It was 130 yard shot. The police could have shot him before he shot at Trump. They SS shot him afterwards.. they should have capped him before all this happened.
Idiots name is apparently Thomas Crooks 20. From somewhere in PA. Saw it on the NY Post. For those of you who are face book: https://www.facebook.com/ebrianrose/videos/1520415492226145
I live in Butler. The hospital isn’t far from me. It was a wild day here. I have lots of friends who attended the rally today. Sad for the bystander. I would never attend a large public gathering like that. Especially a political one. Same for places like Times Square on New Years Eve. Shootings and terrorism are out of control. I really believe that regardless of which side prevails the results of the next election are going to be total pandemonium and that will probably include some violence.
I cannot freaking believe that the secret service didn’t secure a rooftop a mere 130 yards from Trump! He’s damn lucky to be alive. If that kid was an elk hunter he’d be dead.
Judging by the facial hair, he couldn't have been someone any older than 20 unless that's a chick on testosterone.
Spike, inside jobs don't miss. Especially that close. This was a kid who I'm guessing hasn't shot a lot of rounds in his life.
You automatically believe that everything is some sort of conspiracy instead of what it actually looks like. Look up Paranoid Personality Disorder. You have it and you need help.
"The ballistics knowledge on this site is fantastic."
have to admit...that was pretty funny.
in all seriousness...how can this be a surprise to anyone? for the better part of a decade now...trump has been accused of being everything from a russian sympathizer to hitler. the only thing that is surprising is that it took this long for something like this to happen.
They tried to bankrupt him. They tried to slander him. They tried to imprison him. Now they have tried to kill him, but if God is protecting him, they will never succeed."
I agree with this author’s opinion that Biden calling Trump radical fascist was outrageous BS and feeds the minds of stupid impressionable kids like this.
I don't care what political party you are registered with, or if your a conservative or liberal.
Sooner or later we are going to have to face the truth. The "truth" can set us free, it can make changes for the better, it can change the course people are taking.
or.............
We can keep blindly following a lie, or ignore the "truth"....keep trying to justify our wrong doings. And more minds will become twisted enough to no longer discern right from wrong often to the point of this........
The party of tolerance and inclusion has been inciting and approving of violence with their continued rhetoric towards Donald Trump for over 8 years now. Cathy Griffin holding his fake severed head, Maxine Waters encouraging the mindless drones to "get in their face", Robert DeNiro and Bette Midler wishing to do bodily harm to him, The current administration calling him a threat to democracy, Hitler, a Zionist, a racist, a xenophobe, a dictator, etc... Supporters of the former President have been labeled MAGA extremists, Bible clutchers, deplorables, or radical white supremacists. Steve Scalise was shot, BLM and Antifa riots destroyed entire neighborhoods, Hamas protestors have threatened the lives of students. All under one administration. The ideology is furthered by their mindless drones in the MSM. They push the lies, they push the speaking points, and are not held accountable. CNN 'he fell" WaPo and USA Today "he became startled from loud noise", even the WH, "can't comment because not sure if it was an assassination attempt" was the original comment released. They all have blood on their hands. Any violence at a Trump rally before yesterday, ever? Those are truly peaceful gatherings. Why is it that every active shooter in the last decade or more has been a DEMONcrat with a history of mental illness? These people thrive on anarchy and violence. How anyone could support such a party with all that they stand for and allow is beyond me. And that doesn't even include foreign policy, the economy, the open border, the climate change BS, the fuel prices, the high crime and lack of prosecution, the woke military, and the alphabet mafia.
“Why is it that every active shooter in the last decade or more has been a DEMONcrat with a history of mental illness?”
Apparently a registered Republican, who also donated to a left-wing PAC ($15), who was likely wearing a Demolition Ranch t-shirt. Not much coming out about his online presence. Based off all that information, which is basically not much, I’d say the signs point towards a confused mind (and possible social outcast) trying to make a name for himself more so than anyone fighting for a particular political party or cause. Again, that’s way early speculation as more will undoubtedly come out.
Kinda something when posters complain about the divisiveness or hatred from a political party out of one side of their mouth, only to disparage and insult them out of the other.
BEG, "Apparently a registered Republican, who also donated to a left-wing PAC ($15)", yes, definitely a confused mind. "Possible social outcast", no, getting more mainstream every day. Tie breaker goes to Al Dente who hit "the nail on the head"!
lot of truth there bigeasy.....the point SHOULD be not whether he was democrat or republican, but how on earth a mind can become so twisted.
hate isn't a good thing regardless of which side of the fence you run.
People it IS possible to dislike, not approve , or be against something without hatred.
I certainly do not care for Biden, certainly do not approve of many of our social problems, yes sometimes it angers me.....but never, i mean NEVER does it cause such hatred as this.
You can dislike Trump.......without hatred.
If you do have such hatred, then your problem is NOT Donald Trump....it is in fact your own twisted mind. You have become, your own worst enemy, and Trump is just your scapegoat.
Obviously this boy was twisted., The real problem was within his own mind.
Yes just read he was a registered Republican strange. Idyll yes missing a chip shot like that wouldn’t be a pro but I just can’t fathom a rooftop in direct line with Trump was overlooked. Hell it was probably the closest roof and that is what makes it suspicious. I may just be a Conspiracy Theorist because I can’t fathom that much incompetence. That’s probably the very first thing they know to check.
"Trump: 'It Was God Alone Who Prevented the Unthinkable"
Trump was wrong. There are people in this country who do think they want to kill him for his political beliefs. Encouraged by not only outrageous talk, but also evil desires in the hearts of people bent on power to control others. The manipulation of minds to resort to deadly force and violence has all to often surfaced in this free society and damn the consequences.
God alone, yes, the Creator of American rights has allowed us to see the evil in the hearts of mankind as our nation abandons his principles.
Well your boy identifies himself as them on his page so he ain’t no damn Republican plus he’s a call of duty nerd but the funny part is he has 0 posts with 700 followers. CNN also reported he donated to the Dems. This whole story stinks big time. I’d also like to know how a close up of the shooter dead was able to be taken and posted for everyone to see. My opinion we have a look alike migrant paid for and the alleged shooter is buried somewhere before the rally.
Just because he used the Dem strategy of registering to vote against a specific republican in a closed primary, doesn't make him a Republican. Already been reported as an antifa dipstick.
I live in this town and go right by the place regularly. The business AGR is closed on the weekends and should have been cleared, kept secure, and in fact, Secret Service should have had a man or two on that roof as part of a secure perimeter. Secret Service failed.
One thing people don’t think about is if that roof was metal at that time of day it was so hot that the shooter had to rush the shot. I work on top of steel and on a hot day you will burn your arm in 3 seconds
By far the most stunning thing to me is how on earth anyone could get within 130 yards of Trump...in broad daylight, climb a ladder with a rifle, laydown and take aim at Trump.
In addition I just watched an interview with one of the eyewitnesses, who said he and others were literally yelling and pointing at the shooter to the police, telling them there was a guy on the roof with a rifle. How the hell could people in the crowd...on the ground, see the shooter before SS?!
How a rooftop withing 130 yards went unmanned by the SS is mind boggling.
I dont believe in conspiracies and I dont think this was an inside job - but these basic questions and a few others need answered ASAP!
"One thing people don’t think about is if that roof was metal at that time of day it was so hot that the shooter had to rush the shot. I work on top of steel and on a hot day you will burn your arm in 3 seconds."
BEG his page said Life sucks/Call of duty lover and them after his name. If you click on the address in post above then go to comments it’s on there. Like I said before I really would like to know how his picture of his dead body was shown.
Idiots name is apparently Thomas Crooks 20. From somewhere in PA. Saw it on the NY Post. For those of you who are face book: https://www.facebook.com/ebrianrose/videos/1520415492226145 Look quickly before FB takes it down. There ya go BEG
I was writing on emotion yesterday about the snipers backing off their stocks, tough call in that situation... they could have had some store bought drone watching from above. scentman
"One thing people don’t think about is if that roof was metal at that time of day it was so hot that the shooter had to rush the shot. I work on top of steel and on a hot day you will burn your arm in 3 seconds."
Am now seeing bystander cell phone video near the ARG building of people yelling "he's got a gun, he's on the roof, he's got a gun" just seconds before shots... Would think that might have helped rush the first shot...
“Look quickly before FB takes it down. There ya go BEG”
No clue what that video shows, spike. Apparently according to the person posting it it’s not the shooter, but someone impersonating him. Still haven’t seen any link to “his page” with his pronouns…
This young guy is just another mentally delusional wacko, like many thousands of other mentally delusional wackos in the population of 400 million people. No different than the deadly school shooters. And one of the few that gets motivated to do something with his deranged thoughts.
It probably should have ended with him being hauled off by SS before he got on the ladder and there would have been all kinds of speculation about who he wanted to kill. Maybe trump. Maybe just spray bullets into the crowd.
SS has likely become quite lax at Trump Rallies because they are always peaceful. Some people can't wait to find the darkest possible motive for any situation, but I think this is nothing more than a sick man who's timing and opportunity collided with the gross incompetence of the security team tasked to protect the wacko's target.
But one thing is sure. Trump came within three inches of being assassinated. And if he had been, the country would be on the thin edge of civil war. The "peaceful BLM protests" would look like paint balls games in comparison.
I know a person who went to school with shooter. Never talked to the kid. Said he went full remote after covid. Skies in b.p. Were shut down and shooters house had cops and bomb squad there.
I downloaded the video on my cell before it was pulled off FB but don't know how to post it... It's still on my phone, if Pat will allow it, somebody instruct me how to post it...
I heard someone say........This country came within about two inches of a full blown civil war, thank God he missed.
I have seen Democrat steven woodrow.......comment about the shooting, "the last thing we need is sympathy for the devil"
I have seen kathy Griffith holding a bloody head of Trump...joke or not, you just don't do stuff like that.
I have seen calls for violence by democrats go unnoticed yet Jan 6th become big news....clearly both are wrong.
WE have supported or turned a blind eye to the freaks of our society long enough.
We really , really need discernment here, and you really really need to be able to see clearly.
before its to late........
Right after the shots, people rose right back up and began cheering for something they believe in..."USA, USA, USA"........Americans have fought before, not because they wanted to.....but because they had to.
Evil just don't go away just because you ignore it. It don't just die off, it seeks to manipulate, infect, and overthrow others.
It twists the minds of people to the point they become reprobate, not realizing right from wrong......
lets put a stop to it peaceably, both democrat and republican, liberal or conservative......It's time to end the freak show.
We CAN end this peaceably.
stand for what is right........or be ready to fight........choice is yours.
On July 8th, Biden proclaimed that "It's time to put Trump in the bullseye". Sounds like grounds for arrest by today's sick Leftist standards. Words matter.
More info needed. Its possible/appears the 2 SS snipers were on him. Maybe he was prone and behind the shallow peak of the roof with no clear shot or no confirmation that he had a gun. Maybe the shooter could see he was seen and popped up quickly to shoot.
Many radical Dems register as Republicans to screw with the primaries and polls. Would need to hear more about this wacko kid's posts and digital footprint to get the real story. Guessing medicated gamer who plays a lot of first person shooter games...
FWIW - The video of the counter sniper lifting his head off the stock looked like they were on the scopes scanning the crowd.... heard the shot and lifted up in surprise (naturally).... and then got back on stock/scope for game time. IMHO
Shade Mt. x 1000. Well said. This talk of civil war is unAmerican IMO. This was done by a sick individual...1 person full stop. The shooter got off easy and deserves to burn in hell. I agree those on the radical left saying unAmerican stuff like soccermommy did add to the political discourse and violence but no more than anyone who advocates for civil war against their neighbors, friends, and family. Make no mistake...that's exactly what YOU are advocating for. Or those blaming this on "libs."
Anyone not condemning this assassination attempt or calling for more violence for retribution/civil war should just get the F out OUR country IMO.
If you don't like Trump or hate him then step up and put your life on the line like he did and beat him at the ballot box. That's how it is supposed to work. If he wins he's my president, our president, the American president.
KS people talk about a civil war because they are tired of this corrupt government. I’m not saying the Biden government I’m saying the whole government. There is nothing unAmerican about draining the swamp in fact it is completely American.
KSflat - the talk of "civil war" isn't a desire by any means. What is unAmerican is the weird, twisted, and perverted agenda these extreme end of the spectrum "politicists" have to force the country one way or the other.
Extreme right-ism is just as destructive as extreme left-ism.
The rhetoric of civil war is simply a means of action necessary to preserve what America was founded on and functions on. The ones instigating the civil war are the extremists. It's everyone else that will end it....
Zbone yeah and did you notice when he was ushering the people away he wasn’t standing straight up but bent down a bit anticipating the whole thing. Also is it common for the SS to be that far away as they had to climb up to get to Trump. Call me a tinfoil hat effer but this entire thing stinks real bad. Plus I like how the short female agent was blocking Trump exposing his whole head lol.
Here's a link to Twitter....someone in the crowd was videoing the shooter on the rooftop with the rifle before the shots.......shooting.......then the shooter was shot.
FWIW, I have talked to a few hard core liberal Dems that are registered Republicans- My buddy Chuck's secretary for one. They think it disrupts the Rep selection process.
Reassuring that the FBI is heading up the investigation. A Keystone Cops image comes to mind. Wonder what the DOJ will try to charge Trump with for "inciting violence".
So I am challenged on one issue that I stated, which, if you checked, the shooters are mentally ill DEMs. Pulse nightclub, Uvalde School, Covenant School, etc... Notice that you ignored the other points that I made. Typical Liberal, cannot face the facts. Just like the illegals that murder, torture, and rape, which was danced around. "are you sure?" I will not engage any other person on this forum who is a Dem, Lib, Marxist, Socialist, Communist, etc... You are not worth my time or the air that you breathe because YOU are part of the problem with your ignorance.
"Zbone yeah and did you notice when he was ushering the people away" Yeah spike I did notice that... Makes ya go, hmmmm... Also, I totally agree if they are going to have lady SS agents they need to be a certain height to cover Trump... The lady head of SS, director Kimberly A. Cheatle says she wants 30% of agents to be female... Am betting she is not going to be there long with all this coming out about lack of resources and shooter's capability of getting that close with a rifle...
Trump is like 6'4", where they gonna find hundreds of 6'4" Amazon women to make up 30% quota of the SS...8^) (sorry, couldn't help myself..8^))
In Beendare's video posting, sounds like SS sniper put 4 shots on him, then you hear "he's turning this way" meaning the shooter was still somewhat alive, then I think I hear a coup de grâce shot... I know it's early stages of investigation but with it being early in Trump's speech am sure there are tons of cell phone videos out there, it'll will be interesting to see if anybody kept their camera on the SS snipers...
This might be one of the few times Boggs and I are totally on the same page, and possibly the only time I agree with GG, but IMO, both are spot on. The idea that any position within 500 yards of a president, or a candidate, is not covered by the SS, is a sick joke. It’s pure incompetence, especially since Biden has been guilty of the “dictator” and “destroying democracy” rhetoric while rallying his potential voters. Trump hasn’t kept his mouth shut either, about Biden, so there’s enough animosity to go around. This is a volatile campaign from both sides and there is no excuse for the incompetence regarding the SS. Any deer hunter could have made that shot good with almost any rifle given 15 seconds. That’s too close not to be covered. I realize if you’re going to attempt to assassinate a presidential candidate the adrenaline is probably going to be running high. The snipers however, should be immune to that. It’s possible that he was hidden from their view until the last few seconds. I hope that’s the case, I hate to think they hesitated for any other reason. Time will tell…….maybe, and maybe the truth they tell won’t actually be the whole truth.
HDE- I agree mostly but someone is going to hear the talk of civil war and take violent action. Just like the sh#t Ksthy Griffith did or other in the left are the 1000 cut that probably led to this idiot trying to take the life of a former President and current presidential candidate. Again good post and I understand where you are coming from.
Al Dente- Thanks for making point. You are not my enemy. We are Americans on the same side. I don't own what this deranged idiot did, no more than you own the attempted kidnapping of Governor Whitmer or the guy that ran over people in Charlottesville.
The civil war talk will lead to more violence and those pushing war are not Americans. That stings...good. I'm not taking up arms against my friends, family and neighbors, or my brothers/sisters here.
the notion that the very people who have been demonizing trump...in every way imaginable...from claiming he is an existential threat to our democracy to claiming he is the next hitler...now all of a sudden want to have a kumbaya moment is disgusting. your rhetoric contributed to the assassination attempt against a former president and the nominee to be the next president.
say what you will about soccer. as reprehensible as his bile is...at least he has the guts to own it.
So the shooter is this guy why is the other guy reported? This guy was Antifa who was arrested in 2017 at a Trump rally. Seems to me like the CIA could get to him fairly easy as he went to jail and hated Trump. How did he get an AR? Hmm
Ricky- if you are referring to me please show me where I called for violence against Trump ever or I compared him to Hitler. I said he is a threat to democracy IMO and that is still my opinion. The way to fix that is at the ballot box not through violence.
But thanks for making my point again.
I'm glad Trump was not seriously hurt or killed and my heart goes out to those who were killed or injured.
Yearick as the ear doesn’t lie. He also has a huge past with violence whereas Cooks is squeaky clean. Why would the feds want to say a Dem Antifa guy did it when they can blame a registered Republican that sits home and plays Call of Duty which is convenient because violent video games make mass shooters and he used an AR so how nice is that for the Republicans to call for the ban now. Nope poor Cooks is dead all right but it sure as hell wasn’t from a SS bullet to the dome. That kid will never be found. Didn’t the FBI say they were doing a DNA test but then released his name quick? Also, Yearik is perfect as he obviously has no parents to report him missing now does he? Just a brainwashed kid given an AR and sent off to die. Call me what you will but that’s my theory.
Now here is a pic of Crooks the “alleged” shooter. You make the call. I see a nerdy baby face with no facial hair and taller ears but I’m not a detective I just have an entire roll of tinfoil to put on my head.
Nothing about the shots sounds like a "shotgun" Grey Ghost, nor does it sound like a .22. The sonic crack follows any bullet over 1200 fps, and when it goes by you, it sounds like a .22. I've stood 50 yds to the side of a stump being shot by a Barrett M82 A1 .50 bmg at a quarter mile, and it sounded like someone shooting a .22 when the bullet went by me. The report from the hilltop was a muffled "whump", nothing more except for the dust erupting under the muzzle break. I've experienced the same exact sounds when being shot at by other high powered calibers. The key sound to listen for is the impact of the bullet which is prevalent in high powered center fires. There were usually be an impact noise followed by the snap of the sonic crack, followed by the muffled report.
That guy is not the shooter he is just an idiot trying to gain fame by clicks. Look at my pictures above and do comparisons and draw your own conclusions and stop listening to the media.
BEG the alleged shooter “Crooks” was killed by the government. Look at the pictures and tell me honestly who you think it is. If Yearick amazingly comes out alive and posts I will eat my words. Like I said the ears don’t lie. But please prove me wrong. They have been after Trump for 8 years now.
"Nothing about the shots sounds like a "shotgun" Grey Ghost, nor does it sound like a .22."
I agree. When I made that comment, I had only seen the pics of Trumps bloody face, which appeared to have multiple wounds. After seeing/hearing the videos, it's clear the shots were from a rifle, and the multiple wounds were just blood drips from his ear.
Spike, what's it like to live in that alternate reality of yours?
What do you mean “the ears don’t lie?” Are you talking about the video where the guy says he hates Republicans?? Seems like that isn’t Crooks, it’s someone impersonating him. Crooks was shot on a roof after trying to kill Trump. There are plenty of pictures of the shooter alive. They look like the guy whose bloody face was posted above.
Spike, compare the right ear of the blooding pic above to the right ear of Crooks in Cnelk's video above. They are identical. You can even see the two raised nubs at around 10 o-clock on the outer edge of the ear in both pics. The shooter was Thomas Matthew Crooks. But don't let that stop you from living in your fantasy conspiracy world.
GG before you open your mouth humor me and compare the ears of the shooter and the idiot Antifa guy then read all about who the FBI allegedly named the shooter and post who you think most likely who it was instead of listening who the lying main stream media tells you who it is.
They keep saying shot grazed Trump's ear, I Just seen a photo of side of Trump's face and looks to me like it wasn't a graze, you can seen a hole through the top of his ear lobe... Dang, that is close... Would assume it must have been a solid point...
GG I sent a link showing side by side comparison of a guy who had a huge ring and the same guy dead with his damn ear trimmed in half to cut out all that gay shit he had going on. Please show me in the photo of crooks where he even had a regular earring on? When I first saw the pic of the dead shooter the first thing I said was his ears look cut up and half the size of normal ears and the second is why is their fresh blood on the roof and dried blood on his face? The kid alive in the video is just an idiot getting clicks and let’s say he is Crooks he is saying you have the wrong guy.
So now the Yearick guy cut his ear in half so as to hide the gigantic holes left from his earrings that you can clearly see in the mugshot of him?? lol spike, you are one of a kind.
I'm going to be curious about the investigation on why the SS/police didn't pick out Crooks on that roof top. I can pick out a common ground squirrel at 200 yards and take it out with my AR. I am finding it hard to fathom these "pro's" couldn't pick out a sniper at less than that yardage.
I don't buy into conspiracies, but this is a head scratcher. I'm thinking the SS chief is going to have to answer some pretty tough questions on who or why the security was so deficient.
BEG he had the it removed by doctors hence why his ear is half the size of a regular ear because he had the hoops stretch it out. I swear you guys talk shit without even looking at what I sent. I said his ears looked odd before I even saw the link I sent. There is no way Crooks is that guy talking on the video. Crooks is dead and will never be seen again and the Antifa pawns body will never be identified because he has no parents. The FBI took DNA but miraculously stated who the shooter was before they even got the DNA back wtf. Then why take DNA? Repeat after me their is zero chance that a shooter would have made to 130 yards on a rooftop with a legit SS but once again you guys are gullible even after Trump has been targeted for 8 years now! What will it take to wake up?
You should ask yourself that. You've been living in a dream world for years. But at least you're comical. Antifa pawn, DNA, and surgically repaired ears....too funny.
BEG I don’t even have to think about crazy movie scripts as the government makes them for me. I know since they have been after Trump for 8 years now that after not accomplishing their mission that this would be the next step is too crazy to fathom but yes here we are today. Amazing that Lee Harvey Oswald was in cahoots with the CIA but no can’t happen today the government is an honest and trustworthy organization and not a legal corrupt mafia. You guys just keep listening to the media and I will keep on keeping on.
Spike couple questions. When did the SS do the body swap because there is a video of cooks on the roof and people below him while he was still alive. And why won’t they identify ear ring guy. There is lots of his DNA in the system as he was arrested a lot.
Bluedog, It’s not hard for me to imagine that Thornton has been shot at a lot.
The counter snipers are targeting the shooter before the shot on video-I guess the hesitation to shoot a civilian is understandable BUT in the future some innocent fool is going to fafo.
GG have you even seen the pictures of his ear before you talk shit? That is obviously surgically altered and the FBI said they took DNA that’s their words wtf is there to argue about?
Let me see if I got it, spike…the CIA/FBI/SS planned the assassination with Antifa, this Antifa guy Yearick was picked to be the shooter, they surgically altered him to be able to pin the shooting on this other kid Crooks, who they also had to kill so that he couldn’t speak out and say he wasn’t the shooter. Did I get that right?
Seems to me that Crooks has a fuller lower ear lobe but keep drinking the FBI kool aid. Will the real Yearick please stand up please stand up but no he won’t cuz he’s dead. Funny Crooks father said I’d like to know what the hell is going on here? I’d say he knows his son very well. Well Mr. Crooks your son has been sacrificed and you will never see him again. If I was him I’d ask to see his body let’s see if that happens. That Antifa boy was made to look like Crooks and the only way I will tuck my tail and run is if the real Antifa punk is alive and well.
One thing that is confusing to me is the fact that it was over 2 minutes from the time he was hit until he was in his vehicle and outta there. Seems like an awful long time to get him out of harms way. SS seemed slow, not sure of how to get off the stage and w/o anyone in charge on the stage.
I'm trying to figure out how Crooks' father met up with Yearick to give him the AR to use in the shooting? Because Crooks' father bought the gun six months ago.
Spike let me guess… You also believe George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld spent nights at the World Trade Center planting demolition explosives to drop the buildings prior to 9/11 and no plane hit the pentagon ?
A lot going on on that roof I suppose. I think laying the whole thing out would be helpful to a lot of us. Start at the video showing Cooks on the roof getting ready to take the shot
Here read this article and get back to me. Heavy conservative leaning, May have taken his fathers gun, and how the hell did he get in position. Either way this stinks bad.
Jaq please send link where father said he took his gun cuz other than that I’m reading Leo’s on condition of anonymity he may have taken his fathers gun.
I now understand that the rifle was not a standard 22 but a higher powered 223 cal. Reports that the shooter was a registered Rep, and was on the HS shoot team. His father purchased the rifle, I would expect not for this event.
Spike you sound as kookie as some of the left. Take a deep breath and give things a little time to play out. Quit jumping on the first conspiracy theory you find.
I would agree with Shug. The yelling added stress which could have very well have caused the miss. I'm sure Trump will provide for the family who lost a husband and father in the crossfire.
I agree this stinks. I just dont have enough information to know if it stinks of incompetence or something criminal. I have seen nothing to doubt Crooks is the shooter but from looking at the photos and satellite pics, that roof is probably in the top 5 most obvious places to have secure from a shooter threat.
Very hard to guard against a determined attacker but defeating security to get on a roof 140 yards away should require a sophisticated effort. A loser incel with his dad's rifle should have had zero chance of pulling it off.
Jeff- please put that in the link option where you upload pictures. It is very simple Some of us with phones have a hard time copying and pasting a link.
Csalem, I agree with you but, start the video of him getting up or out of the building to get on the roof. SS had a job to do and failed miserably. One really can't blame anyone with a conspiracy theory the way the event unfolded. I agree to give it time as we may find out some answers but, I am afraid we will never get the truth of how such a 3 minute blunder happened by a premier law enforcement agency.
Spike; do you know what algorithms are and why you are bombarded by feeds from no- name basement bloggers with 200 followers that unbelievably some how have immediate access to top level info that no one else does?
And the more that common sense people tell you that its nonsense the more you believe the nonsense. And the irony is that you think everyone else is duped. And all because you so desperately want all your kooky crap to be true.
Here is an easy to digest and remember bit of truth for you. One man shot Trump. One man got shot for doing that.
And some SS supervisors should be fired and charged with negligence.
The funny part is your alleged shooter had facial hair and long hair yet his picture showed short hair and clean shaven. I guess he just decided one day to grow long hair like the Antifa guy unreal.
So a 20 yr old lone gunman with no military experience climbed on top of a roof within 150 yds of a former president and shot at him, and that happened just because of security incompetence?! Really? Were the secret service asleep, even the ones just standing there with no binoculars, how do you not notice a guy on a roof 150 yds away?
People on the ground were yelling at the security, pointing the guy out, yet they couldn’t stop it?! Seriously? And of course the king of leftist stupidity on bowsite, flatlander, wants to reassure us all that it was purely just one crazy person, aided by no one, nothing more…don’t want anyone thinking it’s a government hit job. I’m sure bigeasy will chime in on this to reassure everyone too. One lone crazy gunman, how unfortunate.
Prayers for Trump and for the man killed, Corey Comperatore, his daughter’s Facebook post was heart wrenching. I hope my daughter feels the same about me, or I’ve certainly failed in life.
Its a peaked roof and the counter snipers would not have seen him until he looked over.
In another report posted here the shooter was very much in a hurry because he had just been confronted by a cop (who had been responding to alerts by attendees) and he knew his time was very short. None of this is hard to believe. The incompetence of the initial deployments before the shooting is hard to believe but not the short series of events that collided to allow it all happen.
beg, the highlited statement makes little sense...I guess penn keeps records of long gun sales? 12 hr DNA test...& matched to what? not saying it's implausible, just odd
Thanks ambush for clarifying that aspect of it, that makes sense that it’s possible for the shooter to get on the roof, and quickly take a few shots, if it’s left open for someone to just crawl up on it, within 150 yds of Trump. And the secret service often leaves an elevated position, within easy rifle range, open, for people to do that. That makes perfect sense Grey Ghost, they do it all the time…my mistake.
“Firearms tracing begins when ATF or another law enforcement agency recovers a firearm during an investigation and wants to learn where it came from. NTC (National Tracing Center) receives the trace request and uses the gun’s markings to identify its original manufacturer or importer. From those records, NTC is able trace the firearm through the wholesale and retail distribution chain to its first retail purchaser.
Every sale through an FFL is recorded in every state. LE traces it from manufacturer > distributer > dealer > customer. In a priority case its done very fast.
Not to mention the shooter would have to pull his car up in the parking lot unnoticed or would have to sat in his car for quite some time not causing any suspicion.
Speculation...... the building shooter was on was designated outside of Secret Service perimeter. Local law enforcement took security responsibility for area outside of perimeter. This could also explain SS need for positive ID when seeing a person on the roof of building before engaging.... Just a guess. Does not excuse total security failure but how it happened... maybe
None of us know how the kid got on the roof with an AR. Perhaps he hid in the manufacturing plant overnight, and the SS sweep didn't find him prior to the event. Who knows. The roof of the building the shooter was on also appears to have a short parapet wall around the perimeter, which could explain why the snipers couldn't take him out until he raised up to fire his shots. Again, just speculation. Either way, it seems clear this was a security failure. As for the crazy conspiracy theories....I guess you're free to believe whatever you want.
I listened to another crazy conspiracy guy on a mainstream news channel who said he couldn’t believe how few security people were on rooftops at this rally. That he was at another Trump rally back in 2020 and every single rooftop within 200 yds had security guys on them, tons of SS snipers and lookout guys. No way could someone get up on any roof and start shooting, it would have been impossible. Not so at this rally.
Itshot matched DNA to what? Exactly! He had no record who the hell did they match him to? Oh yeah maybe just maybe a couple of anonymous LEOs said he got the AR from dad who bought it 6 months ago. Meanwhile his dad wants to know what the hell is going on. I’d love to hear from dad on this and not the guys who raided Trumps Maralogo
Also if you watch the video where they are yelling he has a gun you will notice the shooter is laying down below the crest of the roof top. How the hell did he get shots off? Also just to give you an idea of how rediculous this is an NFL kicker can make a field goal at over half the distance the shooter was able to be undetected. Let that sink in.
There's a half dozen cars in the lot next to the building. Shooter parks his car and walks the narrow aisle between the buildings. He may have been looking for a spot to shoot from and then spotted a ladder going to the roof. A few people spot him and tell the local cops on duty. One cop climbs up the ladder and the shooter points his rifle at the cop, who wisely pulls back. The shooter now races to get his shot(s).
I don't know how long it takes a local cop to get through to SS that there's a shooter on the roof and which roof. But in the videos it looks like the snipers are already trained on that exact spot and waiting. Maybe his head popped up then up with the rifle.
And with facial recognition and AI they would have him identified in less than half an hour, then family confirmed and dna. Nothing "weird" there.
Anyone seen a picture of the gun yet? Obviously a relatively low quality image off a screen grab from a video…but really hard to see a scope on the gun. Having a hard time even seeing a red dot. Wonder if he was using iron sights?? Seems unlikely, but hard to see anything above where it seems like the rail should be. If he was using irons he was lucky to get that round that close to Trump; at the same time I’d say Trump was even luckier than I thought he was after it happened.
Alright, I changed my mind lol I zoomed in more and I think you can see a scope. Thought his head was down on the buttstock but looks like he’s off it a bit.
Bow sniper not sure what you’re talking about when did I ask that question? And to find out if it’s scoped just ask his father lol cuz MAYBE he got it from him as the story suggests. I just find it amusing how that kid grew his hair from short to shoulder length and all of a sudden he’s the guy! I didn’t cut my hair for like 6 months and it grew 2 inches. I’m glad you all have faith in your corrupt government as it will keep you sane and healthy.
BEG - you can adequately hit somewhere within a 4" circle at 150 yds consistently using a peep and globe sight. Forced into it in NM with muzzleloaders, so yeah, it is more than plausible.
Back to the cop that climbed the building and retreated when the shooter pointed his gun at him, don't cops carry guns? Did the cop just transfer from Uvalde? Personally I do not think this was any sort of inside job, but rather I would guess it was a string of failures, failures of the local police, failures of the ss, failures of others in the le field also, combined with a mentally ill individual.
As posted above where biden recently said "time to put Trump in a bullseye" how is he not responsible at least in some degree yet Trump is responsible for Jan 6th? Talk about assbackwards.
Agree regarding peep sights.... easily qualified expert with M14 way back in 66. Think I scored 78/80 .. popup targets 50 meters to 400 meters. Thinking you had 5 seconds to locate and fire before they retracted.
Ok so after looking at this photo more I noticed something very odd why is the neck and face two different colors? Looks like a head superimposed on the neck tell me I’m wrong. Don’t really know what to make of that.
I worked 25 years in the criminal justice system and worked with some of the most incompetent people you will ever see but i never worked with anyone so incompetent that when manning a post would allow an individual carrying a long gun to get within 150 yards, on a rooftop none the less, of a presidential candidate.
The site commander of the SS at this event should at the very least be temporarily relieved of his/her duties.
This whole thing smells real bad and looks real bad.
I meant the picture further down not the first one in link but side by side comparison. Buckhammer I’m glad I’m not the only one that thinks it stinks. Apparently the rest of the guys on here think everything is normal nothing to see here move along. Oh and Shug why do you want to see my face? What am I supposed to look like in your mind?
“BEG - you can adequately hit somewhere within a 4" circle at 150 yds consistently using a peep and globe sight.”
That’s less than a 3 moa group with irons, which I imagine is pretty high up there in terms of capabilities. Considering a human head is about 6-8 moa at 150 yards, and your average iron sight on a carbine (.07”) takes up 10 moa at 150 yards (ie, it is more than covering the width of your target), I’d say trying to pull off a shot with much precision is difficult. Not impossible, but very difficult.
Bowsniper if the pic was taken of him during graduation that would be in September which would make that pic less than two years old. Not your pic but pic of dead body
“One cop climbs up the ladder and the shooter points his rifle at the cop, who wisely pulls back.” Really?! What was he going to say to the Secret Service guys? “Hey, I saw a guy on the roof with a rifle, I think he was going to shoot at Trump” This cop should be charged with criminal negligence. He has a gun himself, you shoot the guy immediately!
If the whole security crew is this incompetent, I’m amazed Trump or Biden wasn’t shot at years ago, several times. The cop was probably a Liberal/Leftist DEI hire.
If this is all blamed on incompetence, it is incompetence on a level I have never heard of before. While I am not a believer in any conspiracy issue regards this, it is pretty easy to see how it can be questioned. A rooftop within 200 yards was not being watched by snipers or ground level personnel? This is a fail of epic proportions and should lead to repercussions for those involved. The family of the dead bystander has no repercussions.
I haven't read all the posts but its obvious the counter snipers were watching him the whole time, probably waiting for permission to take him out because if they didn't we'd be seeing pics of this guy at kindergarten graduation and hear about how great he was in the community. Chain of command failed big time.
I call bullshit that a cop grabbed a ladder and climbed up first of all second the story says he took a shot a Trump and was shot by snipers no he fired several shots before he was shot. I also read one story where they said a witness said he was never bullied then another that said he was bullied constantly. I also read that Leo’s came to the kid’s neighborhood kicked all the neighbors out to search his house. Sounds like a Maralogo search to me. Probably removed the kids body from his house. I’ve smelled dead shad in the river that stunk less than all this.
A shotgun wound? Shows you how many truly idiots are in this site, yeah a shotgun wound at 100 yards, this site has so many dumb shits posting, it's that stupid
Bottom line?............negligence?.........When you are a political leader, you have a much greater accountability.
You DO NOT say....."time to put a bullseye on Trump" nor do you say "i'd like to take him out back of the barn and beat the Hell out of him"
regardless of how arrogant or mouthy Trump is.
You don't play act shooting Trump...as some have. You don't make statements about putting a bullet in him..... You don't take a bloody look alike head of Trump and joke about it.....
And on and on and on......
There is mouthy or arrogant, and there is plain evil...
Same goes for republicans.....we cannot allow this.
These people gotta go.
vote them out legally, and honestly....then go back to the drawing board and come out next time with better elected officials.....be it democrat or republican.
A shotgun wound? Shows you how many truly idiots are in this site, yeah a shotgun wound at 100 yards, this site has so many dumb shits posting, it's that stupid
John I do have both of those but no not all in on that. I love what you guys think of me though kinda keeps everyone off guard ha. It’s possible I don’t even own a bow or hunt.
So the mainstream media tells me that a rooftop 150 yds away, directly in front of the stage, where a shooter can climb up the backside of it, ladder provided, and use the peak as a shield is outside of the “bubble of Protection” of the Secret Service. These agents, many I assume military trained didn’t notice that as an issue? Didn’t think this is how someone might line up a clear shot from an elevated position? Uh, huh…
Honest question. To the guys that keep saying Trump is a threat to democracy because of Jan 6th. Like has been mentioned above a few times. Shouldn't the same thing happen to Biden for his "bullseye" comment? Shouldn't we get the trials going?
July 8, Biden says “put Trump in the crosshairs.” Would any of the brain trust here like to tell us how a comment like that is any different than the claim liberals make regards Trump inciting the J6 issue? Was this comment made as part of his official duties as president? Is Biden immune or should he be facing charges? Please, explain the hypocrisy or the lack of it.
“BEG. I am no crack shot. But 6-8 MOA with a peep sights isn't difficult”
Here’s a post from a shooter I respect a lot. Kyle was SEAL/DEVGRU sniper. He considers a solid standard to be under 6 moa with unmagnified RDS (below is a group he shot for zero with one) or with iron sights. I’ve shot with Kyle a lot, and that is pretty typical of his 100yd groups unmagnified with a dot much smaller than a typical iron front sight (the black center of a B-8 is 5.5”). Again, I’m not saying smaller groups are impossible, but I wouldn’t characterize it as easy. To me, easy is something somebody relatively untrained can do 90% of the time. Furthermore, I don’t think there’d be anything easy about pulling off a headshot with irons at 150 yards under those types of conditions, assuming that’s what the shooter was trying to do. It’s kind of a moot conversation, as he appeared to be using a scope (and still missed).
“These agents, many I assume military trained didn’t notice that as an issue?”
Apparently they did. Makes you wonder if someone wasn’t supposed to be guarding that building and the SS was more of a secondary line of defense, which could also explain some of the hesitancy to engage if they did have eyes on the shooter.
So bigeasy, a building 150 yds away is recognized as a concern but then left unguarded and even though a man is spotted laying on the roof with a rifle in hand they hesitate to shoot him?! Thanks for providing more details and evidence to prove the government hit job theory!
“So bigeasy, a building 150 yds away is recognized as a concern but then left unguarded and even though a man is spotted laying on the roof with a rifle in hand they hesitate to shoot him?!”
Again, pure speculation. But perhaps there was supposed to be someone guarding the building at the ground level who failed to do their job. Maybe a local LE with not a bunch of experience working a security detail for someone of Trump’s stature, as there are reports a police officer confronted the shooter on the roof but bailed out when the shooter pointed his rifle at him. The SS could have assumed that person wouldn’t have let a threat onto the roof, and therefore were highly skeptical that they were looking at an actual shooter and that’s why they “hesitated.” Again, pure conjecture and speculation, and obviously still a massive security failure, but it doesn’t require a conspiracy to explain what potentially might have happened.
Things sure seem awful sloppy during this rally. I knew it was coming but figured it would happen after he’s elected. Looks as if a Superpower had a hedge of protection around him.
"July 8, Biden says “put Trump in the crosshairs.” Would any of the brain trust here like to tell us how a comment like that is any different than the claim liberals make regards Trump inciting the J6 issue? Was this comment made as part of his official duties as president? Is Biden immune or should he be facing charges? Please, explain the hypocrisy or the lack of it." Apparently, no Biden supporters or those with TDS want to attempt a comment. Why is this not surprising??
“BEG - you're overthinking it. Center with 2" drift left/right or up/down is a 4" circle.”
I know what a 4” circle is, HDE. I also have a good sense of what size groups a good shooter running an unmagnified optic on an AR platform rifle should expect to shoot. Again, see above.
"So, Mike, are you advocating for Biden to be dragged thru the same BS charges Trump was? Is that progress? Think about it." I am advocating for fairness. Many people do not believe the charges against Trump are BS, including Biden.
Nothing to worry about gentlemen, the FBI and DOJ are in charge of this investigation. You will all be told what to believe in short order, back to your mediocre lives so shut up and row.
“Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.”” ??Acts? ?5?:?38?-?39? ?
I now believe there is more going on here than most want to admit. When I think of Trump I think of the comments of Gamiliel in Acts. Trump is not going to be defeated. God has many times used very flawed people to conduct His plan.
The biggest question is how did the kid have so much faith that he could get that close and shoot without taking a 30 cal to the head? If I were to attempt that I would be smart enough to know that I would have had to back way further out then 130 yards. Odd
Maybe no true progress can be made until there is fair and even retribution in the opposite direction. Gotta break the back of the weaponized DOJ, deep state operatives, and everyone associated with it or who enabled it. It's a cancer growing in our democracy that needs to be rooted out and exposed in the harshest light for all the world to see. F'em.
That was the first thing I thought after seeing the building the guy was on. How would someone even be allowed to be there at something like this? Then I saw the video of the FBI sniper engaging the guy, but just looking at him through the scope? He probably was trying to figure out the same thing, is that one of our guys on that building? Stupid, for one thing leaving a building roof that close unchecked was reckless and should be addressed. The kid was seen and should have been fired on before he shot into a crowd.
I am in the camp of "can't believe the guy got that close". We built a project that finished in 2017 and Trump came in as president and conducted the ribbon cutting. I was blown away by the entourage that accompanied him. I too would have thought that every building within sight would have had SS presence.
“Good shooters can shoot .75MOA out to 300yds with vintage stuff and modern Palma guys can do much better at longer distances from the prone unsupported.”
Sounds like you are describing shooters who I would categorize as much better than “good.” These sound like the top 1 of all shooters - people who put a lot of time into their craft. Again, my point is that for the average shooter (like literally amongst everyone that shoots), a 150 yard headshot with open sights is a difficult shot. Layer on the fact that most ARs are not sub-MOA guns regardless of how good the shooter is, it makes the shot more unlikely to pull off. Again, not impossible, but there’s a reason sniper teams aren’t running their guns with iron sights as their primaries.
Surprised no-one has thrown this theory out there yet;
The shooter never aimed at Trump, he hit exactly who he was aiming for with his first shot. Trump (while hidden by SS) cuts his ear (or SS does it for him) and then he comes up with a rehearsed fist in the air for an iconic pic that creates patriots and votes.
"Layer on the fact that most ARs are not sub-MOA guns regardless of how good the shooter is, it makes the shot more unlikely to pull off."
BEG to differ (lol, lil play on words..) This is a 200 yard 3 shot group. Platform is a PSA build AR10 .308, PA FFP 4x16 optic, forget which ammo my son was shooting at the time. I'm sure the experts will say either "no way", or "That's nothing, I've shot much tighter". His BCM AR15 build, doesn't shoot quite as tight (and only 100 rounds thru it) but is MOA at 200 yards.
That’s a good one, Catscratch (though I have seen the blood immediately on his hands when he pulls it back from his ear before he hits the deck). But maybe that was CGI or photoshop? Spike??
Ok, bowbender…you’re right. Because you posted one pic of an AR style rifle (in .308, not 5.56/.223), you’re right. All ARs are capable of sub-MOA rounds.
I’ve got plenty of ARs that shoot sub-MOA (including two BCMs, which are higher quality builds). I’ve got plenty that don’t. Most - in my experience - don’t.
We shoot prairie dogs at 300+ yards with AR platform rifles. An AR is a very capable rifle. BEG, here is what I notice about you. 1) you know it all, 2) you are never wrong, 3) you like to argue about everything and anything 4) you spend so much time on the internet I don’t think you have time to do anything else.
I never said it wasn’t. Shooting prairie dogs at 300 yards with a decent AR (good barrel, good trigger, good ammo, good optic) is very achievable. Not all ARs are built that way.
I’ve been on ARFCOM for quite awhile and they have been doing years of the MOA All Day Challenge (linked). Seen enough guys get humbled to have a pretty good baseline of where the shooting public generally falls out. Note they have divisions for open sights in the challenge as well.
“you are never wrong”
I’m wrong all the time. Just ask my wife.
“you like to argue about everything and anything”
Mostly, I like to discuss things I have experience or a background in, which isn’t everything and anything.
“you spend so much time on the internet I don’t think you have time to do anything else”
What does that say about you as you seem to reply to everything I post?
"The shooter never aimed at Trump, he hit exactly who he was aiming for with his first shot. Trump (while hidden by SS) cuts his ear (or SS does it for him) and then he comes up with a rehearsed fist in the air for an iconic pic that creates patriots and votes."
lets assume for a second that the "theory" isnt batshit crazy (a very large assumption at this point).
are you suggesting that the shooter actually intended to kill a 50 year old firefighter with a wife and two daughters?
"Ok, bowbender…you’re right. Because you posted one pic of an AR style rifle (in .308, not 5.56/.223), you’re right. All ARs are capable of sub-MOA rounds."
Because that's what I said. Not. Look, just because you train with DEVGRU doesn't mean we need to bow in obeisance to your "vast" knowledge and experience. You need to take a step back, lately, your arrogance and condescending attitude towards others is getting to be a bit much. BTW, I'm well aware that BCM's are higher quality builds. Purpose of your comment?
“Layer on the fact that most ARs are not sub-MOA guns”
“BEG to differ”
Im obviously being hyperbolic and sarcastic when I responded to your point above (as anyone that knows me will tell you, I’m a sarcastic mfer, which doesn’t always work as well on the internet lol). But again, the point remains. You said you beg to differ that most ARs are not sub-MOA guns and then used an AR-10 in .308 and a high quality AR-15 to back up your point. My point is that isn’t much of a sample size nor are they reflective of most ARs in circulation. I’ll say it again, most ARs - and furthermore - most shooters are not sub-MOA. Most does not mean all and most doesn’t mean “you.”
“BEG - your MOA range is irrelevant with open sight. You do not have near the control as you do with a magnified optic.”
Why is it “irrelevant”? I’m talking about a reasonable standard of precision for different sight types. 5-6 moa with iron sights on an AR (which are not peep sights) are a reasonable standard. To me, 1 MOA with a “high power” scope (call it >6x) is the standard. And by reasonable, I imagine if you can shoot those on demand you are in the top 5-10% of shooters (on demand means ~90% of the time). I think it’s completely relevant in measuring one’s skill as a marksman.
The SS sniper had the guy in his scope for 3 minutes and his boss kept telling him to stand down. Finally the guy started shooting and the sniper said he finally disobeyed his commander and fired on him killing him. Again, WTF was the guy even allowed to be on that roof without being detained immediately by an SS officer or Police officer that was/should have been posted on that building?
Thank God Trump turned his head when he did. Catastrophic failure on the Secret Services part. The Cop that confronted the shooter was on another cop's shoulders and when he turned the gun on him obviously he ducked down and lost his balance like any of us probably would have done. Not his fault. Most of us new this was going to happen due to the Hitler comparison, dictator and end of democracy rhetoric. Hopefully that will end. Tucker Carlson brought this up years ago and the MSM called it a conspiracy while Gutfeld on the Five has been saying for months " What person wouldn't take out Hitler if it could save all these lives"
1.) It's utterly horrible for someone to perform or condone political violence. Period.
2.) I'm truly glad DJT is ok, but horrified for all the folks at the rally from attendees to LEO's who have to live with this experience. Zero humans improved yesterday, and that sucks.
"The only person responsible for the shooting is the individual that pulled the trigger."
That may be true. But there are also quite a few people who were responsible for preventing that person, or any person, from pulling the trigger. And they failed.
“Irons on every xm, or m series Gvt rifle are types of aperture sights. They are front and rear Adj. They are considered peep sights to the laymen. An aperture rear and a post or blade front.”
That is correct. I assumed (likely incorrectly) people describing a peep sight were describing something different regarding the front sight (ala your Palma style sights).
BEG Since he didn't use a peep or iron sights, can we get off that? Back to Why this novice guy could crawl up a roof with a rifle 130 yards from a president of the US... and get off 3-4 shots
So just to summarize, the SS overlooked or forgot to secure an elevated shooting position 130 yards from Trumps podium on the same day a 20 year old kid with no prior incidents or record decides to borrow his fathers rifle and climb up on the same overlooked rooftop in an attempt to kill the front runner in the current presidential race. He's not spotted by SS even though people are trying to signal that he's there. The SS is not able to kill him until after he gets off three or four shots and the FBI can't open his phone.
Apparently the building the shooter used was supposed to be covered by a local counter sniper team (not the SS), there should have been security provided by local LE around the building, and the Butler sheriff department confirmed a deputy encountered Crooks on the roof and retreated instead of engaged (per the attached Fox News article). All of this helps explain the SS actions in the moment.
Is that really the protocol to have a gunman identified but they cannot shoot until authorized ...or he shoots first?
The claim by some is that the counter snipers "had him in their sites for 3 minutes"...seems like that is an exaggeration...but they definitely had the guy in their sites and held off.
There’s a difference between holding off and making positive ID (PID). If the guy crawled along the roof it’s possible they could only see him partially and had no idea what they were looking at and couldn’t PID the threat. Once he shot they knew for certain and engaged fairly quickly. Again, speculation, but that’s my guess.
Apparently the powers that be don’t trust Joe or his guests not to blow up the network.
“ According to a CNN report, a person familiar with the decision said it was made in part over fear that one of the show's many guests over a 4-hour broadcast "might make an inappropriate comment on live television that could be used to assail the program and network as a whole."
Bigeasy, do you actually work for the Biden administration or you are a deep state bureaucrat?! You are so full of sh*t! Your typical crap on every thread. Nothing to see here, totally normal, same as all your ridiculous Evil, Gender Ideology bullsh*t.
You trying to normalize that they just forgot to sweep a building right in front of the stage, and then accidentally left the rooftop open just 150 yds away from the stage, really?! Along with a helpful ladder to climb up and a local cop that runs away when a gun is pointed at him. You can see it all over social media with several people, actually at the rally, yelling at the cops, about a guy on the roof with a gun! And nothing is done till the shooting starts. It stinks to high heaven of corruption, not just amazing incompetence.
All perfectly understandable according to you, nothing to see here. Along with a highly trained SS sniper with what a 10-15 power scope, looking at a guy just 150 yds away, with a gun pointed at Trump and he doesn’t immediately shoot him?! Just a whoopsie, he wasn’t told to hold off, for sure not.
1. If spike doesn't even think it was staged, then there's no way it was staged.
2. If this guy used a scope, then why are there 200 posts on this thread about shooting a rifle with open sights?
3. Why is it not plausible that when the shooter crawled on to the roof, he was spotted by the SS (who did their job correctly at that point), radioed it in to a CO (again, doing their job correctly at that point), the CO, then believing that there were actually friendlies in the area and frantically started trying to verify that fact because opening fire at a large event, causing a stampede, and killing one of their own would have been really bad... Why is it not plausible that this would have taken more than a few minutes as the CO was frantically trying to verify this?
Then the shooter starts taking shots and the SS, realizing that he knows more than the CO as he has eyes on the situation, takes the shot...
In medicine, we have a saying: If you hear hooves outside, assume it's horses, not zebras if you're not in Africa. The lesson is, you're better off going with the plausible scenario than assuming some outlandish diagnosis.
A simple breakdown resulting from multiple agencies providing security and one agency not doing their job seems like a completely plausible scenario. And some punk then got lucky (to make it into position), but was no trained professional, so Trump subsequently got lucky.
A 20 y/o Call of Duty nerd who lives his life on the internet with a ridiculous boy-beard seems the very likely lone-wolf-type to me: Nothing to live for, but in his head, everything to die for. He probably imagined himself a hero with accolades if he lived and to be labeled a martyr if he died.
You’re right Mike. More likely that it was an inside job involving the Biden administration (CIA, FBI, I don’t know who) in which they somehow managed to convince local law enforcement to go along with the plan, and there was some high up official in the ear of the SS agents telling them to hold off so the assassin could get his shots off. Yup, I’m the one that’s full of shit.
I’m a big believer in Occam’s razor, and there’s a far simpler explanation. The exposure was identified, but the people tasked with the job of securing that spot (which appears to have been local LE) didn’t do their job. It wasn’t the SS counter snipers team responsibility to secure that spot, they were trying to assess what they were looking at, communication was likely poor between agencies, hence why they may have “waited” to act.
Edit: basically what Idyllwild said above as I must’ve been typing when he posted.
I never said it was excusable. I said it makes more sense than a corruption and conspiracy. Not everything in the world is a result of an evil Marxist plan to destroy the world, Mike.
I try not to be too big of a conspiracy theorist. But a question I have is. How did a 20 year old from a hour away show up at rally know about that spot and get to the build with a rifle. Then know or at least think he would be get on that particular build without being spotted. That seems to be a lot of information to have beforehand. Also more unlikely than not being spot and shot in the short time once he was up there before get a shot at Trump.
While there should be, and likely will be some serious ramifications for SS/LE at this event the more I read (from credible sources) the more this seems to be a very unfortunate set of circumstances than any conspiracy.
Speaking of "unfortuanate", it's unfortunate that instead of having a civil discussion with someone you disagree with instead of actually sticking to what they actually said you either misrepresent that they said or worse, simply invent things they never said out of thin air. It's a pretty good indicator that you really need to rethink the soundness of your position if you have to employ those kinds of tactics.
Nowhere in any of Jason's (BEG) many posts did he even remotely "normalize" the events at the Trump rally and he certainly never labeled any aspect of it as "excusable."
What he correctly labeled as "understandable" is the unfortunate confluence of events as did I and the rest of the posters here who incline more towards reasoned approaches to discussions.
As someone who's been on the receiving end of disagreements with Jason I can assure everyone here of some facts; he doesn't argue for arguments sake, he doesn't think he knows it all and if you engage him civilly and respectively he will unfailingly reciprocate.
Oh, and yes, he will concede the point if your argument proves the more grounded and persuasive.
I'd share a camp with him any day of the week and consider myself fortunate for the experience.
Agree Mike.... BEG has similar traits you have. You're both a pleasure to engage ...for me anyway. Rarely do I disagree however. Civility goes a long way in my book.
Bigeasy, your job on bowsite is to normalize every terrible government policy, every crazy change that this administration or the USA government bureaucracy does.
From saying a man with a penis is a woman, to the millions of people invading across the border, to the 1 trillion dollars in debt being added every 3 months, to all the Covid lies, to a senile President who should be immediately removed from office, to an assassination attempt, etc, etc, nope, it’s all good, perfectly understandable reasons for all of it, no problem, nothing to see here. Move along…
Agree 100% Idyll. Of all the breakdowns that obviously occurred, the one that stood out to me was the video of the SS counter sniper with the bipod. If he had the guy in his sight, why didn’t he take the shot? It also seemed strange that he appeared to jumped when the shooting started, and had to reposition before he shot. Just listened to a former SS supervisor that gave an entirely plausible explanation. He said counter snipers are responsible for any possible threat out to 1000 yds, so even though it appeared the counter sniper was trained on the threat, he very well could have been focused hundreds of yards beyond. Once the first shots were fired, he quickly identified the threat, repositioned, and eliminated that threat. Even though this was a security failure of epic proportions, it doesn’t mean this was some sort of conspiracy.
Not to derail the bickering back to the topic.... but I don't think we know for real that the professional snipers ever had this guy in their scopes before he started shooting.
I believe that claim goes back to a rumor going around the internet, unsubstantiated at this time.
And I don't think there is an official position/statement yet about iron sights or optics on the assassin kid's rifle.
As usual, I agree with Mike in CT and bluedog. Those two, and BEG, would be welcomed in my camp any time. Heck, I'd even take KSFlatlander, but only if he wears those sexy spandex biker shorts. ;-)
I don't think of or think there is any conspiracy with this, 0, not my nature. I do think there were some F'ups though. I believe the SS sniper was confused on who was up there figuring it should have been covered, which is the F'up. That building should have had SS or law on top of it and no one else period.
“BEG - the margin for error is too high for an open sight at distance.”
That’s literally been my whole point all along lol and FYI not sure what you mean by MOA is meaningless - it’s still a unit of measure (again, my point being maintaining small diameter groups with open sights on an AR is challenging).
And Mike in CT, appreciate the kind words (and those that seconded them). I’ve always appreciated your perspective and respected the hell out of your intellect. I feel I spend half my time trying responding to people who put words in my mouth (see Mike U’s posts above) or people largely mischaracterize what I say or mean, so it’s always nice when someone gets it (ie, where I’m coming from or the point I’m trying to make). Again, appreciate the words and the feeling is mutual.
The SS woman who could not holster must make the international community wonder what the heck is going over here. A certain party is so willing to dumb us down in the name of making certain people feel good we are a joke now.
When I first seen this thread the first thought that came to mind is refrain from commenting until Dan Bongino has a podcast on it.
For those that don’t know Dan. He is ex secret service and was on Obama’s detail.
Very good podcast today and insightful on how USSS handles business. Are there unanswered questions still. Yes of course but he does answer a fair amount of questions as well.
SS has been having issues for a decade. With the DEI hire of their new director from PepsiCo this gs have gotten worse. Her DEI goal of having a 30% female force is just one of many nonsense directions she has chosen. Maybe this incident will be the beginning of turning it around
"Jen Psaki said the Repubs have created a 'tone,' but it is Biden & Dems who have called Trump a Nazi, a [sexual assaulter], a felon, a terrorist. They have called MAGA supporters domestic terrorists & cult members. Biden promised unity but instead incited violence & division. GO TO HELL.'"
Their denouncement of the assassination attempt is for show only. The DFL is trying to make itself look good. Most people with brains are on to them.
Idyll, I have to disagree, based on the following. The building, one of very few in the area, and only 130 some yards away, should have been identified as a high risk location. It should have been cleared and used as a position for a counter sniper. Instead, it seems it was left relatively untouched. All pertinent personnel should have been informed it was not a manned position and a ground detail should have been assigned to make sure it remained unoccupied. Had that been done, all counter snipers and other personnel involved in the security of this event would have known there was no authorized person on that building. This was a monumental breakdown in security and those at fault need to be held accountable for gross negligence as it relates to the injured and dead.
BEG - the unit of measure in context for open sights is what is meaningless. Making a "head shot" at 150 yds open sight isn't as difficult as you make it out to being.
If an AR isn't capable of doing that open sight, a scoped AR isn't either. It's all about target visibility.
That building was established possible problem back on July 5... Trumps entry to the rally passed by that very building with no SS guarding it... a long haired hippy type gnome climbs up and in street clothes positions himself in sniper mode. scentman
Cnelk, to me, that ladies reaction was very common for today's society. Anytime some sh!t goes down, it seems there are more people trying to record it on their phones than there are people trying to avoid the danger. If you watch some of the videos that were taken from further away, there are literally dozens of people standing up and waving their phones around instead of taking cover.
138 yards - crazy. Go search 150 yard bow shots on YouTube and you will find a ton of them. Arguing MOA of a scoped rifle is silly. A scoped AR is easily capable of a 138 yard shot. Hell guys are making that with a bow! Still can’t believe the guy got that close for one, and two, don’t know how he missed at that distance. Thank God he couldn’t shoot!!
And the first three shots sounded like he took his time? Did he get off more rounds? It's all very confusing even though there are thousands of camera phones. scentman
138 yards - crazy. Go search 150 yard bow shots on YouTube and you will find a ton of them. Arguing MOA of a scoped rifle is silly. A scoped AR is easily capable of a 138 yard shot. Hell guys are making that with a bow! Still can’t believe the guy got that close for one, and two, don’t know how he missed at that distance. Thank God he couldn’t shoot!!
“BEG - the unit of measure in context for open sights is what is meaningless.”
My last response on accuracy and precision of ARs, promise. My point was open sights are much less precise than a magnified optic, and that IMO seeing very high level shooters shoot, a headshot from 150 yards with open sights is seriously stretching the capability of most shooters. You seem to acknowledge this by saying “the margin for error is too high for open sights at that distance” but then say “it’s not that difficult a shot” so I don’t even know where you stand.
I’ve posted some screenshots from Kyle Defoor’s instagram above. As mentioned, I hold Kyle up as a pretty good shooter - he was a sniper in a Tier One unit, he teaches shooting now, but he’s certainly not the best in the world. Here are two groups he shot from the same exact gun (which happens to not only be a BCM that we talked about above, but a BCM upper that is literally named after him). One is shot under magnification, the other with the back up irons. Again, the group size is about 6 moa with the irons and is 1.25 moa (thanks to a flyer) with a scope. 6 moa likely isn’t too far off the effective size of a human head at 150 yards.
Like you said HDE, too much margin of error to count on a shot at that distance. A scope makes a rifle far more capable and more precise, and expecting to hit a 6 moa target for most shooters with open sights is pushing it. That was the only point I was trying to make, and I base that off of seeing lots of people shoot, including people who I consider pretty seasoned shooters. Apparently this forum is filled with people who - not shockingly - are much better than most shooters
“A scoped AR is easily capable of a 138 yard shot”
It looked to me like 3 shots at Trump... one near miss (photo of bullet in air), one flesh wound (ear), Trump ducks and a 3rd shot possibly over his head (might have been the game ender!)
There was a short pause then maybe 4 more shots which appear to be random into the crowd (since Trump was no longer standing) leaving to 1 dead, and 2 critical wounded.
The last shot may have been sniper taking the kid out.
The lady in glasses doesn't look unusual per prior post. Everyone was acting about the same. I can't stop watching the guy in the boonie hat directly behind trump who sort of squatted down but watched it all happening with an expression like it was a NASCAR race!!
Maybe not directly BEG - just ad nauseam. Guy used a scoped rifle and luckily sucked. Wasn’t trying to be a dick. Point being is that guy got WAY to close. Inexcusable IMO.
“Point being is that guy got WAY to close. Inexcusable IMO.”
You brought up an interesting thought. Admittedly, I have zero clue what the specific laws are, but if I had to guess he’s not breaking any laws being outside of the venue with a rifle. Obviously there were signs that LE should have intervened ahead of the shots being taken. But there are also rights to carry a firearm. Anyone have any specifics on what the law says about open or concealed carry around elected officials, be they former, current, or future?
That's an interesting thought Big. At what distance does having a open carry rifle become illegal? I'd say anything within 400yds would be very ill advised, but what's the law say?
I was reading an article in the paper this morning (Monday) approximately 36 hrs after shooting that the authorities are still uncertain how many shots the shooter fired.
Let’s see- we got a dead body with a rifle laying next to the body. When a semiautomatic weapon fire it ejects the casings in close proximity of where the weapon was fired. One would think the casings would be on the roof close to the weapon. Why is it hard to determine how many shots were fired?
In the words of the words of the Allman Bros, “ you don’t need a gypsy to tell you why!”
BEG, per your question, I found this information about open carry in Pennsylvania:
WHAT WEAPONS ARE ELIGIBLE FOR OPEN CARRY § 6102. Definitions. ...”Firearm.” --Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable."
I don't know the specifics of the shooter's gun, but an overall rifle length of less than 26" seems pretty short to me. I could not find anything about the distance from a rally venue that a person can legally open carry. It's an interesting question.
I went and shot my ML this morning a couple times. Just a plain ol 50cal CVA Accura V2 with standard open sights. Pushing a 420gr bullet. And I don’t even shoot as much as I used to.
Maybe crawling around on a rooftop, in close proximity to an ongoing rally, with a former president present, might possibly be outside the scope of being legally carrying?? LOL!
No laws were broken, he just climbed up there with his AR 135 yds from a SS detail to see if they could do anything about it... he was going to tie a string to it and do some fishing off the roof of that building... after all no law against it. scentman
“I don't know the specifics of the shooter's gun, but an overall rifle length of less than 26" seems pretty short to me”
That would equate to around a 12” bbl on an AR. Definitely plenty of ARs with barrel lengths less than 12” out there.
“Maybe crawling around on a rooftop, in close proximity to an ongoing rally, with a former president present, might possibly be outside the scope of being legally carrying??”
Is it? I think it’s grounds for LE to intervene but I think crawling around on a roof by itself may not even be grounds for the police to use deadly force (deadly force is authorized when someone poses “an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the agent or another person”) and I don’t know of any laws that make doing so illegal.
As someone who carries a lot and have read through my states CC laws, I’m 99% sure there’s nothing in there making it illegal to have a weapon around a president, or a governor, or any elected official. But not sure if there are other laws and statutes that apply.
Are you sure about that, BEG? A quick search shows an AR with a 12.5" barrel is typically 31.5" overall length. A 10.5" upper is listed at 29.5". So, by my math, a less than 26" AR would have to have around a 7" barrel. But I know very little about the AR platform. All my rifles are just old wooden stocked hunting rifles.
GG, it likely depends on a number of factors. But I’m pretty sure with a stock fully collapsed, muzzle device removed, a 26” OAL puts you somewhere around 12” bbl length. I’ll have to go take a look at some of my guns and NFA forms when I get home.
Only on bowsite can it go from an assassination attempt of presidential candidate, to who can hit a pie plate at 100 yrds with iron sites. You guys crack me up. Such cheap entertainment. Carry on.
I’m glad I’m only as crazy as this retired, 17 year military vet, 14 year sniper, that says that there is no way the shooter could get within 200 yds on a rooftop without help, without inside government help. He says a 7th grader with no experience would have had that building secured, that it’s ridiculous to think that some random 20 yr old could pull this off with no outside help.
Dan Bongino said his inside intel reason for the lapse to respond to the shots was no clear line of fire. If that is true how did they all the sudden have a line of fire to take him out AFTER his shot 4-8 times? I don't think the guy moved to a more open area... Don't know that but seems really unlikely. Maybe he just decided the low percent shot he had had to taken after all
I think there's nothing more to this than a bunch of people not really doing their jobs, from the local police to the secret service/etc. I understand why some people think there's more to it (conspiracy) because it is so hard to believe how a mentally ill kid could have made it to the top of the building with his counselor daddy's gun. But if you think about the amount of people half-assing their jobs these days, unfortunately it's very common. And yes in positions that you'd think would give a crap about what they're doing but they really don't from LE to the medical field to you name it. Sure we'd all like to think people in law enforcement would actually do their jobs when it comes down to it, but unfortunately I honestly believe way too many of them would do just what that cop that climbed the ladder did, turned tail and ran. Employers can't find people to work, so they hire any warm body. In one of the posted videos I couldn't help but notice a clearly obese cop shuffling along, seriously wth is he gonna do if he actually ever needs to run? This country is a mess, and Trump IS the only one that can fix it. TRUMP 2024!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Dan Bongino said his inside intel reason for the lapse to respond to the shots was no clear line of fire.”
Makes total sense to me, Saphead. Seems like he would have been concealed by the crest of the roof from the counter sniper teams at least when he was crawling into position. He wouldn’t have given much of a profile to spot or even shoot. I’m not convinced the counter sniper teams even saw him until after he shot. Again, sounds like that wasn’t supposed to be their area of responsibility (all reports were that it was supposed to be secured by local LE and local CST), and we don’t have any info on what was being communicated across the various security teams at that point.
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with Mike, as I basically agree with everything you said. My argument agrees that this was a major screw up at some level by LE. I was making the point that this didn't require some elaborate and sophisticated scheme by dark actors using a boy (ridiculous) to try and assassinate Trump, but rather, could very well just have been a dumbass who made it farther than they should have due to someone not doing their job. My scenario just explained why he may have gotten as far as he did.
My current guess is he quickly raised up a bit to shoot and it just took the sniper a few seconds to process the threat is confirmed and get the crosshairs on him.
Prior it appears they knew which roof top and maybe had eyes on but he was too concealed by the peak to confirm or shoot. Sucks to dump some kid and it turns out the rifle reported was actually a rolled up "Trump Sucks" banner.
Obviously there was a failure or multiple that let him get to that roof.
Those are really good pics, Thornton. All that aligns with what I’ve been thinking and saying. There was obviously a massive breakdown in security that allowed him to get into that position, which I’m guessing was compounded by poor/no communication to the SS CSTs, and difficulty in spotting and PIDing the threat (which would have become much easier once Crooks started shooting).
Bongino says his source are telling him they were tracking the Crooks kid as he got to the rally area, and lost him.
And that SS should have held Trump off the stage until the suspect was located again.
If true, that would make a NEW big question - what did they know about this kid to be tracking him in the first place???? When the current talking point is that he was a nobody they knew nothing about.....
“I’m glad that bigeasy is here to tell us how a 14 year veteran sniper is wrong, and he is correct! Thanks”
I see your boy Dallas is wasting no time and using his new found fame garnered from his crackpot theory to cash in on his country music career. Yes, I think his theory is garbage.
This assassination attempt is likely the result of negligence, complacency, and incompetence; not collusion, conspiracy, and cover up.
The eye witness said shooter took position and 8-9 seconds later started firing./ We have all heard the SS had him in sights prior to shots. I doubt that is true now and think its more plausible that they didn't see him until zeroing in after initial shots. I think the line of fire never changed.
There is a contingent here that consistently believes the conspiracy theory is the most likely explanation. You'd think that being so very wrong with such consistently would decrease conviction.
Video of man on the street interviewing the folks along a beach town- probably Los Angeles and its amazing how many people claim Trump staged the whole thing- at link. yeah its edited...so we don't know what % think this...but there are many liberal Dems willing to say it was all staged, Twitter link
"Bongino says his source are telling him they were tracking the Crooks kid as he got to the rally area, and lost him.
And that SS should have held Trump off the stage until the suspect was located again.
If true, that would make a NEW big question - what did they know about this kid to be tracking him in the first place???? When the current talking point is that he was a nobody they knew nothing about..... "
Umm, he was carrying a rifle, and he wasn't on their team. Reason enough, I think.
Pretty obvious that this wasn't SS's elite 'A' team, more like F troop.
One thing we have to remember here. The mental nutcase fires at will not caring where or who his bullets hit, he has no sense of decency or respect for human life, no moral fences, no thought of "thou shalt not kill" His life revolves around his own twisted mind, fueled by hate.
Our law enforcement on the other hand, know once they pull that trigger, the bullet is gone. It MATTERS to them. They have a moral obligation to be sure the bullet will not harm innocent bystanders. They are concerned about bullet path and where it could possibly go upon exit. All the while wanting to take out the threat as quickly as possible.
This is not a peaceful day at the range folks, with all the time in the world to shoot. This is chaos, people screaming, high stress situation.
it's easy to armchair evaluate.....till your there.
"it's easy to armchair evaluate.....till your there."
good point slade. all the i coulda and i wouldas dont mean a whole lot when you arent actually in it.
think about it in terms of bow hunting. we all know the dude that can hit the x's and 10's on paper and foam all day long...but cant seem to get an arrow into the chest cavity of a live deer.
Think of the pressure the snipers were in when he/they fired... They better not have missed... Had they missed, more innocent bystanders would have died...
“Pretty obvious that this wasn't SS's elite 'A' team, more like F troop.”
All the reports I’m seeing are that that sector was the responsibility of local law enforcement, and that the local counter sniper team that was supposed to be covering the roof was actually inside the building. It’s not clear if they were responding to the threat, or that’s where they were supposed to be stationed (seems unlikely), or if they essentially abandoned their posts to hang out in the building. We also don’t know what was actually being communicated to the SS leading up to the shooting, but again, doesn’t sound like SS really had any agents in that area and were relying on local LE to detect and interdict any threats outside of the secure perimeter.
It seems clear they relied on local LE to provide much of the security. I think in hindsight, that is something that you can easily question. But when it came to the events taking place the day off, it’s sounding more like local LE are the ones that dropped the ball if anything (again, based on reports I’m reading from news sources I trust). But no doubt there are questions the SS needs to answer about the plan they put in place and how it led to these gaps that were exploited (whether those gaps were a result of incompetence, negligence, complacency, or some other root cause).
My best friend has been a SWAT sniper here in KS for the last decade, ran a long range shooting school, and routinely misses coyotes and deer on our annual hunts just like I do. He has never shot anyone, but is a hell of a long range shooter.
The guy Mike U posted about above who is polluting social media with ridiculous conspiracies that the shooter must have had help on the inside to be able to do what he did. Dallas Alexander is his name.
"14 year sniper" doesn't impress me much either Thornton. Met too many "door gunners", "seals", "special forces" and "LRPS" over the years in bars.. way too many. LOL
^^^^ Doesn’t matter what organization…when people are hired based on filling a certain quota, rather than ability and competence, you have a HUGE problem
I’m happy for bigeasy that he feels so confident that he can completely discredit a 14 year sniper career with zero proof of why? Good for you buddy!
Another experienced military person, but a now a politician, Dan Crenshaw debunks a lot of the negative talk and “conspiracy theories” but what he does say is that the local swat team and local police would be in the same radio frequency as the Secret Service, they would all be working together.
But it’s a mystery to him why Trump wasn’t taken off the stage once the police were alerted by people on the ground and by the local cop who encountered the shooter, and ran away. That was going on 2-3 minutes before the shots were taken. And he has no explanation of how the shooter got up on what should have been a secure building, maybe the local cop was a Biden supporter and a Leftist DEI hire and he gave him a boost up?!
I wonder when that local cops name will hit the mainstream media? I bet it’s never.
“I’m happy for bigeasy that he feels so confident that he can completely discredit a 14 year sniper career with zero proof of why? Good for you buddy!”
LOL that’s hilarious. A 14 year sniper claims - with zero proof - it had to be an inside job. You hold up this conspiracy as gospel. And you want to discredit me? LOL, nice try Mike.
“Another experienced military person, but a now a politician, Dan Crenshaw debunks a lot of the negative talk and “conspiracy theories””
Yes he does. Including the BS that you shared from the “14 year sniper” you are putting on a pedestal. I trust Dan Crenshaw much more than I trust your sniper trying to grow his country music career. Dan is one of my favorite politicians in the country and I would love to see him run for POTUS one day. I’m also confident he’s been briefed far more than any of us on the issue lol
For those with Instagram, you can see what Dan is saying at the link above. Lots of good info that’s been shared by myself and plenty of others on the thread, including the challenges of PID the threat, the expectation of local LE to secure that building, and what may very well be a breakdown in communication between the local LE and the SS counter sniper team.
Again, what Dan is saying is aligned with what a number of us have been saying on this thread and is diametrically opposed to the garbage that Dallas Armstrong said. I fully agree with Dan - though he’s probably just in on it all too and Marxist in disguise, eh Mike?
Best collection of details I have seen so far. Deeper in to the article it tells how the local SWAT guys were staged inside that very building. They saw this kid acting suspicious outside once, and then saw him again holding a rangefinder (!!) and called it in. Even saw him a third time.
Could be the kid always had plans to use that rooftop.... happened to find cops inside the building... and skulked around until he figured a moment to climb up when they were not looking??? What an embarrassing security defense arrangement and performance top to bottom !!!
“So, they failed at the outset to establish a clear chain of command? This story gets dumber by the detail.”
I’m not saying that. I’m saying someone saying “hey, we’ve got a guy over here who we’re gonna keep eyes on” is a lot different than saying “we have a suspect who is scoping out a building, taking rangefinder measurements, and has a bag that could conceal a rifle.” Technically they are both “calling it in.” Furthermore, when calling it in, we don’t know who that was called into. No doubt there was a common frequency for which everyone could pass information, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a second channel just dedicated to security on perimeter. I’m not saying it happened, but it could very well be that the information that was called in was vague, non-specific, and didn’t create much urgency, and the person it was called into didn't see the need to escalate it to Secret Service. I have no clue, it’s pure conjecture, but none of the above wouldn’t surprise me. Again, it doesn’t excuse what happened or make it any less than a massive security failure, but it could help describe how it happened.
Furthermore, I’m sure they are great people, but I’d guess the level of counter sniper experience and even real life tactical situations the local LEs have is probably pretty low (I was born in neighboring Beaver county and lived in Butler county - it’s all pretty rural with a few small steel towns). To that end, if they were the front line the mistakes/failings I described above are even more “understandable” (nor forgivable, but understandable). I could see that being a major outcome of investigations - the reliance on local LE to provide such critical security.
I thought it was a joke when I heard that explanation from the head of the SS. Now it's coming out that Jill Biden pushed for her appointment. Let's face it, if trump didn't turn his head he would have been killed. People need to be held accountable for this, a loving husband and father lost his life.
If that is the ss directors excuse, it sure is a sad one. Like stated above, that roof had such a shallow pitch you could dance on it. Maybe she should have tried "it was too hot and sunny out to get on the metal roof. She is a Fing joke and needs to be fired.
'The mistakes that led to Trump being inches away from being killed sparked calls for Cheatle to step down, but she has refused and has now given a baffling explanation as to why there wasn't a presence on the roof that had a clear line of sight to Trump. That building in particular has a sloped roof at its highest point. And so, you know, there's a safety factor that would be considered there that we wouldn't want to put somebody up on a sloped roof,' she told ABC News in an interview Tuesday.
'And so, you know, the decision was made to secure the building, from inside.'
Within the baffling excuse, how does this explain that snipers were positioned on SLOPED ROOFS behind the stage? Of course she has been ordered to NOT step down. It is time for obtruction of the investigation.
The fact someone got near there with a gun is a huge failure. The fact that he got three shots off before anything was done in an even bigger failure. I'm glad we have another shooting thread where if BEG and his buddies can't do it then no one can. It's also funny that AR's can't shoot sub MOA as some on here have claimed. I have a dozen that do it. Heck even my cheaper rock river and Ruger can shoot sub MOA groups.
When people lie, it eventually catches up with them. But, I’m guessing a 7th grader would have noticed that snipers were indeed placed on a roof with a similar pitch to the one Cheatle claims was too dangerous to put people on. So many silly lies and excuses coming from a party that exists on lies and excuses.
Bigeasy, several people on the ground were yelling at the police saying there is a guy on the roof with a gun, minutes before the shooting! How non-specific and non-urgent is that?! Your buddy Crenshaw said there is ONE radio frequency used, not two.
And this is supposedly on the top of a building that has been secured INSIDE, but not on top, according to the head of the SS. Does that mean the security detail doesn’t even stand outside to see if anyone is climbing up it?!?! What? Are they just playing cards inside, looking out the window? They don’t even check to see if anyone is getting a boost up the ladder, by the local Trump hating cop?!
Jeepers bigeasy, you are turning yourself inside and out trying to make this seem like somewhat normal, understandable mistakes?! How much does the Biden admin pay you to post your stupidity?
“Your buddy Crenshaw said there is ONE radio frequency used, not two.”
No he didn’t. He said they have a common frequency, not that that was the only one used. He also clearly said the threat was never communicated to the secret service, which is impossible if it was called in on a common frequency.
“Jeepers bigeasy, you are turning yourself inside and out trying to make this seem like somewhat normal, understandable mistakes?”
Not even close to what I’m saying. It’s a massive, inexcusable failure. I’m telling you how I think it happened; that I understand how some of these barriers could have potentially failed, not that that is normal or excusable.
But again, keep putting words in my mouth and feel free to keep living life thinking I’m some sort of Biden/Dem plant. I’m happy to keep living rent free in your head.
Nothing to see here Mr. Policeman, just coming thru with my ladder, long rifle, and rangefinder... yep just climbing up this roof to make sure nothing happens to our former President, you never know what nut job will try to harm him. scentman
"One thing we have to remember here. The mental nutcase fires at will not caring where or who his bullets hit..."
If you're hateful enough to shoot at a former president, you're probably hateful enough to want to hit his supporters too. For all anyone knows, if he'd have taken Trump out, he may have continued shooting at the crowd till he was out of ammunition if he hadn't been hit by the sniper.
We don't know what was in this kid's head. We only know what's outside of it now.
Can a few of you that have the time to search the internet all day and night and go back in forth with same few in a endless circle about things that are so irrelevant to your life over and over in different but more or less the same threads, please explain the secret to having that much free time on your hand? I honestly thought it was just the guy living in his mom's basement that could do that. I feel like such a chump for not having that much free time.
spike78- is that supposed to be FUNNY???!!! The former and very probably FUTURE President of the United States came within a fraction of an inch of losing his life and 3 innocent bystanders got shot(one fatally)……………….
I have 2 friends that were there that day and one is retired (career) military and he said it was the most horrific thing he has ever experienced! His firsthand account of what happened was CHILLING! : (
That post is totally inappropriate and I hope the moderators get rid of it! Absolutely NO CLASS! for posting it!
Spike and Mike, honest question, would you prefer this assassination attempt was a government conspiracy, so you can say "I told you so", or the grossly negligent security blunder that the evidence points to?
GG you’re correct though there are no conspiracy theory’s I mean all of our politicians want to actually tax the wealthiest people even though they say that and never do. None of the contributions go in their pocket and yes they CAN afford 2 beach front properties on a Senators salary meanwhile affording to never have to eat McDonalds in their life. All the wars we have been in were for Democracy. Yup nothing at all going on.
GG honestly that’s a tough call but I just don’t believe that roof top was missed. If it was supposed to be guarded by town cops then maybe yes as they probably figured nothing would happen in a small town but if it was SS responsibility then I don’t buy it. Also if you watch the video I posted with the SS agent it looks way too suspect like he knew what was coming and to prepare for it. By all means explain that to me.
People kill people over $50, a bad break up, road rage, etc.
I would never be shocked at what people would do to control the power of the US government. That said, so far, this looks like its just a bunch of fail. After the SS head's comments, I wouldn't be too comfortable if my safety were in their hands. When you screw up, own it and fix it. Her comments were made as if she knew less than people who watched the news that day.
Spike the security agent in your video was clearing people who were standing and blocking the view of other attendees of the rally. Just like any bouncer would do at a concert. If he knew shots were coming and was complicit in it, why would he put himself in harms way to save a few innocent bystanders? Use your brain dude.
So spike, did the (unverified) SS guy have his watch synced with Crooks so he could get out of the way at the last second. And I don't think if a thousand people "explained it " to you that you would be any more inclined to see how dumb some of the stuff you post is.
Good lord, it baffles the mind that it doesn't occur to conspiracy theorists (Mike U, sundowner, spike, and others on this thread) that people can't keep secrets in their own family but yet hundreds inside and outside law enforcement would have to be in on it and they all keep their mouth shut before, during, and after. All that planning and they pick some 20 year old kid to take care of the key moment and shot.
Next it will be this kids a patsy and the shot was actually done by Hunter Biden at 1000 yards...while smoking crack and snorting cocaine off a hookers a#%.
“I'm glad we have another shooting thread where if BEG and his buddies can't do it then no one can”
Speaking of my buddies, one of them put out a good breakdown of the assassination attempt with some inside information he got. Greg worked as a local NOPD officer, government contractor overseas, and then on a local SWAT team. He left Louisiana to go work for Fieldcraft Survival in Utah. I’ve trained under him for years, and he’s a solid, standup, no BS dude, with lots of connections and contacts from his years of service.
In short, nope, not an inside job. Massive failures of communication and competence. He shares some interesting details on what the counter sniper teams were doing and what they could see. Also gives insight into the gun the shooter used - per him it was topped with an unmagnified EOTech (which he says in the video is very difficult to pull of a headshot at 150 yds with, but all you internet warriors should reach out to him and tell him he’s wrong too and that it’s a super easy shot lol). Went back and looked at the photo and what I thought was a turret cap is the Eotech logo after hearing what Greg said.
It’s a good listen if you have some time.
“It's also funny that AR's can't shoot sub MOA as some on here have claimed.”
Nobody said that. But we know…everyone is a sub-moa shooter with every gun they own on the internet.
GG after the first shot he immediately crouched down and this was after he was lowering his head in anticipation. While all the rest of SS charged the stage doing their job he stayed crouched down the entire time. If nobody thinks this is odd I don’t know what to say.
"New details coming out... SS Sniper could only see Crook's head and neck and fired 3 seconds after Crooks and hit him in the neck taking him out..."
So I was wrong and he did see him prior to the shots toward Trump. I wonder why he didn't take him out before the kid started shooting? If he could see head and neck I'm sure he could see the scope and or barrel.
They stopped a guy walking with an AK pistol and bag full of mags at the Convention. Probably not just on his way to the pawn shop to trade for a table saw.
How did the shooter get on the roof? I keep reading there was a ladder. Was the ladder a fixture on the building? Was it an extension ladder? I haven't seen a picture of it yet. Where was it located? Why wasn't said ladder secured?
First they said the cop climbed the ladder, then retreated. Then I heard the cop was on the shoulders of another cop, then lost his balance. I'm just wondering where the ladder is, there aren't a lot of buildings with an attached ladder.
News said he bought a 5' ladder. Aerial view showed a 8'-9' ladder up against the building but didnt say if it was his or could have been LE after the fact.
“If he could see head and neck I'm sure he could see the scope and or barrel.”
Maybe, maybe not. Even if they could see a gun, they still not may know who they’re looking at. They could be working to get confirmation that it isn’t another LE in that spot but never get it. Only after the shots ring out do they have enough to PID that it is a threat and not LE. The video I posted in the link above goes into that at the 18 minute mark.
Don’t know of that one, orion. I know of the one who had domestic violence charges against him dropped. Maybe you know of a different one though?
Regardless, don’t see how it’s remotely relevant to the thread or the info Greg shared; but that’s kinda your MO - contribute nothing of value to a topic and try and demean people as much as possible.
JohnMC, I suffer from the same time affliction. I tried to spend more time on the internet today but had to do some other things instead. Case in point... as the sole supplier of fellets (and the chef) of our church's anual fish-fry I had to go fishing instead. It really sucked but I managed to catch and clean a basket full. Maybe tomorrow I'll devote more time to the interwebs, or not.
Well I gotta say, you sure have to admire/respect a guy who stands up and basically gives the finger to the SOB that just shot him in face. That's some Rooster Cogburn shit right there.
"Well I gotta say, you sure have to admire/respect a guy who stands up and basically gives the finger to the SOB that just shot him in face. That's some Rooster Cogburn shit right there."
KS, I’m not buying into any conspiracy theories but think about it. Who would be easiest to recruit for something sinister like this than a dorky, loner kid who was bullied in high school? That he was a gun enthusiast but not professional could explain why he was put in close proximity to the target. I’m not claiming this to be true but it is not outside the realm of possibility.
I keep hearing about a ladder but yet no picture of it... Who had the ladder and/or who put it up... Then heard tonight, Cooks got on the roof by climbing on an air conditioner... If it was anything like the Liebert we had at my work, it was huge and I could see somebody climbing atop one to get to the roof...
“I’m not claiming this to be true but it is not outside the realm of possibility.”
Technically nothing that has been posted on this thread is outside the realm of possibility.
I put “someone” recruiting a loner 20 year old with no established skills in this arena to pull off one of the most high profile assassinations of all time with a weapon ill suited for the job below spike’s face-off/body swap theory but probably on the same level as the shooter being aided by the countless local, state, and federal law enforcement agents onsite (the help from an insider theory) as the most ridiculous theories being floated.
But sure, technically not outside the realm of possibility…
Everyone wants to argue the how, when , and ,why's, coulda, shoula, woulda.
We think we can control everything, regulate everything, stop everything....fact is....we can't.
There will always be wacko's.....take away the guns?......they will still be there. legislate, regulate, control......they will still be there. It's time to stop the nonsense, the petty bickering, the gangster image, the moral decay. One thing IS for certain....
In the face of danger, adversity and tragedy.......with blood running down his face, after being shot in the ear, and mere inches from death. Trump rose, and pumped his fist. The crowd despite, wounded and dead among the crowd, rose, and began shouting U.S.A U.S.A, U.S.A !!!!!.....They say America will rise again.....I think your wrong.
America is already on it's feet. A large percentage of us have NEVER given in to the nonsense, Trump has nothing to do with that.
You can bring, woke leaders, take our rights, our freedoms.....but we will always stand for the right, the just, and our freedom......Because it is in our hearts.
"There will always be wacko's", yeah, there's a bunch of left wingers here...
After watching spike's link to "Apparent timeline of Crooks before shooting", here is my theory of how shooter got into position by first casing the grounds of where LEOs were and maybe even getting rangefind readings first, then back to vehicle to retrieve the rifle and the 5' ladder... Probably then carrying both together trying to blend them together with likely the rifle cased or in a sock so it didn't look conspicuous while reaching the building and then deploying...
does anyone else find it interesting that the very same people who claim you cant believe anything you read in the news (and rightly so in many cases)...seem willing to believe everything they read in the news...especially if its conspiratorial in nature.
one thing ive learned over the years is that almost without fail...the initial reports of any tragedy or major news event...regardless of the outlet...are almost always wrong.
"Those are called rabbit holes, Alice. And look at you running with it. I've yet to see a post from you that's not silly conjecture or slinging crap." Funny thing about rabbit holes, all of a sudden you find yourself in the dark. But, I'm sure you have learned that many times, based on the nonsense you come up with. Unless you are too blind to see the light.
"But, I'm sure you have learned that many times, based on the nonsense you come up with. Unless you are too blind to see the light."
Says the cultist. Like I said, I've yet to see you post anything but conjecture and personal attacks. What's next CaptMike..."I know you are but what am I?"
Media is reporting he bought a 5 foot ladder and that he also drives a Hyundai Sonata. First of all how did he transport a 5 foot ladder in a Sonata and second how did he do it unnoticed?
If local or lower tier LEO'S are ordered to stand down, that does not make them part of a conspiracy, it's as simple as following orders... the orders come from the top. When our military is at war or confrontation with other countries they have been ordered not to engage, sometimes even if they are fired upon... makes you scratch your head in wonder. scentman
“does anyone else find it interesting that the very same people who claim you cant believe anything you read in the news (and rightly so in many cases)...seem willing to believe everything they read in the news..”
I would put the second “news” above in quotes, because these theories and ideas that strain reality aren’t coming from what I would call traditional “news” sources. They are coming from non-credible sources who have been largely given a voice because of the internet. Their livelihoods depend on clicks and views and unfortunately there’s enough of an audience to eat it up (who coincidentally also have a louder voice than they should because of the internet). There’s always been a subset of people who eat this stuff up and think the world works in more complex and clandestine ways than it really does and won’t accept the simple solutions.
“one thing ive learned over the years is that almost without fail...the initial reports of any tragedy or major news event...regardless of the outlet...are almost always wrong.”
Yup. But news agencies can’t win. Look at this shooting as an example and what happened with CNN, who put out a headline calling the assassination a “security incident” and describing “loud noises” instead of gunshots. They get lambasted by certain people as if they were trying to downplay or hide an assassination attempt or as if those details wouldn’t come out shortly. Wait until the facts come in to put out a story or being vague until those facts do come out will get you labeled as “fake news.”
Crooks accessed the roof of the building by climbing up exterior HVAC equipment and ductwork. He had a receipt for a ladder, but there is no evidence that he brought it to the site.
Now the story changes first it was a 5’ ladder in a Sonata now it’s a 12’ ladder that he carried a mile from Home Depot lol. Yeah ok that scrawny kid carried that a mile. So what is it FBI? Get your shit straight for the lie of 2024.
Spike- you rail against the "fake news" but post unfounded stuff all the time? Why do you post crap that's not verified nor credible? Do you not see that you are bearing false witness daily? How do you morally justify doing that?
Sean, I posted on him above. Greg is most definitely legit - both in terms of his background and in terms of his contacts providing “inside” information. As I said above, the video is a good watch and provides information that I haven’t seen anyone else really cover.
"KS I’m just posting what I find for everyone to look at and draw their own conclusions nothing wrong with that."
Then why not just wait for confirmed facts to come out? Why push unconfirmed and ponderings? Why post and push conspiracy theories and misinformation from terrible sources? Why bear false witness (pushing bad information as absolute facts)? There's a reason why it was 1 of the 10 commandments as they do damage to society and the cost is high.
The biggest question to be asked is “why was Trump on the X if the authorities knew about a suspicious person in the area 28 minutes before shots were fired”. Dan Bongino
The guy in the video proved existence of a shooter on the water tower because he typed “water tower” into a program and got 148. Then he typed Donald j trump into the same program and got 148. “There’s a lot more here than what meets the eye.” Based on these matching numbers, there must’ve been a secret trained assassin on that tower. Thank you for adding this information to the conversation it’s helping me form an educated opinion on what really happened.
Former US Navy Seal and founder of Blackwater, Erik Prince, claims that “The fact that [the Secret Service] allowed a rifle armed shooter within 150 yds to a preplanned event is either malice or massive incompetence.” (Exactly)
He went on to observe that, “unaccountable bloated bureaucracies continue to fail us as Americans,” adding that “unserious and unworthy people in positions of authority got us to this near disaster. Merit and execution must be the only deciding factors in hiring and leadership, not the social engineering priority of the day.” ( Nailed it)
Video has emerged showing that for at least two minutes law enforcement knew someone with a gun was on a roof aiming at the former President and no one communicated the need to pull Trump from the stage. You can clearly hear the crowd warning law enforcement that someone was on the roof. Yet he was unhindered until the first shots rang out. ( SS and LEO’s left Trump up on stage with a clear threat)
So what is it you died in the wool Dem excuse makers? Extreme incompetence…or malice?
“So what is it you died in the wool Dem excuse makers? Extreme incompetence…or malice?”
Not a dem and not an “excuse maker,” but as I’ve said countless times above, I’ll bet my house that this was a result of incompetence, apathy, and complacency and not deliberate, not collusion, not intentional, and not malice. People that I trust in the mil/LE community are saying the same thing.
Before the internet, spike would be the guy reading the rags at check out counters and believing the stories about the FBI hiding alien babies born to abducted earthlings.
Hmmm, some of those babies would be old enough now to be deep state snipers. And with suction cup fingers and toes, no ladder needed.
Ambush I put the videos out there that people post. Apparently there are a lot of us out there who think the same way. That’s what happens when the government really doesn’t want someone on the outside in.
Science is considering all possibilities and narrowing it down to the actual. At least that's what I'm doing.. This Bingino guy says there was supposed to be someone on that roof but the person didn't show up. I don't know if that is true. It does explain a lot to me that the other SS sniper took the guy out. Slight better angle. And video of the first 2 on white roof reactions wasn't encouraging. Not seeing the 2nd tower shooter idea. It does not bother me what theory's any of you have. Not sure why it should bother anyone. I know you guys dig up more info than I ever could..
Nice try John, but according to the Director of the Secret Service, that roof had a slope. It would be very unlikely for a potential perpetrator to attempt such a feat because of the potential harm the roof could cause him/her or they.
Biden recently was asked: "Is it acceptable that you have still not heard-at least publicly-from the Secret Service director?" Biden replied: "Oh, I've heard from him!" But the Secret Service director is a woman named Kimberly Cheatle, who he appointed.
Sounds like another big Gaf.
Cheatle apparently is the former head of security at Pepsico.
Now Joe is laying out the conditions if he was to drop out of the race... One of which is due to health issues. Yeah, how quickly reality progresses.
Spike, there are “a lot” of you out there but thankfully, as a percentage of the population you are a tiny minority. And, no, you aren’t just providing information for others to disseminate, you are trying to convince people to believe the silliness you would like to be true. You just jump from one ridiculous click bait basement blogger to another. Stop and think about the plausibility and even possibility of some of the junk you’ve linked. Your feeds are plugged up with idiot bloggers because that’s what you want to see. Algorithms guarantee you are inundated with bullshit.
Just try thinking sensibly about the logistics of there being a second water tower shooter.
And the whole body swap thing you came charging right out of the gate with. Where has that gone?
As I said earlier way above on the July 14th when I watched and listened to Beendare's video there was a late shot and that shot#11 in spike's new video "A later shot fired?" was the SS sniper's coup de grâce shot...
Would like to know how many time SS snipers hit Crooks...
And also like to know what shot Trump was hit, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd? I think it was the 1st...
I understand one rally goer, hero Comperatore was killed and rally goers David Dutch, and James Copenhaver are in critical condition, but were there other bystanders shot with lesser injuries? Nobody is saying... That other video spike posted, there was a guy in white that seemed hit and falling down a tier, or could he have been one of the two mentioned above... The other hit in that upper right grandstand which smoked was just the bullet hitting the railing... I'm not buying into a 2nd shooter...
BTW, I actually like our "Bowsite CSI", we'll figure it out...8^)
Grey Ghost, I prefer the TRUTH and don’t care how uncomfortable it makes people feel. Government incompetence just makes people feel better and they can more easily go about their daily lives. With all the incompetent, female, DEI secret service hires on full display here it could be blamed on incompetence but that’s on purpose too, Leftist Evil at work with Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. Some more Marxism for you. Quick, get your head back in the sand!
“Here's the official story so far: a random 20 year old acting completely alone”
No disagreement here.
“Walked within 150 yards of a presidential campaign rally with a rifle”
Technically yes. It’s also very easy to hide a rifle.
“climbed onto a rooftop in full view of Secret Service snipers”
This is false. He never climbed on the roof in full view of the secret service snipers, and at no point (even when he was shot) was he ever in full view.
“set up his shot and fired without anyone intervening and with no help from anyone.”
Also not true. Law enforcement was attempting to intervene.
“This 20 year old is also so politically radical as to attempt an assassination and yet not radical enough to have ever posted any political writings or commentary on any social media site ever in his life.”
No one knows what his motivation was, and it could have had absolutely nothing to do with politics.
“He also wrote no manifesto and left behind no indication about why he did it.”
Many people don’t. See the Vegas shooting as an example. There are plenty more.
“His last and only political act, before attempting to kill the Republican candidate, was to register as a Republican.”
False. He registered over two years ago. He voted after his registration. I’d call that a “political act.” We have no idea at this point about anything he did from when he registered to vote and when he pulled the trigger.
So those “facts” are a shade of misrepresentations to outright falsehoods. They also leave out a tremendous amount of context. But hey, all that context just proves how wrong that whole post is so I understand why it’d be ignored.
“Not a dem and not an “excuse maker,” but as I’ve said countless times above, I’ll bet my house that this was a result of incompetence, apathy, and complacency and not deliberate, not collusion, not intentional, and not malice. People that I trust in the mil/LE community are saying the same thing.”
So when do we hold the SS feet to the fire? They seem to be “incompetent” and “complacent” a lot lately. It doesn’t look good for them with JFK still hanging over their heads. What is it about our legal system that is sooooo difficult to grasp? If everything in politics is that secretive, I’d be nervous if I was Trump. He’s toast unless things change.
BEG must have more important insider contacts that the Ex owner of Blackwater-
So the same FBI that raided Trumps home at gunpoint, bumbled investigation after investigation, is still bungling the hunter laptop, etc- tells us- nothing to see here.
Sorry but I am skeptical. I doubt this is a CIA plot or anything like that...but everything else indicates the Biden Federal Gov left as many open windows as possible.
Question BEG; You are OK with the head of the SS whose sole job is to protect people saying, "We had the building covered from THE INSIDE...and that the roof was too sloped so they placed the snipers on the ground"
Ladder or whatever the shooter used- they didn't have anyone stationed on the OUTSIDE of the building? Nobody in the street to see a guy walking with a rifle?
Cmon. I've been harping on the stupidity of this admin- please explain how I was wrong?
It's a pattern with this admin, much like the other idiots the Biden admin has put in key positions; Transportation, State, Energy,BLM, etc- especially Majorkis- Homeland security and Rachel Lavine at HHS. Its a shit show.
With that track record....who is surprised at the incompetence at the SS?
“BEG must have more important insider contacts that the Ex owner of Blackwater”
lol no. But I have sources that I trust, many of them who I do know firsthand. Like Greg.
“Question BEG; You are OK with the head of the SS whose sole job is to protect people saying, "We had the building covered from THE INSIDE...and that the roof was too sloped so they placed the snipers on the ground"
No, I’m not. Her statements are deeply concerning - even if they aren’t true and the reason assets weren’t there had nothing to do with the slope of the roof, the fact that she would offer than up as an excuse is alarming. And I have yet to hear any details regarding how the building perimeter was supposed to be secured. Obviously whatever the plan was failed massively, and we need to understand why it failed. It’s too early to assume no one was supposed to be guarding it. And no, the snipers weren’t placed on the ground. They were in a hide site on the second floor of the building.
“they didn't have anyone stationed on the OUTSIDE of the building?”
Again, we don’t know that. There could have been someone who was supposed to be there that left their post. Again, they have yet to address what was the plan to secure the perimeter of that building and how that plan failed.
“Nobody in the street to see a guy walking with a rifle?”
I highly doubt he was just walking around with a rifle. ARs are extremely easy to conceal.
“With that track record....who is surprised at the incompetence at the SS?”
I’ll wait until more of the facts come out before I make a judgement on where the incompetence lies. Is it incompetence to depend on local or state LE to secure a building? If the local LE tasked with securing the perimeter fails at their job - through negligence, apathy, lack of capability - is it purely SS incompetence?? Again, we don’t know much on the roles and responsibilities established only that the building was outside of the SS security perimeter and operationally supposed to be covered by local/state LE. I’ll wait for more info to come out before making a judgement as to what the root cause(s) are and figuring out what specifically needs addressed.
That still doesn’t explain how this coincidental it was that he chose the ONLY spot not covered and was so sure he could get away with it. There is no way in hell I would ever think I could get in direct wide open line within a chip shot at the President it just amazes me this guy apparently thought different.
“That still doesn’t explain how this coincidental it was that he chose the ONLY spot not covered”
I don’t think that’s coincidental at all. Anyone is going to look for the security gap and try to exploit it. Again, more facts need to come out to understand why it was a gap in the first place. I read this quote from an FBI agent who summed up the heart of the matter as it centers on that building.
“What seems to be the issue now is [whether] that part of the venue should never have been given to local law enforcement, or if it was ever reviewed as a vulnerability. And then if it was assigned to local law enforcement, how it was briefed, how it was understood to control it and maintain its security?”
Those questions have yet to be addressed.
“it just amazes me this guy apparently thought different.”
I think it’s clear he thought differently than nearly everyone in the country.
What I see here is some who want to jump right to something sinister (body switching) and some who won't even consider something sinister (anyone who thinks its not just bad planning is a moron). I guess Im in the middle and hope Bowsite CSI figures it out. What about Bongino statement that the guy supossed to be on the roof of the shooter didnt show up?
"and some who won't even consider something sinister"
Actually, what I see is people waiting to see evidence before forming a conclusion, one way or the other. The evidence that we do have at the moment shows some serious incompetence and there should be serious ramifications for all involved in that incompetence.
" (anyone who thinks its not just bad planning is a moron)."
Hyperbole is a poor substitute for reason.
As someone who's been in the military and post-service has worked with more than a few government entities, I've learned that the capacity for incompetence can never be overstated.
Hey BEG- I'm just pulling your chain, all good in fact it seems you have a fairly extensive shooting background that you can apply to this...... I think we agree on much of it- a collossal fail.
Actually, I was wrong on one thing...the reports of an officer stationed on the outside of the building and spotting this guy are true- per NYT.
The officer watched the shooter make multiple trips up to the roof and Called it in long in advance of the shooting. So they knew something suspicious was going on ...BUT no-one cleared Trump off the stage until after the shooting which was much later.
Another fact, the shooter was caught with the RF inside the venue by the metal detector 3 hours in advance.
“The officer watched the shooter make multiple trips up to the roof and Called it in long in advance of the shooting. So they knew something suspicious was going on ...BUT no-one cleared Trump off the stage until after the shooting which was much later.”
Do you have a link to that info? That would be near impossible to beleive.
“Hey BEG- I'm just pulling your chain, all good in fact it seems you have a fairly extensive shooting background that you can apply to this...... I think we agree on much of it- a collossal fail.”
Just to clarify as I don’t want anyone saying I claimed something that I didn’t, my shooting experience is limited to the training classes (and competitions) I’ve shot and I have never served nor do I have first hand experience with any of the things that happened here (beyond general marksmanship standards). That said, the people I’ve trained with do and some of that training has involved concepts at play here - like scoped carbine classes that touch on subjects like cover and concealment, observation skills, and threat identification. Again, all basically taking place on a one way range.
“The officer watched the shooter make multiple trips up to the roof and Called it in long in advance of the shooting. So they knew something suspicious was going on”
This is a detail I’m keen to hear more about. From information I’ve read, it almost seems as though he made multiple trips up to and down from the roof. But again, it’s also not clear what was specifically communicated and who it was communicated to. If you see a guy going up and down from a roof but no gun, is that enough to stop a rally? Could be someone just trying to get a better view. Nonetheless, it seems like there was enough suspicious activity to make sure you kept eyes on the guy at all times, but that clearly failed to happen.
“Another fact, the shooter was caught with the RF inside the venue by the metal detector 3 hours in advance.”
I read that too. This is another one of those bits of information that beg the question of what do you do? Obviously in hindsight it’s easy to say you should do more. But in the moment, how much action are you going to take on a guy with just a rangefinder? A weird thing to have at a rally but not like it’s a banned object. Obviously as all this information gets pieced together after the fact it’s easy to see what is going on, but I could see how it would be hard to paint a compete picture in the moment. Again, not an excuse for what happened - just trying to put myself in their shoes.
That was covered in the video I posted last night, Ricky - along with other details that are now just coming out and some that have yet to come out (like the type of optic that was used). Sean D posted the video multiple times as well. That team never had a clear view and never engaged. From what was said, the team that did engage didn’t have much of a view either and pulled off a pretty incredible shot.
I’d love to see some realtime stats on the secret service. You know, just how many threats are made to any president, Obama especially? Clinton’s enjoy the best of the best in security. How many close calls have they had?
How many are actually thwarted in progress, or due to truly tight security measures?
How many credible threats have been made against Trump, yet they deny him full coverage?
Wow I’m impressed the ATF tracked down the ARs owner in 30 minutes by going through the CLOSED down gunshops records manually. I guess I’m order to do that they would have had to literally pick the correct gunshop on the first try. So they went from an average of 24 hours to 30 minutes not too shabby!
They call DPMS and get what distributor it was sold to, call the distributor and find out what dealer it went to and when, dealer is out of business so that means the ATF has all their records in-house, pull the log books for that dealer and that month and you have the identity of the customer.
“An interruption to Gator's "truth".... SS snipers first spotted the shooter on the roof 20 minutes before he opened fire.”
That’s not what other reports are saying. They’re saying the local sniper team - not the secret service team - saw him, and it sounds like it wasn’t on the roof. Sounds like ABC has mixed up some details if you ask me as they are the only outlet reporting it that way. The link above is what everyone else is saying and reporting regarding the timeline leading up to the shooting. Regardless, I said it above, no one has really put out a verified timeline of what happened when, and it still seems like there are conflicting details out there.
"Turns out he wasn’t such a bad shot after all dead nuts."
That's a good simulation, but for all we know, he was shooting center mass, lifted his head and shanked the shot. That video implies his breathing was controlled and he had a perfect squeeze of the trigger. 20 years old, no military training, hot roof and without a doubt a high stress situation. His heart was pounding and probably having an anxiety attack. We don't even know if the rifle was sighted in, do we? The bullet could just have easily hit Trump in the nuts. Thankfully the results were basically just a very scary scratch.
Yes, Spike may take it a little far. But curious what it would take for guys like BEG to even consider there might be something more to it than negligence? I mean how many "roof was sloped and too dangerous to get on" type of excuses would you have to hear before you had to say "hmm, this isn't adding up?"
At this point I am stuck in the middle. Likely just a failure and some one off guy trying to kill Trump. But after what has happened to that man the past 7.5yrs I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it wasn't an accident. But the guy just missed
I pray for all the presidential candidates safety.
I also pray we don't have 4 more years of what we've had. It just baffles my mind how we got to where we're at as a nation. I'm afraid God may have given us over, as a nation, to what we "think" we want. Boils down to spiritual warfare over this country, not Democrat vs Republican.
“That's a good simulation, but for all we know, he was shooting center mass, lifted his head and shanked the shot.”
Not to mention, he was looking at a sight picture that looked more like the photo above than anything that resembled that simulation. But nonetheless, it shows how freaking close it was.
“I mean how many "roof was sloped and too dangerous to get on" type of excuses would you have to hear before you had to say "hmm, this isn't adding up.”
One more point on this. If I heard it from someone who was actually boots on the ground I’d go “hmmm.” As it is, I don’t put much stock in what is basically an administrator with no real operational experience who likely had nothing to do with any of the details in planning the security.
It's doesn't give you any pause that a person in that high level of a position could put out a statement like that and expect people to believe it. It's either that person is so damn stupid that they actually believe that. Or think that most Americans aren't smart enough to know that they are full of crap Neither one is good. If they truly expect the American people to believe that. What else would they expect us to believe?
Just like covid. Liquor stores and smoke shops were allowed to stay open because they are "essential" and the haircut places had to shut down. And people actually went with it. So after things like that, they might actually be right. There are enough Americans dumb enough to believe whatever we are told. WTF is going on?
“It's either that person is so damn stupid that they actually believe that. Or think that most Americans aren't smart enough to know that they are full of crap Neither one is good.”
Agree 100%. And my guess is that the people really responsible for making the security plan are even more upset with her comments than the average person is.
“What else would they expect us to believe?”
What do politicians expect? Probably expect gullible Americans to gobble up what they’re saying hook, line, and sinker. Politicians making things up is nothing new; neither is people believing it. That’s why I try my damndest to not listen to them.
Bigeasy, and grey ghost, I’m wrong, I’ve figured it out, you are correct, it wasn’t a planned assassination by the government. It was just incompetence.
They made it sooooo incompetent that a 20 yr old kid, with no military background, living in his parents basement could take his Dad’s gun, stroll over to a Trump rally, climb on the roof of a building just 150 yds from the Trump stage, all while people on the ground are yelling to the cops about the guy on the roof with a gun, then he could lay down, have a cop show up on the roof, point his gun at him, then he runs away, and then the kid can take several shots at a former President of the United States of America!
The incredible incompetence of this was not planned out in any way. Hiring a female DEI hire, Kimberley Cheatle, had nothing to do with it, along with all of the useless female DEI, Secret Service agents who can’t even holster a gun, they had nothing to do with any sort of planning too. SS Snipers absent from the closest rooftops, not planned, just incompetence. Incompetence, incompetence, no Evil planning to take out the opposition to sleepy Joe, living in his own basement.
The deep state Marxist bureaucracy screws things up so badly that nothing can possibly seem planned, it’s all just incompetence.
And bigeasy, a deep state, Biden bureaucrat himself, assigned to the bowsite.com file counters more misinformation and disinformation. Yayyy!!
Seems interesting huge short interest on DJT stock day before attempted assassination on Trump. Also shorted airlines right before 9/11. I’m just reporting guys don’t shoot the messenger.
mike, you left out that security stopped the kid because he had a rangefinder but they left him through only for law enforcement to lose sight of him because he was sooooo elusive. and, as beg posted above, "ARs are extremely easy to conceal." LOL.
and even though the kid was acting suspicious, they left trump get on the stage rather than delay him so they could locate the kid - you know the phrase, as an 'abundance of caution'.
Boy, my theory above about hit the nail on the head:
"here is my theory of how shooter got into position by first casing the grounds of where LEOs were and maybe even getting rangefind readings first, then back to vehicle to retrieve the rifle and the 5' ladder"
Reports now saying there is evidence Crooks was at the site days before casing the location and was actually stopped by security at some point Saturday with the range finder but let go and now there is cell phone video from about an hour before the shooting of him in the background standing and lurking around in front the ARG building (assuming he had the range finder) and then think at that point he left to retrieve the rifle concealed in a backpack...
He probably seen LEOs were inside the building and figured out a path he could reach the ARG building undetected with a rifle and climbed to the roof over the big HVAC unit...
"The deep state Marxist bureaucracy screws things up so badly that nothing can possibly seem planned, it’s all just incompetence."
"And bigeasy, a deep state, Biden bureaucrat himself, assigned to the bowsite.com file counters more misinformation and disinformation. Yayyy!!"
This has all the hallmarks of mental instability and I'll bet Mike U has heard that before in his personal life. I think "deep state" is a right wing nut buzz word "coocoo for coco puffs." Also topped with a heavy scoop of sexism. The total off-the-rails combination.
Hey Mike, what's a college drop out 14 year experienced expert sniper doing as an outfitter anyway. I'll bet the SS is going to be looking for some new employees soon. Step up and go work for them and get'em on the right track. Oh wait...I'm guessing you won't pass the psychological exam. Dang it.
Brian- you don't need "military training" to be an excellent shot. Most of the infantry military guys I've hunted and shot with shoot worse than most rednecks. Even most cops have something like a 20% hit rate.
Saw a few more details being reported that hadn't been touched on, and make sense in the context of describing how the failure might have happened.
One, he was not labelled a "threat" until he retrieved his weapon and climbed on the roof. Until then, he was just a "person of interest." Different protocols around those two characterizations. It's not clear when he "retrieved his weapon" or when they knew he had a weapon as I imagine it was concealed in his backpack until he was on the roof. No excuse for losing track of him as they seem to have done, and I'll be keen to hear a little bit more about the different protocols.
The other detail I saw being reported was that "the top Secret Service agent in charge of securing the rally was speaking to local police on the phone as the shooting took place." As I mentioned above, if they were not communicating the details about the threat on shared communications and instead on a phone it helps explain how there could have been a massive breakdown in communication.
JHC.... I love a conspiracy theory (or two) just as much as the next tinfoil hat wearing person....But holy phuc batman, if this was an coordinated inside job 'tween the CIA, FBI, SS, and any other alphabet agency, you would think would have recruited a more competent trigger man, with magnified optic, perhaps something more accurate ;) , maybe a little more training on survailing an area, how to stay UN-observered.
This was a massive, colossal, charlie foxtrot, of a security failure. Top down. And regardless if the building was under local LE control, overall security and ALL teams are under the control of SS. Or should be.
KSflatlander you crack me up, mental instability claim, in an attempt to discredit me, haha. I take 100 hunters per year, thousands of them over the years, many of them here on bowsite, doubt any of them will pipe up and say I’m mentally unstable. Been running the same successful business for over 30 years. College education, been married for 20 years, have 2 wonderful, normal kids. I’m surrounded by family and friends all the time. Love life! And I’m crazy, got it, haha
I simply understand the big picture of the attack against the Western World by Globalists, Marxism and clueless, indoctrinated leftists like yourself. It comes in many forms, DEI hires to destroy the Secret Service protection is a great method and give Trump rallies the most incompetent ones.
They refused to even give Robert Kennedy Jr., a Presidential candidate, any protection until this assassination attempt. Now they are reluctantly doing it. Why was he ever refused it? I know, just an oversight, whoops, not planned, got it. Nothing to worry about.
"College education, been married for 20 years, have 2 wonderful, normal kids. I’m surrounded by family and friends all the time. Love life!"
Me too. See we have some thing in common. Then why not act like a rational person? Why act like you are off the deepend and bash the SS and other federal law enforcement. You're not even an American. Step up...you got the skills and temperament, right. Go do something to fix it.
"They refused to even give Robert Kennedy Jr., a Presidential candidate, any protection until this assassination attempt. Now they are reluctantly doing it. Why was he ever refused it?"
I believe there are laws that determine who, when, and how much secret service gets used.
My wife and both my kids are US Citizens and almost all of my customers come from the USA. I care deeply about what happens to the USA and Canada!
“Why not act like a rational person?” This from a guy who thinks a woman can have a penis, same as bigeasy. You can’t become any more irrational and ridiculous than that, sorry I can’t join that team.
Back to the details and facts as we learn them, please.....
Bongino said a SWAT/CS team was actually sitting in one of those buildings, using a second story window (instead of that roof). There should be a printed Secrete Service survey report showing the original plan, that should no longer be classified (because you KNOW that will be the next excuse). He bets that official survey plan will show a counter sniper team was supposed to be on that mild sloped roof. (Which also confirms the obvious lie from SS boss lady who was scared on a gently sloped roof!)
If true, we then hope to hear from those police snipers and find out why they were not in the original assigned positions. Or who might have approved that change, if not on their own. Maybe they just didn't want to sit on a hot tin roof in the sun??
Bongino reported today the local police snipers stated they were snipers not counter snipers so that was why they chose the 2nd story window and the USSS approved it.
Hmmmmm. THIS news story is saying investigators briefed lawmakers that the US Secret Service snipers saw the would be assassin on the roof 20 minutes before he started shooting. Sounds like that is the official story and timeline as of right now...!!
Need to walk them through the streets like Game of Thrones ringing that bell, chanting "Shame.... Shame...." ??
Yeah BowSniper, the video I posted the other day from Greg Lapin and Fieldcraft Survival went into that a little (starting at about 17 minutes I believe). They had a hide site on the second floor, and they were the ones who took the picture of him with the range finder 20 minutes before the shooting. It sounds like they expected to keep the building secure with a combination of the counter snipers in the building (doesn’t sound like they were supposed to be on the roof) and boots on the ground around the perimeter. Greg mentioned they called in support to come interrogate Crooks, lost sight of him, and by the time the officers on the ground got there he was up on the roof and they couldn’t locate him. Will be interesting to hear why it took officers so long to get there and locate him - combination of not enough officers, perhaps distracted by other things, who knows.
“ Hmmmmm. THIS news story is saying investigators briefed lawmakers that the US Secret Service snipers saw the would be assassin on the roof 20 minutes before he started shooting. Sounds like that is the official story and timeline as of right now...!!”
I think ABC is confusing the secret service with the local sniper team. The ABC news outlets are the only one reporting that, everyone else is saying it was the local team that saw him 20 minutes before (annd it was on the ground, not the roof) and called for support to check him out. That’s when they took and circulated that picture of him that looks like he’s crawling on the ground.
Good recap BEG. Maybe we are not yet fully certain of the players and timeline.
How about the number of shots this kid Crooks fired off? Is there an official number? Super easy to know for sure just by counting brass..... they must deliberately not be saying.
I love how nobody thinks the Deep state exists and thinks it’s a conspiracy theory. Let me explain when elites contribute millions to politicians they therefore buy them and command them to do whatever they want. What is so hard to understand? This whole country is run on the ole green back and nobody gives an eff about any of us slaves nobody. If you think otherwise you are a gullible idiot period end of story. Have you guys seen the video of all the bank vultures in Ukraine right now taking advantage of the war? You better believe Zelensky is way richer now.
They are now saying from the timeframe of about an hour before the shooting, Crooks was videoed on cell phone of him in the background lurking around in front the ARG building and he then left to retrieve the rifle but not from his car but hidden somewhere near the building...
Also, just seen an interview with a former Secret Service agent and when asked if agents require a green light from their commanding officers to shoot if they see a threat... He said they do not require any okay from their superiors to shoot, and it's not to shoot to wound to disable, but they have the green light to shoot to kill anytime they see a threat...
Do you mean to say that the deep state is all about the lust for money and power?? And people are willing to engage in corruption and cruelty to get more of it?!! Did this exist before al gore invented the internet? Before Rome fell and the first Pope? Geez man, get this info out there!!
Funny BEG keeps quoting field craft survival. For someone who doesn't like conspiracy theories that is 60% of Mike's videos. The FBI is after him and shutting his business down, taking down his content, etc.
“How about the number of shots this kid Crooks fired off? Is there an official number? Super easy to know for sure just by counting brass..... they must deliberately not be saying.”
I haven’t heard anything. Just the video where Greg said the second sniper team took the fatal shot, and that three rounds got off and then he was engaged by the USSS counter sniper team. But he didn’t really say if it was only three shots from Crooks definitively.
Yeah, I'd like to know who fired how many shots... That one video defined 11 shots total, first 3, then a short gap, then 7 more to 10, then the late coup de grâce (I think)...
Mike U, a great explanation! When people have such convoluted thoughts and are unable to distinguish a man from a woman, it is difficult to give credence to anything else they may say.
So for those of you that might know if this was the case. Why did the policeman who climbed up the ladder, saw the shooter as he swing his rifle towards the officer; instead of climbing back down the ladder to inform his office, why didn't the officer just blow on his whistle very loud or even fired off his side arm a few times to attract attention to the shooter?
He wasn't on a ladder, another LEO give him clasp hand boot up and cop grabbed edge of roof with both hands and looked over... Shooter pointed his gun and the cop fell back, actually getting hurt and they immediately relayed to their command but that is when shooting started...
I'm hoping the reports of him on the roof for 20-30 minutes aren't accurate. The building the indoor snipers were in looks to have at least a couple second story windows on the same floor they were stationed with a view of the one story rooftop he was on. Sounds like they were positioned at windows on the other side but if you lose a suspicious person and there are reports he's on a roof in your group of buildings it would seem taking a look would be prudent. Makes me think the 20-30 minute on the roof report may be inaccurate.
Trump said SS sniper 1 shot, one kill... So if that was the 11th shot, it took them a few seconds to get on target... So doing the math, shooter shot 10 rounds, probably had a 10-round magazine which makes sense using the prone position...
Glunt, seems the local sniper team spotted him on the ground 20 minutes before the shooting took place, but then they lost track of him. It’s unclear if he was up on the roof before that time as some reports have suggested, and it’s also unclear at this stage what happened in that 20 minutes after he was spotted on the ground (where did he go, when did he access the roof, why weren’t there officers closer by on the ground to intercept him before they lost sight of him).
Only pic I've seen sorta showing the rifle. Appears to be a pretty standard AR with a 30 round length magazine. Plenty of lower capacity mags that are full length so no telling at this point.
We're all just speculating. With all the flack they are getting, releasing a solid timeline with some detail, pics and transparency would help. The less people are allowed to know the more it feeds doubt. I have no need to see their whole detailed plan. Thats probably best not being public. The parts that failed, why they failed and why they won't fail in the future are what matters.
I've never posted on anything more than 200 posts in bowsites existence. I will post this. It was a complete and total security/communication failure between the SS leadership, perimeter Security and the local LEO's. This crap about the alphabet agencies in cahoots with a 20 yr. old loser who maybe shot daddy's AR a few times being a designated patsy is laughable. Sloped roofs and all that crap....good lord. Fire the director and apologize to the families impacted. Galling that no one wants to take responsibility for this amazing failure. I'm out of here.
"Guy on news wants to know why it took 26 seconds to kill the assassin after his first shot"
not sure where the guy on the news is getting 26 seconds. from what i saw on the video...from first shot to last shot...it took about 4 seconds.
the timeline (at link) says the same thing
6:11:33 p.m.: First shot fired As Trump was talking about immigration, the first shot from the would-be assassin was fired.
6:11:34 p.m.: Two more shots fired The second and third shots from the sniper came one second later. All three shots came from Trump's right.
6:11:37 p.m.: More gunshots heard Three seconds later, several rapid gunshots are heard. At least three more shots were fired, followed by what sounded like an outgoing shot, as the crowd erupted into screams.
No Ricky, there was a late shot (final shot) after the first 10,,, You can actually hear it in your video posted just before the blood curling scream, it was at about the 15-16 second mark not 26 second, see link:
Boy this article sure fuels my crazy conspiracy theory ideas. How many of you would have called the police on your son being 20 and missing? Also no AR seen.
What about any of that fuels your conspiracy theories? A family being worried about their son? Seems like contacting law enforcement would be pretty standard if you’re worried and hadn’t heard from him.
Regarding the AR, it’s no surprise it wasn’t seen. Pop the two takedown pins and you can fit an AR into basically a school backpack. Takes mere seconds to reassemble. I’d bet that’s what he did.
I did find the timeline in the article you posted interesting, spike. It says Secret Service didn’t know about a suspicious person until 5:52pm. This was 40 minutes after he was first identified by local law enforcement and also 7 minutes after the local counter sniper team spots him and “calls it in.” Who did they call it in to if USSS doesn’t know about Crooks until 5:52? Again, will be interesting to understand what specifically was being communicated to the USSS during the lead up.
“That is still a long time...”
To locate and engage an individual 150 yards from you who is mostly concealed and not offering much of a shot? I don’t think it is. Furthermore, that last shot could have easily been a follow up shot as Crooks may have been moving slightly while the life left his body. I believe I heard somewhere that local LE may have shot to, so it’s likely that volley of fire after the first three shots included USSS/LE taking shots. We don’t know yet. But I suspect that shot at 16 seconds wasn’t the first shot on Crooks. Speculation, but we’ll see.
BEG what I’m wondering is why his father called the police? Was he missing or acting weird? Was he not home for 1 or 2 days? He’s 20 not 12. I’m guessing his father called him and got no answer on the phone. Hmm it’s almost like he was held against his Will or something. Nah crazy
I read somewhere he was missing for over 24 hours, but can’t find where are read that so I wouldn’t treat it as fact. I’m sure his father tried to get in touch with him and he was ignored - but I guess I’m not like you and I don’t think that’s compelling proof that he was kidnapped or killed, spike. More likely to me is that he was focusing on his plan and ignoring outside distractions. Also seems that as more details come out it looks like Crooks was just trying to do something big and go down in history.
I'm preparing my house for a litter of puppies so I'm at and in the house all the time TV on news 24x7 since Trump was shot, so I hearing all the updates and some were coming in like hourly for a while...
"that last shot could have easily been a follow up shot as Crooks may have been moving slightly while the life left his body"
I initially thought that too, a coup de grâce shot, but according to Trump, only a single shot from a single SS sniper killed the shooter (was said earlier that shot was in the neck), Trump likely would have that intel to know what hasn't been released to the public...
"I believe I heard somewhere that local LE may have shot to, so it’s likely that volley of fire after the first three shots"
Yeah, I heard that too from one of the Butler County officials, and at the time he said a local LEO did shoot at the assassin but only that he did not hit him... He did not say how many times he fired... What we do know for sure is there were 4 victims at different locations, Trump, the hero fireman and the two critically wounded... Then there is video of a verified missed shot that hit railing, so the shooter fired at least 5 times...
Soooo, after reviewing links provided above the first 3 shots from the assassin seemed to be aimed at Trump... Then there was a burst of 5 shots, shots 4 - 8 which I would assume he was firing at the crowd... Then you hear a double tap from a different sounding gun, likely/possibly the local LEO taking shots 9 and 10... And then the 11th and final shot from the SS sniper... 3 guns total... 8 shots total from the assassin... How there were no more than 4 victims is a miracle... God bless them...
There is a report today from senator Josh Hawley that USSS whistleblowers tell him that “most” of the assumed USSS staff on site were not true USSS but were “borrowed” from DHS and they did not have adequate training or experience for this event….??
Could possibly be, Jeff. That video I keep referencing had some information related to that. As Greg says in the video, extra security had been denied due to resourcing issues, and Greg makes a good point that regardless of his profile, Trump is not in the current line of succession in the government, so it’s going to factor into the resources he gets. His security detail was augmented following the potential Iranian assassination plot, and that many of the agents were part of that augmentation (specifically the female agent who is taking a lot of criticism for her tactics). Again, sounds like manpower was tight so wouldn’t surprise me if these recent additions came from outside the Secret Service.
Actually, he did say the second USSS counter sniper was a recent addition. Before there was only one. Said those guys (the counter snipers and counter assault teams you see) were squared away. Could have been a lot worse if that second CS team hadn’t been added.
I think the length of time it took for them to shoot had to deal with the information they were being fed, difficulties of operating in a permissive environment, and the difficulty visualizing, ID’ing, and confirming the threat.
rumor mill wide open-I heard some congressman say on TV the kid had 3 encrypted overseas bank accounts? Today I heard AK47 on TV not AR15.I also heard he was shot by a local PD countersniper.
A bunch of contradicting reports. Big one being 5:52 time line. Some say he is spotted on the ground around the building and some say he was spotted by LE on the roof. Thats 20 minutes before shooting.
Media would rather report ANYTHING (even if it's wrong) than to report nothing. And the big dogs in politics will make sure to have their own butts covered before feeding us parts of the truth.
They are all contradicting reports and the media is controlled on what they put out so it looks like unlike JFK the new process is confuse the public now that we have social media.
"No Ricky, there was a late shot (final shot) after the first 10,,, You can actually hear it in your video posted just before the blood curling scream..."
that doesnt sound like a gunshot to me but it could be...i dont profess to be any kind of forensics expert.
Apparently Newsweek reported on a Morning Consult Poll https://www.newsweek.com/trump-shooting-assassination-conspiracy-theory-staged-biden-poll-1925723
33% and 12 % of Republicans crazy. I said 34% it was 33% that believe it might have been staged. That is a lot
Well, wording matters in polls. Saying it being staged was “credible” isn’t exactly the same as saying that’s what happened. Nonetheless, it’s sad that that many people would call it credible. That said, I bet that a far greater percentage would find it “credible” that Crooks had inside help.
lol! Beg spews word salad to minimize a poll that highlights the crazy people he defends, then follows it up with his own “fact” that more people support a different theory. Then finishes by trying to cover his ass saying “neither is credible” right after he spews it. The hypocrisy is rich
Bigeasy, you are awesome! So much bullshit. A paid Biden admin, deep state plant on bowsite to counter misinformation, that’s exactly who you are! Consistently posts one thing after another. Never admits to the ridiculousness of it all!
"Well, wording matters in polls. Saying it being staged was “credible” isn’t exactly the same as saying that’s what happened."
The point here is spot-on; saying something "could" have happened is definitely not the same as saying it "did" happen.
"That said, I bet that a far greater percentage would find it “credible” that Crooks had inside help."
Probably a safe bet; we seem to have a few posts that suggest that threshold might be crossed and if one recalls history there were a significant number of people who did (and still do) maintain 9/11 was an inside job.
"Both theories are bananas and not credible."
Incompetence doesn't sell as well as the more nefarious alternatives; sadly, sometimes the truth is the first casualty in things other than war.
One final point; poll numbers only reflect the responses of those surveyed who provided an answer to the survey question. It's inaccurate to posit that they represent the entirety of a demographic when in reality it's merely the sample pool that's captured in the poll.
“However, this source said hiding the rifle in his backpack would require a significant amount of disassembling and reassembling the rifle, and that the more likely scenario is that Crooks hid the rifle behind the AC unit.“
Tell me you don’t know shit about AR’s without telling me.
Didn’t his dad see him leave home with the rifle that afternoon? If so, he would have a hard time walking around with it in the open with all the LE already there.
There's literally a hundred things that could have happened. All the conspiracies aside, I can see how the guy got away with it. I occasionally hunt a fairly large wooded property on the edge of town owned by some of my commercial customers. Depending on the wind, I will park in various parking lots to access it. Every buck I've shot out of it save one, was with a bow. I can tell you for a fact that people are completely oblivious at the nearby businesses and houses the few times I carried a suppressed rifle in there. They also had no idea when I quartered the bucks and packed them out. I also own a 7.5" AR in .300 blackout that I can easily hide in my coat. We live in an age of overweight guys and wannabes that devote all their time to watching entertainment and football. Most of the hunters on here would have picked up on that shooter long before any other lay person would have.
Well I guess we will find in a few months if this was an inside job or not. I guess nobody finds it odd that a software update took out all the computers in the world. Also odd is that the owner of Crowdstrike was in the FBI for 24 years and retired. When you guys are done with coincidences let me know.
Here Tom. I'll save myself the time arguing with stupid people who claim to make "all the medical equipment" that I use. All ARs are broken into two main parts by two pins that are easily pushed out in a few seconds.
I find it amusing it was reported that he had pictures of both Biden and Trump on his phone. Yeah I guess he needed the pics to id them in his scope. This is so shady it raises the BS meter. Another odd thing is why did the FBI conclude it was a lone gunman in less than 24 hours before it concludes its investigation?
Call me anything you want, and I'll call you a grey haired weasel with a wrench. There's nothing I do that you can do. End of story. BtW, I'm 5'11" 210 and I've never been called pudgy, and I've never hired an employee in 20 years in my lawn and tree business that can out work me.
Uh-oh, looks like it's time to play "who's the baddest bad-ass of bowsite" again. A few of you seem to do this quite often, I find it amusing so I say keep on keeping on!
On another note, Spike78, in all seriousness are your posts mainly to mess with people or do you really believe the stuff you post?
Hunter I believe it 100% until proven otherwise. Sorry but with this much eff ups there is only one conclusion to come to. The CIA did experiments on mind control in 1954 do you think they are not advanced now in 2024?
Now just doing some thinking here. The picture shows his phone and apparently a bomb remote that is basically a garage door opener but NO range finder that they said he had. Now let’s focus on the shot preparation. If I were to do a once in a lifetime shot on a target like this being the head which is not a huge target I would most certainly practice at the range at ALL distances. Most people like Cooks father would sight in their rifle for shorter ranges as it is an AR. Cooks supposedly bought 50 rounds before the shooting and would have had to for certain bring his dads gun to the range and shot quite a few to prepare for the shot of a lifetime. I have shot my AR for years but I can damn sure tell you I have no idea what it hits at 150 yards. And to take a head shot with no dope card is very suspect. Also he would have had to literally know the exact distance that he was faced with like he practiced at the range. Take Trumps ear and move the shot over and it was literally as perfect as you can get. I know some of you will say different but I put myself in his shoes and it all must be perfect and nothing less.
Spike 78- Why would you need a dope card for a .223/5.56 at 150 yds? It doesn't even drop an inch at that range last I checked, especially with a 100 yd zero. Just aim right at the target. I don't start using my ballistics charts until I shoot past 300, and at 300 with most high powers, you just place the crosshairs on the back of the animal.
Do I think it was a conspiracy among several different alphabet government agencies? No. Do I think it’s possible someone high up in the food chain made a “political decision” to allow something bad to happen. Absolutely.
Because Thornton how did the shooter know the yardage he was shooting when he sighted in the gun? His classmates said he was such a bad shot that he was dangerous when he tried out for the team. I’ve shot a ton of calibers but imo it doesn’t matter if you want to shoot someone in the head at an unknown distance you have to know the gun inside and out. Hell he didn’t even own the rifle.
We don’t know if he was trying to take a headshot, he was shooting an unmagnified red dot and not a scope, that said with a 100 yd zero you should still be in the headbox at 150 yds, and that video of “someone” on the water tower looks like it could be Bigfoot, spike. Have they said anything about Bigfoot being the shooter in your circles, spike??
Yeah maybe he was good out to 150 but he didn’t know how far he would be out. So he came in there KNOWING that he would be able to get into direct line of the SS at 150? I read he is quite the smart guy so not buying it.
" I have shot my AR for years but I can damn sure tell you I have no idea what it hits at 150 yards. " That's sad..... you've just been wasting ammunition IMO
Your choice for bear is a .223? How many have you killed with your .223? As Thornton mentioned if you're sighted in for 100 yards with a .223 the drop at 150 yards is negligible.
I did not know he was using a red dot. That simplifies things quite a bit IMO. I still remember calling in a coyote to 100 yds for my SWAT team police chief friend. He was using his issued AR with an expensive Aimpoint on it and he missed that coyote when it moved. I do not think he would have missed with a magnified scope. Either way, those red dots have various MOA sizes and 150 yds ish would not offer the precision even a fixed 4x scope would
"There's nothing I do that you can do. End of story. BtW, I'm 5'11" 210 and I've never been called pudgy, and I've never hired an employee in 20 years in my lawn and tree business that can out work me."
Thornton, you are always on here calling people fat. I thought you were a nurse. You should know that a simple BMI calculator shows 5'11" and 210# as overweight. LOL.
Yes, we all know you're the best at everything you do. No need to remind us.
I'll be the first to admit I wouldn't hit a target the size of a head every time at 150 yards since I don't shoot many rifles. I'm sure this dweeb wasn't that experienced and was probably quite nervous doing so. Not out of the question he barely missed.
Yeah I agree, my friend is a SWAT SEAL DEA CIA Sniper and I called a red squirrel in with a grass reed whistle “call”. He ate seven black walnuts and then came to the call. It was NUTS. I have it all on my Nurses YouTube OnlyFans account. But it ended up with me and my cousin on a row boat and this big bear sleeping by a log so I didn’t bother him during normal nighttime hours. Man what a cool time.
Mythbusting the assasination attempt, including the idea of the assassination being staged and a discussion of expected accuracy of a low-mid grade AR-15 (with an unmagnified optic).
"So now the shooter has 3 overseas accounts and Iran is being brought up."
Spike, what kind of accounts? Like Swiss bank accounts that just got large sums of money deposited recently. Or offshore live chat with Asian girls accounts. You know, like the kind that come up on all the links you provide.
Now one of his shooting club members is saying he was a great shot. Info keeps changing which is normal in these investigations. I'm not surprised either that 1/3 of Biden supporters think Trump staged his own assassination. TDS continues to be strong.
"he was shooting an unmagnified red dot and not a scope"
Where has that been confirmed, I don't believe it was an UNscoped gun... At 150 yards, the red dot is too large to be pin point accurate, same with open iron sights....
In the video I posted where Greg Lapin shared that detail after discussions with sources inside the Secret Service (linked again - that video included other details not reported at the time that have now been confirmed; he discussed the optic at the 17:30 mark). You can make out the Eotech logo if zoom in on pics of the shooter. And yes, that was my whole point when I discussed accuracy expectations at 150 yards with an unmagnified object. Like Greg says, that’s a difficult shot under calm conditions. Even with a magnified optic, a head shot is pushing the limits of accuracy with a low end AR and factory ammo (like Garand Thumb posted in the other video I posted this morning, 3moa is pushing it with that gear). With an unmagnified optic it’s essentially down to luck.
Unless there was a better rifle out there somewhere. Ambush sorry I can only post what garbage the media feeds me. I also watched a video now saying the DHS trains at the gun range Crooks shoots at. But let’s recap this I’m going to assassinate someone and it will probably be my last day so I borrow my dads gun which is a cheap AR with a red dot unmagnified scope which mind you I have no idea of yardage until the day of which lucky me I’m only 140 yards out!!! Yay. So I buy a measly 50 rounds to practice with actually not even since I had some in my mag. I successfully fly my drone around not seen and I drove to the site, rode my bike, and walked from Home Depot all at the same time with a ladder. There is a sweet picture of me going around where I’m crawling on the ground cuz that’s not suspicious although my gun and backpack are not in the same picture. Now it says he hid his gun beforehand so he somehow knew where to go and hide his gun and then get lucky enough to make it back to his gun with no suspicion. Yeah definitely legit.
And here is the real Nich Nuche the Douche. Why don't you STFU and stick with that tearful apology you gave us 8 years ago when you admitted you're actually a prick that likes to offend everyone. I saved a copy of that thread somewhere. I wasn't talking to you, and if I do, I will address you just like I am now, and how I did that weasel looking fellow from PA that has never contributed anything but smart ass comments to this site. Make fun of my profession all you want, but I guarantee I make a lot more than you do only working 3 days a week and I get every single hunting trip off I ask for, not to mention I get to save and improve lives. You'll never understand that feeling.
So I did a shooting experiment this weekend at the gun range with friends from high school. Rookie shooters who don't even own a gun. I let them try a similar shot at the range with my match grade AR rifle (JP grade 1, fluted 18" barrel and 2lb trigger) in .223 using 55gr bullets, with a true 1x pro-point red-dot sight, aiming at a 5-6" balloon, at both 100yds and 200yds (my range does not have the option for 150yds). Using a bipod, seated at a table, and no sandbags. In hindsight, I probably should have made the test balloon bigger.
Both novice shooters managed to hit the little 100yd balloon on the 2nd or 3rd try, but they could not hit the 200yd balloon at all in 3 tries. Note - I was able to hit the balloon on the first try at both distances, but I would say the sight picture was TINY and much tougher than I remembered from precision shooting a decade ago. FWIW - I am 59 now and my eyes are not what they used to be....
Just for kicks, I was also able to pop the 100yd balloon using a 16" barrel S&W AR in .22LR and a 4x scope that was zero'ed for 50yds by holding 6" over.
For comparison, with a .308 bolt-action police sniper type rifle with magnified optics, the novice shooters could easily pop 6" balloons on their first try all the way out to 300 yards. One novice was even able to hit a lollipop at 100 yards on his first try! Having a scope with crosshairs and zoom magnifications makes ALL the difference, no matter which rifle.
Was really keen to hear how the tests went, BowSniper. Did they give that MOA all day target a go as well at 50 yards? Regardless, sounds like at 100 yards with an unmagnified red dot their groups would have been 5-6 moa at best, eh?
Here is a photo of what my setup with red dot looks like at range.... this showing smallest dot setting at 300 yards with the 100 and 200 yard lines in foreground.
I didn't think to take pics with balloons and such. Was distracted showing the guys a fun day at the range but also being safety officer and tour guide. LOL
I should have put fresh cardboard behind the balloons to evaluate group size... but fair to say the novice test showed 4-6 MOA with unmagnified red dot. And results were about the same, several misses and one 'nick'!
First off, nobody has been able to confirm and tell us the rifle was mounted with an unmagnified Red Dot rather than a scope... Somebody please tell us where to find this confirmation...
Red Dots MOA begin 1MOA which covers sight area of 1.047", 2MOA is 2.094", and keeps going up, each MOA number is basically one more inch at 100 yards... 6MOA basically covers 6" of target area at 100 yards, (6.282" to be more precise)... Most have higher than 3MOA meaning less precise accuracy... Cheap Red Dots are pretty useless beyond 50 yards or so, I know I mounted one on a rifle once, it didn't last long and reason you don't see Red Dots on varmint rifles...
A Congress House Oversight Committee has Secret Service director Cheatle on stand right now, and most of the House democrats want to talk about gun control and how bad ARs are and banning assault style weapons...
They have confirmed the shooter fired off 8 round, as I said in an earlier post above: "Soooo, after reviewing links provided above the first 3 shots from the assassin seemed to be aimed at Trump... Then there was a burst of 5 shots, shots 4 - 8 which I would assume he was firing at the crowd... Then you hear a double tap from a different sounding gun, likely/possibly the local LEO taking shots 9 and 10... And then the 11th and final shot from the SS sniper... 3 guns total... 8 shots total from the assassin"
“Somebody please tell us where to find this confirmation...”
Greg saying it in that video is all the confirmation I need. That said, you can basically make out the outline and EoTech logo if you zoom in on a photo of the shooter.
Spike - how many conspiracy theories have you offered on this one event alone???? The different antifa shooter with the earlobes - do you still believe that one? The dad and the Crooks kid killed by CIA as part of the coverup - do you still believe that one? Blackrock supposedly working with the Crooks kid due to a random appearance in a school video - do you still believe that one? A blackrock affiliated company shorting millions of DJT stock, and then not - do you still believe that one? Some other shooter on a water tower (how far away??) - do you still believe that one?
BEG - I dunno about that Eotech claim yet. Looking at your zoom photo, I see what looks like a tube behind that round logo. And that round logo maybe being the windage cap with logo on a typical scope??? The feds know of course, so someone should be leaking a clear photo soon enough....
Still too blurry at this point, and I don't wanna make bold claims on pixel shadows like Spike. LOL
Idk I’ve heard so many different stories I don’t know which one to believe yet but I will repeat that their is no way this kid made it to where he did without knowing he was going to succeed.
“BEG - I dunno about that Eotech claim yet. Looking at your zoom photo, I see what looks like a tube behind that round logo. And that round logo maybe being the windage cap with logo on a typical scope??”
I thought the same too, that’s why I said way up in the thread that I thought you could see a scope (thought the logo was a windage cap as well). I agree it’s a massively blurry and pixilated photo, but…I trust Greg to not blow smoke (he has the contacts and knows what questions to ask and information to get) and I do think you can make out the outline of an older style Eotech with the batteries in front of the optic. I think the part that just looks like the ocular end of the scope is just a shadow. We’ll see what info comes out, but I’ll put my money behind what Greg said (there were other unreported details in that video that have now been confirmed, I suspect the optic will be another one of them).
BTW, one of the few questions she has answered so far, Cheatle said only ONE Secret Service sniper, fired ONE shot...
Wow, watching this House Oversite Committee live, congress rep Nancy Mace (R-SC) just grilled Cheatle... I'd never heard of her before, but am sure the rest of the nation outside of South Carolina is now gonna know her...
Dude, I don't click on you links... I haven't a clue who he is and what makes him an expert of a blurred screen shot that anybody can see for themselves?
So you are saying, this guy Greg is CONFIRMING the shooter's AR was mounted with a Eotech Red Dot? If so post that link I can hear come from the dude's mouth, and I'll open it... I looked Eotech Red Dot up, they are go for pretty good money, so if so that AR was no cheap outfit...
Not sure how to be any clearer, Zbone. I know and trust Greg. If he says it, to me he’s a reliable source and if he says it it’s as good as confirmation (as mentioned, to my knowledge, he was the first to report that the second USSS CS was the one that took the fatal shot on Crooks in that video based on intel from his sources). That doesn’t mean it’s been “officially reported” which I’ll take as being truly “confirmed.”
Geez, you deflect the question like Cheatle... Where is the link somebody, anybody confirms is was a Eotech Red Dot... I might have to wear my readers, but in my eyes that blurred photo does not confirm jack... If anything it looks like a scope with logo on the turret cap...
In the report that told if a one in a million shot made by the sniper to kill crooks the sniper said he could only see the scope and top of his head.. isnt that what he said? I don't remember word for word
I don't remember hearing that Doug, the one I heard was the SS sniper could only see his head and neck (creating hesitation to shoot), until shots were fired and the SS sniper then shot him in the neck killing him...
“If anything it looks like a scope with logo on the turret cap...”
If anything it’s a tripler off the back, which is an important detail to miss or leave out and would also be way better than shooting at 1x at 150 yds.
Does it magnify the dot too? Sorry, I don't know much about red dots, I tried a couple, one on a rifle and one on a handgun, but didn't care for either, they just aren't for me, although I do have one on a single shot H&R 12ga...
So if a smallest 1MOA dot, (1 inch @ 100 yards) then the 3x turns the dot area 3" @ 100 yards and 4-1/2" @ 150 yards... Something I wouldn't use unless wanting to lob handgun bullets that far... Might be alright for a 30-30 or 45-70 though...
Not quite. The target and reticle increase proportionally, so your 1 moa dot is still a 1 moa dot (takes up 1” at 100 yards). Just everything in the sight picture is bigger. It adds to a red dots capability by quite a lot and can definitely help tighten group sizes and make a 150 yard shot a lot easier. I still wouldn’t call it a precision optic. Oh, and if you have astigmatism like me I can confirm that a magnifier makes that worse too lol
Spike subscribes to the teachings of Mailliw of Macco, who said that the *least* likely theory that fits *any* single fact is most likely to be correct. >;-)
I am not buying this idea about multiple shooters, alternate long hair shooter, CIA rubbing out witnesses, blackrock assassins, etc.
BUT this SS boss lady looked TERRIBLE on the witness stand. Knew nothing and didn't seem to care. Allocated 4x the SS detail to cover her buddy Jill Biden at a casino and left Trump hanging.
IF there is a conspiracy here, it would be some deliberate effort to under staff Trump security hoping this would happen. And the recent finding that SS boss lady Cheatle has used encrypted communications on her personal device outside of normal government channels (to avoid FOIA?) is super shady!!
When Trump was asked why he didn’t release the JFK files he replied if you saw what I saw you wouldn’t have either. But I guess the government was only bad way back then.
And what do you think everything else *is*? Why do so many distrust the Warren report? Are you more qualified to analyze the raw data than they were? really?
So many questions regarding that fateful day. Why would Jackie's first thought would be to wipe the evidence off the back of the limo? They had no idea of a Zapruder film that would prove shots came from opposite directions. Oh and Marylin Monroe dies from an overdose when she had everything going for her. scentman
It keeps getting more strange and frankly bizarre. Rep Eli Crane shared a video on X from a second floor window that SS had access to and the roof is right there.
“Rep Eli Crane shared a video on X from a second floor window that SS had access to and the roof is right there.”
Pretty sure that’s where the local counter sniper team was set up, not the secret service (there positions are pretty well documented). It certainly does raise the question of what they (the local team) were doing and what they were looking at. Haven’t heard much in the way of specifics regarding their actions.
When you guys hear the sequence of shots, doesn't it sound like the first 3 are 1 rifle then a burst of 5 from a different rifle, Then a handgun sound then finally the sniper kill shot? What say the Bowsite CSI gun experts?
That’s what I initially thought when I heard the shots, save the last one which I assumed was a suppressed long gun, not a pistol. That middle string of shots were all pretty close in timing so it was a little harder to distinguish them, but I initially thought they weren’t all coming from Crooks.
Curiouser and curiouser ... Senator Ron Johnson is conducting an Investigation. He was told by local police that the Secret Service did not attend the Safety Briefing the morning of the rally. Also, the SS didn't plan to send a sniper team, but changed their mind and sent it.
Their was a lot of talk that Trump's VP pick would be announced and introduced at this rally, maybe someone thought they could wipe out the entire ticket.
Cheatle was the first sacrificial lamb, we might see others. Or someone might off her and pin the whole conspiracy on her.
BEG I read one of the local LE took a shot . I assumed it was that last one before the kill shot. Maybe from the ground with a side arm. If you had to guess what rifle and caliber was the middle 5 from? Very different from the first 3. They come really fast together.
Yeah, I speculated on all that before anything broke and was wrong with plenty that I guessed lol it’s really hard to say - guns just sound different on camera, especially guns that are different distances away from those cameras. I think the shooter shot more than 3 rounds so some of that middle string would have to be him if so. I can’t pick out the different guns in that middle string. Last shot definitely sounds different (like I said, I think owing mostly to a suppressor), but hard to say what’s happening in that middle string of shots.
Oh.... I don't know....most appointed people in a Demorat administration are incompetent. I'll leave the conspiracy theories to other people.... Plenty of evidence out there that was incompetence going way back to before WWII.
Sounded like the same rifle to me for the first 8 shots. All from the Crooks kid. Three somewhat slow/aimed.... then a pause as Trump gets down and SS protected.... then 5 more rapid fire.
Some guy isolated the sound of shots laid over the original Trump video.
Not sure about the middle shot sound..... but definitely hear the distinct sound of a suppressed rifle at the very end.
If there were 3 shooters, my bet would be the Crooks kid and then 2 different LEO response shots.
If there was a mysterious 2nd assassin on the grassy knoll shooting, then what did he hit?? Not a single agent laying on top of Trump got even a scratch.
So someone pointed out on YouTube that showed 3 different sounds/locations of gunfire. The third was the counter sniper shot. I want to believe their was two shooters however a comment from the video made some sense in that the microphone that captured the gunshots was most likely pointed to different directions trying to locate the shooter which could have made for two different tones. This comment came from someone who worked a lot with microphones so despite all your thoughts on me I will call it inconclusive due to that theory.
So someone pointed out on YouTube that showed 3 different sounds/locations of gunfire. The third was the counter sniper shot. I want to believe their was two shooters however a comment from the video made some sense in that the microphone that captured the gunshots was most likely pointed to different directions trying to locate the shooter which could have made for two different tones. This comment came from someone who worked a lot with microphones so despite all your thoughts on me I will call it inconclusive due to that theory.
Doug, I posted this originally on July 19, and then yesterday:
" They have confirmed the shooter fired off 8 round, as I said in an earlier post above: "Soooo, after reviewing links provided above the first 3 shots from the assassin seemed to be aimed at Trump... Then there was a burst of 5 shots, shots 4 - 8 which I would assume he was firing at the crowd... Then you hear a double tap from a different sounding gun, likely/possibly the local LEO taking shots 9 and 10... And then the 11th and final shot from the SS sniper... 3 guns total... 8 shots total from the assassin"
Shots 1-8 have been confirmed were shot by Crooks... Shot 11 was confirmed to be a single shot by the SS sniper, and the kill shot... The only shots that haven't been confirmed is the double tap 9 and 10 shots, and assumingly these 2 shots would have been from the local LEO which that has been confirmed, so all 11 shot are accounted for...
Confirmed what? Assassin shot 8 times, hit 4 people in the line of fire of Trump....
I think it was the Oversight Committee confirmed Crook's 8 shots, (some officials did, but I didn't write it down their names at the time) and Trump confirmed the last shot was the only shot fired by the SS sniper... Also confirmed that one local LEO fired at Crooks was confirmed by Butler County official, which likely was the double tap shots 9 and 10...
Here is a screen shot from a video from a news chopper (I think) of the dead shooter on the roof with a blood stream down the roof (although they blurred out the body) but I assume it was before LEOs reached the body because there were none around in the video, only an AR15 platform gun a few feet away, (witness said he rolled towards them after being shot) and a black backpack at the edge of the roof... Seems a backpack was used to conceal the gun.... As bigeasygator and I discussed the optics of the AR yesterday it very well have been a Red Dot with a magnifier or it could be one of those short AR scopes but it most definitely had magnification as can be seen in the photo...
Looks like he had 45 Degree Offset Iron Sights on the right side, but still hard to tell about the optics... Looks like one of those short AR scopes where there are a bagillian different makes and models out there in a wide price range... Go to amazon and search "AR15 scopes"...
I sure hope the Bowsite investigative reporters finally get to the bottom of this. A lot of strong evidence provided and no clear path to the actual verdict.
Well the witness with the red hat on say the guy climbed the building while carrying a rifle. He did not mention a backpack. Interestingly the video I posted hints towards the guy not being at the crest. Also how is the gun in the photo that far away from the body meanwhile the bloodstream is the other direction?
Tried to refine that picture a bit..... still struggling to understand optics. This was the Dad's gun, who could and should answer the question exactly. Looks like some kind of short AR style optic (maybe 1-4x scope or a red-dot with magnifier) and maybe secondary sight at 45degree offset??
Tried to refine that picture a bit..... still struggling to understand optics. This was the Dad's gun, who could and should answer the question exactly. Looks like some kind of short AR style optic (maybe 1-4x scope or a red-dot with magnifier) and maybe secondary sight at 45degree offset??
Witness said he rolled a bit after being shot. Away from the rifle. Seeing the rifle optics I now understand the missed shots..BEG was on to it. Spike he was on the crest of the roof. That whole bit about him being way below the crest so couldn't see over was garbage IMO.
Man it’s so hard to see for sure what kind of optic is on top. I think it’s still an Eotech with the battery compartment upfront, similar to what’s on the rifle in the pic above. That’s what it looks like in the pic Zbone posted. It’s almost harder to make anything out in the bodycam photo. I’m still believing that it’s an Eotech, just can’t tell if there was a magnifier sitting behind it.
I still don't believe it's that Eotech Red Dot model or any type of red dot, the scope has an objective lens, and a white logo on the upper turret can be seen in photo... It's one of those short AR15 scopes, as said, there are a bagillian makes and models out there... It most definitely has 45 Degree Offset Iron Sights...
I think you’re right about the offset irons, Zbone. But I just don’t see a scope in the Bigfoot/Loch Ness-level quality photo above lol it doesn’t look like a scope sitting in front of the rear offset iron, looks more like a red dot. The typical eye relief needed on a scope should put it at least at where the buffer time starts on an AR (ie, the ocular ends right above the charging handle, give or take), and I just don’t see anything there. Plus, like I said, I trust Greg Lapin and his sources and if he says Eotech it’s gonna take someone coming out and saying it wasn’t for me to change my mind.
And interesting details in that link, BowSniper. Confirms some of the suspicions that were raised earlier such as the breakdown in communication and the lack of using a common frequency to discuss the evolving threat.
Am NOT saying it is this make or model scope (IT IS NOT), only that it is this style of short AR15 scope... The objective lens identifies it's a scope with magnification... As said, go on amazon and there are many makes and model in a wide price range...
As the information begins to flow in it’s beginning to look like a horrific failure of the SS and their use of LE assets and an extremely lucky untrained shooter being the recipient of those failings.
OMGosh, FBI director is in front of the Oversight Committee right not and was just flat out asked, "Did the shooter have a scope", Wrays relpy, " I think so, but don't remember"... He's the freakn FBI director and says he don't remember...Unfreakbelievible!!!
They also asked him if shooter had a ladder, he said he bought a ladder but it was not found on sight...
bigeasygator, we can agree to disagree whether it was a scope or red dot, but if its that model of Eotech you keep showing, the dude mounted it on backwards...8^) and explain to me what the white thing is towards the stock where a scope turret could be...
“As the information begins to flow in it’s beginning to look like a horrific failure of the SS and their use of LE assets”
Bingo.
“bigeasygator, we can agree to disagree whether it was a scope or red dot, but if its that model of Eotech you keep showing, the dude had it on backwards...”
I don’t think so, but I’m basing that off the photo of Crooks laid out prone where you can somewhat see some of the details of the gun. By details, I mean blurry lines lol
That said, I grabbed a few of my guns and tried to mimic the one blurry shot of Crooks gun where you can kind of make out some of the lines. I took a pic of a gun of mine with a red dot, one with the magnifier added on, and then a scoped AR. Still think that blurry pic looks most like a red dot with the 45 degree iron behind it, possibly with a magnifier.
It'll be interesting to learn what the actual optics were mounted on the AR, the caliber (most likely .223), etc., if it's ever made pubic, but after watching these hearings, kinda doubt it will, heck when asked FBI today, they said shooter bought 5' ladder and they found it but it wasn't at the site and it wasn't in his vehicle, yet he didn't say where they found it... Go figure...
Screenshot from a Fox News article quoting Senator Hawley. Again, all stuff that me and others were highlighting early on as potential explanations for how there could have been gaps in the security.
Bowsniper there is really no reason for him to have an offshore account for Bitcoin as for one I doubt he has the money to worry about it and 2 he could just have an anonymous wallet.
If the kid had a crypto account at pancakeSwap, or uniswap, or coinex.... or a dozen others, I think that would show as an "encrypted offshore account". No???
It doesn't mean he has to be a bitcoin millionaire. Quite the opposite. Computer kids these days play with goofy crypto coins worth pennies (SHIB, FLOKI, BONK, PEPE....) that are so fringe they are only traded via offshore crypto holding accounts as a big gamble dreaming for big reward.
You might be right bigeasygator, it might be a red dot... The guy that gave Fox the latest video this past day showing the shooter looking at them (people with cell phone) and pointing the gun towards them is ex-military and said the shooter was probably shooting at center mass rather than his head because he was using an un-magnified red dot site... How he knew it was a red dot from that far away, I don't know but that is what he said...
Bowsniper not only that but a lot of overseas exchanges won’t allow US residents because our government try’s to nail them for it like Binance for example. Although you can use a different VPN and get on.
Bowsniper there is really no reason for him to have an offshore account for Bitcoin as for one I doubt he has the money to worry about it and 2 he could just have an anonymous wallet.
A former Green Beret, LEO and explosives expert and his opinion on the shooter and his explosives. But the Bowsiters probably know better than him. He makes incredible points.
"Bowsniper there is really no reason for him to have an offshore account for Bitcoin..."
what make you think the "encrypted accounts" have anything whatsoever to do with money?
it is said that he was on 3 overseas encrypted "sites" or "platforms." that could be nothing more than a messaging app like Signal or WhatSapp. hell tiktok is encrypted as is everything stored in the cloud. pretty much every person with a smart phone uses encrypted platforms.
"I read that terrorists use those accounts and gaming accounts to secretly communicate with each other."
no doubt. they also use email...facebook...instagram...youtube...usps...crayons...sharpies...the telephone walkie talkies...cb radios... and probably even smoke signals.
the point i was trying to make is that just because someone had an encrypted account on their phone...that doesnt mean they are part of some world wide terror organization with some complex plan to assassinate trump.
The quality of red dot sure makes a difference. I shot my 17" 100 yd pistol gong today with my SP9A1 9mm carbine and one of my short ARs. The cheap Bushnell red dot on the 9mm obscured much of the target, while the clearer True Glow red dot was precise enough to his sporting clays laying on the berm at 105 yds.
Who has more cool guns BEG or Thornton? I think ya both better start posting pics of ALL your guns so we can decide who's the winner. Just listing them isn't enough, we need pics. Thornton?...... BEG?..... Ready......GO!!!
Who is the most insecure about not having cool guns? HunterR or... Greyghost? Nah, it's dumber than that. Greyghost doesn't know much about guns at all. In fact, he'll blabber some bullshit like "silencers arent legal" and these guns are "military grade"..I guarantee BEG's rigs cost more than mine. I don't spend a lot of cash on fun guns, but I do hunting firearms.
"Sniper killed would-be Trump assassin with 'one-in-a-million shot"
"The shot that killed the man who attempted to assassinate former President Trump at a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, last Saturday was a "one-in-a-million shot," according to a source familiar with the investigation into the shooting.
Fox News learned from the source the kill shot was a single shot taken by a Secret Service counter sniper whose view was obscured.
A local tactical team also took a shot at the would-be assassin, 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks, but missed.
The Secret Service sniper who killed Crooks could only see Crooks’ gun scope and the top of his eye and forehead because the lip of the roof was blocking the sniper’s view."
You are correct, but I was just referring to the quality of the dot and how much it obscures. My sniper friend says he can hit 6" targets easily at 100 yds with his 9mm patrol carbine and an Aimpoint sight. Aimpoint is as good as thise red dots get. 9mm actually has a decent trajectory at 100 yds, and on a carbine, 200 is easily doable. As for the scope that agent used, it was very likely a first focal plane 6-25x at least, and at that short of range, the shooter's scope and eyebrow would have been a much bigger target than the agent was used to grouping shots into for practice. It should have been an easy shot for him.
New details emerging... This guy saying the AR15 was a DPMS Panther Arms in 5.56mm made in 2013, with the offset iron sights deployed, and a HolosSun Red Dot with solar backup and a 2 MOA, meaning about 3" covering Trumps head... He even knows the backpack model...
New info indicating shooter climbed HVAC piping to one roof, then traversed the other building's roofs to access across to get to the shooting building position...
For those who did not watch my link the SS Snipers had no radio and had to resort to texting. If that wasn’t crazy enough they were the first snipers Trump had in 2 years.
“For those who did not watch my link the SS Snipers had no radio and had to resort to texting”
That’s not at all what he said. He said the local snipers were using text. They all had radios (local and SS). The local team wasn’t using them to relay information to the SS counter snipers. I said very early on in this thread that there was likely a communication break down and that there will be a lot of scrutiny on the reliance of local LE, both of which were likely massive contributors to the security failure. Looks like my suspicions weren’t far off.
The way I took it the SS snipers had their radio channel and the local LEO's had their channel, they could not cross communicate via radio, locals could only text SS snipers and how often are they going to be looking at their cell phones... It was said the SS sniper that made the shot did not see the shooter until he started firing which I have a hard time believing, especially after seeing the video of the shooter running across the roof....
My assumption is the local teams probably wanted to keep the shared airwaves clear and thought they could handle the situation - which was taking place in their area of responsibility - by communicating via text or by a communicating on a local only frequency instead of the shared frequency. That seems more likely to me, but if you have information that suggests they (local and SS) were strictly on different frequencies, had no ability to communicate on radios, and were using text to communicate across lines please share it as I haven’t seen that particular detail being reported. That would indeed be shocking to me.
BEG. Wouldn't you find it more shocking that if there was a shared radio communication channel and local LE seen a guy with a gun and didn't blow up that radio. Even if it was just seconds before the shooting. Whipping out your phone to send a text is just something I can't wrap my mind around
“BEG. Wouldn't you find it more shocking that if there was a shared radio communication channel and local LE seen a guy with a gun and didn't blow up that radio.”
“They did not share a frequency, was confirmed by the acting Secret Service Director Ronald Rowe news conference on Friday...”
I’m sure they did blow up the radio, the problem was they were blowing up the wrong channel. Again, there’s a big difference between “not establishing a common frequency” and “not using that common frequency.” Not clear based on the comments which category this fell into, but again, I’d be absolutely shocked there wasn’t a common frequency established up front. Again, more likely is that there was and it just wasn’t used - that the local team was trying to solve this problem amongst themselves without getting the SS involved and that’s where the communication break down occurred.
I go by logic, logic tells me something definitely ain't right... the time they had to get Trump out of Dodge, I believe " smoke signals" would have even worked.
Thanks Zbone. Sounds like SS counter assault team was on the partner network but not the SS counter snipers and they were indeed relying on cell to communicate with the local teams (they only had radio with the rest of the SS sounds like). That certainly sheds some light on how easily it was for the comms to break down.
Whistleblowers in the SS coming forward and exposing more incompetence and clear partisanship. The head honchos purposely cut Trumps security…..Dang that Biden admin is dirty. Link is to Real Clear on the Congressional investigation. ———
Hawley said he had received detailed information that Rowe personally directed “significant cuts” to the Countersurveillance Division, a department that performs threat assessment evaluations of event sites before the events occur and did not perform its typical evaluation of the Butler site and was not present that day.
“This is significant because CSD’s duties include evaluating potential security threats outside the security perimeter,” Hawley wrote, adding that a CSD’s threat assessment likely would have provided more measures to protect the rooftop of the American Glass Research building where shooter Thomas Crooks perched and opened fire on Trump and the crowd.
“The whistleblower claims that if personnel from the CSD had been present at the rally, the gunman would have been handcuffed in the parking lot after being spotted with a rangefinder,” Hawley continued. “You acknowledged in your Senate testimony that the American Glass Research complex should have been included in the security perimeter for the Butler event.”
The unnamed whistleblower further alleged that Rowe personally directed significant cuts to the CSD, including reducing the division’s manpower by 20%, Hawley asserted. “You did not mention this in your Senate testimony when asked directly to explain manpower reductions.”
Whistleblowers also accused Secret Service leaders and managers of retaliating against individuals who expressed concerns about the security of Trump’s events.
The flurry of anonymous accusations includes an assertion that after an event with a Trump golf tournament in August of last year Secret Service personnel present expressed “serious concern” that the agency’s reliance on local law enforcement was not adequate to meet security needs because these local officers were not properly trained and “otherwise prepared” to carry out the tasks delegated to them.
———- Its pretty obvious the Dirty Democrats were leaving Trump as exposed as possible hoping someone would take a pot shot at him.
Their is an also a video where they interviewed the local cops and swat and they said it was very odd and unheard of that they didn’t even have a briefing the morning of with the SS.
Knew I heard 10 shots and not 9 in the audio... Congressman's investigation reveals, 2 snipers shot Crooks, a Butler SWAT sniper and the final killing shot by SS sniper... That Butler SWAT sniper probably saved a lot of lives:
Maybe the 9th shot, the SWAT sniper shot did not hit Crooks, rather the SS sniper's bullet exiting Crooks body damaged the stock... I like this guys view:
