Bowsite.com

I'll take that as a sign from God.

It was a depiction of a Bacchanal (you know, since the Olympics are Greek, and the Roman Bacchanals were inspired by Greek tradition), in particular it was meant to stylistically mimic The Feast of the Gods by Dutch painter Jan van Bijlert. Last time I checked, Dionysus wasn’t in the Last Supper.

KHNC, go ahead and give HDE the same answer that anyone could easily find if they didn’t rely on social media, Fox News, or other blatantly biased sources.

They knew exactly what they were doing by choosing something that could easily be mistaken/swapped out for The Last Supper.

That was no accident.

Absolutely classic and predictable. And you probably stole company time in posting it

Your going to need a safe space and a therapy animal, oh say about November 6th.

Not an issue. You already walk around with blinders on.

DEMOCRACY!!!!

They don't reproduce, they recruit.

They don't reproduce, they recruit.

And your point? If those pics aren’t enough, how about a quote from the people that organized it, who also dismiss it?

“The unintended parody of the biblical scene, performed against the backdrop of the River Seine, was actually intended to interpret Dionysus and raise awareness “of the absurdity of violence between human beings”, organisers wrote on X.

The committee was forced to apologise after the performance caused outrage among Catholics, Christian groups and conservative politicians around the world.

“Clearly there was never an intention to show disrespect to any religious group. [The opening ceremony] tried to celebrate community tolerance,” the Paris 2024 spokesperson Anne Descamps told a press conference. “We believe this ambition was achieved. If people have taken any offence we are really sorry.”“

So the committee was “forced” to apologize………………….. usually “forced” apologies don’t mean very much! ;-)

I didn’t see it, but wouldn’t expect much better from the French! But I hear the Catholic Church in France and many French citizens actually denounced it!

I always thought the Olympics were supposed to TRY to keep POLITICS out of the games…………………..including the opening ceremonies!

Duh. Who's the one saying it wasn't a "parody" of the Last Supper? The pic I posted isn't a mere coincidence. That's what people are talking about. Of course they'll say that it wasn't their intent. They were called on it...

God gives us free will. That means we can choose to follow him or follow the world.

He even allows us to be make bad choices...I know I sure have in my life.

These people need God, like the rest of us.

The two biggest losers on bowsite who sincerely believe that a male with a penis, beard and big muscles should be called a woman if they simply “think” they are a woman! They probably find the blue Smurf guy attractive?!

Again, Modern/Cultural Marxism at its finest! Sad but laughable when it comes to these two clowns.

Gullible Karen's

Who's the gullible Karen...

yep and i'm diverse enough to just ignore ya....that's democracy. my choice, your choice....ignore the fruitcakes. They love the drama they create, love to flaunt.....ignore em.

Lots of hard men in this world that make a tough hard living everyday. They rise up early to go to work, while many of the fruity's are still snuggled in their beds.....cold, heat, rain...wood, concrete and metal, dirt, blood and sore muscles.......The world ain't all pansies.

One thing is for certain though........when they have had enough?.......yer gonna get your butt kicked....leave em alone.

This would be a huge relief if you, and other Trumpers could actually ignore it. The world would thank you. But I'm betting you simply can't ignore it and mind your own business.

"Lots of hard men in this world that make a tough hard living everyday. They rise up early to go to work, while many of the fruity's are still snuggled in their beds.....cold, heat, rain...wood, concrete and metal, dirt, blood and sore muscles.......The world ain't all pansies."

Oh now you and your ilk are the only people who work hard. LMAO. How about "hard men" mind their own business and stop being Karens. The majority of the world population support LBGTQ rights. The world ain't all bigots either. See link.

"One thing is for certain though........when they have had enough?.......yer gonna get your butt kicked....leave em alone."

Who is they and who is kicking who's butt? How about you leave LBGTQ people alone and mind your own business. Karen. So much for ignoring it lol.

who here is against “LGBTQ rights?” they have the same rights as as everyone else. no more…no less.

i haven’t seen anyone here suggest otherwise.

You wear the victim card out KS. It gets old. But again it is just you

I skipped over it. Nothing but mindless babble...

I just wanted to see what BEG's response was being as he's wrong and all. Not disappointed LOL.

By the way the real Archbishop Vigano was excommunicated July 5

About what? The ceremony director has said multiple times it wasn’t meant to be a recreation of the Last Supper. Furthermore, they have apologized if anyone was unintentionally offended.

““The idea was to create a big pagan party in link with the God of Mount Olympus,” opening ceremony director Thomas Jolly, told France’s BFMTV. “[The Last Supper is] not my inspiration and that should be pretty obvious.”

“My wish isn’t to be subversive, nor to mock or to shock. Most of all, I wanted to send a message of love, a message of inclusion and not at all to divide,” he added in an interview with the AP, noting that he had been bullied as a child for being gay.””

Even if he’s lying and it was an inspiration, frankly I couldn’t care less. I imagine if Jesus were here to say something about it he probably wouldn’t be too upset that someone chose to hold him up as a model of love, tolerance, and inclusion. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, no??

Lastly, I grew up seeing art like the pictures attached hanging on the walls of friends and family. I don’t ever recall the outrage over the “mockery” of Jesus related to those paintings, despite the fact that Jesus and the disciples are replaced by criminals and murderers. These types of depictions have been around for decades, but apparently I’ve missed all the outrage over them??

Must have missed that.

Confess I've never watched the Opening Ceremonies, not once. I feel left out LOL

As for you saying the LGBTQ crowd just wants to be left alone is ridiculous. That’s the whole point of this thread, men in drag, dressed up as women is being shoved down our throats! They want to be celebrated and praised or you’ll be called a bigot or transphobic, just like you do.

We aren’t supposed to complain when a man in drag is reading books to little kids at a library with their junk hanging out. Or they are standing in a classroom, teaching our kids with gigantic fake boobs, or they are getting in all sorts of women’s protected spaces.

Males in women’s lockers with naked females is supposed to be fine. Males in women’s sports, should be all good. Males in female prisons all good, etc, etc. Left alone?! What are you talking about? We wouldn’t even be having these discussions if we weren’t being forced to choke on this crap!

Do you ever notice how no one agrees with you about how a male can magically become a woman, and how we should all be cheering for him and parading him around as something wonderful?!

He may live in a bubble where believes that. Any reasonable person would expect a show like that to be controversial and divisive regardless of what their thoughts are on drag queens, religion, LGBTQAI+ or Greek mythology. My guess would be he knew. Regardless, a terrible choice for something like the Olympics. It is an event that is a great opportunity to unite people.

When you read the articles on ESPN and various news agencies, often they discuss it angering people and that people believed it was the last super or that people felt it depicted the last supper. In other words, they (olympics) were sorry it got people who thought it looked like that upset. It also looks like some folks in the press corps of the olympics perhaps didnt know what the art director was after.

I mean, when the org literally tweets during the opening ceremony what's going on, it should seem a little more clear. But once the outrage and grievance machine is rolling...

Oh, and the horse was a river goddess or something and had zero to do with the god of death or whatever people noted.

Not everything you see and dislike is a direct and horrific attack on Christian Americans, or Christian's around the world. Really. Nor is it an attack on conservative Americans.

For the most part, the world is not a scary and horrid place. Most people, even the drag queens out there, just want to live life and enjoy the little time we have on this big spinning ball.

Summed it up very well.

Sorry bigeasy and Will, even he’s got enough brains to see what it is…

And grey ghost they are making fun of trannies, not normalizing it.

This is what you get when you support the gender ideology.

Why would I care what an ex-priest and known conspiracy theorist that was kicked out of the Catholic Church (who is obviously bat s#%t crazy like you) or a past Olympian transgender person thinks about the opening ceremonies in the Olympics. Why do you think that others opinion on the subject matter hold any weight like it's evidence or something? I form my own opinions. I don't have a problem with the opening ceremonies as I understand the context probably because I don't burn books. Additionally, it affects me, my family, and everyone I know absolutely zero.

Live and let live. Words to live by.

Men, competing as women, beating up women for a medal. I am sure the Greeks didn't obide by this madness when they created the games.

You’ve been told multiple times we don’t think males should be competing against females. So are your comprehension skills that atrocious or do you just deliberately lie, Mike? It’s one of the two.

Every knee one day shall bow.

A Paris 2024 Olympics spokesperson admitted the controversial drag show version of “The Last Supper” seen in Friday’s opening ceremony was indeed inspired by the iconic da Vinci mural — despite attempting to vehemently deny it following fierce backlash.

“Thomas Jolly took inspiration from Leonardo da Vinci’s famous painting to create the setting,” an Olympics spokesperson admitted to The Post in a statement on Saturday, referring to the opening ceremony creative director."

https://nypost.com/2024/07/30/sports/paris-olympics-admitted-opening-ceremony-drag-show-was-based-on-last-supper/

https://nypost.com/2024/07/30/opinion/olympics-last-supper-parody-lies-showcase-woke-leftist-playbook/

What happened to a man never to hit a woman... Why aren't the Hollywood "Not Me" advocates not screaming?

Sad to say but one of these men are either gonna critically injure or kill one of these girl boxers...

Because it goes against everything decent and normal...

"Boxers previously barred from women's events will fight in Paris Olympics"

"At the time of their disqualifications, the president of the International Boxing Association, which governs the World Boxing Championships, alleged that the boxers’ chromosome tests came back as XY (women typically have two X chromosomes, while men typically have an X and a Y chromosome).

“Based on DNA tests, we identified a number of athletes who tried to trick their colleagues into posing as women,” the association’s president, Umar Kremlev, told Russia’s Tass news agency at the time. “According to the results of the tests, it was proved that they have XY chromosomes. Such athletes were excluded from competition.”

yep...absolutely disgusting.

a$$es waxed >;-)

Nah, not their 5oclock shadow or their DNA test... You lefties are so inept...

“People who are intersex have genitals, chromosomes or reproductive organs that don’t fit into a male/female sex binary. Their genitals might not match their reproductive organs, or they may have traits of both. Being intersex may be evident at birth, childhood, later in adulthood or never. Being intersex isn’t a disorder, disease or condition.

Being intersex can present in about 40 different ways. The most common intersex traits include:

Combination of chromosomes: Everyone inherits sex-linked chromosomes from their parents. People who are male have XY chromosomes. People who are females have XX chromosomes. People who are intersex may have a mix of chromosomes, such as XXY. Or they may have some cells that are XY and some cells that are XX. Or they may have just one X chromosome (XO). Other combinations can occur too.

Mixed genitals and sex organs: A person who is intersex may have ovarian and testicular tissue (ovotestes). For example, you may have genitals that are associated with being assigned male at birth (AMAB), like a penis. At the same time, you may have internal reproductive anatomy or hormone levels more closely associated with being assigned female at birth (AFAB), like estrogen.”

So if these boxers have female genitalia and reproductive organs but XY chromosomes, are they male or female?

No freakin' idea. You're talking factory installed equipment, right? Not some aftermarket stuff?

lol correct, Mike B.

I would have to disagree. The person I knew growing up was a "hermaphrodite" as we were told. The individual had the appearance of being male/female externally (yes my classmate was mainstreamed into the boy's locker room, showered with some of us.).

That said a large number of other health issues were present; almost blind, nearly deaf, obese, diabetes, kidney issues, and had serious emotional outbursts coupled with learning disabilities.

Whether it was the parent's decision or that of the school district I really think main-streaming was not in his best interest. Uncertain about what ever happened to Stevie, he just kinda disappeared from classes with no explanation from anyone.

A number of years later classmates talked about him at Catechism, pre-graduation preparation, etc. At that point as we were adjusting to being young adults the compassion for someone with those issues developed.

And a person born with female genitalia and reproductive system that have XY chromosomes are which gender?

Yeah, it is lol. Anything else is a defect which is not the norm which is not something you can psychologically talk yourself into. You're trying to support your premise with something that couldn't be more different than apples and oranges.

Down Syndrome is defect. Does that mean someone who struggles academically should subject themselves to further change to enhance their slow cognitive ability? BEG? Yes, No?

If it’s so black and white maybe you can answer the question then. If this boxer was born with Swyer syndrome (XY chromosomes, female genitalia, assigned female at birth), is she a male or a female?

“Down Syndrome is defect. Does that mean someone who struggles academically should subject themselves to further change to enhance their slow cognitive ability? BEG? Yes, No?”

Huh? I don’t even know what change your referencing or how it’s relevant to the questions about a boxer who very likely was born with female genitalia, assigned female at birth, raised as girl/woman, who is now being questioned as to whether she should be allowed to box as a female.

But I see you avoided the question. Thanks for playing.

“I'm also sorry you think a biological male should use the female locker room if he "Feels" he is female”

I never said that so you can stop putting words in my mouth.

genitalia or no genitalia...the chromosomal makeup seems to dictate things like testosterone levels...etc.

"The term DSD implies a set of rare conditions related to an individual's reproductive organs, genes, and hormones. Certain people with DSDs are raised as females. Nevertheless, they have male-like blood testosterone levels, the ability to utilize the testosterone in their bodies, and XY chromosomes that are usually found in a person who's a cisgender male (i.e., assigned male at birth).On the contrary, a person who's a cisgender female (i.e., assigned female at birth) has significantly lower testosterone levels and has XX chromosomes. As opposed to cisgender females, cisgender males go through male puberty and generally possess an advantage in regard to skeletal structure, muscle mass, and faster twitch muscle."

no...but nice try.

what im saying when it comes to sports...maybe the best way to determine whether a person competes as a male or a female would be their chromosomal makeup. i thought i was pretty clear.

“Not to bigeasy it isn't”

Same with Ricky. Also, you still haven’t answered the question (not surprising from someone who doesn’t understand the difference between sex and gender).

But I’ll ask for a third time Orion, what sex is someone with XY chromosomes and female genitalia? By spike’s method you seem to suggest they’re female. And if that’s the case sounds like you have no problem with these female Olympic boxers (and neither does spike).

“maybe the best way to determine whether a person competes as a male or a female would be their chromosomal makeup”

…and not what’s between their legs or their assigned sex at birth. Got it.

I’ve asked the question no less than five times and no one has answered it yet, Mike. Maybe you want to try. If you’re born with female genitalia and a female reproductive system and are assigned female at birth yet you have XY (ie, male) chromosomes, what are you?

Ricky was the only one that kinda answered and he said that makes you male for sports even though you were born with a vagina. But he didn’t say what bathroom or locker room that person should use.

That is the science. I guess you all were lucky enough not to have a child with these conditions. The lack of empathy of some...

I CARE ABOUT PROTECTING FEMALES, like my wife and daughter, from males who pretend to be women or female and are invading what should be their protected, private female spaces. You and your idiot buddy flatlander want to endanger all women, 100% of them, in your support of these fake women.

You don’t choose what space they get to invade after you’ve acknowledged that they should be recognized as women, leftist society allows them into female spaces. That’s why you trying to differentiate between female and women is so ridiculous! MARXIST GENDER IDEOLOGY IS WHAT PURPOSELY MIXES UP WOMEN/FEMALE/MALE/MAN TO DESTROY THE WESTERN WORLD!

You and your kind are a danger to all females and should be treated that way by real men who know what a woman is and know how to protect them. Good luck…

Apparently you could and maybe should care less seeing how many times you’ve posted hate towards the boxer in question.

“You and your idiot buddy flatlander want to endanger all women, 100% of them, in your support of these fake women.”

So much for “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor,” eh Mike?

“You and your kind are a danger to all females and should be treated that way by real men who know what a woman is and know how to protect them.”

Buddy, I know what a woman is and I know how to protect them. FWIW, my wife (pictured above) thinks angry, spiteful, hateful men like you are far more dangerous than any transwoman she’s ever met.

Swyer syndrome is a rare disorder characterized by the failure of the sex glands (i.e., testicles or ovaries) to develop. Swyer syndrome is classified as a disorder of sex development (DSD), which encompasses any disorder in which chromosomal, gonadal or anatomic sex development is abnormal. Girls with Swyer syndrome have an XY chromosomal makeup (as boys normally do) instead of an XX chromosomal makeup (as girls normally do). Despite having the XY chromosomal makeup, girls with Swyer syndrome look female and have functional female genitalia and structures including a vagina, uterus and fallopian tubes.

So you have no problem with Imane Khalef competing as a female then. Got it.

do you know whether or not she/he has female genitalia?

Personally, no. But based on the anecdotal evidence of her growing up as a girl and long running track record of her competing as a female, from Algeria mind you, and the comments from the Olympic spokespeople, I’m betting money she does. Which I’m sure is also why she appealed the IBA disqualification.

“Isn't that the science Big Easy XY male XX female?”

That’s part of the science, yup.

“Your right I don't care if his undercarriage is messed up”

I think that’s kinda crazy to call a vagina a messed up undercarriage. And spike and CaptMike think having one of those makes you a female, regardless of what your chromosomes say. csalem thinks people like that get to identify what sex/gender they are which I thought was really big of him (he said most identify as female). But I’ll put your vote in the “male” camp, Orion.

“He has also been disqualified from other competitions for fighting in the women's category”

By other, do you mean the one event (2023 World Boxing Championship) sanctioned by the IBA that prompted this whole discussion about her sex? She’s also competed in many other fights on the world stage, going back to 2018 where she first competed in the World Boxing Championship. She also fought in the 2020 Olympics. She’s got a 9-5 record on the world stage, respectable but I’d hardly call that “beating up” the competition.

“Question for you and Flatlander would you let your daughter fight him if she was a boxer?”

If my daughter was an Olympic class boxer, would I “let her” box another Olympian in her weight class with a 9-5 record on the world stage? Well it wouldn’t be my choice, it would be hers. But I’d see no reason to try and stop it.

Whether this is a genetic defect (Swyer Syndrome) or true gender dysphoria is where the discussion should be focused. I think the position of all on biological males not competing with biological females has been made abundantly clear and a topic of serious magnitude is not well served with irrelevant rabbit holes.

However. Liam Thomas, Dylan Mulvaney, etc. They do have a mental disorder. They are still a person. Just a POS for a human being. The American public as a whole shouldn't go along with thier nonsense BS. Liam Thomas should be publicly ridiculed until "it" didn't want to be seen in public again.

Rant over!

Really? Greatly? How has this specifically affected you? No speculation, I want to know how this HAS affected you. Are there any transgender athlete's at your daughter's school? Has your or your wife ever been in the locker room with a transgender athlete?

As BEG said many many times, I'm not for men who have not transitioned in locker rooms nor competing in college, professional, or Olympic sports. There's a fix for the concern on the locker room issue. The bathroom thing is a moot point as many public spaces (like Kansas City International Airport) have gender neutral bathrooms.

"I CARE ABOUT PROTECTING FEMALES, like my wife and daughter..."

Good, me too. One way to do this is to not support, or vote for, a person running for public office who HAS bragged about sexual assault and been found liable for sexual assault.

What seems really strange about all this talk about mutilation of kids regarding sexual organs, seems nobody has any issue with circumcision which is mostly due to religious beliefs. Hmmm...

is circumcision done in an attempt to reassign someones gender? to make a little boy look and feel like a little girl? hmmm...

what an ignorant comparison.

Did I say it was? But it is altering a child's sex organs in which many of you gave consent for a doctor to do which is non-essential and mostly for personal, social, or religious reasons. Sounds familiar...

And I'll bet many consented here and did not know the purpose just that it's the cultural norm.

The rate of sexual assault's by transgender people is way less than that..."insignificant to think it means anything." Please convey that to Mike U so he can quit babbling.

If you want to minimize an issue citing an occurrence of 0.05% makes is sound insignificant.

Now if you provide context, say the population of the US that 0.05% represents that number is 166,500.

Maybe that doesn't raise the significance level but if you take that same percent of the worlds population that number is 3,975,500.

I wonder if anyone ever asked any of those 3,975,500 people about their significance....

Not even remotely. circumcision is nothing whatsoever like gender reassignment surgery.

“ Of course HDE would call a person with a disorder "insignificant."

Wait…weren’t we told that intersex wasn’t a “disorder” at all?

This stuff gets really confusing when you try to manipulate things to fit a certain narrative .

Im saying exactly what the Olympics spokespeople are saying. Highlighted screenshot from a NYTs article since it’s probably behind a paywall. These boxers are female. I have no clue as to what gender they identify with, but they are competing as the sex they were assigned at birth.

“1 in 2000 is .05%; insignificant to think it means anything...”

If it was so insignificant then my social media feed and this thread wouldn’t be filled with people crying about a “man beating up a woman.”

im not confused at all. it would appear that beg and ksf are the ones that are confused.

they the one that posted these gems.

"Being intersex isn’t a disorder, disease or condition."

now hes posting that dsd (disorder of sexual development) is indeed a "disorder" and a "condition" when it is convenient for him to do so.

or ksf who seems to think that removing an infant boys foreskin is somehow comparable to removing his entire penis in an attempt to "reassign" gender.

"What seems really strange about all this talk about mutilation of kids regarding sexual organs, seems nobody has any issue with circumcision which is mostly due to religious beliefs."

lastly...this gem posted by you...

"Evidenced by your obsession with it."

how many posts do i have on this thread? how many posts does beg have?

is he obsessed?

lol

Where have I called it a disorder? I’m pretty careful with my words and while other people may have referred to being intersex as a disorder, pretty sure I haven’t.

“how many posts do i have on this thread? how many posts does beg have?”

And how many trans related threads have I started. That would be zero.

exactly.

the "experts" that you referred to said what khalef has is both a "disorder" and a "condition."

really? show me where ive stigmatized or marginalized anyone (other than maybe you and ksf).

all ive done is post what your "expert" (cleveland clinic) said about the "disorder" or "condition" that Khalef is said to have. (see link)

"Healthcare providers used to call DSDs “intersex” conditions. Intersex refers to people who have chromosomes, genitals or reproductive organs that don’t fit into the male/female sex binary. Some people with DSDs still embrace the term as an aspect of their gender identity. But people who feel strongly male or strongly female may choose not to use it."

like i said before...im no expert but maybe it is you that is using outdated or incorrect terminology.

"Differences of sex development (DSD) is a group of conditions in which there is a discrepancy between the external (outside) genitals (penis, scrotum, vulva, labia) and the internal (inside) genitals (testes, vagina, ovaries). Intersex is an older term for DSD."

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001669.htm#:~:text=Differences%20of%20sex%20development%20(DSD,an%20older%20term%20for%20DSD.

Doing a cheek swab to screen for differences, makes sense. There are folks who are DSD that if you did the "Spike test" and "flipped them over to look,"... Well, zero people here would know that vagina they were looking at was on an XY chromosome toting "man." But even better, one could be XY via screening and if they were not sensitive to androgens (a % of that population falls into that category), they would never go through male puberty at all, and have none of the positive performance gains which come from that.

So, the simplest option, and the option that gives dignity to all, is to screen via cheek swab and then dig deeper if the screening shows something funky.

Why? Because, especially in a nonwestern country (though it could happen here), a person who looks externally fully female and who has been raised since birth as a female is not "trying to cheat" by being a great athlete. It's possible they have not had a period because they were training a lot and believe that the training load has stopped menstruation. So the idea that you can destroy a human for, well, being a human is gross.

That said, with the screening test and then further verification/understanding, it can be clear if an XY person should be able to compete: YES if they are not androgen-sensitive and NO if they are androgen-sensitive.

The person in the Olympics has been beaten by women in international competition several times over her career. SHE has lived her life as a woman - from birth. IE, the "Spike test" failed.

If (and I'm not clear on this) she is androgen-sensitive, then she should NOT be competing against XX or XY's who are not androgen-sensitive.

This is not her fault - she's been playing by the rules she's been handed.

This is a dumb decision by the IOC assuming she's androgen sensitive.

That said, when people say stuff like "Imagine your daughter training for years to have to box / compete against a guy"... I shake my head a bit. Imagine you raised your daughter believing she was a normal XX female only to learn due to elite sport that she was not, and then, while living in a country where the American Right view of this issue would be considered liberal as hell, having to deal with that. How would that go over? Your lifelong daughter - and probably YOU - would be a pariah. Does that make sense?

It's really not cool. Not cool at all.

Should she be competing if she is androgen-sensitive? Absolutely not. But she should not be getting smashed publicly, and it would be great if people could look at this stuff with some nuance. Believe it or not, in elite sports, this issue is discussed a LOT, and it has been for many years - not just the last 3 days. The broad belief of the vast majority of sports science is clear (I basically just outlined it). But the application of these ideals gets dicey given REALITY is not as clear-cut as many people want it to be.

Male to female transgender person - clear that person should not compete against XX females. Also clear they should be treated with the dignity and respect you treat anyone else.

But for DSD people, who may well have lived their whole lives as women, it gets harder. As noted above, there is a good option (screen for XX/XY, then look deeper with solid testing to verify/understand that person's situation). Compassionately work with them on that path, given that this could be very hard for them.

Keep in mind these are human beings. Not memes and chyrons to enjoy getting mad about.

“That said, when people say stuff like "Imagine your daughter training for years to have to box / compete against a guy"... I shake my head a bit. Imagine you raised your daughter believing she was a normal XX female only to learn due to elite sport that she was not, and then, while living in a country where the American Right view of this issue would be considered liberal as hell, having to deal with that. How would that go over? Your lifelong daughter - and probably YOU - would be a pariah. Does that make sense?”

To further this point, my wife and I were talking about this issue this morning, and I filled her in on the details of what the controversy is about. Her response was “I feel so bad for her.” No, she wasn’t talking about the Italian boxer.

She was talking about someone who has the external makeup of a female, assigned female at birth, being raised as a girl now having to listen to people call her a man, claim she is cheating, and in general just throw hate her way.

“Beg, clearly convoluted thinking”

Wtf are you even talking about, Mike? If you don’t agree with a specific point, reference it, and say why. Your 4th grade level posts of ad hominem are getting so tiresome and adding exactly zero to the dialogue.

Will and BEG X2

says the guy that accused me of loving to "stigmatize people"..."marginalizing people"... and using "outdated terms."

oh the irony...

Judging by the continued ignorance and misinformation displayed on this topic and in general here, you’re probably right.

i dont "love" any term...i just use the ones that apply...based on what your "experts" (Cleveland Clinic) say.

"Disorders of Sexual Development (DSDs)

Disorders of sexual development are conditions where a person’s reproductive organs and genitals are “mismatched” at birth."

lol

For the record "dribble" is something one does with a basketball, "drivel" is meaningless talk or thinking, nonsense, or my personal favorite "twaddle".

I think paying the proper respect to a serious topic by actually trying to improve one's knowledge through research is hardly drivel. On the other hand, simply dismissing anything that runs counter to one's worldview only prolongs one's ignorance on the topic.

And for the record, I found Will's last post to be one formulated by thorough researching and that knowledge linked with sincere empathy. It was a standout of what a serious topic discussion should be and galaxies removed from "dribble" or "drivel".

I think you need to read some history about the Greeks. Homosexuality was pretty common. Also they recognized 3 genders.

Rut-N-Strut: “You guys are forgetting there are two suspected trans boxers.”

As for my reaction, hell yeah I'd object to my daughter boxing anyone that obviously looked like a man. I can't think of anyone I know that would approve of a dude boxing a woman. Wife beaters are weak screwed up POS.

If that woman is one of these .07 % ers, well all that is news to me. I don't know jack about any of that. Never heard of such a thing. What's between your legs dictates your sex afaic. What's in your head is another matter. Thus todays woke BS.

'I think you need to read some history about the Greeks. Homosexuality was pretty common. Also they recognized 3 genders.'

766 BC- The Greeks that came to the Sanctuary of Zeus at Olympia shared the same religious beliefs and spoke the same language. The athletes were all male citizens of the city-states from every corner of the Greek world, coming from as far away as Iberia (Spain) in the west and the Black Sea (Turkey) in the east.

Men, not trannies, prove to me that what you say is fact.

- [246] Benjamin, H. (1966). "The Transsexual Phenomenon". Transactions of the New York Academy of Sciences. 29 (4). New York: Julian Press: 428–30.

But lots don't care.

The rest of us are just following you rhode scholars

How is having a DSD “mentally aberrant behavior?” It’s almost like you either don’t read the details, or you’re not smart enough to understand them. Which is it Mike?

recently i had a very meaningful discussion with someone on this subject, and i had to humbly admit i can be pretty abusive with my language. We CAN be nice.....we can be respectful.....but that does go both ways.

If you do not want to be ridiculed, or experience the rejection from this type of behavior, then maybe we shouldn't be stirring the pot in the first place?

If they would have preformed their own show in private among like minded folks....we probably wouldn't be discussing this, at least not to this extent.

Why make this a world wide event that causes or forces others to see it? Why cause a stir?

Being respectful.....goes both ways

having a dsd is by definition "aberrant" (abnormal or nontypical) albeit physical not mental.

in my opinion in this particular case the better word would be "abhorrent"...and it would apply to the ioc not the athletes.

That was the whole point of my post. I’m trying to understand why Mike thinks a biological condition related to sexual development is MENTALLY aberrant behavior.

“in my opinion in this particular case the better word would be "abhorrent"...and it would apply to the ioc not the athletes.”

I wouldn’t take it that far. Would be nice if they were a little more forthcoming with information but they have touched on the key points - these competitors were born female, raised female, and have competed as females all their lives. These are undoubtedly sensitive subjects and I’m sure there are details they feel are due the appropriate level of privacy. The long and the short of it is these boxers meet the qualifications to compete, and are also complying with the notion of “compete as the sex you were assigned at birth,” which it seems everyone is in agreement as the right way to handle competition. I see even now the Italian boxer who abandoned the fight is showing signs of remorse for how she handled the fight and has apologized.

i agree with you in terms of dsd not being a "mental" condition...however it does look like we are making some headway.

it took a lot of back and forth for you to actually acknowledge that disorders of sexual development are indeed "disorders" and or "conditions."

aside from the athletes themselves...do you think the ioc made the right decision allowing biological males (xy chromosomes) to compete in the womens division?

in general i agree with what you describe being a mental condition. however...that may or may not be the case with these boxers.

Again, I still haven’t used the term “disorder” and I won’t.

“aside from the athletes themselves...do you think the ioc made the right decision allowing biological males (xy chromosomes) to compete in the womens division?”

I don’t consider the boxers biological males, so yes I think they made the right decision. The fact of the matter is with a DSD you don’t fit nicely into one bucket or another, and so other factors should matter. Like how you were raised, how you’ve competed, and whether your biology creates an unfair competitive advantage. Based on the answers to those questions (they were assigned female at birth for a reason, they grew up females, and have competed for a long time as females with no apparent unfair advantage) it’s good enough for me to treat them as female.

Now if these boxers have never lost a fight and were injuring the other fighters every time they stepped into the ring I might feel different, but that’s not the case. I’m also sensitive to the slippery slope you start going down when you start testing for “biological advantages.” I don’t prescribe to the notion that all people should be punished for genetic advantages.

Which has nothing to do with the conversation at hand. Try and keep up.

Anyone forcing nudity on others in a public setting where it is not welcome or expected is acting inappropriately.

So it comes down to genitalia versus chromosomes. The first says female, but the second says male. "assigned at birth" was based on physical observation. Genetic testing to determine chromosomes was done later. But here's the rub – a science based approach would factor in later-obtained knowledge.

Anyway, if it was not for this person's determination to participate in sports, the question probably would not have arisen. And we probably wouldn't even be aware that such individuals exist.

And we seem to be devoting an awful lot of time and energy to the rare exceptions.

wow...how blatantly sexist and misogynistic of you.

just in my lifetime...these are the womens sports that have been added to the olympic games...

Speed skating 1960 Volleyball 1964 Luge 1964 Shooting 1968 Basketball 1976 Handball 1976 Rowing 1976 Field hockey 1980 Cycling 1984 Table tennis 1988 Badminton 1992 Biathlon 1992 Judo 1992 Short track speed skating 1992 American Football 1996 Softball 1996 Soccer 1996 Curling 1998 Ice hockey 1998 Modern pentathlon 2000 Taekwondo 2000 Triathlon 2000 Water polo 2000 Weightlifting 2000 Bobsleigh 2002 Skeleton 2002 Wrestling 2004 Boxing 2012 Ski jumping 2014 Rugby 2016 BMX Biking 2020 Karate 2020 Skateboarding 2020 Surfing 2020 Sport climbing 2020

maybe those should have been left as is also.

why not? according the experts... "A disorder is a disruption to regular bodily structure and function."

"I don’t consider the boxers biological males, so yes I think they made the right decision."

so for you... the science isnt as relevant as the appearance?

sounds to me like you want to actually ignore the science and just rely on how you feel.

Quite the opposite. Have you seen the results of the testing performed on these boxers? What clear and unfair competitive advantage do they have? Having XY chromosomes alone doesn’t automatically give you an advantage - the fact that these boxers would likely destroy most men in the world if they fought is a testament to that.

Now if they have extraordinarily high levels of testosterone, that would possibly be a different story - but the presence of a Y chromosome hardly guarantees “high testosterone.” Personally, I haven’t seen the results of hormone tests suggesting that they do, have you?? I think that’s also as a slippery slope…plenty of XX females have high testosterone - should they be banned from competing as females too?

Spare us your indignation. There is a lot of misogyny in your Kamala threads yet you say nothing. If you actually cared you would call out those sexist comments. You haven't...not one single time.

not unlike your righteous indignation about pointing out trumps moral and legal issues...but no one elses.

an intelligent (albeit self proclaimed) man once said...

"...you only get to vote for yourself. I'll make up my mind who I want to vote for as it is my right. If you don't like it that is solely your own narcissistic problem."

...the exact same thing applies to posting on bowsite.

i will give you one thing...you are definitely consistent. consistent in embarrassing yourself. you get so excited about about sniping someone...you forget about your previous narcissistic snipes.

lol

"not unlike your righteous indignation about pointing out trumps moral and legal issues...but no one elses"

Trump does have legal and morality problems and what is worse he doesn't learn from his mistakes. More so than any president in our lifetime. "They all do it" is as stupid as saying jaywalking is the same as felony fraud. But keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about yourself. I don't cheat and lie like Trump, I'm no felon, I been married 20 years and I don't cheat on my wife. So I personally have higher moral ground compared to Trump. He's an immoral toxic human.

Why all the replies if nobody pays attention LMAO? Another post with lack of any contextual value from csalam.

to my knowledge...the "results of the testing" showed xy chromosomes. the "science" says xy chromosomes is a biological male.

"competitive advantage" is subjective...not to mention the fact that it exists between members of the same biological sex. height is a "competitive advantage" is basketball. but that doesnt mean shorter males should be competing against females.

thats why i said earlier...

"im no expert but it sounds to me like the chromosome test might be the best way to determine whether an athlete is a male or a female. genitalia or no genitalia...the chromosomal makeup seems to dictate things like testosterone levels...etc."

if you are xx you compete with the females. if you are xy you compete with the males.

i never called out beg for anything whatsoever having to do with misogyny. again...in your haste to get your little snipe in...you stick your foot in your mouth.

like i said before...you sure are consistent. lol

Are you crying uncontrollably when you flip out and type something like that out of the blue? lmao, that right there is a huge part of the reason I read these threads, every time one of the posters here with TDS starts going off out of the blue like a wind up toy out of control, while a bit sad, it makes me laugh!!!

No it doesn't. It says it's much more complicated than that for some people.

"wow...how blatantly sexist and misogynistic of you."

Then

"i never called out beg for anything whatsoever having to do with misogyny. again...in your haste to get your little snipe in...you stick your foot in your mouth."

Ok Ricky lol...

Hunter- sure lol. All that whining and not a single political thread started. It's pretty obvious who is whining incessantly. Many of use are just replying to the whining and misinformation that's pretty standard by Trumpers.

As was pointed out, it’s not that simple. The attached Fox News article talks about how to ascertain the level of competitive advantage someone with a DSD might have, again, based on hormone levels and nothing to do with chromosomes.

“When it comes to Khelif, or Taiwanese boxer Lin Yu-ting, who also was disqualified from her championship in 2023 by the International Boxing Association for reportedly failing gender eligibility testing, the IOC has ruled both decisions sudden and arbitrary and has allowed them to compete in the Olympics. I have no reason to doubt the IOC here, and I agree with their decision. But I do have a question: Is a person’s genetic makeup in terms of X and Y chromosomes relevant? I would think so, if only in terms of whether the hormones that are produced as a result of these genes deliver a competitive advantage similar to taking supplemental hormones.

In other words, test the relevant hormones, not the genes that produce them.“

What you are doing is quite likely asking someone who is in fact a female to go fight a male, Ricky. How do you think a boxer with multiple losses to females with XX chromosomes would fare against a true male?

TDS at its finest

Dang Flat can’t help himself

Proved HunterR point to a T

What in your opinion constitutes "trivialities"? Is it attempting to discuss the actual science relevant to the Olympic boxers? I'm curious as to what you consider them to be.

"while ignoring the main point"

Which main point would that be? One could argue there are now 2 in this thread; it started off as "Drag Queen parody of last supper?"

I don't think that point has been ignored, far from it.

It seems to have now moved onto the question of biological males competing against biological females, and if anything, that has had a much more robust discussion than the original topic of this thread.

Which point do you feel their ignoring in their focus on trivialities?

"Another is that they never shy away from displaying their overly emotional and irrational thought process to the world."

Hey, maybe I'm way out on a limb here but I always thought calmly laying out the pertinent facts and backing them up with citations (which anyone could check to confirm) was dispassionate and rational discussion; frankly, the world (and certainly this forum) could use a lot more of it.

On the other hand, I think the rush to apply labels is antithetical to that practice. I find more often than not that it's the first refuge of the side that has the sinking realization that they've come up way short on the factual side of an argument.

"Which point do you feel their ignoring in their focus on trivialities?" Refer to the above. They will attempt to use any topic to push an agenda they support.

No it wasn’t. It was turned into that by Mike U. posting about the boxing story with a claim that the Olympics was allowing a man to beat up on a woman.

“Refer to the above. They will attempt to use any topic to push an agenda they support.”

What exactly are you arguing is being supported? That a person born a female with female genitalia should be allowed to compete with females? Are you saying you don’t support that?

I’ve known Mike in CT a long time. He’s one of the most intellectual, thoughtful, articulate, and logical posters on Bowsite. He seems to understand the points I have been making, CaptMike. You, however, seem to not only miss the whole conversation but then use every post you make to disparage and denigrate other posters.

Ok Ricky lol..

exactly...

when I said

"wow...how blatantly sexist and misogynistic of you"

it was in reference to a post gray ghost made...not beg. thats why i quoted him.

why dont you go back and read it again...this time try to go slower and try to comprehend what you read.

like is said...at least youre consistent. (but please stop...youre embarrassing yourself)

lol

youre right...its not that simple. if it was simply a matter of hormone levels...what about a biological female (xx chromosomes)...who naturally has elevated testosterone levels? would that be a competitive advantage? should she be disqualified from competing with other biological females?

like i said...a chromosome test may not be perfect but it might well be the most objective and consistent.

I literally brought that last point up in my last post. Which is why I’m not necessarily a fan of disqualifying someone for naturally occurring hormone levels.

“like i said...a chromosome test may not be perfect but it might well be the most objective and consistent.”

Or we can just go with the sex assigned at birth. Seems pretty objective and consistent to me.

Oh my mistake. Point still stands. Spare us the indignation while you stroll by silently with the misogyny on your incessant political threads.

LMAO gray ghost not BEG. What an amazing insignificant point vs context.

CaptMike- you ever get tired of being wrong lol

Lets keep it consistent and apply it to all sports, bathrooms, locker rooms, minors altering their gender physically and free speech regarding pronouns.

hey I have an idea…I'll make up my mind who I want to respond to as it is my right. If you don't like it that is solely your own narcissistic problem.

lol

leave it to gg to double down on stupid.

gosh...if there were just no womens sports at all...there wouldnt be any of these problems. that goes for track and field...volleyball...swimming...and any of the other more "feminine" sports. if women were just kept at home... barefoot and pregnant...none of this trans stuff would be an issue...right?

same goes for all problems women experience in professions that were traditionally male or "masculine" like physicians...attorneys...all the skilled trades...business...politics...etc.

dang...if our wimmin folk would just stay home and cook...clean...and belch out babies every other year or so...think how much better things would be...right?

at the end of the day...i dont particularly enjoy womens combat sports either. i was simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those that are constantly telling us we need to let people live their authentic lives...and you just proved my point...better than i ever could.

thank you...

edit...

"Maybe you married a women who can kick your ass, and you are strangely attracted to that. I wouldn't be surprised."

i was just going to let this go...but if further proves what kind of person you are. taking a swipe at someones spouse? really? whats next...my kids?

"In late response, Vatican ‘deplores the offense’ of Paris Olympics’ opening ceremony tableau"

"ROME (AP) — The Vatican said Saturday it “deplored the offense” caused to Christians by the Olympic Games opening ceremony, a scene of which evoked Leonardo da Vinci’s “The Last Supper” and featured drag queens.

A week after a storm of criticism erupted around the event, the Holy See issued a statement in French that it was “saddened by certain scenes at the opening ceremony” and joined those who had been offended.

“At a prestigious event where the whole world comes together to share common values, there should be no ridiculous allusions to religion,” it said."

The lunatics are the ones who are telling Merriam-Webster and the others whose whole job it is to tell us what words mean that they are wrong.

"But the SRY gene’s function isn’t always straightforward. The gene might be missing or dysfunctional, leading to an XY embryo that fails to develop male anatomy and is identified at birth as a girl. Or it might show up on the X chromosome, leading to an XX embryo that does develop male anatomy and is identified at birth as a boy.

Genetic variations can occur that are unrelated to the SRY gene, such as complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS), in which an XY embryo’s cells respond minimally, if at all, to the signals of male hormones. Even though the proto-gonads become testes and the fetus produces androgens, male genitals don’t develop. The baby looks female, with a clitoris and vagina, and in most cases will grow up feeling herself to be a girl.

Which is this baby, then? Is she the girl she believes herself to be? Or, because of her XY chromosomes—not to mention the testes in her abdomen—is she “really” male?"

What we have in the example here isn't someone who is "sick" or "warped" but rather someone with the bad luck of drawing the short straw in the genetic lottery. Theirs isn't a choice, it's an unavoidable, inescapable reality.

We hear the phrase "the miracle of birth" yet many fail to grasp the magnitude of the phrase. With all of the cellular divisions there are literally millions of chances for something to go wrong. Thankfully, the majority of the time it doesn't and the pregnancy results in a normal, healthy child.

Which brings me to another phrase that perhaps may cause some to question their simplistic casting of the issue "there but for the grace of God go I."

This gender issue, as somewhat defined in your Wiki cut/paste, is a more recent social construct created in an effort to rationalize/normalize gender dysphoria. How people dress, or who they choose to poke, and where, is their business. I'm not telling them how they should live their lives, and they most certainly don't need my approval to live any damn way they please.

I just wish people would stop trying to tell me it's "normal". It ain't, never was, never will be.

Certainly accounts for only a small fraction of the population, so by that lens you could argue it’s not “normal.” But it’s certainly nothing new, has been around essentially as long as history has been recorded, and is not unique to any one country, culture, or peoples.

This I can agree with.

A male with standard equipment may dress like a woman and then pretend he's a woman. My objection is when society tells me that I also have to pretend he's a woman. If I choose not to go along (pretend), modern society then says I'm some kind of bad person, and am given a demeaning label as punishment.

yep...as is the realization that because of that lottery we just might not have the opportunity to participate in all the things we might like or think we deserve to.

Therein lies the rub; you can't champion constitutional freedom and deny it to others, regardless of how personally abhorrent you find the object being promoted. That's the reality of the First Amendment being the sword that cuts both ways. All we can do is one of two things; ignore it completely or arrange a peaceful counterdemonstration that promotes your beliefs and values.

"Even here on a bowhunting site, we have a few who go to lengths to push an agenda by citing minuscule cases to attempt to legitimize what is largely deviant behavior."

I haven't seen anything of the sort; what I've seen is posters trying to draw a clear line between what is a conscious choice to engage in deviant behavior versus that small segment of the population for whom it isn't a choice but a direct product of genetics.

I think this thread might have had a much lower number of posts if obfuscation and hyperbole weren't being doled out like cotton candy at the County Fair.....

im certainly no expert but if it is real...is it common for someone with female genitalia to wear groin protection?

The guy whose posts are strictly limited to calling people “nut jobs,” “lunatics,” “mentally” ill, “convoluted,” “sick,” “mentally aberrant,” and “irrational” is now worried about being labeled a hater?? lol that ship has sailed, CaptMike, and no doubt who’s at the helm.

Yes.

This topic is like abortion. Very passionate.

For biological males competing in women’s sports. I agree with the scientific method.

If the person went through puberty with male hormones. They have a biological advantage over a female that went through puberty as a female. And should either compete as a male or with others in the same make up as them

Not so. Female fighters in the UFC all wear groin protection. Apparently, a wayward kick to the cootchie can be quite painful.

i wonder if holly holm got that memo?

lol

"you will 100% go through male puberty...and you will get all the benefits of male puberty....with the lengthening of the femur and all the bones...and the heart enlarging and the lung capacity growing...and the bone strength and the muscles...all of it...you will get all those advantages...and that is what happened to these two olympic boxers."

So, should every baby born be subjected to that level of testing? Or, as someone said 100 posts ago do we just 'turn them over and look'? And do we really expect that level of testing done in Third World countries?

Yes, these people are freaks and probably should not be competing, but until the governing bodies refine their rules, it is what it is. (And let's not ignore the differences between rulings among the different governing bodies...)

Hopefully, now that the problem has been highlighted, we can expect more clarity going down the road.

Otherwise she’s just making shit up.

sure...why not? i dont know about every baby born...but certainly to compete in something like the olympics.

is a cheek swab too invasive?

Anybody here running for a seat on one of those organizations?

When the government takes sides(legislates) in a belief system, that's tyranny. A secular society has never been American, but an unbiased government that tolerates the minority is what was written. The promotion of a godless society is un-American and has been underway since the 1947 Supreme Court decision, wherein Justice Hugo Black, willing KKK member, misapplied the Jefferson letter to Danbury Baptists and forbid the Creator his place in the American public arena. Suppression of faith in God is where the government has sought to usurp God in authority of the people.

"Freedom is the natural condition of the human race, in which the Almighty intended men to live. Those who fight the purpose of the Almighty will not succeed. They always have been, they always will be beaten." - President Elect Abraham Lincoln, 1860

Constitutional freedom is God given, not government given.

I ask this of the liberals here. If that opponent of that guy was your daughter, and she trained her whole life to compete in the Olympics for her country, and she took a beating from a man posing as a woman would you agree with it? The answer is no, but you're delusional mind won't allow critical thinking even though it's your blood who took that beating.

"Given Imane Khelif's masculine features and upper-body muscle mass, we can almost certainly rule out Swyer syndrome."

he also stated on twitter that his money would be on khelif having "5-ARD."

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/

Or men dressing like women, and all this stuff, and thinking it's ok...all in the name of freedom? something deep down inside tells me.......these people are not free at all, but in bondage in their sin. Lots of people have vices that enslave them, sadly they seek freedom, profess freedom, or demand freedom, not realizing that the enemy to their freedom is themselves.

This constant need to display, promote, or be reassured is a product of a inner battle they themselves struggle with.

There are occasions where people are born with physical gender abnormality's but they are rare. The most common defect that is causing this stuff is sin.....we are all born with it. Trying to reassure ourselves it's ok, leads to bondage, and deterioration of society.

Knowing the consequence of sin and realizing that it can cause some real problems in life leads to true freedom.

Look around....Problems?, we sure have them yes. It will not end here, just get worse.

It will go from....easy divorce.....to deterioration of family.....children without proper mother and father figures.....to homosexuality......to same sex marriage.......to gender confusion......to?

Is this freedom?

while i agree with your overall sentiment...it should be noted that gender confusion is not a physical abnormality...it is a mental abnormality.

i have no doubt that physical abnormalities can and do contribute to gender confusion (dsd/swyer syndrome/klinefelter syndrome/frasier syndrome for example) but the two are separate.

if the discovery process in france is anything like it is here...i suspect many of the questions in this thread will be answered.

I linked Gateway pundit that has a few short clips of her