I currently have a stainless steel Kimber 1911, which I love. Problem is it is in .45 ACP which when I got it I didn't realize how much less power it has than a 10mm. (484 Ft-Lbs with Buffalo Bore rounds, vs 703 Ft-Lbs from a 10mm version). I prefer stainless for the rain in Alaska and other places I may be in the future. I also really like the 1911. I have a Glock, but I am just a better shot with the 1911 and I think that matters more than anything else.
I would like to get one of the Rocky Mountain Elk Federation Camp Guard 10mm guns. Essentially, almost the same gun I have now but in 10mm. Sadly, California has deemed it "not safe" for sale in California. Is my best bet to find somebody in law enforcement, who can legally buy them, and then have them transfer the gun to me? Or is there a better way to get one? Or, alternatively, is there something comparable that I can get in California?
Thanks.
maxracx's Link
Well, that does matter more. Are you better with the 1911 because you've shot 10K+ rounds out of it and only a fraction of that with the Glock? That's fixable.
I'm more comfortable and shoot better with my practice .22, but I won't take it into the bush. But as I noted, I'm considering switching to 9mm because I shoot it better than 10mm when shooting quickly.
What hunt are you going on? There's a big difference between a sheep hunt and a moose hunt as far as bears are concerned. And guided vs unguided makes a difference too.
A Sig P220 is often considered an easy transition for 1911 fans.
A wheel gun with well over 1000ftlbs is my choice in big bear country. Nothing is free. Cost, power, recoil, handling, dependability, accuracy, etc all come with a trade-off of some sort.
If I did that trip over again I would absolutely be carrying a Glock 20 and a spare mag on a chest rig. 2.5 more shots and a much faster reload. Plus shooting full house .44 bear loads accurately in a .44 is way less likely than a 10MM at half the power factor.
I think the massive switch in the last few years from heavy revolvers to the G20 is good . IME 44 is a very tough caliber to shoot fast and accurately with full factory loads. The recoil is substantial. Getting back on target takes time. I've always been a revolver guy, but for a fact semis are more ergonomic, much easier to shoot, easier to keep on target in combat mode, and a WHOLE lot faster to reload.
Go to the range, set up your target. Load your gun with three rounds, then walk 40 yards away from your shooting position. Now sprint to your shooting position, draw and fire three quick shots. Repeat for ten sets. Not sure why people think they can only work out at the gym...
A friend of mine from this area was notorious for running through a 3-D course in record time while making 30 shots. 2 mile course, 30 targets, it would take him an hour and five minutes. He jogged most of the way between shots and scoring. He didn't turn in the highest scores, but he was ready to shoot with his heart pounding hard. The trophies on his wall attest to his methods' effectiveness.
Glocks do require more technique than the light triggered heavy frame 1911’s…but its not all that much.
It might be worth considering a 9mm glock; easier to shoot accurately, lighter and more compact and with the right ammo, they have the same penetration as a 10 mm.
What ever handgun you choose it’s more about the proper bullet and proficiency than caliber or revolver vs semi auto.
Also it’s a good idea to have a lanyard on the weapon. So if you get mauled your weapon is tied to you.
Train shooting from your side and on your back. Legs in the air and weak hand. You’ll see it’s very easy to shoot your self when in a brawl and shooting at the same time.
Thornton's Link
One advantage I like with Glock is I can practice with cheaper more available less recoil .40 SW in a Glock 10mm. Yes it works just fine like a .38 in a .357etc.
Take a few shots with the full bear loads before heading out if wanted. If you need to use it, the shots will be fast and close. Load up with Bear Load when in the field.
To me more important than the pistol is how you carry it! I really like the Kenai Gunfighter chest holster. Must have it at all times.
The odds of ever actually using one is very slim, even living in big bear country. I would have used it once but didn’t have it on! But that’s another story
My weapon of protection will be a lightweight 20ga packed with slugs and TSS buckshot
I just know for a fact I can get on target a lot faster with that than a pistol. But, that’s likely because of all the wing shooting I do vs almost no pistol shooting.
Plus I think those ammo choices would rock one’s head a lot harder
Btw, I totally know what you mean about Glock vs 1911 in terms of what feels right in your hands.
My friend Bruce, the guy with the .41, was a non drinking Mormon. We had pulled the raft over to fish. I grabbed my Nalgene bottle filled with a 5th of whisky, took a swig, and extended it to him. He said, "Bob this is the first drink I've had since I was in college." A few minutes later were rafting down the Koktuli again. Bruce was in the back of the raft steering, and started singing away. Me and Steve were up front on either side straddling the raft tubes, paddling and laughing.
Two greenheads flew up river over us. 'BOOM!!!' Bruce shot a duck out the sky with his .41. I shit you not.
I’m not sure if he includes it in his videos, but physical punishment for “dropped shots” is a great motivator in shooting well. Grab a Glock 20 and for every shot you drop out of a standardized target size you owe yourself 20 burpees. For example just say your benchmark target size under stress is an 8” circle. Do suicide sprints back and forth between the 20 and 10 yard lines and fire 3 shots every fourth time you’re back at the twenty. Do this for however many shots Your Monarch in Cali allows. 2 of your shots landed outside of your circle? There’s 40 burpees. You’ll either be really fit or a really good shot.
With very little practice I can shoot that P365 9 mm much faster and more accurate than my 40 caliber pistol, and my 45 Colt. And I can put 17 rounds in the magazine. And it’s light to carry.
I’m not a bear expert by any stretch, but I guess I don’t see the point in carrying a heavy cannon that you can’t shoot well or quickly.
Now if you’re packing meat and/or going back to a kill site (or checking bait sites in areas where it’s legal in Alaska), I think I’d much prefer to have my 45-70.
Whatever you use...train and be proficient with it. For the OP to say, "I don't have time"
That attitude is why Uptain is dead. Thats the case a few years back where the guide was killed as the hunter totally relied on the guide and couldn't shoot a pistol...in fact, he tossed the guide the Glock...but hit the mag release when he did..... tossing him an unloaded pistol with the bear right there on him.
A person falls back on their training in those pressure situations....
I went to the range this weekend. It had been a while since I went - 8 years, in fact. My Glock is the G22, so a 40 S&W and if I went with a Glock, I would still be needing to buy a new one (G20 is the model, I believe). I still prefer the 1911. Next time I go, I will see about renting a 10mm and trying it out. I noticed they had a 10mm 1911 on the wall when I was leaving. My guess is they probably have a G20 as well.
I was told $1600 out the door for a 1911 stainless 10mm Kimber. Gotta love California taxes.
I’m thinkin’ that’s what Bear Spray is for. Something with a 50% chance of working and a 10% of missing still beats the hell out of anything with a 90% chance of working and a 60% chance of missing…
I ran off a good-sized black bear the other day with my 243….. pound nephew…. LOL. The bear bluff-charged from about 12-15 yards and swapped ends real quick when we didn’t budge…
Yeah, Griz are a whole different animal…
“ I’m not a bear expert by any stretch, but I guess I don’t see the point in carrying a heavy cannon that you can’t shoot well or quickly.”
Rhetorical Question: Does it make any better sense to carry a pea-shooter that you can shoot rapid-fire, but neither quickly nor well?
Just a thought, but Dry-fire practice doesn’t require a trip to the range. Maybe one of those laser-pointer training systems would help with your first-shot accuracy? When everything really depends on Placement, it just seems odd to be considering the purchase of a more powerful handgun to not practice with…
Maybe I have not worded things well, but my intent was not to buy a gun and have my first shot with it be on a grizzly should I be attacked. My mention of not wanting to spend massive amount of range time was in response to why I am not as good with a Glock as I am with a Springfield 1911 and if I want to put in a huge amount of time to get as good with a Glock as I am with the 1911. I am sufficiently proficient with the 1911 in .45 ACP and would be putting in enough time with the 10mm to be proficient with it regardless of the make of gun I will be getting.
The hunter who shot himself, from what I gather, was not due to not knowing how to use his gun as much as the mayhem and panic of shooting a bear when it is on top of you. It takes a phenomenal amount of practice to have enough muscle memory to override the panic of a situation like that if you are wired to freak out and it is hard to know how you would respond until you have been in that situation at least once.
I don't even have an Alaskan hunt or anything in grizzly territory yet, but will put in practice time to make sure I am ready when that time comes. I do need to get the gun though so I am available if a cancellation hunt comes up, because of the wait to get said gun here and a limit of one gun purchase at a time. We cannot even order ammo online here anymore unless it is shipped to an FFL.
My apologies using you as an example…you are just one of many that I see going into the woods with spray or pistols that they have rarely fired. A Very successful man like yourself knows that preparation is critical to success…. It actually surprised me that you made that comment.
Something to consider is a weapon that functions perfectly in bad conditions. A lot of the 1911s are designed more for target shooting chambers and tight actions that can jam. I own a Kimber…. I Would not trust my life to it.
Yes, the hair trigger makes them inherently more accurate for most people. Something like a G20 is much more reliable….but seriously, check penetration on 9mm hc rounds- its impressive and easy to shoot in something like a G17 or G19.
