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Elk Calling Question

I hunted this year in MT for 6 days 9/13-9/20. We hunted thick timber. Steep. Not many walking trails or places to glass. We covered 50 miles in the 6 days. So we covered some ground. And we hunted 4 different areas during this time - so not the same educated elk. Each day we either heard a bull bugle on their own very early in the morning OR they responded to an advertising bugle when we were trying to find elk. Most of these bulls would bugle once or twice…..we would keep the wind in our favor, cut the distance, and either wait for the elk to talk or we would cow call to see if we could get a response in order to pin point their location. None and I mean none of the bulls ever talked after their initial bugles.

We spoke to many other hunters we ran into on mountain roads and every single person said the exact same thing.

How would any of you figure this out and get in front of bull to kill it in this scenario? Thanks for the help.

If you hear them you should be on them like shit. Maybe spend more time in less area and know those better. They live there and it is up to you to find them through sign or sound or smell. Once you do try applying pressure on the bull by aggressive bugle and cow calls, raking,ect. With 2 guys move with one always 100 yards downwind of the primary caller. Be alert and patient at the same time, coming in silent can happen at anytime too. These are just some things I do right or wrong and nothing works all the time. Keep at it and you will definitely kill one, its not easy you know!

#1...."In his wheelhouse

If you hear them you should be on them like shit. Maybe spend more time in less area and know those better. They live there and it is up to you to find them through sign or sound or smell. Once you do try applying pressure on the bull by aggressive bugle and cow calls, raking,ect. With 2 guys move with one always 100 yards downwind of the primary caller. Be alert and patient at the same time, coming in silent can happen at anytime too. These are just some things I do right or wrong and nothing works all the time. Keep at it and you will definitely kill one, its not easy you know!

Sounds like a few hunters bugling to each other.

Same thing in central WY, I called in one, no shot and got a few other 1 time answers. At least here it was VERY hot which may have influenced it

It wasn’t hunters bugling to each other. A lot of the bulls were answering in the dark and it’s pretty easy to tell a hunter vs a bull. Actually pretty easy.

Covering ground to get to the bulls would take an hour or more in most cases due to the terrain. We would also bugle or chuckle when all other options failed. Never got a bull to repeat bugle. And every hunter we spoke to said the same thing. It wasn’t isolated. Thanks for the help so far.

Everyone is bugling way way too much and the elk are educated now. Trust me leave your bugle in camp and go into areas you know there are bulls. Just soft cow call to tell where they are.

That’s the thing ^ it’s all timber and steep steep. You can’t see elk. If you don’t hear them you can’t find them. But they are there. We picked our way through absolute shit most days. 2500’ up and down. When we’d hear a bull, that was the only call we heard. There were no hunters in where we went. None.

You see it yet Blood?

It's the new reality in hard hunted units.

Sadly, we have to adapt. It's not like the old days when we could bugle in 4 bulls a day on OTC ground.

Myself...and my 2 other buddies went 3 for 3 this year...adapting.

Ok. So HOW would one get close to elk if they don’t talk past that original bugle, you can’t glass them and you don’t know if you’re inside that 150-200 yard “zone” where they are forced to talk? No one has answered that yet. Appreciate the help as always.

Sadly, that's the new normal here in Montana on public lands. We don't bugle any more, except a location bugle first thing in the morning to see if anything is around, then it's only cow calls. This is on public land, we do have permission for some private land, and we hunted it over this past weekend and the bulls were going crazy, like they were crazy hot, answering everything, and we had a herd bull chasing cows and running off the smaller raghorns. When I asked around at work today about what everyone else was seeing, it was the same story as what you experienced. Now here's my opinion about why this is going on, it's the amount pressure of hunters calling non stop. Some will say it's also the wolves, but on the private I hunt, there is wolves there, and if they do howl the elk tend to shut up, but it's only temporary, they will start up again later. So again, this is my experience on both public and private lands.

Blood, in years past what you experienced was the exception. These days, seems like it’s becoming the rule more often than not. IMO, a couple things have contributed to the change. As others have mentioned, elk have become call-shy due to every Tom, Dick, and Harry tooting on their call every 10 seconds as they tromp through the woods…most of them paying absolutely zero attention to the wind. This includes both bugles and mews. Secondly, I believe that bulls that have a tendency to be vocal also have a tendency to be killed. Those less vocal bulls are left to pass on their less vocal genes. Obviously, no scientific proof, just something I believe to be true.

I also hunt in fairly heavy timber. If a bull only bugles once or twice, and he’s 300 yds from where you’re at, good luck. You can sneak in to where you THINK you might be within his “wheelhouse” and try bugles, mews, raking, etc, hoping to get a response. Unless you’re lucky, chances are by the time you get there, that bull may be 1/4 mile away. You can also try some bugles/mews as you’re working your way towards where the bull bugled, hoping to get a response. Problem is, if he doesn’t answer, you’ve announced your presence to the herd. In the thick timber, every eye, ear, and nose is now focused on you. 99.999% of the time, all you’re going to do is hear crashing timber.

IMO, when the bulls are quiet, all you can do is keep after them. You never know when the next bull is going to cooperate. Setting up and doing some cold calling can entice a silent bull to slip in. And you never know when a herd might wander right into your lap. That actually happened to my son this year.

The rut seemed odd this year me and my buddy spent 14 days in Wyoming starting the 8th of September I killed on the 18th but up to that point crickets and finally good rut action the last few days my bull came across open country along with another bull we should have killed that got down wind , over 1200yds they came to the call bug eyed bugling and glunking the whole way when the time is right it’s right you just have to be there

We also hunt very steep timber country with old logging cuts here and there... The elk live in that timber and usually head out for these open (over grown) cuts in the evenings ( no big news there ).. We experience some of the same as you, We hunt with very little hunter pressure... We have had some success last couple of years after locating that bull that bugles once or twice telling his herd it's time to timber up... We have located areas we can get on the opposite end of where we figure they are coming into bed and slowly start working our way through timber only cow calls along the way.. Trust me they know you are there and are interested.. Ideal situation is to be a bit below them or the level you think they are coming into timber. Stop a lot and listen if you have a hard time seeing them I believe it can be the same for them... Rare to have a clear line of sight for more than 50 yards.. We have twice now made our way all the way through a patch of timber only to have a bull sound off because he realizes we are about to exit where he want us and the game begins.. Other times we have visually by the sign on the ground realized we are in the zone and ripped a bugle after all the walking and cow calling and the response is immediate and usually aggressive. Hard to answer your question as to how close when you don't know exactly where they are, You just need to sense them or read the sign. One thing I do know is if you are very close they will usually let you know with a grunt or a bark not always a bugle...

I totally agree with 137.

Sure calling still works in the right situation...and it works with elk that haven't been bugled to every 100y up the trail by everyone with a bugle tube.

We used to rely on calling....now we have to rely on reading sign and hunting skills....

If you are under 100 yards, you may have a chance of calling (or raking) them in, I only like to challenge them if I can slip into their "comfort zone".

Getting there is the real challenge...always keep the wind right, and use your eyes, ears, and nose! If you smell them, often times they are very close.

Took us 3 days of this "cat and mouse" game with early morning bugles, to finally get close enough to a bull this Season (we had been very careful not to blow them out). I crawled out front, my buddy lit him up, and I took him out with a 10 yard heart shot when he came charging in.

CBF and WYO, thank you. That’s what I was looking for. The areas we hunt don’t really have walking trails that cut through or trailhead access points other than bombing into a ravine from the road and climbing up a finger to call. It’s all up and down, thick timber, blowdowns, little to no meadows, lots of regen. Wallows in the creek bottoms. We hardly cow called as we were moving, we only called from spots we could see a little bit and we’d usually wait there for up to 25-30 mins at a time listening for a bugle or chuckle or grunt.

I like the idea of cow calling as you move until something answers. We ran across plenty of fresh sign, but never heard or saw elk….and never jumped them or blew them out. So it’s up to just moving and hoping or hear them and making a play once we do.

I think in this big elk game, almost everyone walks the trails or roads until they hear a bull and then make a play. It sure allows you to cover more ground rather than walking 6-7 miles in one area through the pines.

What I do know is the elk are much more Leary of calling than ever before, and a lot of hunters just keep blasting loud calls from bad areas at bad times educating even more elk! A lot of hunters have been sold on the high pitch bugle and proceed to blast it through a hard plastic tube to seem like a smaller bull. They need to tape the sound of that or have a buddy blow on it so they can hear how truly fake the tone sounds!!! It sounds like your blowing through a metal instrument, and if I can tell from a ways off you think the elk can’t from even further off. Even your average 5x has a nice gutteral mellow sound, not an ear piercing metal resonating pitch. As far as your scenario, quiet calf calls have been more productive for me lately. I still get some answers with a low pitch bugle especially early in season or in areas with better elk densities. The whole “get in the zone” is iffy at best, depends on what type of bull and his attitude. Ive had mature herd bulls leave the country in seconds early on when I bought into that. I’m much more selective with that approach now. This is all high pressure Colorado archery experience. I’ve seen the reactions of elk many times when hunters off a ways start calling, and it’s shaped how/when I call now.

We do utilize old logging roads behind gates to gain some ground... After years of no use by the timber companies these old roads can be worse to walk on than jumping into the timber or using natures interstate... also known as ridges... Of course you still always deal with blow down hell like in your picture from time to time... if you keep your head down it's amazing how you can learn to stay on the trail even tho it comes and goes around dead fall etc... I really paid attention this year on how the animals re-route the trail. you just need to see it... They like the easy path as much as we do.. Your picture with all the blow down looks like the edge of an old cut or burn that was regenerated or hand planted on the edge of what was standing timber that wasn't part of the cut... (always a mess!) Is there any "old growth" timber in your area? or some call it dark timber... this is where the elk wanna be in my opinion... especially in the new wolf era...

Blood, just my experience, but two things I would do a little different. I really believe 6 days on public land is too short a trip. 10 - 14 is much better for me, unless you really know the area well (i.e. a couple honey holes in your back pocket already). It can take 5-6 days just to get a good feel for where the elk are and what is working. Also, rut activity (Bugling) can change a lot over a couple weeks. I have seen it change from real slow to crazy good in a day. You kinda just have to be there when it happens. I Understand not everyone has two weeks to hunt but your asking. Second, If I were hoping for more rut activity and had six days, it would be after the 20th of Sept. not before. Good luck Tim.

Tim makes a good point... I have been hunting where I do for a long time and always take 2 weeks. When the woods go silent for 3 days in a row on a 5 or 6 day hunt that can be painful. In my area the 15th is always a day I want to be in the woods...

We had a lot of the same in Wyoming this year. I hunted an area where I could see very well due to some logging. If you tried to bugle and got a response and bugled again the bull would move off. In most cases he had at least 1 cow and was 200 to 300 yards away. I could see his response. He reacted the same to me or other bulls in the area. One night I was able to get within 80 yards before I bugled and he came in to 50 but no shot. Finally 1 morning they were amped up and was able to walk in with no calling for a shot. Guess my point is what I learned from this area is when it happens (bulls shut up after a bugle) leave the tube in the pack. When they talk you talk.

Somewhat typical morning for us this year, and we never called in a bull.

Smurph, thanks. I heard bulls every day. That wasn’t the issue. We just couldn’t get them to respond when we got close, so we had no idea how to get one in front of us if we didn’t know exactly where they were. I don’t feel you need a lot of time - if you can’t get close to them, it doesn’t matter. I’d love to kill one the first morning of the hunt and be done rather than drag out 7-8 days of nothingness and frustration. Lots of good advice here on how to get a response when you can’t see them. Appreciate all of it for sure. I’ll be implementing this and more in WY next year. No MT this next go round. Thank you!

One thing a lot of hunters don’t think about is that if you are seeing fresh sign, wallows, bugles, etc., the elk are there. Once you go tromping through the woods they can hear you from a long ways off and they usually will just walk away quietly. It’s better to stay in an area quietly with active elk sign than try and chase bugles in thick steep country. You will never catch up to them. I only chase a bugle if it’s close. Which to me is within 200 yds. Bulls that bugle once and then shut up are either a young bull by themselves or a bull that has cows. A bull will rather push those cows away from another bull vs charging in wanting to fight.

I agree with a lot of comments posted. I hunted my old haunts this season and they get a lot of pressure. We heard bugles but they wouldn’t come in and went silent. I prefer for them to bugle and I sneak in if possible without saying a peep. I like to ambush them also on travel corridors.

GG, no wind. Extremely calm. Bugles would mostly come from ravines between fingers where there was only one place the elk would be. On one occasion we surprisingly glassed a lone bull on an opposite hillside that bugled back to us. We got under that one inside of 200 yards and zippo. On 3 occasions we had bulls respond to our advertising bugle and we knew exactly where they were bugling back to us. Got close to those spots, good wind. Silent. Found their tracks in the fresh dirt. Set up. Cow called. Zippo. If we blew them out, we would have heard them. But I appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!

As a tree stand hunter I was not going to post on this thread, but here in Oregon we are experiencing the same response to bugling as Blood and 137buck have. My son and his friend were complaining about this same experience. Bulls occasionally come to my call still. Like 137buck, I make one short location bugle then shut up. Right after making the call, I quickly climb into my stand and stay quiet.

I have killed several that came in two hours after my call. Sometimes the elk will come and stand exactly where I called from. Some hang up when they see there is no bull where the call came from. I have learned to call from a small spot that requires the elk to come within my bow range before it can determine no elk was there. I have learned that the spot I call from needs to be at a place where I can make a shot. I have not done enough cow calling to know if it would help or harm my prospects at getting a bull to expose itself. It seems that one bugle is enough to pique the elk's curiosity, and by not continuing to call they don't get scared off.

Tough situation for sure. Only other suggestion, especially for less than 7 day hunts, is to get up and go bugle and listen in the dark. We get up at 3:30am and head out and bugle at 5-10 spots to try to identify where they are as not usually too far away from those spots at daylight. It may give you a chance to get closer to bulls you have been hearing right at daylight. Might not be able to if no logging roads or places that you can get to relatively easy in the dark. I think someone mentioned it, but if you strike out or they shut up quickly, before punting always do a set up (2 minutes of cow calling, one estrus, and spike squeal at the end and then wait 30-45 minutes). Sorry to hear no luck and hopefully all the ideas will help.

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