Remington Green Box .45/70
Bears
I’ve never seen these out East, but it appears Remington is producing 405 gr Core-Lokt loads for modern rifles at 1600 fps…. Under $60/box at Murdoch’s….
Any sense at all in considering these as a bear-stomping round, or do you go straight to something truly unpleasant to shoot?
There was another box marked “Bear Loads” with either 405 or 425 grain slugs, but they didn’t specify a velocity and I didn’t see a warning about what rifles are suitable…..
I shoot open sites 375 Winchester, has finished off and taken a few bears, this season.
Next to a 12 sabot, manageable and effective
I reload my own. Doubt there's a bear that will stand up to a 300 grain Barnes. Just need to find a 'test subject.'
I'm a big 45-70 fan since a kid shooting my grandfather's trapdoor, and the old standard black powder load was 405 grain bullet and why that slug is still common in that caliber even with today's smokeless powders some reaching high velocities, and 405 gr Core-Lokt loads at 1600 fps will kill anything in North American...
Yeah, my dad was gifted a Trapdoor by his scoutmaster when the scoutmaster got called up for WWII. It hasn’t been fired in over 80 years, but I’d bet it’d do some interesting things with Cowboy loads, which are way more than adequate for bow-range shots at deer.
Just not sure about the 1600 fps thing. It’s not enough faster to matter as to trajectory, and I’m not sure that it would do anything to an angry bear that a cowboy load wouldn’t do…. LOL
Maybe it’s just a good 100-yard or maybe 150-yard round for iron sights on Elk?
Yeah, it's a 150 yard big game gun, maybe 200 yards if ya aim high enough...8^) I have a 45-70 barrel for my NEF single shot receiver along with a couple other caliber barrels...
I wouldn't worry about 1600 FPS, that 405 gr bullet is more arrow dynamic (Ballistic coefficient) and traveling faster only a few grains lighter than a 1 oz 12 gauge slug...
I picked up a NIB 1895SS some years ago (note — “SS” does NOT mean Stainless Steel) and it’s pretty slick. I verified with Marlin that it’s the barrel that does well with hard-cast, so it’s kinda heavy… but lighter than the Trapdoor!
I’ve only taken 1 deer with it. 6:00 hold from 65-80 yard range center-punched the heart with a 300 gr flying ashtray HP. 40-yard dash in a circle and down…. but that’s not a stopping round…..
I mounted a Vortex 2-7x32 scope on my 45-70 barrel and bought 2 boxes of 45-70 Hornady 325 gr FTXs a couple years ago (paid over $50 a box back then) but never had the time to sight it in yet... I have neighbors so it's not like and can fire it behind to house...8^) Although I have laser bore sighted it...8^)
Those Hornady 325 gr FTXs are rated for 2,000 FPS out of a 24" barrel, so I wouldn't have any problems hunting bear with it...
Now thinking about it this thread should have been started over on the NonTypical Firearms forum...
Yeah those Springfield Trapdoors were a load to carry, kinda makes you think how strong those solders were lugging those things around all day back in those times... My grandfather's was willed down to him from his father which it could have came from his father which would have been my great-great grandfather... My dad got it after my grandfather passed and while my dad and I were estranged at a time he sold it for $400... I'm still pizzed about it 30 years later...
Attached photo is a Springfield model 1873 like my grandfather's... I luved the flip-up iron sights...
Yup. Windage AND Elevation!
No wonder the Natives called them “Shoot Today, Kill Tomorrow”…..
Wow, haven't seen that sight picture in years, dang that brings back memories, thanks for sharing... Is that your dad's gun?
I use these 3 shells in my .45-70
Good luck, Robb
I enjoy shooting it at the range too.
I just looked up those HSM 45-70 Government +P Ammo 430 Grain Flat Nose, Bear Loads... 430 grains at 1,801 FPS, WOW, KABOOM!!!...8^)))
Ya got me looking up some of those +P loads on Midway:
Grizzly Cartridge 45-70 Government +P Ammo 405 Grain Cast Performance Flat Nose - 2050 FPS
Grizzly Cartridge 45-70 Government +P Ammo 460 Grain Cast Performance Flat Nose - 1800 FPS
Those 325 gr FTX's will fly flatter because of the pointy flex tip. However, there are issues reloading those shortened cases.
PS Ever see the movie 'Wind River' ?
I've got an old 1884 Springfield Trapdoor and this TC pistol in 45.70. The pistol is rather miserable to shoot with full velocity Hornady which are going for about $45-$50 a box here, but I can tolerate half a dozen shots at a time. In this video I made, I had spooned out most of the watermelon and just shot the hollowed out rind. I've always said the CoreLokts are some of the best killing bullets available, but I can't imagine a bear going far with a Hornady.
"Those 325 gr FTX's will fly flatter because of the pointy flex tip. However, there are issues reloading those shortened cases"
Yeah, I knew the Hornady FTXs had shorter brass but bought them anyhow to reload light loads, but also bought 50 new Starline unfired 45-70 brass around the same time... 90 cases oughta last me a reloading lifetime at my age...
Cool Thornton... I had a Contender back in the day and always wanted a 45-70 barrel for it but never did... Anybody remembers back in the day of JD Jones "Hand Cannons"?...8^)
I had a TC Contender in .375 Winchester that I killed a few deer and hogs with. I also had and still have one of the very first Winchester Big Bore 94s in .375 Winchester. I killed a truckload of deer with that one but I haven’t hunted with it in years. The ammo for it is astronomical now, I have seen original Winchester loads priced at $100 a box of 20 ! When HSM started loading it I bought ten boxes of it and already had about ten boxes of the original loads so I’m good seeing as how I never shoot it. ;-))
“I also had and still have one of the very first Winchester Big Bore 94s in .375 Winchester. I killed a truckload of deer with that one but I haven’t hunted with it in years. The ammo for it is astronomical now…”
I very nearly caved and bought one of those that had been languishing on the rack at a local gunshop for YEARS…. Went back a week later for a better look and it was gone… SMH…
Even back then, people were complaining about the cost of ammo for it, but when I looked into it more closely, the guy had been looking at .375 H&H loads… And at that rate, the pricing didn’t seem quite so absurd. Can you shoot .38–55 loads in your Winchester? It’s my understanding that the .375 Win was cobbled together to modernize that one, but I don’t know if the brass is compatible back-and-forth.
I guess the good news is that if you like the ballistics of the .375, you can pick up a Marlin and load it about as hot as you can stand… although at some point you probably begin having trouble coming up with a bullet which is designed to function properly at those velocities. I guess that’s the big issue with the .444 Marlin…. it has kind of Elk -looking ballistics, but the bullets tend to be designed to perform at handgun velocities… Or at least that was the case 20 years ago when I was a lot more interested in firearms than I am now. Probably a few things have changed…
Don't know about .444 Marlin ammo expense and availability, but I know .444 brass was readily available at a reasonable cost recently when messing around with them in a .410 bore...
I love my Winchester 94, Big Bore, 375. Bought it 2 weeks ago. 3rd owner, 20 rounds had ever been fired in it.
Came with 2 boxes of ammo, 200 grain. Made in New Haven CT, in like new condition.
I did tap off the front site hood, put a white marking on the blade.
900.00.....
Damn. I think the reason I was so tempted 20 years ago was that the price was about 1/3 o’ that. Dropped all of $350 on my Marlin… NIB.
I should probably have the stock cut down to fit me and get a Decelerator on it, though….
Restart this on the Nontypical forum. Thanks.
This Topic has been locked. Thank you.
