Using an eye bolt for safety harness??
Equipment
Surfing through YouTube videos and saw a bow hunter using an eye bolt screwed into the tree to attach his safety harness.
Guy stated it's a 4" eye bolt and he tested it with his whole body weight.
Is this next level thinking or a really dumb and dangerous idea.
I'm in the completely dumb and dangerous idea camp.
Looks like it could at least be screwed in another 1.5" . Its his butt.
I'm in agreement with dumb and dangerous.
I think some guys might do this on large diameter trees. What they should do is double the tree strap or rope.
Ok, but why? When you climb up attached to a life line just slide the prussic knot to desired height and hunt. No need to unhook, which is dangerous, and reattach to the eyebolt.
Not optimal. I bet 70% don’t use anything. He is a hell of a lot smarter than them.
It's still better than nothing...I discuss this topic with hunters frequently ....many use nothing.
Seems like this is a secure way to fasten a safety line. Why is this "dumb and dangerous"?
Greg Simon....plenty of people do not use a lifeline.
I wonder whether he tested it by slowly taking the slack out and hanging from it with his body weight , or whether he dropped a foot or two to see how it held under the sudden jolt of a fall with his full body weight? Then you would have to worry about the integrity of the particular spot of ,wood, below the bark, which could vary greatly. You sure would not catch me doing it.
So easy to just choke the tree. Why bother?
Well, in the first place I would screw it in another 1/2 turn so the "eye" couldn't open up as easy if somebody used a smaller diameter eye bolt.
That eyebolt will break under the force of him hitting the end of his lanyard. Fall restraints need to be rated for 5000#s to withstand the force of a 200# drop
No way on earth I’d stake my life on that.
There’s nothing an eye bolt will do that a nylon webbing sling won’t do…. Except kill the damn tree.
So JMO, it may be “next level”, but Next Level Stupid is kinda Next Level Stupid…
No way in hell just saying hope he doesn’t fall good luck all stay safe Lewis
Unrelated to safety—that carbiner + eye-bolt combination will make for some major metal-on-metal noise, I would think.
As JBrink said. Your anchor point should hold 5000 lbs.
Grey Ghost brought up another very good point. Every eyebolt is rated X amount of lbs on a strait pull. That number drops drastically as you add angle to the pull.
You can add me into “this is a very dumb idea”.
i use those to hang trail cameras there is no way i would trust it to hold my body weight flirting with disaster there
The eye bolt will hold him. All day long, 7 days a week. Jump off, ease off, slip off, etc….. it’s going to hold him. It’s not a dumb idea as long as he is ok with screwing into the tree and he doesn’t leave it to be grown around.
I can’t figure out why Americans would trust a safety harness sewed by people making three dollars a day but, think it’s safe versus a steel bolt. His only issue is making sure his lanyard does come out of the eye bolt.
Better than leaving a strap or rope for squirrels to eat.
AI says - The shear strength of a 1/2 inch steel eye bolt at the thread root is 940 lbs.
I would not trust that at all. First, how long is the total length of the eye bolt. It could be 4" or it could be 12". It is not threaded into the tree all the way. different materials have different shear strengths. Too many unknowns for me.
You could go with a larger I bolt and I do like the idea of a quick click and your secure.
I just read the specs for a 4 inch eye lag screw at my local hardware store. Its working load rating is 175 lbs. Take into account the added force from catching a fall (much higher than a persons weight) and that it is not fully screwed in so there is a lever action. No way I'm going to rely on it.
Use a life line with prussic knot. That’s a no brainer.
I admit that I have hunted in tree stands for nearly 40 years without wearing any type of safety device. NOT SMART!! Last year on my first sit I discovered that I have a balance issue, been to a neuromuscular specialist to try to figure it out, so I now use a life line and a harness and I feel much more secure. I can appreciate what this guy is doing to try some measure of safety, I wouldn’t trust the bolt myself.
Matt. I don’t know what I don’t know. But, it’s my guess that a thousand people a day would die on porch swings if a that eye bolt wasn’t adequate.
Put that where ever you’d like. Maybe in the same vault you store all the other info concerning common sense. Might serve you one day if you’d ever open it instead of trying to be a wise guy from the couch.
“But, it’s my guess that a thousand people a day would die on porch swings if a that eye bolt wasn’t adequate.”
We’ll give you a Mulligan. Read the chart and guess again.
Seems like more work than wrapping a strap around the trunk. Might be illegal in some places, and won't make friends of the tree's owners.
GG is right very different scenario. Do not forget static weight vs. a short fall then engaging are very different. Even a 6" drop before weight hits eye bolt is significantly different then just putting weight on.
I think if that hunter fell 2 feet before belt engaged, and belt was not stretchy there is a really good chance at it breaking.
I also do not like threads in tree, what if you unlucky and hit a dead spot? True you can feel it going in but maybe it is still not 100%.
I had a scenario with a huge tree I considered that same idea (od close) briefly. I opted to loop a tow strap around the tree that I left there for a few weeks. I then hooked onto that strap.
The shoulder bolt that GG posted is not the same category as the one the dumbass in the trees is using. A solid eye bolt would be much safer than one that is essentially just folded over to make the eye. I've had to weld them together for specific jobs so they don't open up under a load. They will open up. He should at least rotate it another 180° to get the open end on top. Or just use a choker strap like a normal person.
I’m aware of the side loading. I’m also the one out of everyone on this thread that actually climbs. Do you. I’ll do me.
The eye bolt shown in the tree is a completely different animal than the shouldered eye bolt in GG's chart. Not even comparable. I've used and abused (some beyond capability) lifting eyes for decades. Also, shear strength and tensile strength are two completely different measurements, so don't confuse those two or their application.
If that hunter falls asleep and tilts forward, the eye will likely hold him. If he falls off the side and exerts a dead weight pull on the eye, it will likely bend then break off at the threads (weakest point). I can't tell from the pic if the eye loop is welded closed, but probably not and if not, it may also spread apart there and let the carabinier slip through. I'd also bet that the hunter just picked that eye up at Walmart, so very suspect metallurgical specs.
He could greatly improve the situation by putting a large, thick washer behind the eye and screwing it in tight against the tree and if the eye is not welded, then face the open end up. Three or four inches would maximize the hold. But that eye is too small a diameter to even consider for a dead weight drop of of two hundred pounds, especially with that much shank exposed.
We've been using stainless steel eye bolts for years. When my buddy first suggested it, I was a bit apprehensive, so we tested them at home. In our test, we dropped a weight close to 400 lbs from a height of 6 feet. We repeated the drop test about a dozen times, and the eye bolt held up great. Before testing, I checked the angle of the eye bolt, and afterward, it was unchanged. However, the webbing we used showed some fraying where it was stitched.
"Use a life line with prussic knot. That’s a no brainer." Good climbing rope (not general hardware store stuff), climbing grade carabiners, etc. is built for that, and marked with its capacity (in N or #). No metal no damage to the tree. No noise. Spend the money on a good system.
The 5,000 # plus requirement for fall protection is due to the dynamic forces exerted during a fall. The anchor is only as good as metallurgy behind it, health of tree and the strength of that cellulose material.
I'd put that up there with a really dumb thing to do, not likely most bowhunters would not research the ANSI/AMSE or buy SAE grade stuff anyway. Also, the wrong standard quoted. ANSI/ASSP Z 359 is the fall protection code.
Your life is just too damn important.
Before I worked in automation and hi-speed assembly, I spent 13 years working for a large crane and hoist manufacturer. Designing cranes, hoists, custom lifting devices. That being said, there is no way in God's green earth I would use that for fall protection. I've tested hooks, eyebolts, shackles, etc upwards of 120,000lbs. Fully understand dynamic loading, impact, repeated impact, fatigue testing to failure (at loads waaaay below yield)... The resident lifitng and overhead load experts may trust it... I sure as phuc wouldn't.
Why could something similar to a screw in tree step not be designed for this purpose?
Because it’s not needed. There are excellent portable easier To use connection systems out there
It's better than nothing. I doubt we are analyzing the force correctly (nor do I profess to know how to). If adjusted properly, the strap should allow you to only drop a foot. There appears to be one of those bungee type straps that should absorb some of the shock. Would I trust it? Probably not now. But, I've survived a horrendous tree stand fall caused by a strap failure and now consistently use lifelines.
Not me, not ever. Sooo much easier to loop the tree with a properly rated line. In my career as a mechanic I've broken too many bolts of large diameter with nothing longer than a foot long wrench. God only knows the quality of the maker and material.
“ The eye bolt shown in the tree is a completely different animal than the shouldered eye bolt in GG's chart. Not even comparable”
Yes sir indeed. Details are inportant.
Bou if going by 'not needed' 90% of what hunters buy should not even be talked about.
What an asshat. Too proud to admit you don’t know everything.
There’s that Christian love we all know.
GG may not know everything, but I’m guessing when it comes to overhead lifting, I DO know heckuva lot more than you “asshats” advocating the use of an item not certified for overhead, not certified for human restraint. But by all means…tempt Darwin.
I think what is rubbing WV wrong is that GG is one of bowsites biggest know it alls and rubs many the wrong way.
Don't use it. It will bend before it break. If it turns is one reason it makes it 100% unsafe.
Can’t breed the stupid out of some hunters.
No, no, and nope. Fall restrained devices are designed for its purpose. An eye bolt is just lazy, not proven and is ripe with a margin of error.
Lifelines that are made for the purpose of arresting tree stand falls cost $25-40 depending where you buy them. If use properly, with a harness, you are protected from the ground up, and back down. This is not complicated, or expensive.
Exactly. Use the right stuff for the take at hand and the right stuff is handy and cheap. No reinventing the wheel needed here
I'm wondering how many times our resident expert climber has fixed his safety rope to a tree anchor with a hardware store eye lag before climbing. I'm betting some number lower than 1.
I'm by no means suggesting you do this with any eyebolt you find it Home Depot. But if you find an eyebolt that's rated for the job, I think it's far from a terrible idea idea. We've been using screw and steps to climb trees for years. A rope around the tree works good most of the time, but there's times the trees is big and it's hard to get around, there's limbs in the way of the perfect placement, or sometimes it doesn't stay where you put it. Seen a whole lot more stupid things that bowhunters use.
A 200lb man falling three feet generates about 885 joules or 650 ft-lbs of impact force. By all means use that HD, Lowes or Ace Chinese made eyebolt. **eyeroll**
I by no means am suggesting use a Lowe’s cheapo. I wouldn’t use one regardless of where it’s bought for a safety system. Because there’s much better options.
However, The question wasn’t if it was a great idea. If it worked better than other options. Etc…. I read where the OP asked if it would hold him. I’ve hung too many industrial gas heaters that weigh way more than that fellow to say anything but yes. Want to know what the back up was on them in case the hanging chain breaks? A bigger chain or steel cable through eye bolts.
Reading comprehension. It’s a failing subject. Especially on the internet where people tell you what they think versus what they know.
"Reading comprehension. It’s a failing subject. Especially on the internet where people tell you what they think versus what they know."
Pot, meet kettle. I don't think.... I know. And just cuz you hung some heater in a WV hillbilly rig, doesn't mean it was safe. You got away with it cuz you encroached into the safety or design factor. Instead of 5:1, maybe it was 3:1 or 2:1. I spent over a decade designing custom hoists, cranes, and specialized lifting devices for the likes of Boeing, Lockheed, Rockwell and many others. Literally hundreds of hours breaking sh!t (up to 120,000lbs) in a lab.
You "think" you know. But you don't. OTOH, I actually do. Not bragging...just fact. Cuz 737 wing spar sections (amongst other things) depended on it.
I wish we knew each other well enough to give you the business about Boeing’s more recent woes…
Maybe they need you to come back???
I guess it was a Grumman wing that failed my BIL at 500kts 150 feet above the Columbia River and took a hunk out of his tail section…..
That was an exciting day…. Not usual to lose half a wing and still land the plane…..
Corax, I thought about that but didn't want to go there.. thank you.
I will say one thing for sure, I’m not the engineer who hillbilly soec’ed the plans. I’m just the hillbilly hanging them. They were all professionally designed and approved. By a professional engineer.
Also, I love it when you throw wise comments about WV into your attempted insults. It reflects the high esteem you put on yourself vs folks who didn’t spend a career designing 5:1 ratios. lol
You ever come through WV, look me up. You might find out we wear shoes too.
Yes, reading comprehension is short on your list.
The internet is so much fun. Wherelse can you have this much fun citing credentials on screws
When bowbender puffs out his man boobs, things get serious 5 x faster
This just doesn't look as safe as it could be. I still would feel very secure with my bowline knot around that tree trunk and a Prussic line to me.
I’m picturing that thing bent wide open, pointing toward the ground where someone is laying. Definitely not OSHA compliant where I work.
A better alternative in my opinion, is I hunt some big cottonwoods and my regular fall line won’t reach around so I buy atv tow lines from the farm store they are rated for around 10k lbs I get them 12’ long and leave them in the tree if I know I’m gonna frequent it for a week or 2 of hunting they have a braided eye on 1 end and a forged snap hook on the other and choke around the tree perfect depending on how high you want to set it up, safer alternative IMO
"The eye bolt will hold him. All day long, 7 days a week. Jump off, ease off, slip off, etc…." The chart that grey Ghost posted are not for shock loading. they are for a forged eyebolt, not the type shown a forged eyebolt is rated for overhead lifting, the type shown in the image is not. If you were to "jump off" where you have slack and sudden arrest, the rated values decrease substantially. I would use a forged eyebolt if I could through bolt it to something and hang it with the threads vertical to the ground with the shoulder fully engaged in the bolted to surface.
Corax,
"I wish we knew each other well enough to give you the business about Boeing’s more recent woes…"
That's never stopped you from bloviating before. Please, by all means enthrall me with what I don't already know. Well aware of Boeings recent issues. The work I did was late 80's early 90's, but I'm sure the principles of physics, statics, dynamics, loading, impact and such has changed. I'd appreciate it if you 'splain it to me.
Bou,
I know exactly what you mean. It would be like asking you for info on a mountain lion hunt.
WV,
I love West Virginia, respect it's folks and have enjoyed every day I spent there hunting. It's just you I don't care for or respect. Hope that clears up any confusion you have.
Bow bender, your like the Rodney Dangerfeild of bowsite, you get no respect;0)
I’m not arguing. I’m telling you what I’ve done. But neither of you can live with your word not being the gospel. There’s more engineers on this planet than man boobs.
Come on down Tom. We will work it out.
Again....an eyebolt turned into a tree is better than nothing...there are plenty of people at elevation that aren't secured to anything...I know a bunch of them.
WV,
Last time I checked, my word ain't gospel. However physics is. So there's that. Regardless of what you've rigged. Just another Circle Jerk Back slapper that was challenged and got his thong in a bunch.
What's your fascination with man boobs? Latent homo? Still waiting on that Chrsitian love and humility you like to claim...
Trying Hard,
Ya, we read about a bunch of them every year. Alot are obits.
For anyone that thinks using a 307 mild steel lag eye bolt is a good idea. Go screw one in a tree at shoulder blade level, tie off to it and step off your stand. Then report back to us with your findings.
1. Cheap likely imported hardware store I-bolt.
2. Likely not 4” long as the threaded section on a 4” I-bolt around me is only about 2” long and you wouldn’t see threads in the photo.
3. Looks like a 5/16” or 3/8” max I-bolt to me. Light for the application
4. Is turned in 180* (1/2 turn) from what would be optimal to prevent it from opening up.
5. Tree bark looks thick. I-bolt needs to thread into the trunk wood, not just thick bark that can flake off and isn’t structural to start with.
6. I-bolts need to be screwed in snug to tree not cantilevered way out to reduce the bending moment on the bolt shank, especially the threaded zone.
Bottom line for me: picture depicts a very poor installation and choice of hardware. Not an install to which I’d attach. And noisy as well with metal on metal on loose connections.
Damn Kurt the resolution on that picture must come in a lot better in Canada. You've even got x-ray vision that you can see how deep it's in the tree.
John, Comes in well in MT this morning, haha. No way to know but the install certainly could be improved! Kurt
