Don't Take Frontal Shots
Whitetail Deer
A friendly reminder. I learned the hard way years ago. The buck survived the arrow through the armpit, but the next year we saw him, he was limping. The other was a doe that took the arrow to the trachea and bailed off the highest creek bank she could find and inhaled water til she was waterlogged.
That shot can work but with normal archery equipment is not a high percentage opportunity. Maybe crossbows are different, I have no experience with them.
I've never used a frontal shot on a deer, but I did on an elk one time. Stevie Wonder could have followed that short blood trail. The amount of blood was incredible!
It’s not different than any shot. If you miss the mark you’re in for a long track and possibly a lost animal. If you hit the mark it kills them dead.
I’ve had good luck with close frontals on elk and whitetail. And I’m one of the few that won’t hesitate to shoot a whitetail quartered to.
I've helped track a few for other hunters but we never found any of them. They all said the deer moved at the shot. I've come to the conclusion hunters take risky shots in direct percentage to the size of the rack.
So the data says frontal shots aren’t the best and either they work so good you don’t need a tracker or they cause incredible against to an animal that can’t be recovered?
I suspect many people are not very familiar with the anatomy from that angle. Ask yourself, Do you know where the heart is? It’s Hard to get 2 holes in both lungs from the front.
I'm not good enough in the heat of the moment to figure if there is a slight angle or dead on, moving, aware...etc.....and where to aim based on that information. I don't take them anymore. Lost an elk and a deer. Both close shots but just not a good feeling to do that to an animal when it goes wrong and runs off with your arrow sticking out of the front of its chest. No judgment on others taking it but not a green light for me.
Best to be familiar with the anatomy, including the thoracic inlet.
It’s extremely deadly if you put it in the right spot. I won’t take it unless the animal is under 15-20 yds. Disclaimer: I’ve only taken 3 frontal shots on big game. All have died within 75 yds.
With respect to a frontal on a whitetail, I have never taken one because I don't like the angle out of a treestand. That is my only reason I haven't taken that shot,,,, yet.
I have done it twice, all under 20 yards, one elk, one whitetail. Both animals went 50 yards top. Very risky.
I am now disabled, use a crossbow, with alot of power, I won't do it again
I have done it twice, all under 20 yards, one elk, one whitetail. Both animals went 50 yards top. Very risky.
I am now disabled, use a crossbow, with alot of power, I won't do it again
Sure looks like a Kodiak Island Sitka Blacktail buck. Maybe shot when coming into a decoy?
Actually, I rattled him in, Bob. He dropped down into a little swale in front of me, and I drew when he disappeared. He popped up about 15 yds in front of me, quartering to me ever so slightly. My first blacktail. Kodiak is an incredible place!
Thats very cool. I've never rattled one in. I guess it must work though. I've used "thrashing" which is using a branch to imitate a buck polishing his antlers in the alders. That works too.
Any shot not executed well can lead to long tracking and unrecovered animals.
Let me know if I can give you any other pointers on hunting blacktails, Bob. ;-)
I have taken 2 frontal shots on whitetails. 1 from the ground and the deer went 10 yards 1 from a tree stand and it went 30 yards. Deadly shot when executed in the right scenario.
One of the latest Bill Winke videos had him shooting a doe head on from a blind. He recovered it. I thought it was a poor choice for a video. Just encourages others to try it. Gotta get them videos out. My respect for a lot of the youtube bowhunters has dropped down a few notches. As a bowhunter, I want my shots to be as close to sure kill as I can.
I’ve shot a dozen or so deer frontal. I ground hunt a lot. Found every single one of them. The blood trails were unmatched. So, I’ll continue to do so when it’s right.
I will and have taken alot of quartering to shots on deer and antelope sized game never have lost one all died in sight you can break and penetrate deer sized bones without an issue with a decent compound setup
Had a buck follow a doe right under my stand. I was drawn and ready when he stopped and looked up at me. At the shot the doe (who had already made it past me) jumped and trotted up the hill in front of me about 20yds. He watched, then started walking towards her but didn't make more than a few yards before bedding down for good. Never once acted like he was shot and died in a very short amount of time. This was years ago and I haven't needed to take a shot like that since, but I'd do it again if I felt confident in the shot.
Exited by his scrotum. He ran about 40 yards and was plowing dirt the whole time
Nice!!!!!
That’s one thing I’ve noticed too bake. When hit in the front they never really gain their feet. It’s a plow run till their nose just digs in.
Yes, a whitetail has got to be close. Close like 15 yards or closer. And unaware. They are lightning fast and will move every single time if not.
I killed my sheep this year with a frontal shot. 41 yards. He didn't go far.
Its a deadly shot, I've killed a few elk and one moose with frontal shots. I called in a bull moose this year for my buddy and he frontalled it, it was dead in maybe 20 seconds
Back to back frontals with a recurve at a few yards. Mouth grunted them both in, each died within 40 yards.
It was Big Dan's favorite shot! Years ago I killed a whitetail buck from the ground at about 12 yds with a frontal, blood trail Stevie Wonder could find.
What on earth gives you the right to tell anyone what shot to take or not to take?
On the ground, 15 yards, frontal with a little angle, every time. That is deadly, the arrow goes about all the way through taking a lot on its way. A buddy shot a bull elk on a hunt like that and the bull ran 20 yards and did a flip landing dead. Now, from a high tree stand, not a good shot to take, too much meat to get through into the cavity to get the right shot.
12 yard frontal on this Coues buck, he made it 40 yards or so and I've never seen so much blood. Frontal if done correctly is possibly the most lethal shot there is, but it can also go wrong if the shot doesn't go exactly where it is supposed to.
“it can also go wrong if the shot doesn't go exactly where it is supposed to.”
Well, yeah…..
Those of us who were taught never to take that shot are probably all (or mostly) 50+ YO, and the age-old conviction that it’s just too high risk probably has a lot to do with the standards of accuracy prior to the widespread legalization of releases, the advent of higher let-off, and the speeds you guys are getting out of those Contraptions….. Unthinkably small groups (by ancient/Trad standards) just aren’t that hard to produce, especially if you know your range to within just a yard or two.
But it seems like ducking the string is a lot more of A Thing now, and you sure hear a lot of stories of sure shots gone south when twitchy Whitetails are ready to blow up.
May be a whole different proposition with deer that have not been quite as thoroughly educated….
I’ve been offered that shot only once, at a raghorn/fork bull, about 7 yards, and I passed, mostly due to having been taught to wait for the broadside.
Seems like a frontal presentation will proceed in one of 3 ways: the animal will walk right past you and offer a broadside; the animal will come straight in at you and offer a closer opportunity at that same frontal presentation; or you’re busted, and dealing with an animal on a frog’s hair trigger.
My bows aren’t fast enough to overcome that 3rd scenario, so I’ve always figured The Move was to pray for the first. The second option is really the worst, because I can hold at full draw for a bit, but not for days on end. If the animal looks elsewhere for a moment on its way in, I might get away with something.
But with the stored energy of a compound, the accuracy of pins, peep, a mechanical release and a laser rangefinder, and the ability to hold nigh on to forever, it’s a whole different game now than it was 40-50 years ago. I’m not sure that’s a Good Deal, but it’s the Reality.
I’m still thinking to stand with those who will pass, but I’ve taken that shot more than once with a .54 RB…
Nothing wrong with frontal.
Nick getting it done!!!! I love it.
I have shot 3 deer frontal. All were down in less than 40 yards. None of them were from a tree stand.
I don’t mind a quartering too shot either. I have made that shot a handful of times and those deer often gave up the best blood trail I have tracked with the farthest going about 100 yards.
Well this backfired. Lmao
My biggest Whitetail deer (25 yards), my biggest Mule deer (30 yards) and my biggest Elk (8 yards) all frontal, all dead. I'll take it again if things are right. Ed F
I never had the urgency, need or high posibility of frontal shots ever at lower distances. However I think you can apply the same laws to the frontal shots as to string jumpy animals. The bigger the animal, less it will move upon the shot. The bigger the animal, the bigger the kill size. The closer they are - the better the ods. The smaller the animal (like duikers), the better the posibility to penetrate the frontal shoulder if there is a small miss or they jump the string. Know the exact spot where to aim and it should be very efective.
Poco, the problem is that Thornton doesn’t kill much with a bow and had a bad experience many moons ago with a frontal and saw on FB that a tracking dog page also had trouble. I’d wager to guess he’s much better now with a full frontal but he’s afraid to embrace what feels right.
Nick, I think that most bad frontal shots are done by hunters that do not know exactly where to aim. Shoulder and leg bones are though if you don't hit the small spot. With that said, no shot has a 100% kill probability.
Nich, BTW excelent hunt and shots on those Sitka
I was in a drainage trying to sneak up on this guy when he peeked over the edge right above me and a little to the left.
At least 5 (probably more) deer from small does to 200+ lb bucks with frontal shots. Never lost one with coc style heads. Some went into neck and body cavity and others scapula to body cavity. It’s a great shot up close. I’d never take a frontal shot beyond20- 25ish yards though.
My favorite shot with the rifle.
a still shot from BB's Video
a still shot from BB's Video
Coached on the frontal shot by the Master himself, Bowsite Hall of Famer BB aka Bugling Bill. I took numerous animal with frontal shot since that lesson. no loses all died within sight.
Thanks Thornton for bringing this up and getting the word out about another shot option.
did you notice the white fletch arrow mid flight?
did you notice the white fletch arrow mid flight?
I did not notice until you pointed it out! Cool!!
Very cool picture. Did the arrow hit the neck?
the arrow dropped into the white triangle in front of the shoulder and took out the thoracic bundle above the heart. A term I use for the arteries and veins going into and coming out of the heart.
the thoracic cavity is a space in the chest that contains organs, blood vessels, nerves and other important body structures. The five organs in your thoracic cavity are your heart, lungs, esophagus, trachea and thymus.
thus one of the most devastating lethal shots available!
I figured this would bring out the smart asses. In retrospect, if I had an 800lb bull Elk staring at me at 25 yards, I'd certainly skewer him from the front. And, if I hunted those stupid blacktails from the ground like I did for a week in Alaska, I'd not have a problem with a frontal, especially all the ones I walked or sneaked right up to that acted like they'd never seen a human. As I indicated by my original post, a professional tracker from KS stated that out of all they'd tracked, only one had been found. Presumably all shot from elevated deer stands, which completely adds a different factor to almost every scenario you Western hunters have presented.
Huntcell- there is absolutely nothing you can tell me about anatomy I don't know. I took an entire year of A&P in college, I've worked ER/Trauma for 18 years and killed big game for my 30th year. The purpose of the thread has nothing to do with the lethality of the frontal shot, but rather what happens if you're just a few inches off in any direction on a deer.
I was explaining my shot, I would never dream of telling you anything.
This thread has caused me to rethink something that happened to me many years ago in Oregon. I made a rather long shot on a mule deer doe that slashed her throat and she went down at taking her first step. After going to her, I left immediately to get my kill pack at my truck a ways away. Upon returning I passed a truckload of bowhunters on the two track leading to the kill site. At the kill site there was no deer so I figured that they had stolen my deer. I raced after them to their camp. I then wondered how many of them it would take to put me on the ground but I knew how many they would use. After much discussion, we fingered out that the deer had been first shot by a teenage member of the group at quite a distance from where I shot her. His arrow was hidden entirely within the deer. At the time, I was thinking it was a Texas heart shot but now I am thinking it could have been a frontal head-on shot based on the limited evidence I had at the time. We all agreed it was his deer and I went away happy. At the time, I just didn't think a deer could go that far on a frontal shot like that as I know they can be quick and lethal. I once shot a five point bull elk frontal that went right down with profuse bleeding.
Thornton, got any other bad advice for your fellow bowsiters? Maybe something else based on your mistakes. Also... people don't call trackers for effectively executed shots. Execute a frontal shot correctly (which you obviously didn't) and there's no reason to call a tracker.
My first antelope and my first elk were both taken with frontals. Both, the fastest deaths I'd ever witnessed.
A lot of folks with experience agree that the frontal on whitetails is a poor choice, including the Meateater guys.
I have always been against frontal shots. I’m still not a fan at all when it comes to elk. But yesterday definitely changed my thoughts on them for deer. My girlfriend shot her first buck. An eight point with a pretty good body size. She uses a crossbow, and I had her set up on a Bog Pod sitting on a Double Bull blind chair. Her crosshairs are rock solid. She has done her homework shooting broadheads out to 30 yards.
She first spotted the buck at about 40 yards. it was walking slightly uphill directly toward her focused on a doe that was behind her. She had her sites locked on it the entire way waiting for a broadside shot as I had told her to do so many times. But he just kept coming never turning at all. At 17 yards he stopped and did two head bobs noticing that something wasn’t quite right.
She let it fly and pretty soon I got a text that said I got him. After reading those words, I figured she was standing over top of the deer. But when I got there a few minutes later, she said he ran that way and pointed back in the direction he had come from. She hadn’t yet followed up after the shot. I was happy about that. Jumping wounded deer is never good right. She told me what had happened and I got a bit of a sinking feeling. But when I got to the point of impact, the blood trail was amazing. 2-3 feet wide for 20 yards to where the deer lay dead. He had crashed full speed head on into a tree, snapping off one antler as well as a brow tine. The first thing I did was look for the entry hole. I was very curious to see if it was off to one side. It was dead center. You can see it in the picture. Atta girl!
After tagging the buck and taking a few pictures, I rolled it over to begin dressing it out. As soon as I did, I saw the broadhead poking out between the butt and his family jewels… DEAD center. She basically got a complete pass-through lengthwise. They don’t get much deader than that!
On another note my brother once shot a six point bull elk with a frontal. Buried the arrow all the way up to the fletching. Not a single drop of blood and never saw that bull again.
Less than 5 yards, 45lb long bow,crazy blood trail.
There will always be exceptions....but how can anyone deny the likely hood of something going wrong with a frontal shot is higher than a broadside shot. Common sense.
Risk of something going wrong is relative to shot distance. Which is riskier; 35 yd broadside or 10 yd frontal?
Boom.
It’s pretty simple. Everyone of these threads is a “I told you so…” type deal. Nobody here is uneducated on the anatomy of the animals we pursue. So, what exactly is the purpose of telling someone they are wrong when they know they aren’t.
It’s kinda like the eye bolt thing. Nobody is so dumb to try that without testing it. Just like nobody is taking a 35 yard frontal.
Enjoy. Relish in your buddy’s success’s. Don’t patronize them. If it ain’t for you, don’t do it. If you don’t know and never try, that’s fine too.
“Also... people don't call trackers for effectively executed shots.”
Now you’re reminding me of the last time somebody (who worked for FS/OL) asked a tracker about the outcomes of different shots and concluded that the forward margin of the liver was a much more effective placement than people think and that the forward triangle was no big improvement. He may even have gone so far as to encourage shooting deer farther back… I seem to recall that he did, but I wouldn’t want to accuse anyone of saying something that ridiculous without double-checking the article…
I’m confused, though…. I keep hearing how Wired these whitetails seem to be and how you “have to” hold low to keep them from ducking your arrow because they ain’t gonna be where they were by the time the arrow shows up…. And now there’s a chorus saying that you don’t need to worry about them moving, even when you’re given a much smaller target. Well, do you, or don’t you??
With the bows I shoot, I would have to be at Pine-squirrel shooting distance.
From some of the replies here, sounds like bowhunter education needs to be mandated in order to get an archery hunting license.
My son shot a doe frontal when he was 16. I have complete confidence in his abilities and when the situation suits it's a deadly shot. I'm a supporter of the frontal shot.
Thorny- you found an article that agrees with your opinion on this topic. I can find an article that concludes the earth is flat. Does that make it, or me if i agree, right?
Any other topics you'd like to discuss so you can demonstrate your superior intellect and dominating skills through?
I think many are missing the point. Of course a well executed frontal shot is highly deadly. On deer though, the kill zone is small and facing the hunter, not a high percentage shot. Is it deadly, absolutely yes. And, crossbows are more likely to make it happen than bows, especially traditional bows. Texas heart shots are deadly too.
I am a frontal shot believer. Full frontal or hard quarter to. Both 20ish and in. Its possible to have a frontal where the deer is not looking "at" you. That's a nice bonus.
I've taken one full frontal and that doe came trotting up while making a drive. Stopped 18 yards in front of me. Chest facing me, head/neck turned and looking over its back at its own back trail. That doe never knew what hit her.
Another drive a doe kicked out way to far for a bow shot. But it decided to loop the ridge and head right back into the section where it had just been chased from. Unfortunately for it, the return path brought it to about 8 yards of me, albeit from the opposite direction of the drive. It stood there in total concentration searching for the driver while I was knelt at full draw on it. Hard quarter to, went front of shoulder socket/collar bone area. That one had no idea what happened either.
Time and a place for the frontal. If you know what your doing.
Damn it Thortn!
Now I feel obligated to apologize to about a dozen animals I've killed over the years with frontal shots! I had NO IDEA that they were to be avoided......those animals could have lived for who knows how much longer than the 15 or 20 seconds they lasted after I chose to take that horifically advised shot.
I'll do better next time, uncle thorny......
GG...equal percentage on a target maybe, but a deer is alive and can move a little, so there's that.
I think your all missing the point! The point was for Thorny to try demonstrate he's smarter and knows better than all of us.
Actually he was passing along solid advice which is probably pretty ancient…. And not for lack of confidence in his own marksmanship, I’d wager….
“Time and a place for the frontal. If you know what your doing.”
Just a WAG — if somebody asks you if it’s a good idea, the safe answer is No, and the hazard in advocating for it is that people who DON’T have the skills or judgment will ho for it…. And botch the job.
Scoot, I get the impression you feel insecure. My intention was to relay solid Intel I read from professionals that I have had my own failures with. I absolutely hate to see animals suffer. Enough with your spineless, immature comments. You don't even have the balls to post your face, kill photos, or contribute in a positive manner.
^^really???
Scoot has done numerous hunt recap stories with so many pics of him, his buddy, and his son. I feel like if I bumped into him I would recognize him even though we’ve never met.
It's not my jam. 1.) I'm not confident enough in my shooting to know I can drill the frontal shot perfectly - especially with how jumpy deer can be at the shot. 2.) While I love my setup, I also acknowledge its shortcomings, and while I've put my mechs through off-side shoulders on quartering away shots, I'm not convinced that they won't slide down the ribs if I'm off just a little on a frontal.
So if you have the skills and equipment, cool, but that's not me, so I just dont do it.
I'll admit, when I was learning to bowhunt a bazillion years ago, it was drilled into me to only shoot broadside and quartering away deer - and I suspect that "lesson" also makes me double-take on frontal shots.
I concentrate on Better shots with lower risk of screwing up or having the animal move, etc.
Have taken the shot only 2 times, while on the ground very close range (15 yds or less). It's rare that you have deer that calm who doesn't bust you. 1st time I did it was planning on a 22 yd broadside, then the buck turned and basically walked right up to me as I was at full draw. 2nd time deer was running from something else looking back wards, again already at full draw when it stopped, walked right up to me in the cattails.
Nope, not particularly insecure. Sounds like not only are you the world's best nurse, lawnmower, and hunter, you're also a psychologist who is able to understand a person's inner workings through the internet. Impressive!
I'm not insecure. I'm just not a fan of people who constantly break their arm patting themselves on the back and frequently make posts that very poorly disguise their real intentions, which is to self-promote and jack their ego.
As far me not having the balls to post my face or kills or contribute in a positive manner- see Jethro's post. I've posted at least a couple dozen write ups, including tons of pics of both my face and our kills. I contribute positively to most posts, just not ones in which the OP is simply trying to convince the world just how amazing he is. It's just my natural reaction to the Uncle Rico's of the world...
very glad to see actual killers responding with actual experience. I've had similar results with frontals - that being excellent.
I think guys that know their stuff, butcher their own deer, live and breathe the stuff know when to do it and when not. The "show up and bow hunt" crowd usually makes a mess of whatever shot they're given just like the frontal. Bottom line, if you don't think it's right for you don't take it.
i lost total respect for you Thornton when you stated "you don't have the balls, to post your face, kill photos , or contribute in a positive manner". I have read way more bowhunting threads from Scoot than I have you!
No frontal is too much of a blanket statement.
IME, The different species...and the many different circumstances beforehand dictate whether the shot should be taken.
I’ve taken 3 bulls and one WT buck with frontal. All excellent results and none went far. All had a few things in common, I was very comfortable with shot, they were close and all from ground. I wouldn’t take a frontal deer from a stand and the distance I’m good with is a little less than elk. I’ve seen one go bad from a friend of a friend who needed tracking help. It was a steep angle from a stand on a doe, and she was looking up. When he released her head went down and he cought her in nose down through throat. I won’t take that one, other than that ….deadly quick kills!!
“ It was a steep angle from a stand on a doe, and she was looking up.”
So you’re saying that they don’t go well when you’ve been busted and the deer’s looking straight at you, offering an extremely small, easily obstructed target???
Shocking.
Please don’t put words in my mouth to prove whatever point it is your trying to make through me! What I said was I wouldn’t take a treestand frontal because for me the angles don’t work well. That person made an inexperienced mistake because I assume he was busted drawing . My 43 yrs experience on deer would have told me to hold and wait. This was 25 years ago also, equipment wasn’t what it is now. But in that single situation, no he shouldn’t have shot. On the ground under 15yds, I don’t care if they are looking right at me. I’m already at full draw aiming and the arrow is stuck in his hip or through before he can flinch! There are always limits and decisions to be made in the heat of the moment. The deer I shot on the ground was at 6 yds. He was coming through thick cedars and I knew he was going to see me when he cleared. I was at full draw and as soon as his chest cleared and was open my arrow was gone. He did acknowledge my presence because I saw it in his body language, it was too late. And he wasn’t walking at a fast pace and I was extremely comfortable with that shot. I would not think twice about doing it again unless experience told me something wasn’t right with the situation!
Excellent retort, Bowaddict!
midwest X2
That’s an excellent post Bowaddict.
I thought the same thing. Excellent post by Bowaddict. Complete awareness of how the shot scenario is unfolding and what a shooter can do with that scenario. Experience and knowing what you’re doing.
Sorry if the attempt at humor fell flat. So much is lost when communicating via pixels…
Bowaddict’s buddy’s shot lays bare why/when a frontal is a Bad Idea, and why it’s a mistake to recommend a Frontal shot without adding a long list of caveats…. I thought Adam did a nice job of summarizing…
And FWIW, I was thinking about this thread while I was at the Club this afternoon. This shot is pretty close to Frontal, and it came out pretty good from 28 big paces (on the ground), but I take a crapload of shots at foam that I’d never consider on anything with a pulse….
Gorgeous buck. Big Whitetails don’t speak to me like a nice mulie…
Thorton, maybe you should practice shooting more often.
Beav- I don't care who you respect. It affects me none. What I do respect are the guys that admit it may not be the best option, especially on whitetails from a stand as the article and data provided were intended for.
KHNC- I live on my farm and I probably shoot more than ten of you combined, from longbow, to long range precision rifles, to competitive sporting clays. You're a hypocrite narcissist if you claim to have never taken a bad shot and crippled an animal, especially as a bowhunter. The two instances I provided happened 20 years ago, with dated equipment that pales in comparison to the accuracy of what you are shooting today.
I've got an open question on one of the most active tracker sites on social media. Feel free to follow along as I will post unbiased results. The way some of you talk, you must be a world champion archer like Joe Thornton was.
Just keep listening folks, there ain't nuthin Thortin don't know.
Since the original question in Thorton’s picture was about collecting data on the results of that shot. The data will be flawed since there is no need to call a tracker if the shot was executed correctly.
I don't see how asking a tracker has any relevance. They only know about the failed shots. There could be 999 successful frontals for every 1 that a tracker is called for.
Thornton you didn’t stick to the data. You made a statement that was way off base and I pointed it out. Everything you say is going to affect me! Hope I can sleep tonight.
No idea what you're talking about Beav, and I don't care.
Here's data provided by the trackers with occasional comments by hunters. Chris Cavendar is also a tracker.
I’ve learned so much from this thread. Thx
Haha Charlie! It has been eye opening, hasn't it?!?
So the main takeaway from reading the tracking page posts is that when placed correctly a frontal shot is very lethal and they don't go far. If not placed well they tend to survive with no problems.
I found a link from 11 years ago, many who no longer post on here. The discussion was cordial and informative, with scenarios from honest experiences, not a bunch of guys that have self absorbed into self proclaimed archery perfection.
The worst thing about a well executed frontal, they go like a bat out of hell…….for 40-60yds:) Best, easiest blood trails I’ve had! But I’ve only had to track 1 due to thick cover, it made it almost 100yds. And I’m 100%, so it must be the best shot to take all the time according to my scientific study:):) This has been beaten to death,. If your comfortable with it and it’s close, take the shot it’s deadly from the ground!!!!
Reality Check: The tracking service recovery rate on lost, wounded animals is NOT the pertinent statistic; what matters is the recovery rate on animals shot at/from this angle.
About all you can ”prove” by asking tracking services about this is that if you screw up this shot, you’re most likely wasting your money bringing in a dog.
Thornton, this data you keep posting means nothing. Too many unknowns. How proficient are these people with a bow? What was the distance of the shot? What was the demeanor of the animal at the time of the shot? For all anyone knows, these people that you keep propping up to support your argument couldn’t hit a hay bale at 20 yards, yet still took a 30-40 yard shot from an elevated position at a tightly wound animal that had them pegged.
The thoracic opening on a whitetail deer is about half the size as that of an elk (maybe a bit bigger depending on the specific animal). I’ve never taken that shot on a deer mostly because I’ve never had the opportunity but I have on elk and it’s devastating. Like Bake said, ANY shot poorly executed will result in lost animals. I’m a fan of frontals in the right conditions. This bull leaked buckets of blood.
Grey Ghost- you're a bored guy with no life.
Advisories against a practice are not based on successes. From the wing struts I had to replace on my Piper because the FAA said they "might" be prone to corrosion (there were a few instances of them breaking out of thousands manufactured) to us medical professionals advising against illicit fentanyl use.
To put this as simply as I can for you: advisories are heavily based on failures, not how many survived even though the practice was done.
I took a frontal shot on a deer and it just look like an instant waterfall of blood. made it some 15 feet and went down. Didn't wait any time at all. Just walk up to it as it lay down, and stayed with it til it's last breath. The arrow went clean thru and exited just touching the last rib before falling a couple of feet past the deer. Shot it with my 70# recurve from some 12 yd away. Heart and lung shot.
Exactly where is the right spot on a frontal shot, also what about a deer with it's head down feeding?
Pretty sure you’re trolling, but I’ll play….
First, Be Advised that the consensus is that a deer with its head down is pre-loaded to duck the arrow with maximum effect. And of course, if a deer does react trying to escape something square in front of it, it is going to duck to one side or the other.
So in a square-on presentation, the “exactly right” spot (dead-center, half-way between spine and brisket) would be covered by the cervical spine. All you have to do is guess right as to where that spot will be by the time your arrow gets there.
Any procedure depends heavily on the skill and knowledge of the person doing the procedure. Wing struts rusting is nothing like this, and not a good metaphor. As an expert in the medical field if you want to move to the medical field for an example I imagine you can likely come up with some surgeries that are highly suggested with one surgeon that are not at all suggested with a qualified doctor of even different surgeon with vastly different success ratios. Even though a MD has some training in the area, and other surgeons also have training in the area.
Just thing of the arrow entering the proper place on the front of the deer as a type of surgery ;)
What's right for one person is not necessarily right for another. Is it the first shot I would suggest a new bowhunter ever take? Heck no. As someone that's killed a whack load of animals and butchered them all, and also learned from many good and bad hits I have no qualms taking it when the time is right. Most people likely know if taking a frontal is right for them if they take the time to think about it. Stop trying to apply your own personal rules to everyone else. It's an incredibly off-putting and annoyingly arrogant trait for people to do.
