Designing a property
Whitetail Deer
Hypothetically speaking here. You have piece of ground that is bare. How would you design it for hunting purposes? The ground would be fairly flat, no hills. I’m just speaking mainly how would you have trees planted, food plots, etc? I’ve always imagined a property with a Y or X shaped tree groves that naturally funnel from a larger ag field down to a small secluded piece with a food plot. Or a piece that has some shelter belts with cedars that’s stretch out a few hundred acres but where they meet there’s some hardwoods that deer would tend to browse through. What’s your thoughts or dreams. Even toss in an aerial picture of some ground or locations you have that produced a good killing ambush setup. Thanks guys
If you go to michigan sportsman forums, look for posts by bishs. He did exactly what you’re talking about with a 40(I think) acre parcel in Michigan. Was bare farmland and he made it a deer paradise. Fascinating reading. I wish my dirt in MI was like his as I can apparently grow only cedars and grass. It’s a fun project for sure.
Craig
Document subtle ridges and high spots. Plan on the vast majority of the ground being sanctuary with NO human intrusion, and plan no impact entrance/exit routes to stand sights. The rest as far as food, trees, etc is irrelevant if you don’t address the above first
I guess at some point, you have to decide just how easy you want your hunting to be…. You could just about funnel ’em into a squeeze chute if you really wanted to. Just run a big X of deer fence across the property with a 25 yard gap in the middle.
Kind of a slippery slope.
Huge question first and foremost is what is around the property? Are deer getting pounded on the boundaries? Is there protected ground beside you on one side that you can essentially use as bedding that won't get hunted? Have to know what's on all 4 sides before you can plan what's in the middle.
Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions Corax. I'm sure the OP is appreciative of your layout and design. A guy might just want to help wildlife with habitat improvements and at the same time make his hunting opportunities better than before. I guess at some point, you have to decide just how much of an ass a guy wants to be. Might as well go all in. It's kind a slippery slope though.
If you started with a bare field not tree ect. How long do you think minimum it would take to have something?
John, it depends. Trees aren't absolutely necessary. I guy could start cover with planting Egyptian Wheat or other tall sorghums. Then add trees when possible. Most local conservation offices have pull-behind tree planters that can be rented or often loaned out. 30yrs ago I helped a conservation manager plant thousands and thousands of trees. Those properties had very quick changes in how wildlife used them (positives as defined by the goals). Another change that provides quick improvements is water of some sort.
Pretty broad topic with many different answers depending on where, what, and how big the property is. First off is protecting your investment. Define those property lines now through survey if necessary as well as, discussion with your neighbors. Put in fence posts to mark them or paint trees on the property line. The longer you postpone it, the more the neighbor may think that the land he has been using or hunting is his. Second would be screening of the property from the roadways and of your accesses. Construction of trails and establishment of foodplots would likely be 3rd. Add water if there isn't. Develop a work list on excel and sort it by priority and season. Include air photos, maps, etc in a folder on your computer. Prioritize equipment purchases.
From the OP:
“I’ve always imagined a property with a Y or X shaped tree groves that naturally funnel from a larger ag field down to a small secluded piece with a food plot….”
“Even toss in an aerial picture of some ground or locations you have that produced a good killing ambush setup.”
That’s not a Comprehensive Habitat Enhancement.
I don’t think the OP wants a completely manufactured kill-box, but I don’t pretend to know exactly what he DOES want.
If I had a big enough parcel to do anything more than just create a funnel from one side of the property to the other (connecting the best deer assets from each neighbor to all of the others), I’d figure out the low spot(s) and use wind-breaks and snow fencing to collect the neighbors’ fugitive topsoil where I wanted/needed it, and to park snow where it could melt and flow into a fish/duckpond, with a nice patch of cattails and other wetland vegetation to clean up the water before it got to the pond. And I would put in a large patch of the thickest, nastiest cover that deer (and other wildlife) could stand to use so that there’d be some Inviolable Refuge that couldn’t be hunted even if I wanted to. Nice mix of browseable shrubs, ground-level understory, deciduous and evergreen, for cold weather. Make it work for bunnies, squirrels, game-birds, songbirds…
Because (JMO) there’s a lot more to hunt than deer, and a lot more to deer hunting than shooting them. And (to be honest) I can’t imagine investing in a piece of property and turning it into Work for 11 months out of the year, when I could enjoy it pretty much year-round by turning it into one big Science Project trying to restore a slice of Native habitat to help songbirds, game-birds, pollinators, small game, non-game…. Whatever Belongs There and can be grown without irrigation, fertilizer, pesticides or (and perhaps this would be a longer-term deal) herbicides. After all, I DO plan on eating the fish and wildlife that lives on this ground, and “Free-Range, ORGANIC” are the three most powerful words in the English language when it comes to an unassailable reason for being a Hunter…
And that’s Just Me. I get that not everyone shares my priorities and preferences, and I’m OK with that. But you get down to it, and at some point, creating a kill-box funnel from 10-foot deer-proof fencing (rather than a strip of brush and trees X yards across) is just Nuance.
Not-for-nothing, but for a reasonably competent compound guy with a laser, a strip 50 yards across is a fish-barrel. Great way to fill the freezer, but I’d rather use a rifle to fill the freezer and go for a hike.
Corax, if that’s all you got for an answer to a legitimate question, maybe just skip the thread entirely. But then, that wouldn't be just you, would it ?
Dakota, I’m not much help with something I cant see, hell, I didn’t even use my own property as well as it could have been used. All I know is I would not want “a few hundred acres of cedar trees”. Might as well be pavement under them and unless they have limbs growing at ground level, they ain’t that good as a thermal barrier. A narrow strip of them would be good and that might have been what you meant. If I had a clean slate, was young enough, had enough money, and enough land to hold deer, then I would have strips of hardwoods that bear mast, lots of native grasses that had some height, and the hardwood strips would lead to lots of small food plots. A big plot or two where deer could get plenty of nutrition would be great, but they will mostly be used at night. Small plots with a variety of cultivars are more likely to be used by mature bucks. Water, even small ponds, would be great too, almost a necessity. Laying all that out to take advantage of the normal wind direction would factor in also. Ingress and egress without being detected is a necessity. That’s a lot, but that’s my thoughts.
I appreciate all the feedback. So for some background we have some family land that is being used for cattle and crops in Sodak. The home place has your typical farmstead with trees planted around. We were visiting recently and they are going to be putting in some more tree groves in a couple other spots. It had me day dreaming and how I would set up tree groves, what trees, corners where groves intersect, food plots etc. I was more or less looking for some ideas at what everyone’s seen. I would agree that your typical shelter belt planted with cedars isn’t the most beneficial. I think what’s planned is 5 rows of trees with 2 outside being cedar, some deciduous in the middle 3, and another single line of cedars planted. One spot we have has traditionally been a passing through spot, ag fields on a couple sides, with some public crp on the other. The plan is for a small grove to be planted with hopes of giving a place for a deer to stop. Some of the other spots are just long groves of trees being planted. There’s water and tanks around. I’ve always been thinking the thoughts of “if you build it they will come.” Traditionally we’ve never had deer stay on our place year round besides your occasional doe or two. This is typical eastern South Dakota where once the crops come off the deer seek cover in the trees and then after rifle season they hunker down and migrate somewhere to winter elsewhere. Not sure if all this helps either. Thanks again
Did Pat institute a new Rule prohibiting discourse on the question of what HUNTING means?
If guys want to spend money on a Live Target shooting gallery, it’s their money, but if all you want is a good way to shoot fish inna barrel, you may as well use a rifle, no?? Hell, why not replace your trail-cams with Claymores??
Exaggerating to make the point, OBVIOUSLY, as I have been all along, but we all have our limits as to what we’re willing to do in order to put an animal on the ground, or perhaps on the wall. Good to consider what those limits ARE, from time to time.
IMHO
Corax, I do believe in the thread Pat posted about him being done included something about people being banned for attacking other members for the way they hunt. Cogitate on that for a minute and then please post about your superior ethics and morality and why we give a shit. Thank you very much !
Go back and read your first post corax; purely judgmental with zero input to the op's question. Now your bringing Pat's new rule up??? Maybe you should look in the mirror.
To the OP... I sincerely hope you can make some improvements to your place and enjoy the rewards that path has to offer. If you would like some bounce some ideas around feel free to message me. This thread turn to crap so I'm jumping ship.
“It’s not a “condemnation” to suggest asking yourself how easy you really want to make your “hunting” before you invest a lot of capital in manipulating a property for the express purpose of making it easier to guarantee a shot.
But some people hunt with a bow because the seasons are longer/less pressured/more tags/timed more for the rut and some people bowhunt because it’s Harder.
There’s no shortage of compound shooters here who will gleefully rip on a “traditional” bowhunter for working over a feeder/bait pile/food plot, and no lack of people who will argue that there’s a real difference between a for-profit crop field and a food plot. So how is it such Bad Behavior to note that creating a kill box is creating a kill box?
Honestly, I have had access to a quite substantial (160 acres) piece of Private with a very substantial deer population on it, and I spent most of my energy there AVOIDING the best funnels on the property because frankly, if all that’s required to fill a tag is to hang a stand in a no-brainer funnel and sit on your duff long enough for a big one to come by….. it gets pretty frickin’ boring. And the idea that you can “grow” trophies on even 160 acres (even if you have direct control of it) is pretty much a Fantasy. Rutting bucks will wander in search of does, and when they do, they die.
Maybe there’s money to be made by turning featureless properties into high-productivity kill-boxes, so that when you grow tired of it, you can flip it and go bigger next time, but again…. JMO, there’s more to hunting than deer, and more to deer hunting than filling tags.
If you take that observation as a personal affront, that’s a You Problem, isn’t it??
Have it your way Einstein, you need to be on Pat’s list, every time you post it’s just to highlight your perceived superiority. I’m with SD.
DakotaArcher--some states have programs to help landowners create wildlife habitat, and South Dakota appears to be one of them. See the link. I believe that many times it's a free service.
Some states also have state nurseries where you can buy all kinds of mast-producing and other trees/plants, possibly at lower costs than commercial nurseries (though they may not have a picture of a big buck on the tag...lol).
Good luck on your journey, and have fun with it.
“ Good luck on your journey, and have fun with it.”
And that’s the point. I’m just suggesting that it’s worth thinking about the destination along the way…. Where do you REALLY want to end up?
Drycreek’s worried about how “superior” I think I am; I’m more concerned about how Mortal I am.
I’m at an age where there are guys my age (and younger) dropping dead every damn day. And if I were in a position to turn a piece of property into whatever I wanted it to be, I’d be a lot more concerned with shaping it to fill my sons’ memory banks with good times spent together — memories they’ll want to hang onto and tell stories about long after I’m gone — rather than worrying about filling a wall with “trophies” which my wife & sons will eventually have figure out how to unload.
Makes me wonder how many Hunting Widows have wanted to have a massive bonfire to empty their homes of all of the Dead Stuff…. LOL
I'd start with a few hundred acres of gently rolling wooded property. A creek or small pond. Clear for a nice meadow along the creak. Plant some apple and pear trees. Thin out some of the thick timber. No Amish neighbors.
I'm not sure if the particulars ....but know people where I live that have gone to lectures/classes that involved property management to retain wildlife...I believe there were modest fees for these classes..from what I heard these classes were hosted by former wildlife management people.
I’ll bet classes are a lot cheaper than mistakes ;)
As someone mentioned further up the thread there is no way to provide any real useful information without knowing quite a bit more about the property and what's around it.
OooFA! Every thread now has to include a few agitators and some snarky comments I guess.
There has been some really good advice offered here, and some other stuff too.
I'd suggest that you think about what you like to do in addition to shoot deer. Do you like to small game hunt, or turkeys? To you want a place to fish perhaps? mountain biking, 4-wheeling? Birdwatching? Grow and pick apples or some other fruit or nuts?
Anyway, try to have fun with the Property Improvement projects as well as the couple of week in the fall that you'll be hunting. The more enjoyment you get out of the place year round, the better.
NDA, the National Deer Assoc, formerly known as QDMA offers classes, in person and online on just this subject. Depending on how much time, dedication and money you care to invest: You can get deep into the weeds (pun intended) or just scratch the surface.
One more often overlooked thing to think about is Fawning Cover, which can be a bit different that security cover, but just as important.
Have fun with it, owning your own place is special, and can be multi generationally rewarding!
I had one 1/2 acre food plot on 67 acres when i bought my farm in SC. Now I have 3 the same size, along with a few sections of roads, fall planted, that i dont use for hunting access. I also have a 20 acre sanctuary section along the front creek that i have cut some trees for additional cover. Planning to expand one plot to 3 acres next month, after season is over. Used a Forestry mulcher 2 years ago to clear the area. Should be decayed enough by now to clear and plant. Good luck on your setup.
Sorry I asked a question that would turn heated. My main thoughts were what can make some good hunting ambush locations. I think some of the areas will have some inside corners with hardwoods, obviously mainly used as bedding. I wish I had a lot of money and could run 160+ acres of just solid woods in eastern sd. Some of you know what that would be like for wildlife.
Don’t be sorry for asking a legitimate question! Clorox Latrine always seems to have to inject his position of superiority into pretty much every thread.
There are a good number of land management guys that offer their services doing pretty much what you’re looking for.
There should be no argument when it comes to owning land and land improvement. All landowners should do it if they can, and it does not have to be only for deer hunting. Being good stewards of the land should not upset other hunters at all. Private landowners are continually attacked on these forums, as if they are entitled. I admire the hard effort put forth by private landowners. They work hard to own the land, and they work hard to maintain and improve the land. Why don't all hunters do this ?
Don't apologize. You asked a simple and valid question... basically "I have land and want to improve it. How do I do that?". Seems to always be some jack wagon that wants to tell you how to live your life instead of simply answering your question. If you can get past those guys there are some really good guys who will help you.
Yesterday morning a kid shot a doe at my dad's place. It was his 2nd deer ever and he had a blast. When dad bought that place it was hilltop tillage ground. Mostly rock. Not a tree on it. Deer used it at night, but never in the day. He had a pond dug, we planted tree rows, and he seeded in switchgrass. I can't even begin to tell you how many kids have fished that pond, shot their first deer, swam, camped, or shot their first limit of doves on that place. It's been amazing! Build it, work on it, love it, and share it! You won't be disappointed.
You mentioned you'd like to plant it all to tree but don't have the funds. We've bought a lot of seedlings from Oklahoma conservation offices. I think you can get most of their trees for around $1 each. If I had 80 acres of bank slate I'd very much consider dropping a grand to cover it in mast producing trees such as Sawtooths. That'd be cheaper than a new bow. I don't know if Oklahoma conservation sells anything that'd grow up your way but you could research neighboring states and find one that does.
I’d look to see how a guy could get early successional type growth started on the ground in that location you discussing, then design around that.
I asked my father one time after he’d owned his Iowa place for 20 years what was the one thing he’d want more of if he had it to do over (other than more acreage). Keep in mind he had a very diverse property of around 670 acres of different types of woods, ag ground, food plots, lots of NWSG plantings etc. he said “weeds”. He’d spend lots of hours with habitat improvements, food plots, planting native grasses and all that, and acre for acre would see the best deer use in weedy fields and always jump lots of deer when he was mowing thistles. NWSG was great to get the government to pay you to put in, but pretty much a deer desert on his place.
I really think all the hate against landowners is simply jealousy. Never had a guy that was critical of land owners give me a rational explanation about why he wouldn’t want to own his own place to hunt, just excuses why he doesn’t. Owning your own hunting land is life changing.
R
