Well This Is A First
Whitetail Deer
For me it is. Never seen a mule deer and a whitetail locked up
I never like seeing these pics....
Which raises the question....where whitetail and mule deer populations overlap, I assume they'v inbred, and I'd think it wouldn't be a rarity. But you don't hear about a deer equivalent of the "coydog", so maybe I'm way off base?
Olddog, there have been many hybrid deer documented. From what I remember, mostly whitetail bucks breeding muley does, as whitetails are more aggressive than muleys. At least that’s what I remember.
There is also an occasional occurrence where Coues and mule deer cross, but biologists say it isn't as common as hunters think. We recently sent one in for genetic testing and it was confirmed a cross. The reason I felt it likely was a cross, other than the world class score and more typical mule deer antler configuration, was the color of the velvet, which was more tan (like a MD) and not silver grey (like a Coues). Otherwise, the cape, ears, facial coloring, and tail were undoubtedly Coues in appearance.
Are those two dead or alive?
Actually makes some kind of sense that the differences in the architecture might result in the racks being more likely to lock up…. Just another mechanism for keeping the species distinct. Death Penalty for fraternization!
I spent a fair amount of time at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal National Wildlife Refuge. A health population of both whitetails and mule deer are there. Almost never see the whitetails and mule deer together during the rut. They seem to segregate themselves by species. Don’t think I have ever seen any type of rut activity between the two. No fighting, no chasing does. Not saying it never happens there, but if it does it is very infrequent.
It happens. They are sterile so a new "muletail" species won't be taking over any time soon.
Can’t tell by the picture but this is a whitetail and mule deer I found in Nebraska
I was shown a few pics of a mulie/coues hybrid from Arizona that an outfitters client had taken. Same as stickflicker said, it looked like a jumbo coues rack, but you could tell something was “mixed”.
On one trip into Mexico chasing coues, my guide and I watched a 90” or so coues buck chasing a hot mule deer doe around for about an hour before dark. There were no mulie bucks seen that night, and looking at the same group the next morning, the chasing was done, the coues buck was still with those does, and no mulie bucks were seen again. We always figured the act had been completed after dark.
Some of the whitetails we've taken and seen in west river SD I swear have to have some mule deer genetics in them. Big forks, sixes and bucks without brows.
My son and daughter have taken 2 mulies in December, both in velvet, both sterile, and taken a mile apart in 2 consecutive years in Kansas. I didn’t have them genetically tested but I’m pretty confident they were hybrids.
I checked Google and the AI says that the main reason the hybrids don’t procreate is mainly behavioral, but where overlap occurs, up to 14% of the population can be multicultural…. ;)
Link is to a MeatEater interview and doubtless is more detailed …
@KSF - very interesting that those bucks were still in velvet… I get the chromosomal barrier to fertility, but velvet should be hormonal…. And I don’t think I’ve ever heard mention of hormonal issues among hybrids. Maybe we have some mule breeders on the site??
We see them here on occasion. Almost always mule like in most aspects but the tail. And since the tail decides which tag we cut, the rest can be muledeer, but gets tagged as a whitetail. I have personally only seen three in person over many years. And all in areas that have a low density whitetail population.
Agree with Corax that I don't think the late presence of velvet is an indicator of a crossbreed. These two locked bucks, and nearly all the photos of hybrids I've ever seen were hard horned. I think the presence of velvet in winter is more likely due to a testicular injury or deformity.
Testosterone (hormone) is the reason bucks lose velvet. Both bucks had testicles the size of a marble. Makes biological sense to me that they were possibly hybrids. The strange physical characteristic of combining DNA from two separate species is nearly infinite. But like I said, I didn’t test the deer and it could have been a mutation, inbreeding, or maybe hybridization. It wasn’t physical damage to the testes or scrotum as there was no scarring or physical injuries. There were other physical characteristics that also looked whitetail and mulie.
I’m not saying they were hybrids but it is plausible.
My dad shot a buck back in 2017 in NW KS that appeared to be a cross. The buck had a tail that resembled a mule deer and its hide resembled both species.
Cool photo DL, thanks for sharing...
Yeah, first time I ever heard or seen a picture of mulie/whitetail locked together, looks like they battled to the death, they both look dead to me...
That's a very cool pickup Tater, congrats and thanks for sharing...
Yeah drycreek, "there have been many hybrid deer documented. From what I remember, mostly whitetail bucks breeding muley does, as whitetails are more aggressive than muleys. At least that’s what I remember"
Same here Don, where I'd read where the species overlapped, but what I read hybrids were rare and it's usually the more aggressive whitetail bucks breeding mule deer doe, and also heard as molsonarcher said, there are mulie/coues hybrid in Arizona...
Willing to bet as whitetails expand their range into mule deer territory, we'll see more of this...
I researched the mulie/whitetail hybrids years ago, and what I remember some can look more like a mule deer and some may look like a whitetail, and some may hop like a muley yet some may run like a whitetail... I do remember reading if it's a racked buck hybrid it can be determined by the beading pattern at the base of their antlers, but don't remember what the pattern was... Whitetails and muleys have different beading patterns...
And, if I remember right, before DNA, there was a big B&C buck they didn't know what it was and was later determined it was a hybrid by the beading at the bases...
Years ago I saw a picture of a Montana buck that was a hybrid. He was a very silvery mule deer with typical whitetail antlers. The arrival went on to say that they weren’t very smart for a deer species. I have a picture from here in SoCal of a Blacktail and a mule deer fighting.
If you have not read the book by Valerius Geist, Mule Deer Country, I think you should. It sheds light on the deer species. Whitetails, Blacktails and the making of Mule deer. Fascinating reading. Mule deer came from Whitetails and someday Whitetails will probably breed them out of existence, IMO.
If you have not read the book by Valerius Geist, Mule Deer Country, I think you should. It sheds light on the deer species. Whitetails, Blacktails and the making of Mule deer. Fascinating reading. Mule deer came from Whitetails and someday Whitetails will probably breed them out of existence, IMO.
Val Geist is pretty much Da Man…. Wonderful to talk to. He was very accommodating when we had him as a guest speaker for the FAC when I was in grad school in Laramie… Such an interesting guy that I had more than just one question for him ;)
And FWIW, he wasn’t concerned about reintroducing wolves to Jellystone, either; not that I recall, but he has allowed his thinking on Wolves to be shaped by developing situations, which is not as Universal as it should be…
Kinda makes you wonder how many PETAVegans think that whitetail tag allocations should be liberalized in areas which are historically Mule Deer habitat…. You know, to prevent extinction/extirpation of the indigenous species….
So obviously, the right thing to do when you see a Mulie Buck courting a WT doe…. Is to whack the damn doe….
"Olddog, there have been many hybrid deer documented. From what I remember, mostly whitetail bucks breeding muley does, as whitetails are more aggressive than muleys. At least that’s what I remember."
The reason most hybrids are WT buck x MD doe is that WT does are faster and better at running away from the MD bucks..
Not all Hybrids are not sterile. Hybrid bucks are thought to usually be sterile, while hybrid does are thought to typically be fertile.
The best way to determine if the deer is possibly a hybrid is an examination of the tarsal glands, WT are very compact, MD are very long, hybrids are in between....
This deer was killed many years ago in N. CaI. think he might be a little big for a blacktail.
This deer was killed many years ago in N. CaI. think he might be a little big for a blacktail.
I have heard that blacktail and mule deer do sometimes mix in Northern California.
So this was a video and the two were circling while fighting. Ones a mule deer and the other a Blacktail.
From what I remember reading, mule deer evolved from blacktails...
"The reason most hybrids are WT buck x MD doe is that WT does are faster and better at running away from the MD bucks"
Hmmm, hadn't thought of that before, but yeah, that is probably true...
Aside from the antler base beadings, forgot about the difference in back legs glands...
"Metatarsal Glands: The only physical character that can be used to accurately diagnose a hybrid in the field is the metatarsal gland, which is located on the outside of the lower portion of the rear legs. The metatarsal glands on mule deer sit high on the lower leg and are 4 to 6 inches long and always surrounded by brown fur. The whitetail’s metatarsals are below the mid-point of the lower leg, less than 1 inch long, and surrounded by white hairs. A white- tail/mule deer hybrid has metatarsal glands that split the difference in location, appearance and length (between 2 to 4 inches)"
https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/deer-scouting/deer-behavior/hybridization-a-unique-tail-of-whitetails-and-mule-deer
Cool find! If nothing else just for the rarity of it.
If interested in wild hybridization do some studying on fish. Most BOW are relatively closed systems (ponds, lakes, etc). Which means that their fish population territories are overlapped (like where whitetail and muledeer co-exist). A pond may hold several species of sunfish that are all genetically capable of interbreeding, and while it happens it doesn't become dominant in those bodies of water. Walleye and sauger can make babies... channel cats and blues, and striped bass/white bass can too as evidenced by fisheries creating and stocking of sauger and wipers. But they don't do it on their own. Differences in behavior, spawning temps, timing, etc keep them apart. Some cool stuff out there.
That is a good analogy SD...
It might be because the whitetail buck is more aggressive than the mule deer buck, hence, the whitetail buck breeding mule deer does more often than mule deer buck’s breeding whitetail does.
The tarsal glad ID mentioned above is correct. I heard Dan Adler give a speech at Sheep Show and this is what he also discussed.
It also doesn’t help that whitetails have multiple fawns every year and mule deer does usually have a single fawn. They are being rapidly outbred when it comes to their population growth.
Eastern Sierra Mulies have been interbreeding with central valley blacktails for many years. I've gotten one. They are classified as Pacific hybrids.
"It also doesn’t help that whitetails have multiple fawns every year and mule deer does usually have a single fawn. They are being rapidly outbred when it comes to their population growth."
An even greater advantage for whitetails outcompeting Mule Deer through birth rates is that many young of the year Whitetails will become pregnant while this is very rare for Mule deer.
Hybrid WTxMD has actually been studied a fair bit, particularly the actual breeding behavior.
"Aggressive" WT bucks has been mentioned several times. This is not really correct. The reason why WT bucks sire more hybrids than MD bucks is the ability of the WT DOE to evade the MD bucks. WT bucks are more successful in locking down a MD doe than MD bucks are in locking down a WT doe....
