Union Careers
Nontypical
Contributors to this thread:
Mule Power 16-Jan-25
xtroutx 16-Jan-25
craigmcalvey 16-Jan-25
Dale06 16-Jan-25
xtroutx 16-Jan-25
absaroka6 16-Jan-25
RonP 16-Jan-25
Al Dente Laptop 16-Jan-25
spike78 16-Jan-25
Basil 16-Jan-25
absaroka6 16-Jan-25
Beendare 16-Jan-25
btnbuck 16-Jan-25
Basil 16-Jan-25
glenbow 17-Jan-25
Bob Rowlands 17-Jan-25
JohnMC 17-Jan-25
Basil 17-Jan-25
Basil 17-Jan-25
2WildBill 17-Jan-25
Al Dente Laptop 18-Jan-25
glenbow 18-Jan-25
Al Dente Laptop 18-Jan-25
Basil 18-Jan-25
Bowbender 19-Jan-25
drycreek 20-Jan-25
Mint 21-Jan-25
Babysaph 22-Jan-25
Bowbender 22-Jan-25
WV Mountaineer 23-Jan-25
From: Mule Power
16-Jan-25
Just interested in hearing different opinions. I’m a union carpenter in southwest Pennsylvania. I have mixed thoughts on that. It has its pros and cons for sure. The people at the hall always look out for number one and it is not us. It irritates me that the people who do work there are not union members and don’t pay dues. We are the worker bees and without us there is no income. Probably the biggest downside is no work no pay. There are no sick days vacation or paid holidays at all. The upside is a good wage, health insurance, annuity savings and of course a pension. What are your experiences with union work where you live?

From: xtroutx
16-Jan-25
The upside is a good wage, health insurance, annuity savings and of course a pension. I retired from the Chicago carpenters union. What you stated above was exactly why I joined. I was fortunate enough to be a foreman for a company that cherished they're their employees and gave us paid vacation and holidays as a bonus. They always had all the work needed to keep us busy and I never had to deal with the hall. At one time we had over 600 carpenters on the payroll. Nowadays I just get my pension check every month and glad I made the choice I did. Everyone has the stereotype of union workers being lazy and doing nothing which is a bad rap. I now how hard you work. Good luck on your decision.

From: craigmcalvey
16-Jan-25
I’m an RN and have worked at both union and non union facilities. IMO, if you are a good employee, a union membership is a waste of money. The union protects employees who should be fired because they are bad at their jobs. I much prefer the non union setting. Another thing to think about is what do your union dues pay for…in my case, they went to the Michigan Nurses Association which used them for lobbying for exactly zero things I stood for-left wing policies across the board. I have no plans to ever go back to union employment.

Craig

From: Dale06
16-Jan-25
I worked in management for almost 40 years. I was a direct supervisor and later plant manager of more than one union plant. My experience is that unions are good for marginal or worse performers. The union will protect the poor performers. High performing employees are held back by the poor performers as they all are paid essentially the same, in their classification. I think high performing employees are better off non union, “if” they’re working for a good company that “pays for performance and results.” Not all companies do that though.

From: xtroutx
16-Jan-25
I can't comment on all unions just the one I was involved with. I had the authority to hire and fire on the spot. The union had nothing to say about who I could fire as long as it was a legitimate reason. (poor performance, missing work, etc.) If you work for a company that gets there employees from the hall to fill positions than I guess that could be possible. Like I said, over all the years I was in, I never was on a "work list" from the hall. I guess every situation is different. When I was young I would spend money just as fast as I made it, so having a pension what great for me.

From: absaroka6
16-Jan-25
I was forced to retire from the Carpenters Union in St. Louis Local 1310 after 40 years because my knees are completely blown out. Sure, the pay was good, but the Local was owned by the Contractors. The only way you stayed in good standing was to not bother the BA's and keep your mouth shut. The St. Louis office was shut down and absorbed by Chicago due to corruption.

From: RonP
16-Jan-25
i was never in a union but worked at union shops. at a young age when i started a professional career, i traveled and spent a considerable amount of time working around united auto workers. in my experience, they were the laziest pieces of crap i ever encountered. four almost five decades later it still irritates me to think about it.

i was not allowed to actually do the work when at their facility, i could only give instructions. but had I been able to do the work i could get done more in a half day than those ftards could in a week. what they needed an electrician, millwright, laborer, etc. for, and a week's worth of time, i was able to do the same work by myself at a non-union shop in less than a day.

on the flip side, i also did a lot of work in semiconductor manufacturing plants. again, i was not union but worked with and managed a lot of union people, mostly electricians and pipe fitters. the vast majority did good work and were productive. from a skill and quality standpoint, no question they did better work than non-union jobsites.

i could never work in a union or for the government. as craigmcalvey posted, if you are a good employee unions are a waste. i agree.

16-Jan-25
I am a union member of the IBEW. In my nearly 4 decades, I have seen the best and worst of union membership, unfortunately, more bad than good. We have nearly 33,000 members, and of that number, easily 40% can be let go because they are lazy, and have no pride in their work. They know that they are protected either by grieving a layoff or just knowing that they will get a call back to work. We are the ONLY trade within NYC that makes it's members go through their hiring hall for work. Every other trade can solicit their own work, from laborers, to plumbers, to fitters, to tin knockers, to carpenters. Those that dwell in the ivory tower only care about numbers, or should I say dues paying members. The apprentices have an entitled attitude, and are quick to call the shop steward, the jobs are all "fast track" now, get it done ASAP, and most are PLA's, where we give up holidays, and the 8th hour is straight time. The hall started new divisions, RW (residential wireman) and TDT (tele-data tech). We were told that these were to regain outer borough and residential work that we had lost to non-union contractors. But they are all over Manhattan on "A" rated jobs. These are all older persons, with families, who have put a strain on our medical so much, that our co-pays have all gone up and we now have a deductible. Instead of a young journeyperson starting out, and having little to no medical costs, and allowing the funds to build up, now there are 30-40 year olds with a wife and 3-4 kids. If anyone asks me, I tell them to look for a different career path.

From: spike78
16-Jan-25
My mom worked at the Post Office during the holiday season as a temp. She told me the full timers would sit in a chair reading a newspaper watching her put boxes on pallets. She was in her 60’s at the time and they would help her with larger boxes. She also said they would have designated sleeping areas. My wife’s brother has a union job and was saved by the Union after being caught sleeping in the work truck parked in his backyard. Yeah unions are pretty much just a legal mafia.

From: Basil
16-Jan-25
I’m torn about unions. I retired after about 42 years mostly in 3 unions. I’m enjoying my union pension as I type. The unions did a lot to get wages & working conditions to what we enjoy today. I believe all workers both union & nonunion alike have benefitted from that aspect of unions. Now maybe unions have gone too far with demands. They can cripple companies with petty rules that can drag productivity to a crawl. I’ve worked for non union companies that treat employees well. Problem I see is that companies will abuse the work force if there aren’t guardrails ie unions. People doing union jobs often cry about the dues they don’t want to pay. I feel that if union numbers continue to drop the pendulum will swing & before long people will be begging for more unions. Flip side is that it’s really hard to see a worthless employees who deserves to be fired but must be defended by the union. A huge waste of resources. The bell curve applies with employees. You have the very good & the very bad however most workers are in the middle of the curve somewhere. The bad apples are like a cancer that can drag everyone down. Unions don’t force an employee to be subpar however they don’t push members to be productive either. Personal work ethic plays the biggest part in that. Sad part for me is seeing how these big companies are moving away from pensions & putting the onus back on the employee to save for retirement. I think that will cause that pendulum to start swinging back.

From: absaroka6
16-Jan-25
Basil you are spot on. I didn't have a problem with the dues, I had a problem with the hacks that I had to go behind and fix their work. The 10 year journeymen who couldn't lay out a room square or grout a wall. Don't even get me started on the people who shouldn't have even been hired.

From: Beendare
16-Jan-25
My in-laws are all union workers......contractors that hire all union.

They think the quality of union workers has gone way down hill over the decades. The trades unions lost their way when they worried more about themselves instead of the training and quality of work by the trades.

From: btnbuck
16-Jan-25
I started in a union in the mid 80's at the age of 19 as an apprentice mechanic at a Chevy dealership. It was a 2 year program that lasted 1 year and 3 months. I was upgraded to full journeyman and was on my own. The union did not protect us if our work was sub par or for stupid stuff that we all hear about.

I worked 22 years with the same dealer until he sold out to a non-union owner that got rid of us union boys. Lost 4 weeks vacation and seniority for working hours.

I went to another union shop and took a $15,000 hit to my year end because of the way they "handed" the work out. ( I got a lot of headache jobs that no one else could figure out) That just didn't pay well (flat rate). I did not get along with the shop manager (for obvious reasons) that handed out the work. I ate a lot of $hit that last 9 years but it was worth it to retire out at 49 years old with a full pension (30 and out).

Like you said , a pension and medical ins, was worth it in the long run for me. I never worked with a hall like your trade does.

I haven't looked back. My time is worth way more to me than making someone else money. I'm not living on easy street but it's a livable pension. I live within my means.

From: Basil
16-Jan-25
I’m not sure that the union trades are the only place worker quality has slipped. Seemed like maybe 1 in 5 new guys put in the effort later in my career. I still maintain alot of that goes back to the lack of pride & work ethic. One bad thing about union apprenticeships is that they are designed for success. Subpar people are pushed through. Poor reviews from Journeymen were discouraged in my line of work. This is a mistake because then you’re stuck with a stiff the rest of that person’s career. What’s even worse is that soon they’ll be training the new guy to a new lower standard. Vicious cycle.

From: glenbow
17-Jan-25
I was a plumber/steam fitter in Orange County,New York for 42 years. In that time I have only worked for two contractors. I have certainly had my share of underachievers to deal with. On the other hand I have had men that were excellent. I worked my ass off and was never out of work. I retired at 60(2-1/2 years ago) and absolutely love it. . With my pension and social security I am making the same as when I was working. My wife and I live within our means and are debt free. I have accumulated a fat annuity that we don’t touch. For an 18 year old with no college it was the best choice for me.

17-Jan-25
Al Dente Laptop...

I have never been a member of a union but my brother in law recently retired from the IBEW. Much of what you described is in line with what I have heard from him. Some of the stories he told me about worthless employees that were protected would make your skin crawl. (well, probably not your's...lol)

He used to text me pictures of one of his coworkers that would often sleep on the job. Apparently "Charles" was within a couple years of retirement and he was just riding things out until he could call it quits and get his pension.

When I asked my BIL why the other workers didn't demand something be done about it, he said they actually liked it better when "Charles" was sleeping. Less messes to clean up because of him.

:)

From: Bob Rowlands
17-Jan-25
I retired in the fall of 2023 from 50 years of non union carpentry. My biggest achievement was building our house in 1999 2000.

Quality work and good job performance - doing good work in a timely manner- is more about the dude doing the work, and about the job environment, then it is whether he is union or not.

There are great tradesmen, and those that suck. Guys that hustle, and guys that slack. Self starters and sloths.

Jobs where every man is there hustling and working hard getting their work completed, and others where the pace is slow and guys schlep around yakking and looking at the cell phone.

Some guys don't talk , they work. Others can't move from one area to another without stopping at someone that's working to start a conversation.

Guys that kick ass every day on the job, and guys that slack. Guys that know wtf is going on, and guys that don't have a f,ing clue.

Some work environments promote slacking and doing little. Others most definitely do not.

That's just the way it's always been in the 50 years I carpentered. I knew both types. Most guys are somewhere in the middle.

From: JohnMC
17-Jan-25
Never been a union guy. From my experiences sure seems the free market does a good job of keeping wages fair. I know plenty of business owns that have to pay an arm and a leg to recruit and keep good employees with out the need from a union.

From: Basil
17-Jan-25

Basil's embedded Photo
Basil's embedded Photo
Kinda reminds me of a lot of guys I worked with. ;^)

From: Basil
17-Jan-25

From: 2WildBill
17-Jan-25
Final 29 years of work with a union that has helped me to retire with comfort. A medical provison pays for my health insurance. I had a few bosses that were jerks(putting it mildly) and appreciated union insistance on discipline being progressive and by the rules. Private sector bosses can be hellish to work with. I also saw a decline in quality men to replace oldtimers, most of whom had military trainning and experience.

Union politics were all off base but they were not in the booth when I voted.

IMHO any union ought to provide some paid time off(PTO). The site I worked at was a twenty-four hr, in three shifts, seven day operation.

18-Jan-25
Ricky, it is unfortunate that I have had too many like "Charles". It's kinda hard to pick out the worst, but my top 3 are:

Pedro, who was trying to pick up a sheet of plywood while standing on it. While observing him trying to tape up a nose for a cable pull, I asked him if he was left or right handed, to which he replied "I don't know, not sure."

Skippy, who when introduced by the Shop Steward, I was told to "Don't worry about Skippy, he'll be here everyday and do his own thing, just let him be." Skippy didn't have laces, only Velcro.

Bob, 62 years old, "I'm only here for a pension credit."

And I will be laid off because I don't check the right boxes or am a relative of an ivory tower dweller.

From: glenbow
18-Jan-25
I had a so called “journeyman “ who put in 9’ of 2” pvc pipe in an eight hour work day. He could not understand why he was laid off at the end of his first day ??

18-Jan-25
It's very sad. At my age, I do not have a filter anymore and just lay into anyone who is a slug, and dogging it when working with me. They lack drive, common sense, and pride. Most are not skilled, do not how to work with hand or power tools, do not know material, and cannot read a blue print. 3 years cannot come soon enough for me.

From: Basil
18-Jan-25
In my career I really only saw the need for union representation once and I was happy to have it. During Covid I got very ill & was out on short term disability for several months. Was very disappointed to see the company trying to screw me out of about 160 hours of pay. Turned it over to the union’s Disability solutions department and it was resolved and I was fully compensated within 2 days. The company payroll lady, who was a personal friend, told me “ there’s nothing she could do”. That’s the kind of thing I’m referring to as I mentioned above about “needing guardrails”. When you are wondering if you are going to live or not you shouldn’t have to expend any energy just trying to get what you have rightfully earned. Really left a sour taste in my mouth towards the company after a long & loyal career.

From: Bowbender
19-Jan-25
Back in ‘86 the company I worked for the union struck. Steelworkers. After 6 weeks one guy crossed the line. His wife had cancer, terminal if I remember, and his medical costs significant. They vandalized his home, spray painted scab on his car and house, threatened him…

Told me all I needed to know about “union brothers and sisters”.

From: drycreek
20-Jan-25
I don’t believe in them as they exist today. They might have been good back in the day. I would have a hard time if I had to work hard while some jerkwad was skating by and he was making the same wages as me. I believe in merit, if applied correctly it will not fail. That said, union or not, if you work for an asshole, get a different job. I practiced what I’m preaching my whole life and never regretted it.

From: Mint
21-Jan-25
It depends on the union from what I've seen. I'm basically fine with private unions but all public unions should be abolished, period. My only problem with private unions is that the union heads make deals with the private companies not funding the pensions and then the taxpayers can get holding the bag. As a CPA I've seen a lot of horror stories with unions and private companies but it will work it's way out or the company goes belly up and everyone is out of a job.

From: Babysaph
22-Jan-25
I worked at General Motors as summer help 2 years before going to dental school. I worked in the unit room. One day at my station I bent over to pick up some paper and small boxes that fell over the conveyer behind me. I threw them in the trash and a guy came up behind me and said “don’t do that again.” He said that’s my job. He proceeded to go back over and stand against the wall holding up his broom. He was a union worker and I was not being a summer hire. That was my first taste of the unions.

From: Bowbender
22-Jan-25
Same place as before... Had a machine down, air cylinder was shot. Needed an electrician to remove the prox sensors, plumber to remove the air fittings and a millwright to pyhsically remove the cylinder, then repeat the same bullshit. I swapped it in less than 20 minutes. Grievance was filed. All three got 3 hours pay, cuz I took work from them. **** you, lazy shits. My job was to address mfg issues. I addressed it.

23-Jan-25
When I was a kid, my dad was a union under ground miner. He had to give it up because the union had them striking constantly. Over stupid things. Like the wrong soap in the bath houses, not enough towels to stand on, dry off with, etc…. Stupid crap. Whatever they could find.

The problem with most traditional unions is they don’t care about their members. Only fleecing them for gains for higher ups in the union.

My son is in the IBEW. It’s totally different. You don’t work well, you never get called out. You get a bad report, you get a week or two setting at home thinking about it. Etc….

As a whole, they are the only entity that can provide large numbers of workers for construction, etc…. And, as in all of the work force, you get good and bad.

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