Chess vs Checkers - Connect the dots
Nontypical
Contributors to this thread:
scent 12-Mar-25
SuaSponte 12-Mar-25
Ambush 12-Mar-25
scent 12-Mar-25
WV Mountaineer 12-Mar-25
Ambush 12-Mar-25
scent 12-Mar-25
WV Mountaineer 12-Mar-25
spike78 12-Mar-25
SuaSponte 12-Mar-25
Coyote 65 12-Mar-25
SuaSponte 12-Mar-25
BIGERN 13-Mar-25
Fulldraw1972 13-Mar-25
Beendare 13-Mar-25
Fulldraw1972 13-Mar-25
Ambush 13-Mar-25
SuaSponte 13-Mar-25
Ambush 13-Mar-25
SuaSponte 13-Mar-25
WV Mountaineer 13-Mar-25
Ambush 13-Mar-25
SuaSponte 13-Mar-25
Ambush 13-Mar-25
bigeasygator 13-Mar-25
WV Mountaineer 13-Mar-25
SuaSponte 13-Mar-25
CaptMike 14-Mar-25
70lbDraw 15-Mar-25
bigeasygator 15-Mar-25
Ace 16-Mar-25
bigeasygator 16-Mar-25
SuaSponte 16-Mar-25
2Wild Bill 16-Mar-25
bigeasygator 16-Mar-25
2Wild Bill 16-Mar-25
bigeasygator 16-Mar-25
CaptMike 16-Mar-25
SuaSponte 16-Mar-25
bigeasygator 16-Mar-25
Ace 16-Mar-25
SD 16-Mar-25
CaptMike 16-Mar-25
bigeasygator 16-Mar-25
SD 16-Mar-25
bigeasygator 16-Mar-25
SD 16-Mar-25
CaptMike 17-Mar-25
SuaSponte 17-Mar-25
bigeasygator 17-Mar-25
SuaSponte 17-Mar-25
bigeasygator 17-Mar-25
SuaSponte 17-Mar-25
bigeasygator 17-Mar-25
bigeasygator 17-Mar-25
SuaSponte 17-Mar-25
bigeasygator 17-Mar-25
SuaSponte 17-Mar-25
12-Mar-25
A friend of mine sent me this article this morning and while it is a little lengthy, it is well worth the read. Is Trump really the bumbling, unfocused, oaf that many think he is...or is he engaging in a match of "three-dimensional chess?" If you look at all these things independently (for a day or two of anti-Trump news fodder), like many of Trump's detractors do, they seem kind of foolish. However...

"You might be one of the many who are challenged to fully understand Trump's interests in five separate topics related to the Panama Canal, Greenland, Canada, Mexico, and the Gulf, formally known as the Gulf of Mexico. Some look at it all as crazy talk, while others see some of it as an interesting possibility. Others will see most of it as not being possible, so if it is not possible, then why bring it up? Oftentimes, Trump brings up issues that hardly anyone understood were issues until he brought them up. Then he suggests the furthest possible solutions for consideration. The solutions he suggests are not as important to him as the journey the solutions will take. This means his bold claims and requests got a dialogue going, whereas prior to his suggestion, it wasn’t a topic of conversation. His suggestions for a possible solution started on their journey as he discovered a core problem that nobody was talking about, but he saw a threat that others failed to see. To understand any of them, you have to understand all of them. Once you understand them all, it dawns on you that, wait a minute, these are all connected in a single stream of thought that really has to do with national security and the overwhelming cost of that security.

For the political elite, they don’t have to understand how things work or if they will work for them to vote it through. In contrast, for a business, everything has to be understood, and they all need to work together for the best possible outcome. This is why Washington, DC, makes no sense to anyone living in the real world outside of DC. Trump finds problems others don’t see because he asks questions that politicians don’t ask and, even worse, don’t know to ask.

When Trump first brought up the Panama Canal, I thought a couple of things. First, I agreed that it was worth more than the dollar when Carter basically gave it away. He reminded me again that it was the most expensive project in today’s money ever funded by the United States, and I had forgotten that thousands had lost their lives building it. What I didn’t know was about the Chinese control of either end of the port. I didn’t know that the Navy that protects the canal for Panama for free was paying a million dollars per Navy ship going through the canal. Often, US ships were charged more than other countries, including China. That seemed to me to be abusive treatment by a country that is supposed to be our friend. Sometimes it is hard to understand who is more unfair to us: our friends or our enemies. This was followed by a surprising statement by Trump: we want it back. That seemed far-fetched to me. But wouldn’t you know it, at the State of the Union address, Panama agreed to sell the canal to a US corporation. Just like that, what I thought was not likely became a reality. Nobody in the world made more money on a single dollar invested than the tens of billions that Panama will make on this transaction. I am not a fan of the US corporation, but for now, it’s better than the unfair treatment of Panama and bringing control back to Americans in America. That canal was a huge national security issue to move our military fleets between two oceans, let alone the importance of our goods and services flowing between the two oceans.

This brings me to Greenland. Again, it was interesting to listen to Trump talk about Greenland becoming part of the US. The last time that happened was Hawaii, which became the 50th state in 1959, over 65 years ago. But why Greenland? And what does it have to do with the Panama Canal? More than you might think. If you take the northern route up the western coast of Alaska, then over the top of Canada, and then through the waterway between Canada and Greenland and continue south, you end up at the ports up and down the east coast of America. If you are shipping products from Asia to America and you want to get to the East Coast ports, you can save a million dollars per ship by avoiding the Panama Canal, and even more shockingly, you arrive 5 to 6 days faster. That five-day swing saves Americans billions of dollars from trillions of dollars of products flowing into the United States. It gives America two shipping routes and forces the canal to be more competitive.

Greenland has 57,000 people and doesn’t have the ability to defend itself from nefarious global players. It also has natural resources vital to the US, and its location deals with control of airspace when you think about the golden dome over America, like the Iron Dome over Israel. It’s more than it appears to be. So, it becomes not a conquest but a deal to financially benefit every citizen and provide national security that Denmark cannot do. The Kingdom of Denmark knows they cannot, in the end, protect it from global players who want to diminish America’s success and limit its financial growth.

But there is a catch: the US only has two ice-breaking ships to keep those waters passable. They are the Healy and the Polar Star, run by the Coast Guard. We need between ten and fifteen to do the job. Hence, Trump started talking about bringing back shipbuilding to the US that we frankly gave up to other nations. And recently a CEO of a shipbuilding firm announced a $20 billion dollar investment to build ships and ship containers in the US. You see, every time you hear Trump bring up a topic, it is interconnected to another topic and another and another. None of this stands alone.

This is how businesspeople are wired and why they solve the complex. I promise you that the political elites would never, on their own, put together what I just simply presented to you. What they can do is make the simple complex, which is why we are in the never-ending messes we always seem to be in. It’s not that Trump wants Greenland per se, but frankly, on the global chessboard, Greenland will come to see that they need America more. The good news is America needs Greenland, and Denmark doesn’t scale enough to help Greenland. In fact, Denmark needs Greenland more than Greenland needs Denmark, which is why the people of Greenland have sought more and more independence from Denmark because the value once there is gone.

So now that you see the connection between Greenland and the Panama Canal, what the heck does that have to do with Canada? Well, we are the national security for Canada. We protect their national interests from space, from our Navy and Air Force on their most northern flank, and we do it for nothing, as we do for many nations around the world. Canada is our close friend and our biggest trading partner. But there is a flaw in the relationship: they have had tariffs on our products that are unbalanced. It is complicated because of differences in currencies, interest rates, and, of course, a very large trade imbalance. If all things were equal with trade, tariffs, and national security, then Canada couldn’t survive. Most of the products we buy from them, we make or can make for less. At one point, President Trump, speaking of the problem with Trudeau, asked Justin, “What if everything was equal; what would happen?” to which he replied, “We would fail.” Now think about that for a long, hard moment. Don’t get me wrong: who doesn’t like Canada in America? Everyone loves the country and the people. We love the rivalry of our sports; we have fought in the same wars around the world side by side. They are just the best neighboring country our nation could ever hope to have.

But technically, it’s not working financially for us and therefore not for them because it’s clearly not sustainable for us at $36 trillion in debt. And if we fail, they fail. So, while it sounds crazy to say out loud that Canada should become part of the United States, if you look at the math, it’s not a horrible idea; in fact, it may be the only viable solution. If you combine, from a national security standpoint, Greenland, Canada, and the United States, you begin to see why a merger of three nations just may be the smartest thing to do. In that light, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Well, what does that have to do with Mexico and what was once known as the Gulf of Mexico? Mexico has a similar trading problem with the US as Canada in terms of the size of the trade imbalance and deficit. But it has something below the surface that has proven to be deadly to American interests and the American people. And that is found within one organization with many heads, like a hydra, and that is the cartel that controls nearly the whole of Mexico. They are deadly, dangerous, and not to be messed with. Trump calls them out for what they are: a terrorist organization. They have killed more Americans than any other country we have gone to war with. They are deeply embedded inside our country, in every state and every large or medium-sized city. They control much of the police, the military, the political elites, the press, and many businesses as fronts for the cartel. They have used trillions of dollars they have profited from in drugs that kill, human trafficking that kills, child trafficking that kills, sex trafficking, and even body part trafficking. And who knows how many lawyers, politicians, law enforcement, journalists, and judges they have paid off to hide in the shadows.

But by finally declaring them a terrorist organization and a threat to the United States, the gloves are off. And frankly, we can hunt and kill them wherever they are. The cartel knows it and now understands they are being hunted down quickly. This is not a good neighbor who has let known terrorists from around the world into our country. For whatever reason, the US political elites primarily from one party allowed it to all happen. In doing so, they broke every single recommendation of the 9/11 Commission on how to keep America safe. And that can’t happen on that large of a scale without major payoffs for people to just turn their heads and justify it. Mexico is a mess and dangerous. We have to be nice, but we have to be deadly serious in having them understand that there is a new sheriff in town. They know and are feeling it because illegal crossings are down 94%, which impacts the money flow for the cartel, whose business model is the misery of others for the gain of untold wealth at the expense of others. When the bad guys' revenues go down 94%, bad guys will do bad things, so bad is heading our way. But frankly, bad from them was always here until now. So even when you know bad is coming, you still should do the right thing for the right reasons at the right time.

Which leaves us with the Gulf, previously known as the Gulf of Mexico, which is now known as the Gulf of America. Yep, since the time of the early 1500s, it was known as the Gulf of Mexico by Spain. Prior to that, it was known as the Gulf of New Spain, the Gulf of Yucatan, the Sea of the North, the Cathaynum Sea, the great Antillean Gulf, the Gulf of Cortes, and the Gulf of Florida. In fact, the Gulf of Mexico is an Aztec name and first appeared in print along with other names in 1552. Both Mexico and the United States share the same length of coastlines—about 1,700 miles each.

One could argue that the body of water connects North America, Central America, and South America and could have been called, for good reason, the Gulf of the Americas. So why the Gulf of America? Well, because we spend the most to protect it with the US Navy vs. the Mexican Navy. Federal agencies also protect the outer continental shelf of the gulf as well. Based on international maritime rules, America owns most of the gulf. China was not only using its influence on the Panama Canal but has now aligned with Cuba for intelligence services. So, making these moves is again about national security interests, including the cartel, which is using the Gulf of America as a staging ground to enter drugs by ship, boat, and even submarines to our shores. Notice how when I said the Gulf of America, it sounds in that context, and mostly how that might sound to the cartel.

So, when you connect the dots of the Panama Canal (soon to be owned by American interests), Greenland, Canada, Mexico, and the Gulf, now known as the Gulf of America, it starts to make sense. This is not about whether any of these moves are really for the best; this is about understanding it all first before deciding if you agree or not. When you see them all connected as I do, then you view each independent dot differently. You see them instead as a highly integrated series of strategic moves where, again, the whole of the idea is greater than the sum of its five parts. This is Trump three-dimensional chess, and we are not alone at this game; China is playing the game, and so are Russia and other emerging countries like India and the European Union.

Now you see the chessboard more clearly, and now when you ask yourself why or others ask you why all these chess moves, you will have an informed reply. And when you see the mocking memes about the Canal, Greenland, Canada, or the Gulf, just know they have yet to connect any of the dots like you have."

From: scent
12-Mar-25
When Trump was in his first term I would tell my brother, he's done they just keep coming at him... brother said he's playing with them, he's already 5 moves ahead... my brother is a pretty smart fella!

From: SuaSponte
12-Mar-25
China took control of both east and west Canal ports years ago.

They were running the flow of traffic. Carter really screw us on that deal.

Sea power in general give USA the ability to project military power worldwide.

China keeps up building huge flat tops they will be able to control a bast portion of Pacific and else where.

We need US steel and to building more blue water vessels.

From: Ambush
12-Mar-25
"brother said he's playing with them, he's already 5 moves ahead..."

If that's true, why wasn't his second term consecutive?

From: scent
12-Mar-25
It's playing out now, that's how corrupt the Swamp is... Trump has now aligned himself with the right people... never ever count him out.

12-Mar-25
I kinda figured his detractors thought too much of themselves to ever slow down and consider these things. While, I think most of America has accepted the ugly moments because they understood his intent. Sometimes his approach is not pretty but it forces people to stop and talk about it.

The fact that All countries currently tariffing our goods excessively, are going to be reluctant to have talks about new trade policy, left him no choice. And, he had to do something besides the accepted “presidential” approach.

Unfortunately it has taken his approach to make a lot of the American people aware of just how bad the us tax payer was getting fleeced.

I’m happy the American tax payer has subsidized global markets. It means our fiat currency is king. But, it’s also time to invest back into this countries future. For this countries future. And, I’m willing to forgo my market and retirement returns while he resets the board for that.

This chess match is not a surprise. He told everyone he was going to do it. Why people are running around screaming how stupid he is blows my mind. Did you sleep through the election? None of this is a surprise to anyone except his detractors. I guess the dumbasses still think he’s joking.

From: Ambush
12-Mar-25
But how did they beat him if he was five moves ahead and just playing them? You can’t have it both ways, at least not while thinking it through honestly.

Trump can/could accomplish some good and necessary things. but not on his current trajectory. He’s going to have a lot of (maybe not) unintended casualties and that is going to bring him down. I will predict that he loses both houses by his halfway mark. And I also think you’ll see some big cracks develop in the Reps.

I know that some of you believe that more and more Americans are getting behind him now that they see his master plan, but I think the opposite will play out.

Time will tell.

12-Mar-25
Anyone care to comment on the actual contents of the article?

From: scent
12-Mar-25
Time will tell.

12-Mar-25
Ha! Kinda glazed right over that as I connected those dots a while back. And, thought it was a general consensus everyone agreed on.

Trump most certainly has a plan. And, intends to kill a lot of birds with a limited amount of stones. And, National security heads the list as his priority. Everything else is a bonus.

In college, I took debate classes as electives. The first lesson is you gotta get everyone to pay attention. Trump’s good at that.

From: spike78
12-Mar-25
Ricky I read the whole thing word for word and it’s good to see through all the crazy shit that it seemed. Interesting to see how it plays out.

12-Mar-25
I agree spike.

From: SuaSponte
12-Mar-25
He did win Consecutively. Think Obiden got 81 million real votes?

This election in Nov was hailed by every state as historic numbers of voters. Looks at vote totals.

Just another C-Stani who has R W & B wannabe oozing out.

Here’s another great Canada Fighting SF story from A-Stan in 2013.

In a big Training FOB for ANASOC there was a Can SF team. They could not go out wire and fight. They could only defend themselves. So , they got attached to the Data collecting Anthropology folks on contract to win in AFG by understanding what demographic of people were supporting the Taliban. The Can Gvt would not let them fight but they had all the Men Wpns and Equip to do so.

So, one night in late fall. All hell breaks out in Fob up hill, I figger We’re getting stroked by the Boogers?! $hits blowing up, rounds going off and now big fire on Mt just above me. Grab some guys and pie’d a few corners and we see its the Cunnuck SF guys chit blowing up and on fire . Everything. Their hards stands with all equip burned to ground and blew up. Why, they had way to much crap plugged into a big generator. Shorted cooked the place.

Took a piss, put a dip in and watched it burn out all the while frags, rounds popping off. Not sure what they did after that. Got shipped or they made them CLP sec on the roads.

From: Coyote 65
12-Mar-25
Canadian Tidbit. I was working in Vietnam after the US pulled out. There was a International Commission of Control and Supervision (ICCS)with 4 countries to supervise the ceasefire. Hungary, Poland, Canada and Indonesia.

Canada showed up with a couple of planes and set up their headquarters, right after they set up the "club".

A Vietnamese Sgt. I worked with told me that ICCS really stood for "I can't control shit". The Canadian left after about 6 months, claimed the North Vietnam was trying to Hoodwink everyone. I think they ran out of booze.

Terry

From: SuaSponte
12-Mar-25
The C-Stan i do not think has had a forced entry Bde or Bn Abn Unit for many years. How could they ever project power? The C dollar….

No secret why NORAD is in middle of the USA? Not contracting our security out to 2nd country nationals.

From: BIGERN
13-Mar-25
Ricky, That is a great read. Can you find out and tell us who wrote that article? Really like to know...

13-Mar-25

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
As I said, a friend forwarded it to me. This is all I know.

From: Fulldraw1972
13-Mar-25
“If that's true, why wasn't his second term consecutive?”

2 simple reasons. Covid and the medias suppression of the Hunter Biden laptop.

From: Beendare
13-Mar-25
But JayG....we know from the resident expert here on the forum......the president really doesn't do anything.....

Ha!

From: Fulldraw1972
13-Mar-25
Ricky, I think that is well written and explains Trumps thinking very well.

From: Ambush
13-Mar-25
If the goal of the 3D chess game is to "break it to fix it" and "tear it down and start over", then there are a couple of things to consider.

We live in a big world that has become quite small because of technology and interconnectedness. There are no islands or completely safe, Safe Havens. The BRICS could easily become a very big threat to western democracies. So far over a third of the world's population has signed on to what is right now a loose consortium and all are countries that would love to see the US fall and fail. China, Russia, India, many Arab nations, plus smaller players. And don't forget about the criminally insane, third cousin N Korea. Conceivably, four or five billion people in the world would like to see the US toppled and trampled. Not sure how smart it is to make enemies of the rest too?

Now Trump is upsetting the world applecart, then driving a Tesla Cyber Truck over it. China will soon have all of Africa under it's wing and control too, thanks to the vacuum left there. The time is ripening for when not every knee will bend before the almighty American dollar.

The thing about going for broke is......

.....sometimes you end up broke.

From: SuaSponte
13-Mar-25
Sure!

Let Canada go Whole hog with China see what happens.

Statehood for you.

From: Ambush
13-Mar-25
Sua, you should get someone to drill a good sized hole in your head and let the stupid out.

From: SuaSponte
13-Mar-25
How much land youz guys already cede to China?

Already had that dine after last trip to Cunnuckistan.

13-Mar-25
Ambush, any predictions on what currency will be used when this trust worthy group of countries convinces the rest of the world to trade with their preferred fiat instead?

From: Ambush
13-Mar-25
My apologies Sua, your brain injury should have been obvious to me by now. Hope you get the help you need.

From: SuaSponte
13-Mar-25
No worries. You’re TD a MDS are hard in some Socialists.

Your Premier has said without USA you fella’s up there are screwd.

Thats the Lib who was running ya into the dirt for a decade.

From: Ambush
13-Mar-25
Justin, I'm not trying to insult you or your country, but these are things to seriously consider. And yes, it is my business because our wagons are hitched together. Brics has been evolving for over twenty years, seriously taking shape over the last five and I believe is being very, very seriously discussed and planned behind all those closed doors. It's not just a boogeyman to scare the free world. And the time to make a push is when the free world is in a tailspin and turmoil. They already have their currency figured.

Now there are a number of very stupid people, like Mr Aliases above, that think the US is invincible, unassailable and unstoppable and everybody else are dumb, dirt sucking, inept cowards, but they are dead wrong. If it came to a conventional war, Brics has the manpower to overrun like relentless army ants. If its nuclear , then everybody loses.

Google Brics group, check the population of each member and have a look at their military might and resources. They are all smiling, talking and planning. Kinda like when getting ready to throw a surprise party for someone.

I don't think even ole' Sua can stop them. Well maybe, if he could get Kirk Douglas and John Wayne back in uniform.

From: bigeasygator
13-Mar-25
Anyone care to comment on the actual contents of the article?

That was an article? Frankly it read like incoherent rambling with no real point. This is somebody trying to connect dots that don’t even really exist. Yes, I’m sure renaming the Gulf of America was a strategic move linked to fighting drug cartels Arctic trade routes and not just a bit F You from Trump.

It is complicated because of differences in currencies, interest rates, and, of course, a very large trade imbalance

The line above says all I need to know about this person’s understanding of these things. It is not complex because of those things - those things all have a relationship that is easily described and understood by anyone that has a minimal amount of training in economics.

13-Mar-25
Ambush, I agree. And, I understand your position both personally and on a formal level concerning trumps actions. I’ve stated as much and hope this settles where both countries benefit. Because we are hitched.

I also understand the concerns about BRICS and the gains they’ve made on the dollar. But, where I differ from you about what’s best for America, is I am certain Trump has those concerns as well.

I can’t stress this enough. Read what Ricky said about negotiations. It’s basic in that Trump has no intentions of preparing his opponents for anything but defense. While ugly, it’s effective because it’s so brash. And, it sets a tone that can only be appreciated for the results.

And, I’m positive that everything Trump accomplishes will be because of genuine intent to represent what is best for America.

What this world needs most is a strong America. We were giving that away. In almost every way.

Relax. Common methods yields common results.

From: SuaSponte
13-Mar-25
Why would USA care to subsidize the EU or anyone for that matter.

They the ones funding the War buying energy from Russians in Chinese flagged ships or from Iran

This was all telegraphed by DJT. If you did not action to secure yourself, well its on you. Heck, most voted for it. He spelled out TARIFFS

Canada has not paid its dues for years. Why dont they take over blue water sec for north America for 5 decades or so.

From: CaptMike
14-Mar-25
TDS can cause a person to say “incoherent rambling.” Not at all unusual for those affected people to disparage another point of view. Sleazy, thanks for yet another confirmation of one of your afflictions.

From: 70lbDraw
15-Mar-25

70lbDraw's Link
‘Ricky, That is a great read. Can you find out and tell us who wrote that article? Really like to know...”

It came from Facebook. Just copy and paste the article in your web browser and it’ll show where it originated.

From: bigeasygator
15-Mar-25
It came from Facebook

That’s exactly what I would expect after reading it.

15-Mar-25

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
The piece was written by Dennis Conforto.

Here is another, equally as thought provoking.

15-Mar-25

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
One more.

16-Mar-25

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
Regarding "Chess vs Checkers" looks like Trump et al managed to "fork" the dems again.

The Trump-Johnson-Thune budget victory

"Yet, with help from Office of Management and Budget Director Russ Vought, President Trump executed what would have been called in chess a fork.

A fork is a setting where your opponent has two chess pieces at risk. Both cannot be saved. The only choice is which one to sacrifice.

The continuing resolution coming out of the House was entirely Republican. It cut spending. It shifted spending from domestic policies Republicans opposed to into immigration enforcement and defense. More importantly, it rewrote current law to give President Trump and Elon Musk greater flexibility to cut spending and waste.

The Democrats were furious that they were being cut out of the process. They were desperate to defeat the Republican effort, so they could then offer to work with them and develop a much more liberal and anti-change bill.

When the Democrats failed to stop Speaker Johnson, they had only two choices. Both were painful.

They could all vote no. If the Senate Democrats did this, the Republicans would not be able to get past the filibuster, and so the government would shut down. In this case, standing up to President Trump might have been a political victory for their base. But it wouldn’t play well with the rest of the country.

Then the Democrats realized President Trump could cut more programs and reshape the bureaucracy even more under a shutdown scenario than he could if they passed the bill, which they thought already granted him too much power.

So, the choice for the Democrats became to pass a bill that gave President Trump more authority to cut government – or stop the bill and give him even more authority.

President Trump, Speaker Johnson, and Majority Leader Thune played this round brilliantly and won a huge victory."

From: Ace
16-Mar-25
Sometimes it’s hard to tell if people here are: Worried About, or Predicting, or Hoping for a USA loss on the world stage.

Do you really hate Trump so much that you want this country to fail just to see him lose? SMH

From: bigeasygator
16-Mar-25
Personally Ace, it’s mostly the first (worried about), a lot of the second (predicting), and none of the third (hoping for).

And to your second question, no. The last thing I want is for this country to be worse off, and certainly don’t want it to fail. When I speak up, it’s because I have concerns that that is the path we are headed down. I hope we don’t get too far.

16-Mar-25
"Do you really hate Trump so much that you want this country to fail just to see him lose?"

For some, this is exactly the case.

From: SuaSponte
16-Mar-25
Whole Dem party is of that group.

If presidents dont have power to make the economy boom. Why if economy Bidenomics get hung on Joe and Harris and they got crushed in Nov 24?

Trump did not win a 271 sqweeker…..

From: 2Wild Bill
16-Mar-25
Well indeed there has been a lot of thought and provocation in this thread, however, let me introduce the essential participant, Psalm 22:28(KJV)

From: bigeasygator
16-Mar-25
Why if economy Bidenomics get hung on Joe and Harris and they got crushed in Nov 24?

Read an article from two ex-professors that looked into this very question. Namely, why did Dems lose given the strength of the economy. They weren’t convinced that Trump was elected because people were confused by the economy (I have different opinions), and postulated a different theory.

Namely, that Dems tend to do well in elections when economies are struggling, and Republicans tend to do well when the economy is strong.

When the economy is weak, people become more risk averse and prefer Dem policies of redistribution and social insurance. When the economy is strong, they prefer more risk and appreciate Republican policies with fewer safety nets and lower taxes.

This trend has held up in all recent elections and also relative to some of the major financial events of the last 60 years.

Trump did not win a 271 sqweeker…..

In terms of the electoral vote, it wasn’t close. In terms of the popular vote - even in swing states - it was. If one voter out of a hundred in each of those states switched their vote from Trump to Harris she would have won all of the swing states.

From: 2Wild Bill
16-Mar-25
"if"

BEG, It is said that about you too, but we know better than to expect you to .............mend your ways.

From: bigeasygator
16-Mar-25
Duplicate post

From: CaptMike
16-Mar-25
Trump won each and every swing state. “If” the queen had balls she’d be king. But she isn’t.

From: SuaSponte
16-Mar-25
89% of counties saw gains to the right in 2024.

Clearly the swing everywhere was toward everything DJT was saying in run up to November.

So to put up some alternate Deep Fake data is like saying early Apollo missions succeeded by 1-2% . The history kinda stands for itself.

He lost popular vote in 2016 was he any less POTUS

16-Mar-25
"“If” the queen had balls she’d be king."

Contrary to what the smartest people in the room believe, or are willing to admit, therein lies a large part of the reason Trump won, and so many counties shifted to the right. Many Democrats would have us believe that the queen actually CAN be the king...an the king actually CAN be the queen...balls or no balls...and for the vast majority of Americans, that was just a bridge too far.

Yes, the economy is important but not the most important this time. The vast majority of Americans have been seeing their entire social and family structure slip away for quite some time...and they wanted it back. They have had enough of being told what they KNOW to be right is wrong...and if they speak out they are somehow evil.

From: bigeasygator
16-Mar-25

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Yes, the economy is important but not the most important this time

Still trying to rewrite history, eh, Ricky? This is demonstrably false. Overwhelmingly the economy was listed as the most important issue to voters, including those in swing states and those in the middle that decided the last election.

Keep living in the fantasy world that you want to live in KPC, where trans rights decided the election, but know that it’s not even close to reality. “It’s the economy, stupid” as it will always be.

From: Ace
16-Mar-25

From: SD
16-Mar-25
Did the poll even have a "sick of woke ideology hiring people instead of qualifications." option? I bet that easily accounted for 1 out of 100 in swing states.

From: CaptMike
16-Mar-25
Sleaze, what were the polls saying about Trump’s chances in 2016? Hi ahead and Google it! Lol! Of course no poll can be wrong, or do you only stand behind the ones that promote your agenda? You continue to be pathetically supportive of mental disease. Like most current libs, you are unable to read the writing on the wall.

From: bigeasygator
16-Mar-25

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Did the poll even have a "sick of woke ideology hiring people instead of qualifications." option? I bet that easily accounted for 1 out of 100 in swing states.

Not in those exact words, SD. This is how the Gallup poll was phrased.

PS - you ever do your 100 pushups?

From: SD
16-Mar-25
I looked over those poll questions pretty well and didn't see any that would fit in the category I'm referring to. I really think biden was trying to make a point and/or appease a segment of the population that ended up not being big enough to help their cause. I know a lot of people who don't care one bit how someone dresses or what they look like as long as they get the job done. To most of these people it appeared biden was hiring people more for how they looked or dress, rather than what they could do. I think it bit Harris (and the dems) in the ass.

Lol, I did do them. Didn't even wait until inauguration as I felt foolishness would have happened with the election results, so when it didn't I went ahead and paid up. To be honest it took 4 sets, couldn't do them all at once.

From: bigeasygator
16-Mar-25
To most of these people it appeared biden was hiring people more for how they looked or dress, rather than what they could do. I think it bit Harris (and the dems) in the ass.

I don't disagree. I don't think it's why Harris lost, but I don't think it helped the Dems at all.

To be honest it took 4 sets, couldn't do them all at once.

Respectable.

From: SD
16-Mar-25
It may or may not be why Harris lost. But from the git-go she was viewed as a pick of no substance. Had biden announced his running mate would be picked due to considerable measures taken to find the right candidate of the highest standards it might have been different, set her in a good light. Instead he said his pick would be a woman of color and instantly ruined any credibility she could have had or gained over the next 4yrs. In my opinion he set an image that she couldn't overcome (plus she did herself no favors in that time as she was mostly silent and did little leg work to help herself).

As far as the economy goes it's easy to remember that our spending power was great under Trump's 1st term, and that inflation under biden's term was difficult at best. Suppose it doesn't really matter if either president had anything to do with those trends.

17-Mar-25

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
"I looked over those poll questions pretty well and didn't see any that would fit in the category I'm referring to."

Everything depends on what questions are asked, how they are asked, and who is asked. The devil is always in the details.

The Dems own polling (at link) shows that for swing voters (the only voting block that truly matters these days) that chose Trump, the biggest reason was that "Kamala Harris is focused more on cultural issues like transgender issues rather than helping the middle class."

It wasn't just the transgender issue, it was all the social and cultural issues like trans/DEI/race/abortion/illegal immigration/education/etc.

People have had enough. They are tired of seeing the culture slip away.

This is said to be the most effective ad in the 2024 presidential campaign.

From: CaptMike
17-Mar-25
Yeah, trans, homos, people choosing their own genders and all other deviant behavior has nothing to do with it. That thought process, in and of itself signifies serious mental issues. One either needs to be morally corrupt or mentally diseased to say deviant behavior has no influence on political choices.

From: SuaSponte
17-Mar-25
Big article in the Socialist Mag Economist.

How migrant illegals take from host nation and dont add to GDP. Study out of Sweeden.

Same here when you add the Gvt services by states and Gvt. Big rip off on tax payers.

From: bigeasygator
17-Mar-25
How migrant illegals take from host nation and dont add to GDP. Study out of Sweeden.

Link please

From: SuaSponte
17-Mar-25
Buy a subscrition We’re not you Wiki-Lib.

Got Axis to process. Hunters hunt.

From: bigeasygator
17-Mar-25
I have a subscription. I see no such article. Hence why I asked for a link.

From: SuaSponte
17-Mar-25
E.H been writing about the outcomes and trajectories for years in the Mag and other papers. All over that Liberal Rag.

Its no wonder your Economy principles are all skewd. They have it right on their migrants now. Have all data on the groups and sub groups in Sweeden pulling on their economy.

From: bigeasygator
17-Mar-25
More incoherence, Shawn. No clue what you're saying.

I asked a simple question. Provide a link to the "study out of Sweden" that you said is in the Economist or else I'll just assume it doesn't exist and you're making stuff up.

17-Mar-25

Ricky The Cabel Guy's Link
Don't know about the one out of Sweden, but here is one out of the USA.

From: bigeasygator
17-Mar-25

bigeasygator's Link
Very familiar with that study as it's been cited multiple times on this forum and very familiar with the bias of CIS. Note that they did not attempt to even look at the cost-benefit tradeoffs, which Shawn claimed that this study out of Sweden did. The CIS study only looked at costs and even their costs are questionable, as the linked CATO Institute testimony highlights.

Another report from the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) finds similarly negative results for illegal immigrants. CIS’s main mistake is that it misallocates most of the cost of pure public goods, such as national defense and interest payments on existing debt, to new immigrants. Excluding public goods is appropriate because accepting an additional immigrant does not require additional spending on them. Correcting its methodology to exclude public goods reverses CIS’s conclusion from a net present value cost to a net present value gain of about $900 billion in today’s dollars.37 Furthermore, CIS’s estimate fails to account for the effect of immigrants on companies’ capital income, which—as noted above—radically reduces the fiscal benefits of immigration.

From: SuaSponte
17-Mar-25
The detail info from the Swede in depth studies more closely parallel CIS studies although sweedes are dealing with a smaller migrant group.

Migrants here clearly draw more than they input in tax base. They also take untaxed gains and directly wire them OCONUS which CIS does not capture.

CATO …….:(

From: bigeasygator
17-Mar-25
The detail info from the Swede in depth studies...

These studies that you will not provide any link to. Got it.

They also take untaxed gains and directly wire them OCONUS which CIS does not capture.

And? You can't spend dollars outside of the United States. Tell me you don't understand the role of exchange rates without telling me you don't understand the role of exchange rates.

PS - it's not just OCONUS, btw...when it comes to the economy, DC, Hawaii, and Alaska count as America, too.

From: SuaSponte
17-Mar-25
Swede has a office like CIS. Need a lesson to view it.

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