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OBA and crossbows

I heard the OBA was changing their by-laws to accomodate crossbow users? Is it true?

I heard points from both sides at the banquet last winter, They decided to form a panel to gather the facts and get a general consensus on what the membership thinks about the issue. It will be interesting on what comes of this! I hope this issue don't divide us any more than it has already, and what ever they decide I'll be on board with it,I hope every one else does the same and we can put this behind us! MIKE

Mike a committee was formed but they have not "gather the facts and get a general consensus on what the membership thinks about the issue"! From what I have seen the committee are coming from a biased a view point as they have accused the OBA of coming from, only from the crossbow side. As I no longer am on the advisory board of the OBA I only speak form a life members point of view. I know the proposal was to be presented at the OBA shoot a Ross County at the Saturday meeting. I am sure there will be a mailing of some sort to the membership.

I also know that the bowhunters of this state need to get their ducks in a row if they do not want their state organization stolen from under their noses. The crossbow faction has been very busy recruiting crossbow shooters to join and take over. A word to the wise! Flame away.

Nice work Ted. Not accurate, but that does not seem to matter with you. There will never be a"theft" of the OBA. The committee presented a proposed amendment to OUR constitution.........please note: that does not say Ted Young's Constitution. The proposed amendment says simply that the OBA will recognize any legal archery gear as does the State of Ohio to be used during archery season. It has to be read again at the next meeting which will be held at OUR next shoot at Claylick in August.

I have never hunted with a crossbow, hope I never have a need to, but am glad the State of Ohio gives me that option if I so choose. With that being said, I do not like being referred to as "the crossbow faction". Please refrain from addressing me or anyone else on the committee in such a manner.

We have recruited new members, I think I was told about twenty new members joined before the banquet in February regarding this issue. The new members that I have spoken with regarding this issue are NOT crossbow shooters, just bowhunters that do not think it is positive to have an organization of hunters that is perceived to be "anti" any other group of hunters. Your "anti-crossbow" rhetoric does not have a place in todays world Ted. I spent the weekend at Ross County, shooting, having fun and supporting the OBA. In that time I spoke with many long-time members that I previously thought would be against this amendment, they weren't.........surprise. It will go to vote, and whatever the membership decides will be the final word.

Brock you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine. There is no need to slam me or paint in with your critical brush. Although you do seem to good at that if some ones opinion is different than yours. JMHO

????????????

Read your first post.

Get your facts together.

Simple requests from a fellow OBA member.

This time Ted is right on. The crossbow thing will never work as the chair person for the crossbow people has failed his crossbow people and the OBA. At claylick there will be something done and the crossbows out of the OBA hair once and for all.

brock thanks for falling on you face.

Who is the chairperson for the committee?

The way it was explained to us at the OBA meeting last weekend was the 2nd reading will be held at the claylick meeting then it goes to a vote... Did you (fletch) or Ted attend the meeting last weekend?

mr. white I'm not sure what if Fletch or I was at the meeting has to do with the price of tea in China. At any rate I know Fletch was at the shoot. As for me, no I was not and the reasons are mine and ask kindly as I can put it, none of your business or any one else for that matter.

Just curious, but when crossbows are allowed in the OBA will you renounce your life membership?

Just for my own information, is there an Ohio state crossbow organization? If so, how many active members do they have? Do they hold shoots?

How about some of our local clubs who allow crossbows... When they have a shoot, how many crossbow shooters attend?

If the answers to these questions are as I suspect, the bottom line will be, why waste an organizations time in setting up separate accomodations for a group of persons who do not attend, do not support, and do not contribute to the advancement of archery?

Hiller,

For your information, the OBA has never stated officially that they want to do away with crossbows. True, they fought the inclusion of crossbows into the general archery season, which was before my time.

I am a member of the OBA, but hold no office and can not speak on their behalf. If I am mistaken in what I just typed, I am sure it will be brought to my attention. This is the way I understand it, though.

The OBA does not recognize crossbows as a "bow" according to their constitution. This is NOT the same as trying to do away with them. OBA even offered to help the crossbow guys start their own organization, to no avail. I see it like this. Do they allow semi auto pistols in Cowboy Action Shooting? NO. AR-15's at the National Muzzleloading Championships? NO. The reason being that they are not the same thing. Get the picture?

There was a push a couple years ago by a group of guys to start a new organization called "The United Bowhunters of Ohio" (UBO, for short). I witnessed some of their discussions on the message boards about how they would include crossbows in their organization and how they were going to "outclass" the OBA. Guess what? They never even got it off the ground.

If there is that much of a need for an organization that includes crossbows and vertical bows, why was there not enough support for UBO to get off the ground? I guess it is easier to try a "hostile takeover" (my words, no one else's) of an existing group.

I was not at the meeting either, but I have seen a copy of the proposal. It amazed me, the number of times that the word "Industry" was used, when refering to bowhunting. I guess when 2 of the driving forces behind this push are trying to sell something, it was bound to come out that way.

I dont always agree with Ted on things, but I gotta stand with him on this one. I am not a life member such as Ted, but if this initiative passes, I will renounce my membership.

BP

Hiller stated it well. The IBO allows crossbows at all of there shoots. They are not a factor. Out of approximately 1500 shooters on average, they may have 3 or 4 crossbow shooters competing. Bringing current crossbow lovers into the organization would be a false hope.

I can say without question the current stand on crossbows has cost the OBA membership. I say that simply because when I first became an OBA county rep, I worked diligently to sign new members. I contacted everyone I knew and many I did not to join. On the front of the application it clearly states, "No Crossbows". It does not state, "No Muzzleloaders", "No Shotguns", or any other implement. This along with a few outspoken members and the OBA's official current stance on crossbows have given the OBA an "anti" image. By that I mean it appears to possible new members that the OBA is working against sportsmen that we as bowhunters share a season with. That image is not positive for the OBA IMO.

If we can pass the proposed amendment, we can grow the OBA. We can recruit new members that will be able to feel pride in their organization and promote it without having to explain the crossbow bias. The OBA does a lot of good to the benefit of every sportsman in Ohio, sadly, it's reputation is tarnished by the crossbow issue. That will remain the case regardless of the good deeds the OBA does as long as the official stance remains the same. That is why I feel the amendment is necessary.

At the meeting on Saturday, Neal Near, one of the founding members, stated that the constitution was put together before crossbows were widely available. When they came to market, the OBA took a negative view of them due to the ease of use for poachers. He then thanked everyone in the room for the work they were doing FOR THE OBA. I got the feeling he recognized that no one attending had any intention of STEALING the OBA, just trying to lead it in a direction the two parties felt would be best for the organization respectively.

I hope I have cleared up "our side" of the issue a bit. If any of you have any more questions, please feel free to contact me. Call anytime, I do not sleep.) 937 205 6000.

Thunderflight, he already did that.

Brock,

I believe you are wrong in your assumption that OBA will grow with the inclusion of crossbows. Maybe they would. I cant see into the future, so I dont know. But I can tell you this. I know of many members who will leave if this proposal passes.

BP

I would assume those members are not a part of the OBA to protect, promote and upgrade bowhunting.

The word industry was never used in the proposed amendment. The amendment simply states that the OBA would define a bow as anything the State of Ohio deems legal to use during archery season.

Perhaps you are right, I cannot see into the future either. However, the way things are now, the OBA is stagnant at best. Arguments are easily started over this issue. When speaking to the officers, they are tired of hearing about it. Although there has been infighting over the issue for years, I do not think it has ever actually been put to a vote, so I think it is time to settle it one way or another and bury it either way.

Brock,

You are right, and I am mistaken. The word "industry" and "corporate sponsorship" was not used in the actual proposed change.

What I was refering to was the lead in paragraph written by the committee. Copied below.

______________________________________________________

"Proposed Amendment Change

The current stance on crossbows within the OBA has been a main contributor for the steady decline of memberships over the past several years. It is not so much that accepting crossbow into the OBA will increase crossbow user membership but rather eliminate the negative and almost anti-crossbow perception that people have of the OBA. Having this anti-crossbow stigma only hinders the OBA and it's ability to promote themselves within the industry. If the OBA desires to increase new memberships, participation, corporate sponsorships and overall standing within the industry, then the OBA needs to take a proactive approach in regards to accepting the crossbow. This includes eliminating the anti-crossbow logo on the membership application, not telling potential members that “they are not welcome to join” if they use crossbows and finally the OBA should no longer align themselves with any anti-crossbow associations. This does mean however, the OBA should encourage EVERY archer in Ohio to join the OBA regardless of what they hunt with during archery season. The more members the OBA has equates to a stronger more viable organization that will attract more corporate sponsorships as well as hold a much larger voice in the hunting community/industry. The committee has enclosed documentation including data on harvests, hunter, safety, speed and force (in regards to the comparison to vertical bows and target damage (basically no difference)) as well as management data as reported by the ODNR and other documentation that the committee thought was important to include. It is important to know that we believe the OBA has great potential and we also believe that accepting the crossbow into the OBA will only increase the overall position within the industry. This action will increase the ability for the OBA to gain new memberships, corporate sponsors, and become one of the finest organizations in the state promoting archery as it is recognized by the state. This will also eliminate the defense position the OBA has to take in regards to this topic. It is time for the OBA to spend time dedicating towards the future of archery and the OBA rather than time spend divided between hunters based on legal archery weapons.

The OBA has the opportunity to raise the bar by looking past personal biases and eliminate the negative “anti” crossbow reputation."

______________________________________________________

As to questioning the loyalty of the members I know who would leave OBA if the propoasal passes, I cant think of too many people I have met, that are more dedicated to the sport of bowhunting than them.

Not a one of them is involved in bowhunting to garner wealth, or fame, or to say "I shot the biggest buck". These guys are the epitome of what what all bowhunters should aspire to be. Some of these guys have only hunted their back yards. Some have hunted around the world. Some are officers in other local pro hunting organizations, and some have held national offices with pro hunting groups. Some are amazing shots with a bow and arrow, and some cant hit a "bull in the butt with a base fiddle".

They are all BOWHUNTERS though, and have dedicated what free time their life gives them, to the pursuit of game with a bow and arrow. I would think these to be the kind of people OBA would want in their corner. If crossbows infiltrate the OBA, that wont matter.

BP

Saturday afternoon of the next two day shoot. Around aug 20........./?

I will be there around noon to shoot if you want to tag along.

When did the OBA become the "Ohio Hunting Organization?" It is the Ohio BOWHUNTERS Association! A crossbow is not included in this! Daaa. Let the crossbow people start their own organization, and best of luck to them, but I, like many others, do not agree with the crossbow in the OBA. Like Brian, and many others, I'm gone if this passes!!!!! To those that started this issue, thanks for distroying the OBA!!!

There have been some good points made in this discussion, and some really stupid ones. You can pick which you like, or not. I have read the attachment Brian posted and I think I want to throw-up, but then I'm a bowhunter in a bowhunting organization, or I was in the organization. THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE OF IF THE CROSSBOW SHOULD BE IN THE ARCHERY SEASON, IT IS AN ISSUE OF THE CROSSBOW BEING IN THE OBA! There is nothing wrong with setting standards, and what we have is fine. I'm out of here!

"The current stance on crossbows within the OBA has been a main contributor for the steady decline of memberships over the past several years."

since this notion seemingly serves as the foundation for the action being taken to change the OBA constitution, can the person(s) who penned that statement prove it to any believable extent with verifiable facts? perhaps something like how many former members actually dropped out because of the OBA's defintion of a bow. rewriting a fundamental part of the constitution is serioud bidness boys, and I just don't think suppostion, hearesay and opinion is going to seal the deal when a 2/3 majority vote is required to make it happen. I definitely don't think that having the State of Ohio defining standards for the organization is going to relieve the OBA of the stigma that the same State of Ohio created in the first place by forcing crossbows on us to begin with. The OBA didn't create the problem, but they certainly have been victimized by it. plagued by it for nearly 20 years. I'd be happy to see this issue put to rest once and for all, too, but it ain't gonna happen. whether or not this initiative passes, or even makes it to a vote, the vituperation the OBA takes over crossbows won't end.

OK Jamie, you win! Nice post. But what the heck does "vituperation" mean?

Goose

Yea, Miller. Your wife teach you that word?

BP

Hmmmm, funny this conversation sounds a lot like some of them I have heard at OBA functions. From the outside looking in, as a potential new member, this would not be the kind of group I would want to be a part of. However, since I am already in and would like to see this sort of thing ended, I am glad it will be going to vote. I am sorry that some of feel this is ruining YOUR club, however, I do not share that opinion. I think it is an opportunity for the OBA to move past this issue and get on with much more pressing matters.

For those of you that want to keep the same old status quo; when this thing is all over and done, you should put forth an effort to screen OBA applications a bit better. It is easy to see the difficulties that free thinking people have caused you.

Dont pat yourself on the back too much there, Brock. I am sure you think you have won your battle since many of us have said we will leave the OBA if crossbows are allowed in. It aint over yet.

I have no problems with free thinking people, my problems lie with people who think they should be invited to functions which they are not qualified to be at.

Let me put it to you this way.

I would love to be an Olympic gold medal winner in the 400 meters. Now, anyone who has ever met or even seen me, knows that will never happen. Why? Because I dont have the drive or dedication to train enough to accomplish this. Does that mean I should still be allowed to race at the upcoming Olympics, but given a 300 meter head start, just because I want to win? Crossbows in archery season and or OBA is the same thing.

Bowhunting isnt, and shouldnt be, for everyone. If people dont have the drive and determination to train enough to participate with a vertical bow, why should the rules change to suit those people?

Before I get blasted about people with disabilities not being able to use a vertical bow, let me say there are definately circumstances that dictate the use of crossbows in bow season. On the other hand, who is familiar with John Rook? The man is blind, yet he builds his own bows and hunts (with the aid of a sighter). I have seen numerous people at different shoots that draw bows with their teeth. I have seen people with prothstetic limbs shaped to hold their bow. It all boils down to what you want to do.

Bowhunting became popular as a way to increase the challenge of taking game. Why then, should we change our stance (and organization) to suit people who dont want to embrace that challenge, regardless what ODNR says?

BP

Goose, it means effectively the same thing as railing or berrating or censure.

Brock, this will either be the single very best thing or the single very worst thing that has ever happenend to OUR club. (that extry Y in there musta been a typo, right?) time will tell.

yea, if I were in charge of the OBA, the first thing I would do would be eliminate all those pesky free thinking types. sheep are sooo much easier to control... :-) all kidding aside, I asked an honest and legitimate question. prove the validity of the premise in question. It's only my opinion, but I think the reasoning used as to the decline of the membership is flawed.

Brock you wrote "Thunderflight, he already did that" Once again you show just how good you are at disseminating misinformation! I was removed from the advisory board, nothing more. Your really should get ALL your fact correct before spreading poorly thought out information. Your apology will be graciously accepted.

No back patting here. I would be surprised if it passed. However, it needs to be put on the table. Beyond that, whatever is...is.

Ted, I apologize. Perhaps I was mistaken or simply misunderstood your own words. When you stated that you no longer claimed any affiliation with the OBA, I assumed you relinquished your life membership. I am sorry to have made such a grievous error. But, as you can see, it was an easy mistake to make. I am likely not the only person to have made this mistake, it is good to have cleared this up. If your rage has effected your memory, I can pull up quotes, but it will have to wait as I have to go to work.

I've read alot about xbows bringing in more members and I highly doubt it, the xbow has been a legal weapon for almost 30 years in Ohio and as mentioned above no xbow organization in Ohio. Why because it takes work and effort.

Its a common tactic for the proponents of the cross bow to hijack the existing.

Will more members make OBA better?

Sometimes more is just more.

Brian P. - Actually the OBA has worked against the crossbow in the past. http://www.nabowhuntingcoalition.com/Letters/NABC_TWIMC_Crossbows.pdf

Meeting will be Aug. 16, 2008 at the State Shoot at Claylick Bowhunters following the shoot on Sat. approx 4:00 p.m.

Gentlemen, I was a member some years back and very much enjoyed the it. The thought was, mine included, crossbows were a bad thing. Now I understand the reason some prefer them. If I were to have to go to the crossbow to contenue hunting the archery season I would do it, but I would expect to not renew my membership. That was understood then, I don't know why that would have to change. I know men that love their crossbows and couldn't give a wit if OBA rules were against them. Most that use them, pardon me if I step on toes, wouldn't join the club anyway. Those of us that love our sport have a passion for it. That passion drives us to hunt as we can, be it traditional, compound, whatever. I bought a low poundage bow to stay vertical! I hope my long winded post will help us to understand, it is ok to want to keep the OBA rules toward the Trad and Compound realm. I love bow hunting as you all do. The OBA leaders will make the decission they feel necessery to keep the club alive and I wish you all well.

might as put in 3.5 cents worth.a big magority of the x-gun users are gun hunters.the x-bow just gives them more time to shoot at deer and .ive tried to convert x-bow users to regular archery,and its pretty hard to do.ive called several catalog s and placed my name on do not mail list.cabelas,bass pro,and buck masters organization wont get my money.i think the new fangled gadgets in the future will be the demise of bowhunting as we see it now.dan

No actually it was not a typo. I wish it had been. The Y was added to show that I believe some members wrongfully believe the OBA is their personal "good ol boy club". Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

As you requested, I am not the person that penned the statement in question. However, I do feel it is detrimental to the betterment of the OBA to continue down the same well-traveled, crossbow bashing road. We are not seeing growth nor are we reaching the potential I personally feel we can. I firmly believe we will be a more attractive organization without the constant bickering over this issue.

To those that would leave the organization if the amendment passes: why?

Would the OBA not be working to protect bowhunting? Would the OBA not be able to help with public archery ranges? Would the OBA not be able to help with Women in the Outdoors programs?

Would the OBA not be able to aggressively help with the Archery in Schools program?

Would the OBA not be able to help fund hunter defense funds?

Would the OBA not work on legislative matters?

Would the OBA suddenly not provide a network of generally like minded fellowship?

Or would it be because some slob might wonder into an OBA function carrying a crossbow, thus providing an opportunity for YOU to share your method of hunting with an individual who may not have had the good fortune to have a good mentor as you did?

Just curious. What is the reasoning?

It has been written "The current stance on crossbows within the OBA has been a main contributor for the steady decline of memberships over the past several years."

I have been around the OBA for a lot more years than most. I have seen hundreds of reason why "I won't join the OBA because"! If it's not the crossbow then 99% of the none joiners will find another reasons to "not join".

Well at least they would have to get creative and come up with another reason. Ted, vote for the amendment, I will personally sign 100 new members or renewals in twelve months......))Take the bet, I dare you.) If I cant do it, I will buy you a brand new key board to cuss me with.

Nice post Ted - and you wonder why the OBA has decline numbers.

If some of the OBA members would participate in meetings and shoots like they do on forums it would help the OBA.

Posting ridicule towards any fellow hunter is not the way to bring in more members.

The numbers speak for themselves - Take time to read these ACTUAL numbers of studies performed over the last 40 years or so.

http://www.ohiohuntclub.com/club/Stats.pdf http://www.ohiohuntclub.com/club/support.pdf

What it boils down to is the shear number of hunters during archery season has INCREASED and the same time SO HAS THE TOTAL NUMBER OF DAYS YOU CAN BOW HUNT AS WELL AS THE TOTAL NUMBER OF DEER YOU CAN HARVEST WITH A BOW. This is not by accident.

Isn't this the main reason why the OBA opposed the crossbow? Because it would "decimate the herd, reduce the number of deer, reduce the number of days in the field with a bow". But looking at the harvest data over the last 30 years proves that all those assumptions were and still are incorrect. Pay close attention to the numbers prior to 1976 - the good old days before the crossbow was legal. Anyone want to go back to those times? Less than 10,000 deer harvested total 30+ counties could not hunt deer at all Heck some season were just plain closed

I so glad you guys know me so well. Bash away. At least you're let some one alone. You just can not help getting personal can you.

Sorry Brock, I'm not a betting man.

Dang it Ted, this is a golden opportunity for you to be indirectly responsible for 100 new memberships!) That seems like a deal to me!

Brock don't wait on a silly bet. Sign away!

Hiller you certainly did not hurt my feelings. As for criticism. I had a life time and probaly some of your dumped on me by experts. No proble. Maybe if you walded a mile in my shoes or palyed the hand dealt me you would lose your "attitude". I don't think you rate a "dry behind the ear yet". No offense meant.

A previous posting stated that the majority of crossbow hunters were also gun hunters. I'd be willing to bet the numbers of bow hunters who also gun hunt is about the same too.

Anyone remember when Pope and Young changed their let off requirments? Some swore it would be the end of the organzation. Well they are stilling doing well and growing in membership.

Let's get the amendment finished, vote on it, and move on. I've just rejoined the OBA after being out for a number of years, mainly because of their crossbow stance. I've never used a crossbow, but hunt with several friends who do. We are all "bowhunters", contrary to what the NABC, P&Y and the PBS would like to convince you of otherwise. The NABC crossbow debates are ludicrous at best. I especially like the 90 yard accuracy with the crossbow!

Hey Brent,

What the heck is NABC? I've bow hunted for 40+ years and never heard of them.

Steve

Sean,

The OBA has worked to keep crossbows OUT OF THE GENERAL ARCHERY SEASON. That is vastly different from trying to do away with them. If the OBA does not recognize crossbows as bows (just like a gun not being considered a bow), why wouldnt they try to keep them out of the archery season? Seems pretty logical to me.

Brock, You ask why some of us would leave the organization if this passes. My reason would be simply that I joined the OBA because it is a BOWHUNTING organization. Not a crossbow hunting organization.

This whole argument boils down to the fact that some people still seem to think crossbow hunting and bowhunting are the same thing. They arent, and never will be the same.

This fall will be my 32nd season to hunt deer with a bow. I started with a compound and years later bought a crossbow. My theory was, "I hunt deer with everything else, why not a crossbow". Well, I carried it in the woods once, maybe twice, but it was readily apparent to me that it just wasnt the same thing as hunting with a vertical bow. The amount of movement required when game is in range, is vastly different with a vertical bow than with a crossbow. How anyone can say they are the same is a huge mystery to me. I went back to a compound and eventually to what most refer to as traditional equipment. As you can see, I have seen the sport from most, if not all, of the angles, so I feel quite content with my views on the subject.

As for the Pope and Young club doing well after selling out to the "industry", so be it. I have never understood the appeal of killing an animal, and then entering it in some record book. Is it to honor the animal? If so, why put the hunters name in? Is it to brag about what a great hunter someone is? If so, I understand the hunters name being included. I just dont get it, myself.

As far as I am concerned, the biggest threat to hunting as we know it, is the "industry" who tries to sell everyone "success in a bottle", and the constant bombardment of "horn porn" we see in magazines and on TV. Throw in leasing by "hunt clubs" and it is a wonder the sport still exists.

BP

The North American Bowhunting Coalition. They are the child of the P&Y and the PBS.

Wow, I'm impressed! Those are some of the finest bowhunting organizationa in the world! Looks like they came from all over the country to take part in this summit. Thank you sir, and again, I am totally impressed! Not that it has a stinking thing to do with crossbows in the OBA, but what the heck, who is keeping track of that.

But....being a member of PBS, I can assure you they did not start this, so you stand corrected on that! Actually, you can go to the bank on that one. They took part in it, thank goodness, but they did not start it.

OK, got to go clean my 30-06. Muzzle loader season is coming up!

Brock, I'm sure there are some members who wrongfully think of the OBA as their personal "good ole boys club", but I don't really know any of them, I don't think.

well, somebody wrote that paragraph. I'd like to find out who, and quiz them about the facts upon which they've based their statement because I think it is misleading. do you know who wrote it? I wholeheartedly agree that bashing crossbows does no good. it accomplishes nothing. on the other hand, I don't believe that embracing crossbows, or whatever else the state of Ohio deems legal archery equipment next week, is going to have the affect on the OBA that you all desire. I think the decline of the OBA has everything to do with bowhunter apathy and poor advertising, and next to nothing to do with their stance on the issue of crossbows. strictly my opinion.

as far as I know the OBA is already doing or has done all of these things you've listed without changing their constitution or broadening their equipment standards. I don't see the relevance.

it isn't my duty to speak up for anyone who would drop out of the OBA over this, but I guess the obvious answer is that they would no longer want to support an organization that promotes the use of crossbows in the general archery season. what sensible person spends money and time promoting something with which they totally disagree? kinda like the reason you claim people refuse to join, but in reverse.

your insinuation that I(or anyone else that you don't know personally) would somehow be put out by an oportunity to help a crossbow hunter expand their archery horizons is way outta line, Brock.

Maybe, just maybe, the members of the OBA don't want to have crossbow hunters in the organization because THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO. This whole kumbaya, everybody has to accept everybody mentality is a load of BS.

Those who stand up for nothing, fall for anything.

obca? hey I like that , I just got a new plains rifle. could y'all include me too ? n maybe a class for handguns , allow shotguns as well n the membership would skyrocket , I can't believe any real bowhunter would stay out because y'all don't allow primitive weapons other then archery equipment , I just moved back here from montana a while back , n find it hard to believe I am even seeing this argument about why something other then bows would be recognized by a bowhunting organization

It seems some folks that say they care about the OBA are out to kill it. We do not need another sportsman's club that all hunters want to join. We need to maintain the OBA as a BOW only organization. I could care less if someone gets their feelings hurt because the OBA does not recognize their crossbow as archery equipment!. We are not about crossbows. Let them take care of thier own. There are more crossbow hunters in the state than bowhunters any way. What is their problem? Lazy? Lack of dedication? I would like someone from the failed UBO to answer that question! We certainly do not need any more hunters using the "archery" season. Have you tried to get permission from a landowner lately? You are damn lucky if you own land or have a relative or friend that does. Any farm that allows bowhunting or crossbow hunting is full! At least in Knox, Delaware, and Licking counties. I have been an OBA member since 1977. If the club is killed by these so called supporters of the OBA, I will no longer be a member of the new club. I alredy belong to two conservation clubs. I do not care to be a member of a third. By the way. The list of supporters of the bowhunting summit is quite impressive. It looks like most of the country has not yet lost their mind!

I ran the bow shoots at Guernsey County Sportsmen for Conservation for about four years. In my second year I was pressured to allow crossbows. Since then if we get 10 crossbow shooters per year we're lucky. My own opinion and it's just that! is they use crossbows for ease of use so they don't have to practice so they are not going to put in the effort to walk a 30 or 35 target course.

Amen to that Danbow.

Bye to way enjoyed the trad shoot this past weekend.

I would imagine crossbows are not very fun to shoot at foam animals and that may have some bearing on the lack of interest as well.

I had a GREAT time shooting the trad class at the OBA shoot this past weekend. Perhaps someday, the OBA events will once again draw such large crowds that clubs will not wish to schedule shoots on weekends of the OBA events.

You pro choice people crack me up. Why don’t you come out of the closet and admit who you really are. Give me a break, don’t want to be seen as anti. It’s a “bow” hunting organization. Does it mean you are “anti” gun hunters just because you are a bow club? Do you really think hunters in Ohio are children and can’t understand the difference?

Hiller you’re a big baby, you can hunt with your dad anytime you want, or are you too selfish to take him small game hunting, or gun hunting, or bird hunting. Are you saying you just wouldn’t go hunting with your dad unless he had a x-gun in his hand during archery season. How pompous and short sighted of you.

Terry Williams wrote “it takes work and effort” BINGO, every see a x-gun organization show any of those two qualities? Nope, never. All they do is bribe and steal, never work for their own season, steal seasons that hard working men and women (bowhunters) fought for, bribe and pay off state officials, to force a weapon that a small minority wanted, into bow season.

Ted COB Young for president!!!!!!!

Hiller If you knew the organziation didn't allow crossbows, why did you join in the first place? That sounds kind of irresponsible to me. VERY akin to illegal aliens who come in uninvited making demands on an organization they have no legal rights to.

Hiller, how many times does your question have to be answered before you get it? Crossbows "ruin" archery season because most xshooters don't bother to practice shooting or scout an area for deer sign before they go out into the woods. As a consequence, stupid and or unethical shots are taken that unnecessarily wound an animal or are just plain dangerous to other hunters in the area. Every year there are news stories focusing on an animal that was shot by a "bow and arrow" as the newscasters describe it. Then a picture of the animal is shown on the screen and it is a bolt sticking out of the animal, not an actual arrow. I think Brock stated it as well as I could, "I would imagine crossbows are not very fun to shoot at foam animals..." Who needs to practice wounding foam targets? Wounding live animals is WAY more fun.

Those of you who support this issue seem to only be doing so for the sake of someone else, why can't they speak for themselves? Is it because they are not only uninterested in perfecting their skills, but also unable to exert the effort to organize themselves? At the annual meeting some one suggested the OBA needed to educate the public that crossbows are not guns. Why would anyone believe an instrument that has a stock, trigger, and scope NOT be a gun? Simply because of the string? I understand the necessity for some to use a crossbow for physical reasons, and I'm sure they are grateful to have the opportunity to continue hunting. Why not have the croosbow season included in gun season only. Seems a reasonable compromise to me. They simply do not belong in an archery season. Besides, Pope Urban II outlawed the use of crossbows in 1097...they were too easy to use and required no skill.

I joined the OBA to support the organization responsible for speaking out for BOWHUNTERS with the state legislature. The OBA once (and technically still does) oppose crossbows, but obviously failed to exert the necessary influence to prevent them from gaining entrance into archery season. Now it seems WE (the OBA) have also given into the pressure of industry and have chosen to attempt the restructuring of the constitution. I for one will not follow blindly, and will not support an organization that does not support me in this issue.

I do not live in your State and have no dog in this fight, but I feel the need to add my two cents anyway... If I were to move to Ohio and the OBA allowed X-bows, I would not join. I make it a point to join the local and State archery organization of every state I have moved to. It is high on my list of priorities. However, x-bows are not archery.

Like someone stated above, if being inclusive means opening up the archery organization to x-bows then what about gun hunters? They are still hunting and some of them may even be hunting during the archery season (poaching).

Hiller, if your father is unable to draw a bow most States make exceptions and allow those who are unable to draw a bow to use a crossbow.

The State I live in also allows crossbow during the archery season. If the Bowhunters of Wyoming were to switch their stance and welcome crossbows I would likely quit the organization.

For what it's worth...

Like Blake above, I am not an Ohio resident nor do I hunt in your state. I am however an active member of my own state bowhunting organization, an NABC rep for my organization, a P&Y member and a member of several other sportsmans and conservation organizations. I gun hunt and ML hunt. While I do not own a crossbow I support the right folks to hunt with them where legal IF it is in a season of thier own, just like a gun or ML season.

If OBA were to officially recognize crossbows it would signal a complete betrayal of trust to those that formed your organization many years ago. Someone above drew a very appropriate parallel to altering the US Constitution. Your Constitution and By-laws were formed by BOWhunters, NOT crossbow hunters. It's not as if crossbows are something new. They've benn around for centuries and this seperation of bows and crossbows has existed as long. Your organization was founded to represent bowhunters. If your founding members had intended to include crossbow hunters that would have been done so from the start. If the crossbow hunters want an organization of their own let them form one. Of course they could have (and should have) done that ever since crossbows have been legal in your state some 20+ years ago. Obviously that has not happened in all that time. I would think it an absolute disgrace to the bowhunting fraternity if OBA would now, after all these years, betray your founding principles and suddenly embrace crossbows.

My 2 cents for what it's worth.

Pro hunting organization????? What?? It’s a bow hunting organization, what don’t you get about that? How about guns, why not allow them during archery season, why not change the name of OBA to OB,X, G, ect, for Ohio bowhunter, x-bowhunter, gun hunter, etc hunter. Good golly Wally why can’t we all be friends, you shoot what you want I’ll shoot what I like. After all if it’s on my own 300 who should care if I use a grenade or a rock?

I stopped trying to have rational discussions with your ilk long ago. You liberal, enlightened, free thinking, can’t we all get along idiots think you have all the answers, and could care less about the future of archery season. All you think about is how you can save the world, as you see it, for everybody else. Hunting will be under attack, but your precious x-gun will not be the savior you think it is. First, most x-gunners as stated above are gun hunters and have no stake in bow season. Second the x-gun does not, here let me say it slowly so the enlightened ones can follow along, THE X-GUN DOES NOT, bring new hunters into the fold. It only moves hunters around, from gun to archery season. Take a look at the hunter numbers across the country, yeap still falling. Look at the states that have allowed the x-gun in the last few years, some are even loosing hunter numbers during archery season. There, a fact against the x-bow, it’s pushing hunters out of the field.

From the SUMMIT:

""A major issue addressed by the summit attendees was the use of crossbows during archery-only hunting seasons. It was immediately apparent that the attendees were unified as being strongly opposed to the use of crossbows in any bowhunting season. State and provincial representatives unanimously agreed that crossbows are not bows and should not be allowed in archery-only seasons.""

kinda says it all doesn't it:)

Sounds like the sleeping giant is awake.

The organization was formed by and for bowhunters disallowing crossbows. What's wrong with keeping it as it was originally formed and intended?

If I had a tennis club, should I allow ping-pong players in just because they hit a ball over a net?

Someone mentioned the founding fathers of the OBA having the intention of protecting bowhunting for bowhunters. That is true. However, at the recent OBA meeting, one of the founding members of the OBA was present and made an interesting statement. He said that when they formed the OBA and wrote the constitution, crossbows were not readily available. The only bows available were longbows and recurves, so the constitution was written to reflect those liimplements. He then stated that when crossbows became readily available, and included in the season, the OBA took a negative stance on them due to the possibility of them being used by poachers. The part I liked the best was when he stated, "That is just how it started, and I appreciate the work all of you are doing for the OBA". He is a level headed man and I got the impression he did not feel anyone was trying to "steal" the club he started.

Some of you have stated "Why not include guns?" as an attempt to show the folly of including crossbows into the OBA. I see your point in that they too are different from vertically held bows. However, the OBA is not perceived throughout Ohio as working against guns, it is perceived as working against crossbows. The purpose of the amendment is to eliminate that perception. Many of the bowhunters in Ohio want nothing to do with an organization that is perceived to be "anti" any other group of hunters. It is not so much an amendment to include crossbows as it is an amendment to put an end to the perception of the OBA working against fellow sportsmen.

For those of you that are not from Ohio or have not submitted your annual dues; you are right, you have no dog in this fight.

Now that is funny, it’s your side that keeps saying we need all the hunters we can get and the x-gun will bring in thousands of new hunters and keep the anti’s at bay. The folly of your reason is, NOW LET ME REPEAT SLOWLY, it does not increase the amount of new hunters. It only moves hunters from one season to the next, same hunter, different weapon. From state to state the dynamics will differ, some states, like Ohio will have a huge influx of hunters into the archery season that have no concern for archery season, only for “what can I take”. Other states might actually see a drop of hunters in archery season.

Perceived as anti? So what happens when the gun hunters see that the x-gun is being allowed during the rut, during the milder weather months, and they (they out number us you know) they want their piece of the pie too? Are you going to be anti gun hunter and say they can’t have there shot at those big rutting bucks?

This isn’t about Ohio, it’s about archery season, across the country, it’s about those that have fought hard for years to separate ourselves from the orange army. To have a place and time where we can practice our style of hunting without worry of who is around the next bend, and where that shot came from.

And why haven’t you answered the simple question of why isn’t there any state x-gun organizations, why isn’t there a ground swell of hunters demanding a x-gun season in every state? In every state where there is currently a push for the x-gun to be included in archery season, there is someone with money to gain standing behind it, the x-gun mfg.

Currently more then 50% of “bow” hunters in your state use a x-gun, and you say they will not take over the OBA. If there are that many x-gunners in your state why don’t they start their own org? Because they could care less about archery season, all they want is a easy way into the archery season without having to pay any dues.

Please don't say the xbowers are lazy when it comes to starting their own organization, they are "organizationally challenged".

Who allowed crossbows into the Ohio archery season?

Show me a state that has increasing hunter numbers due to including the crossbow. You cannot because there is no such thing. Every hunting state is losing hunters. Dan

It was interesting for me to read the constitutional change that the OBA commitee drafted concerning the crossbow. I read it for the first time last evening. I was unable to attend the meeting since I was up North on vacation. It's especially interesting since I was on that committee but new nothing about any rough draft or committee gathering to develop one. My only notification was about four months ago and I was and am willing to drive anywhere across the state to meet in committee with what I though were fellow committee members. I have never talked to or was never notified by the committee chair to discuss anything.

"The Ohio Division of Wildlife... The OBA fought against it, but the ODOW did what they wanted" This a very real part of my objection to the wording for the constitutional change. The proposal reads:

"A "bow" is defined as any legal archery equipment set forth by the Ohio Division of Wildlife that can be used during the archery only season"

The Division wanted the crossbow and the OBA was against them IN THE BOW SEASON! Not against handicapped hunters using them. The first year that was the only folks who could use them. The Division had it's way.

The Division asked the OBA what we felt about mechanical broadheads. We took it to the membership and the vote was overwhelming against them. The Division legalized them any way.

What are we to do down the road? Let the Division decide what is to be used and recognized in our organization. What's next? Do they decide who runs for office and who is in and who is out? WE continue\ to lose our freedoms by the bushel basket. You can't smoke where you want. You MUST ware a set belt! You MUST pay this permit and this fee. There is to much "government" interference now in my life.

The crossbow is a legal hunting instrument, the Division has said so! So be it but, there is always a but. I don't see them need four months to kill a deer unless handicapped or physically unable to pull a vertical bow.

And LostHawg if nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve. :^) I've had my turn in the barrel!

I feel as i do have a "dog" in this fight and as many have suggested every "bow hunter" does. I have been a member in the past and am in the process of joining.

I was notified by a friend/member of the attempt of the xbow faction to hijack OBA and wondered why this had not been brought to the attention of the general membership.

I believe if this happens OBA will self destruct, I urge "bow hunters" everywhere to bring your "dog" to this fight

Unbelievable.

Zbone, I am glad to see as a county rep you are on top of things. Like the fact that there is no vote at the next meeting, which will be the 16th after the shoot, around 4 p.m. I stated the time for you because you stated previously you had no idea when or where.....on your game, good work.

How can active members hijack there own club? We can't. This issue was brought up to the general membership at the annual membership meeting in February, good to see you concerned folks take SO much of your precious time to concern yourselves with the affairs of an organization you are SO involved with.

Since you concerned citizens seem to want to know but do are not involved with the OBA enough to know, I will tell you. At the meeting, after the Saturday shoot Aug 16, there will be a meeting in which the proposed amendment will be read to the attending membership. That is required before going to a vote. The ballots will be mailed out by the OBA to the membership, the members will have 45 days to return the ballots to the OBA.........then they are counted.......see how this works?

Zbone, thank you for calling me Dude. No one has called me that since I was in grade school, you make me feel young again.

Lost Hawg for vice president 8^).

Why doesn't the link to current officers work on the OBA website?

I long for the old days of our archery season before crossbows. There was actually solitude hunting on public lands. Lots of deer, lot's of silence, lots of memories of that.

Now you can't swing a dead cat without hitting some dude toting an xgun walking past you and blurting out "SEEN ANYTHING!!!!"

Now, COB, hold on just a minute. I never said prezzy dent of what!!

George, I'd gladly shadow COB. But, you'd have to be the exec VP.

I do think that Arkansas had an increase in the archery only season, but I think its like some have said, its just gun hunters extending their season. BUT, I know quite a few compound hunters that do the same, so I'm not going to hold that against them.

What is needed, NATIONWIDE, is some kind or kinds of incentives that will promote hunting. Right now, between the ARFers and hollywood, hunting is constantly shown in a backwoods, shoot 'em up negative light. Which is farther than far from factual.

Well, I don't have the answer, but I'm down here in Texas serving on our state org's council as a regional representative in an attempt to help where I can. We've constantly got the manufacturers coming at us with everything they've got trying to get the crossbow added. They got their foot in the door with the draw-loc and now they're pushing with all they've got. Problem is, for them, its all for the market.

I still say COB for president, but I ain't saying president of what. lol

The DOW says crossbows are legal, great. More power to them. We're talking about the OBA which does not include crossbows. We have members who use other weapons but still respect the OBA's standards as a longbow, recurve, and compound organization and they are welcome . but as a traditional archer I have no interest and am basicialy indifferent to game harvested by shotgun, muzzleloader, or crossbow. With a crossbow do you have trouble with the string slipping of the trigger mechinism? Our weapons have very little in common. Bowhunters who I approach about thr OBA have no problem when I tell them it,s a longbow, recurve, compound organization only. Crossbower's are the ones who need to get over it. they will never be accepted into the ranks of the serious archery community. It's all about our weapon of choice, our dedication to the challenge of it, and our love of hunting with it!

Brock you wrote "Unbelievable" Yes it really is! You also wrote and chastise Z about being active "How can active members hijack there own club"

Let ask you some questions. How long have these "active" members been active? Let answer the question. Not very d****d long have they. And the expressed reason for joining. Make the OBA better? In whose eyes. The short timers who those who have invested blood, sweat, time, hard word, and tears? They "hijack the organization by their very intent to join and subvert.

You know Brock I really wish you would put "ALL" your cards on the table!

Folks this is really not getting us any where. I have served on many constitutional committees and thank those who put in the effort but, yes there is always a but. I don't think the proposal is worded very good. Sorry mr. white, JMHO, Secondly I do not think it should have been permitted by the OBA officers. Sorry officers, JMHO again.

Fats in the fire and we'll just have to see who pops out!

Can someone give me the location of the shoot at Claylick on August 16th? I've never been to that range but will be coming from the north and need directions or at least an address. I don't want to miss the meeting, that I hear should take place about 4PM.

id like to see a count of dedicated bow hunters that only use a recurve,long bow,or compound to hunt with.no guns,or x-guns.ill be the first on the list.a pse or old jennings is all i use.thanks,dan

That'll be a short list.

Coyote, from the outside looking in, your last post had the most impact. Level headed thinking and the willingness to acknowledge the other legal harvest methods have a place. Though there may not be agreement on the crossbow in archery season, I respect all that have expressed their opinions and heart felt convictions. I must say IMHO that the OBA should keep itself in line with the vertical bow stance. It is an archery club, and one that I hope will not compromise her values, as so many others have. Good Luck and Happy Hunting

I am not a member. Probably should have joined years ago, just never got around to it. Since they claim this will bring them membership, I'll make this pledge... If the OBA gets some sense back and defeats this, I'll join and remain a member for life. Not only that, I'll bring at least 5 more memberships with me. If they pass it, I will never join... period. I will not support an organization willing to cuddle up with the very people numerous other bowhunting organizations across the country are fighting.

This attempt has nothing to do with Ohio hunters and nothing to do with improving the OBA. The obvious goal of this attempt at changing the by-laws is to create propoganda for use to legalize crossbows in other states. Crossbow sales are not going to improve in Ohio by changing the OBA. Membership in the OBA overall WILL NOT increase. Sure, there will be an initial surge of new members but that is only because the crossbow manufacturers will need to show a positive result. It would not surprise me in the least to see a certain manufacturer include an OBA membership with the purchase of a crossbow.

Crossbow users are rarely involved in any attempts at bettering bowhunting. Most (everyone of them that I know) readily admit they "don't have the time" to practice with a bow. How can you expect they will have time to be useful in a state bowhunting organization?

One more thing for bowhunters... Quit describing a bow as a "vertical bow". That term is propoganda created by crossbow manufacturers as a sleazy attempt to equalize their product in the eyes of politicians. A bow is a bow, whether you shoot it canted, vertical, horizontal, or inverted! A crossbow is not, and will never be, a bow.

ONly a stick and a string grantes some have bends at the top and bottom but still vertically and none have a site of any kind.

TED "COB" YOUNG We once had a large disagreement on this topic in which I belive "I WAS WRONG" Please except my Appology!!

Snydley!

Constitutions should be messed withat the drop of a hat!

Good Evening Bow Hunters, As usual I hear so much passion on this bowsite. I am not here this evening to defend the rights of the crossbow hunters or the self, long, recurve and compound hunters. I am here to defend the rights of every member of the OBA to have their voices heard, no matter what your choice of equipment might be. Those members who attended the annual meeting at Deer Creek, will remember that the meeting was taking a turn, that the membership and I did not want to hear again. It is way past time to step up and be an active member. Sean White stepped up and presented his thoughts, and the fight began. I asked that he or Brock Ratcliff step forward, put a proposal together, select or ask for volunteers and once and for all, submit that proposal to our Secretary. I know that there are two sides of the story, regarding the two members that were not active on the committee. I have spoken to these gentleman and they have explained to me that they felt there should have been a joint meeting to discuss this constitutional change. They were willing to drive to where ever for this meeting. The committee chairs have explained their side. It was unfortunate that John Hobbs and John Sharpe were unable to attend the Jamboree, due to other committments. When our secretary received the proposal, and it was then forwarded to all of us, it appeared that much of the documentation was received from the ODNR. Only one sentence was changed in the entire document and that was the description of a bow. We accepted the proposal to be read, and presented to membership. They have completed their task, and now it was time to complete ours. Therefore it was read at the Jamboree , a second reading will be at the State Shoot in August, and immediately following that shoot, a special mailing will be sent to every member with a ballot. They will be required to send that ballot back no later than 45 days from the date of the last reading. It will then be up to the membership to determine what they wish for their organization. I know that the long time OBA members are quite concerned about this, but everyone has a right to be heard. Now you have an obligation as members to return that ballot. I know that many of you have said should the crossbow issue pass, you are "history". My only response to that, is that you obviously have never believed in the work that your State organization has accomplished. I have been ridiculed for listening to the membership. As long as I am your President , I will continue to listen to all sides of every debate, remain neutral, and attempt to preserve the only bow hunting organization in the State of Ohio , who continues to fight for your hunting rights.

Thank you for your time this evening. Cheryl Leffman, President, OBA

Ed we both know it takes big mem to admit wrongness and apologize. We have all been there at one time or another. Time heals all wounds. What is past is past! Apology grateful accepted.

Cheryl,

Do I understand correctly that it will take a 2/3 vote of the total membership to change this?

I do not understand how including crossbows in the OBA is a representation of its members. It seems odd that a group who does not believe in the by-laws of the OBA can join the OBA and then cause the OBA to take a vote on whether it still believes in its own rules or not. How can such members remain in good standing?

Over 50% of the bow harvest is with crossbows in Ohio. This means the bowhunter (longbow, recurve, compound) is already the minority here in its own season. Who will represent the interest of bowhunters?

Just one more observation... People will speak the truth about themselves if they speak long enough. You only need to listen. You OBA members really need to listen to what and how those wanting to change your organization are speaking.

My membership check is in the mail. Do I get to vote?

Goose, the constitution reads: "A two-thirds majority of votes received is required for any changes or revisions." So you can certainly see why it is imperative for the membership to utilize their voting rights.

This amendment is to get rid of the negative stance on crossbows... no where does it say to include them in the OBA or add crossbows to the club... SOme of you need to read the amendment!!

I could tell you the sky is blue and you would still argue me... Read what is being said before you go on your rants...

And I'm still waiting for the reason crossbows wreck your bow season?? One of you says too many people are hunting and the next says crossbows are depleting the number of hunters... LOL

if the 600 members of the OBA do their duty and take the time to vote on something this pivotal, this initiave will go down by a landslide. that's a pretty big if, though. too few people give a damn about anything these days from which they don't get instant gratification. how long you gonna be a member after this proposal gets trounced, Hiller? Sean?