Contributors to this thread:
My Dad and I drew a 1st season 16A archery elk tag. I'm pretty excited! With my Dad getting older and the changes to the draw planned for nonresidents next year, I really want to make the most of this tag since I don't know if we'll ever get to hunt this unit together again. I was wondering if anyone has hunted this unit before.
A couple things I was wondering: - Are there any areas I should stay away from to avoid the crowds and outfitters?
- What have you done about water? This question is really applicable to most places in the southwest, not just this unit. We drew a Gila unit a couple years ago and I broke my filter trying to get water from muddy water tank. We had to pack in water from the truck 2 miles to our base camp after that - not fun.
- Is there anyone you'd reccomend to help us pack out an elk at a reasonable price? I don't mind doing the work, but given the limited amount of days to hunt, I'd rather not tire us out too much if we still have a chance to fill the other tag (very optimistic thinking, I know).
Thanks.
I also drew a 16A tag for the first season. I used to hunt it often, but I haven't been there for 6 years. There was a big fire there around Bear Wallow years ago, and I haven't seen what that looks like since.
Bear Wallow and Snow Lake used to be the popular areas and drew the most people. The biggest issue is to find water, especially water that doesn't have blinds and treestands all around. The country isn't rough at all, and holds lots of elk. Some years I'd see lots of monster bulls, other years less so. But I always saw more big bulls there than any other place. And ask the game warden where the hot spot is. They tell every camp the same thing. One year the hot spot was where I was hunting, and that night it was surrounded by 20 pickups.
Hunting the first season presents its own challenges. The big bulls usually don't bugle much, if at all. The smaller bulls do the talking, and the big ones just listen. I've often watched monster bulls listen to others bugling and thrash a tree with no answering bugle. Some years they're going nuts the first day, but usually not.
We get water in Reserve, and camp right next to the road. Packing in isn't necessary. I can't say about packers since I haven't been there in a while. The last bull I knocked down, I had some hunters in a camp nearby that helped me pack it out. Usually people will offer, especially if you offer in kind.
Good luck!
Mew'n the fire was the worst in the Iron creek, and Turkey Creek areas, to the South and east of Bear Wallow Mnt. Was in there Last year on the 3rd hunt and the area has made an awsome recovery from the fire. That area is still the popular area as everyone likes to hunt the Quaking Aspen area up to Corner Mt and so on. THere is water now available at the Snow Lake Camp ground. They have a faucet to fill containers there.
Good Luck Guys
if you have a filter, you can get water at willow creek as well.not sure about any faucets down there though. the stream water looks good enough to drink as is, but would definately filter anyway. you never know.i killed 2 elk in the same crossing in consecutive years there on bear wallow mtn.that was before the fire and i havnt been back since.
Swampman- Check with the gas station owners in the town of Reserve about packing out your elk. Had a little problem last year with my truck hanging off a small ledge ready to tip and they came and winched me out. Said they had 4 wheelers, horses and packs to get elk out. Sorry I can't remember the name of the station or their names as I was a little worked up. Good luck
Way overrated unit plan on hunting hard to kill a 300" bull. They are in the thick steep nasty stuff if you can find them that big too much pressure.
vmcfadden, Way over rated huh? And what do you compare this against, what other units makes this a over rated unit? I have hunted there several times, there are not monsters around every corner but obviously you didn't scout or pick the right area. I have seen many big bulls and lots of them right off the road.
This is a great hunt and even some of the named areas above I have hunted and done well. The Gila is HUGE, if you can't get away from people, well...
Swampman, This is a great tag to have and there is water USUALLY with in a mile of any direction you start (on normal years) been so dry all the tanks with water will be gold. I have had GREAT luck hunting wallows here, seams like bulls wallow more here. Good luck!
Vmcfadden obviously you are not that familiar with the unit. the trophy potential of this unit is high. The average bull in this unit is around 330 to 340. I personally saw at least 10 bulls last year that would push the 370 to 400 inch range. Yes the big ones are in the nasty rough stuff. they pick there cows up and move there for security. They did not get that big by being stupid. . PM sent back Swampman
Here is an overrated bull from 16A last year!
KY--what did that beast score??
Fine job, sir!
PSYOPS-It doesnt really matter. See the smile? Im still wearing it!
VERY NICE!!!!!!!!! KYELKAHOLIC that is what I am talking about. congratulations.
because this thread is debate free, all I can say is that vmcfadden fits into one of two categories:
1) Just likes to stir the pot
2) Should by 86'd from the NM forum
Either way, a picture is worth a thousand words. I think KYELKOHOLIC did a great job tellig the real story.
16a is one of the best units in the state. That being said, it is nothing like it once was. Let me put a challenge out there. Not trying to be cocky, just want things to change for the better. Can anybody post one bull over 380 out of 16a from last year. One will be fine. It is always someone who "sees" them and quesses them at 380, 400 etc. One bull over 380? Pics please. Look I do not doubt there are a handful of monster bulls but it used be common to pull 380 plus bulls out of that unit 15 plus years ago. Lots of 270-340 bulls which make it great for most hunters. The average mature bull I see harvested in 16a is around 285. Nice bull, Kyelkaholic. I am guessing 340ish. Above average for sure and yes, it does really matter to me.
Bullbreath, The point is the unit is NOT over rated and it is well above an average hunt to draw. I have never known anyone to say that even back when the 380" - 400" bulls were coming out of 16A like hot cakes. My grandfather Dick Groves killed a 387" in early 90's and it was damn near unheard of to kill a bull like that.
All I know is a I can assure you most people while on a BOWHUNT probably have not even seen more then 10 bulls over 380" on public land and I am one of them. Even for someone in a 10 year time period that would be great. Big bulls are smart and hard to kill as well all probably know. Finding them is the hardest part!
Good luck to all!
There has always been confusion on hunting an area like 16A. Most people expect to see monster bulls everywhere they go, and get disappointed when they only see a handful of small bulls and a few cows. They are there, you just have to know where to look or keep walking until you do find them.
I hunted there one year and saw 15 bulls that were at least 5x5's. There were 5 that were at least 340. I was calling them in every day. Every year I talked to guys - mostly out of state - that were mad because they couldn't find them and said the unit was overrated.
I was hunting no more than a mile from the main road. The really big ones are quiet early, and only get vocal during the peak of the rut. So if you're going to the bugles early, you won't see the really big boys. And I usually saw them without cows. They are in thick brush laying low until it's really time to fight for the cows.
The hard part is not shooting a smaller bugling bull. You have to pass on those for a bull that might not bugle at all during your hunt.
I certainly do not expect to see a monster bull around every corner. I have hunted the unit hard and have seen 300 and a few 340 class bulls, they are definitely there and a rare few over 350 are there. Again, anyone know of one person who harvested a bull over 380 in all the archery/rifle hunts combined last year in 16a? you can usually subtract about 30-50 inches off field judging by most hunters. My motivation is to see this unit actually produce what is believed to be there. We have units in Utah and Arizona that have taken over the lead. I want a few premier units in our state. 16a while definitely is a good unit, it is not a premier unit anymore although some refuse to open there eyes. I believe a 15% reduction in LO tags in all the gila units is needed. I personally believe the biggest damage to quality in the gila is LO tag abuse in unit 15, but that is another story. I also want to see rifle hunts pushed out of rut season a little more. We have got to get some bulls to live a little longer. I certainly respect others opinions and know there is some truth to your posts. I hope you respect my opinion and consider also.
Bull breath I agree i have hunted 16a And some lesser units in AZ quite alot and 16a isn't even close to them and i have been all over the unit. I hear 16d is much better.
I agree with you that the quality has gone down but seams like no one is happy with tags either way.
They don't get a tag or draw there is constant complaints about not enough tags.
Someone draws a hunt and complains cause it isn't is good as it was or they expected more.
Damned if you do and... Well you know the rest.
I would rather hunt sub par or down hill units and have a chance to hunt yearly verses killing a 360" + bull once in 10 years. JMO
I do agree the rifle deal is a bit much and the rifle hunts is just a slaughter house, especially in early to mid October.
As far as AZ hunts go... If you gave 40 tags in the Gila per bow hunt it would be ridiculous to but you have about as good of chance as drawing Big Horn.
I drew this sub par unit this year 3rd hunt and couldnt have been more happy. Was just as happy the three times in the past I have drawn it. I see plenty of bulls over 340 each year and know more than a few hunters who have taken them. But I'm also fine if most people think its not worth hunting....better my odds.
"I would rather hunt sub par or down hill units and have a chance to hunt yearly verses killing a 360" + bull"
There are plenty of units for this type. how about 3-4 units in the whole state where we sacrifice our need to get in the woods annually in the name of quality. There are plenty of units like 52,9,6a etc that will meet your expectation at least semi annually probably. I am not hunting this year. I could have probably drawn if I compromised but that is not me. I will skip next year if needed but I am a trophy hunter. Even the Valle Vidal is in decline. I think the game and fish needs to bring premier trophy hunting back. The gila units are the ones that are not far from getting back to where they once were. There needs to be a little more sacrifice from all stake holders in a very few select units. I for one will free up my choices for 52,9,6a etc for your benefit and at the potential cost of me missing another year so I can hunt a premier unit. That is just me.
Thanks for the info guys. That's an awesome bull KYELKAHOLIC - that'll give me something to dream about in the coming weeks.
2 bulls from 16 A on last years 3rd archery hunt.
I am ordering a new tape measure. I do not see either of them going over 330. The thirds are weak on the left. Nice bulls though. I will post my 320 when I get it back next week from the taxidermy. I think it will compete with both of those. Is the the right one a 5x5? Nice mass if so.
6X6 bull shot on the night of the 3rd day
Now that is the kind of bull that gets the heart beating (: Hope to see a greater inventory of those 350-400 class bulls in our state again. NICE, what year was that taken?
Am I crazy or is the 370" bull the only one that is over 320"
Am I crazy or is the 370" bull the only one that is over 320"
I'm not an expert scorer, so to me a bull is as big as the hunter who harvested it says it is. The very first elk I killed with a bow was a cow. At 15 years old, it was the greatest accomplishment I had ever achieved. That cow scored close to 400" as far as I was concerned. LOL
For me, when I look at pics of bowhunters with their bulls I'm only measuring how many inches across their face the smile stretches. Beyond that measurement, the number of inches are not in any way related to the size of the trophy.
I do offer some pretty hefty "cheater" points for how many miles the animal had to be packed out! Congrats to all the hunters proudly displaying their pics.
Bronc@work you are indeed crazy! Lol p they are all 320" and above including the 5x5!I have seen a hand full of 5x5's that hit that mark and that sure looks like one.
Well put there arctichill
Just got back from setting up my trailer down in 16A. Lots of water everywhere and lots of green grass. I did see 35 elk yesterday. 1 nice bull, one small bull and lots of cows. The disappointing part was I only saw 1 calf. The cows looked healthy. The elk were in 2 herd of around 10, and the rest were all 2 or 3 together.
Anybody know if the bear hunt will go on during the archery hunts? People were already streaming in with trailers today.
And I did not hear any bugling. The locals I talked to said they hadn't heard any bugling either.
You have to call the G&F to verify if the zone you are hunting has had its quota filled. This is actually something that one would have to do daily since the number of kills detirmines if the zone stays open or not. You never know with bugling, Ive heard screaming and then next few days nothing. Its 16A can't go wrong.
All beautiful bulls and better yet great smiles. I hunted 16A last year and loved it. Got me a 343 1/8 bull and am still smiling. Great area, good people down there in Reserve. Hope to hunt it again someday.
What areas should I check out for my 16a rifle hunt? Hunt starts. 10/13/18. I am excited to hunt NM for the first time. I love bowhunting and have harvested 375+ inch bulls but with all the challenges facing a post rut, five day hunt I have absolutely no problem lowering my expectations but will work hard to find a good one. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Man you drew it as a nr ? That's crazy awesome luck !
Splitlimb I think my odds were .9% or some ridiculous low number. I couldn’t be more excited!
If you live in NM and you ever want to know what its like to hunt the Gila for elk just watch you tube. You can have the joy of watching all the non residents film their experiences there while you sit tagless again. Random drawing my fat foot.
I'd take any of the Gila units over any other units in the state. Even if they are "overrated". I'll go to Colorado otc if I want to hunt lesser average bulls that most other NM units hold ;)
NR pool sucks ! I'm a resident and I feel for the NR guys! Don't get me wrong I'll take my 84% haha but to imply they get all the tags is crazy..
Shaft2Long, you are crazy if you think the NRs have it good in the Gila. Yes, many of the YouTube vids are shot by NRs. However, I would bet most are shot by NRs who buy landowner tags which you have just as much an opportunity to as they do. Now before you start "but you can't make that much $ living in NM," understand I don't make enough $ where I live to buy a landowner tag either. (That issue isn't NR versus R, its the screwed up landowner tag system.) When a NR hits the lottery and draws a tag from the unguided pool, if he/she has any clue at all, they thank God above for the opportunity and do everything they can to make the most of it. The reason you have a hard time drawing a gila tag is the same reason everyone has a hard time drawing it. Its the basic principle of supply and demand. However, as a resident, you have a much, much better chance at drawing tags than we do. Ugh! You won the tag grab 8-10 years ago when you cut the guided pool down from 12% to 10% and the unguided pool down from 10% to 6% to increase your odds of drawing by a minuscule amount in most units while making it an absolute lottery hit for most NRs, yet you still whine. That makes those of us who grew up hunting in NM but moved away who now must absolutely hit the lottery to even hunt lower tier units absolutely crazy. I hit the lottery this year and drew my 3rd choice which is a fun unit but it isn't the Gila and is only better than going OTC in CO because of the access and knowing I will be competing with a specific # of other hunters and not an unmanaged # that may show up in a given year.
FWIW, the original bill was to duplicate a system like AZ. 90-10 split and cut out the outfitter "welfare". But of course the outfitters showed up in droves claiming it would cost jobs and blah blah.
One legislator even proposed dropping the NR pool down to 3%. Resident orgs opposed it.
I am very aware of the original bill. Bottom line, however, it was and is a tag grab. It isn't about "what is right or wrong" but how can I get more tags for myself and my people as is evidenced by Shaft2Long's post about the NR's taking all the tags away from the Rs. Why would 90/10 be any more right than 84/10/6 or 78/12/10? It isn't. It isn't any more wrong either. However, it is those with the power (residents because their votes equals $ for politicians) lobbying to get what they want. Same with outfitters lobbying to keep "their share" of the tags. I'm all for residents having some advantage. (Though that same principle would require that someone who lives in Reserve should have a significant advantage over someone who lives in Albuquerque because after all they live in the same county, pay taxes to grade the roads and live in an area where it is more difficult to make enough to buy a landowner tag.)
However, cutting NRs down to 6% unless you bribe your way into a 10% pool is crap. Yes I'm still bitter about being shut out of my home state and honey holes I worked hard to discover and at times even build. I understand how and why it happened, but I can't just keep my mouth shut when some entitled resident spews his ignorance and blames NRs for not being able to draw a Gila tag. You can't draw a Gila tag every year because even if they were only available to residents, there would still be many more applicants than tags available and when you really crunch the numbers the NR tags don't change the Rs percentage chances of drawing by much at all. However, the cuts the NRs took changed our odds significantly.
It's the crappy system we have here. G&F wasn't going to fix the problem so legislative intervention was really the only way to go.
The NMWF did a Foya request and found (IIRC) that 80% of LO tags were sold to NR's. So if you look at things in totality, residents were not getting even close to what the legislature originally intended.
If we could get rid of the LO tags and put a biologically determined number of tags in the public draw, I'd be happy to raise the NR quota. More tags for us average Joes, resident or not.
Not trying to start an argument but residents of Reserve don't have the tax basis to support basic public works. That's why their elected officials hit up Santa Fe for appropriations from General Fund, which is supported by the residents of populated areas like Abq, SF and Cruces.
“The NMWF did a Foya request and found (IIRC) that 80% of LO tags were sold to NR's. So if you look at things in totality, residents were not getting even close to what the legislature originally intended.”
You are never going to get rid of land owner tags. There is to of an strong argument with all the huge sections of privately owned land to include landlocked public land.
I would suggest that NM residents try to fix the shortfalls of the current system in which I still think is one of the better systems that maintain both quality and quantity.
Yes but even with 80% of landowner tags going to NRs, Residents still get 84% of tags available to the "common person." Just because residents won't pay for landowner tags doesn't mean anything in the debate of how many draw tags go to NRs. That is a rich hunter versus normal person argument. I believe it is important to keep them separate otherwise the one who gets screwed is the normal NR who has to work extra hard just to be able to pay the higher NR rate. If anything a Resident actually has a stronger buying position for landowner tags because he/she is $500 ahead to begin with. Now getting tags transferred from the landowner system to the public system benefits all "common person" hunters. As for residents of Reserve not being able to support the basic public works, actually the same can be said of NM in general. If it weren't for federal funds keeping the forests open, fighting fires, taking care of improvements, etc. NM would be in a world of hurt so really it is the same argument.
Ok, let's just do a 50/50 split. Will that make everyone happy? Oh wait, I forgot about the landowner tags, and the outfitter tags. What was I thinking? ;)
Darrell, you are moving the goalpost here. NF and BLM are not NM property, it's their job to put out fires and making improvements. "Rich hunter vs normal" should not be an argument. Anyone, regardless to income should have an opportunity. Take LO tags out and put them into the general draw where "theoretically" you would have a better chance.
BTW, New Mexico G&F is one of the only departments here that are totally self sufficient. They don't need tax dollar appropriations to operate. They just need to present a budget to the legislature for approval to allocate funds from the Game Fund.
Love you trophyhill, you get it!
This.. If it weren't for federal funds keeping the forests open, fighting fires, taking care of improvements, etc
It applies to all states, not just NM
I agree with Rocky's reply!
I just realized this thread was started in 2011.
However I’m standing by what I said. I’m sure there was a lot of disagreement with what I said but the posts were so long I just didn’t feel like reading them.
I just realized this thread was started in 2011.
However I’m standing by what I said. I’m sure there was a lot of disagreement with what I said but the posts were so long I just didn’t feel like reading them.
Here are my 2 cents on all this that I have been reading. The big question is WHY! Why does the LO base have any more rights in the Draw? Take away the LO base and make it right by all who put in for these tags. Gives the NR a little better chance and put them all on the same page sort of speak. The ordinary Joe putting in for a NR tag in most situations it too damn expensive and they cannot afford to put in for a LO tag. The cost is outrages. LO are making a killing as it is charging anywhere from 6500.00 to 10,000.00 and up for a guided trip on that property as it is. then on top of that picking up all the LO clients they can for x amount of Dollars is absolutely crazy. when does the dollar amount in all these cases become enough. It's always about the Dollar and nothing else. Look what an NR pays for a tag in NM and look what they pay for a Regular License and that goes to the state if not drawn. So, with the NR percentages being so low in the draw because of the low percentages taken away from the DIY hunter those percentages drop to .5 percent up to maybe just maybe 3 percent in some units. It's crazy. So, the Whiners stop and think of how if you were in those situations how much whining you would have. No one should complain about the low percents the NR has period. If you want to complain then complain to the dept or your system that come up with these idiot ideas in the first place. Take away the LO base and make a difference to all. 90% 10% across the board. How about 80% 20 % across the board now listen to the complaints?
