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MB conservation and water stewardship has been so focused on pushing their narrow minded views on ethics (baiting, foodplots)that they've forgotten what they're here for. There's a bunch of old cronies that sit in meetings and decide what their view of hunting in this province should be and use "science" to justify the policies that come from them......rather than dealing with the very real and present threats to our wildlife populations.

So we need to push for a "leveling" of the playing field now that its out that meties and natives can bait legally. All that "science based disease management" (what ever that means) has gone to hell with this going on. MB conservation need to focus those resources to other much more urgent issues. We need to contact the minister of conservation, all our wildlife clubs and local MLA's. We need to start to literally raise hell.

MB conservation needs to quite micro managing those of us that follow the rules and deal with the REAL problems. Its time to bring MB conservation and water stewardship back to reality!!!!!

Boy I cant wait for the backlash on this one.. Bring it on.

There's two solutions, either legalize it or completely ban it for all users groups. We need to unite and push this subject. I'm going to the next local game and fish meeting and putting a resolution on the table to open this up for a discussion at the provincial convention. I recommend everyone else that can do the same.

I've done a ton of research into baiting/food plots and how its linked to disease. I will post a thread in the next few days about this. To put it simply, we've been lied to for many years guys and its time to call MB conservation on it.

Property borders should void the 800 meter rule. If every 4th river lot had an owner feeding deer then no-one could hunt the entire Red River. Tell me what's fair about that. Better yet...someone across the river feeds deer...your guilty!!!

Sure, in court you will likely get off a charge if you were 2 properties over, but the stress involved and the $20,000 spent to defend yourself sucks!

Feeding deer for the purpose of hunting will never be taken away from 1st nations people or those with harvester cards. Feeding deer for viewing by residents or anti's will never be taken away either. Neither will it for the purpose of drawing deer away from hunters by antis. As much as I dislike it, the only fair option is to allow everyone to feed deer regardless of intentions.

I too had no idea how much feeding programs drew the deer away from where I hunted until last year when it seemed hopeless to even see a mature deer. I heard of a cottage for sale in a small sub-division and thought I'd check it out as the price was right. I was very surprised to find that the sub-division had 6 fifteen hundred pound bags of birdseed for cottagers to watch the deer. Just like Tim encountered, I couldn't buy a deer as hard as I tried. Really though...how am I gonna compete with 9000 lbs of feed? I abandoned that area after 3 weeks of hard hunting to shoot a little 2 1/2 year old 20miles away. The effort I put in made the young deer a trophy but was sub par for Manitoba.

If a total baiting and feeding ban can be placed around Riding Mountain why can't it be done in all of southern manitoba. Especially around winnipeg.

Canadian tire flyer was selling deer bait. What kind of bs is that?

What a game warden told me at my game and fish meeting was that any hunter who knows that he's hunting within 1/2 mile of a bait or feeder is breaking the law. So I asked him what if the hunter doesn't know, what then? All he said was that the hunter would need to know and that the warden would have to prove that he knows.

Iasked him if the guy feeding deer would get a ticket for feeding. He said that right now around Winnipeg, a guy wouldn't get a ticket. He would get ordered to stop feeding. If the doesn't stop feeding then he can get charged for not stopping the feeding.

Don't know if that makes sense but thats what he told me anyways. I know that we need to stand up to the goverment on this.

For instance, the cabin owners I talked about in a previous post have no intention to shoot deer or even draw the deer away from where I hunt. Their innocent actions of feeding made my 25 trips out hunting, the fuel and costs involved as well as the time away from my family....a total waste of time! You'd think hunting 800 meters away would still work....NOPE! It was rare to see a deer outside of the surrounding 500 meters of the 9000 lbs of feed.

I'd be interested in Ryan's research around how feeding doesn't really spread disease? Is that how we've been lied to?

Are treaties and metis allowed to bait around Riding MOuntain? Page 21 of the hunting guide says that its illegal to feed deer, moose and elk along the west side of Manitoba. Why can't that be done all over?

I havent had any problems yet with baiting or metis and I hunt crown land in the south east. But I know that I wouldnt hesitate to get the bush cops involved if some greedy bass*** was messing up my hunting.

Didn't somebody start a thread on cleaning up the area northest of winnipeg? Anybody familiar with whats going on there? Are the wardens doing anything over there? Haven't heard from the guys who posted that.

I just got back from 7 days hunting in saskatchewan where I hunted over bait. I can honestly say it was a great experience. I never saw a shooter buck but had many encounters. There was a ton of other guys in the same area baiting. Seemed like the bucks were skipping from bait to bait, much the same as in a farm/food source situation.

I don't go looking for bait or feed piles. Please read what the guide (which is a summary of the law) states on p. 21, "It is illegal to: Hunt within 800 metres of bait placed for the PURPOSES of hunting in all areas of Manitoba." If the feed (non-hunters) or bait( hunters) is placed for non-hunting purposes hunt away. So if I found that someone was feeding deer as a leisure activity on adjacent property I am will continue to hunt my property, because the feed was placed for non-hunting PURPOSES.

Bottom line is this..... if you're within 800m of a pile of deer food, the NRO can (if he so desires) charge you! We need this type of stuff gone and clearer definitions of laws and regulations. It would make things easier on everyone...us, and law enforcers.

How about the whole food plot issue of it being lumped in as baiting? There's a perfect reason why the ancient regulations need changing!

In reality most NRO's are pretty good guys without intentions of convicting guys like those here. That said, the current regs make a hunter constantly wonder if he's breaking a law. What gets me is that just when you feel you're doing everything by the book....BANG...you're charged!

I see two different topics here ... Baiting and Metis hunting rights,

Will baiting wipe out a deer herd ... Not likely !! But the guy shooting multiple deer over that pile will. If you look at the big picture I think this whole métis harvester cards is a disaster waiting to happen, the baiting is the small piece of the puzzle here in our Province.

What I don't get is in 2012 conservation restricts deer harvests to 1 per hunter due to low deer numbers.... But in the same year they issue more harvestor cards to Metis hunters. Metis harvestor cards allow multiple big game animals to be harvested per person ... Does that make sense ???

Rather than post on here our frustrations lets come up with a plan to get our rights back in line !!!

Anyone have a plan or agenda to unite ...

Open this topic up for discussion with my parent game+fish (wawanessa) at the next meeting.

Talk with two contacts that are involved with other clubs and make them aware (Brandon+Tiger hills).

Emails sent to the minister of conservation, Manitoba wildlife federation and Manitoba conservation.

I think we would gain more momentum if we talk to and make everyone we know and make them aware.

The squeaky wheel get the grease guys. Let's raise hell!!!!

Open this topic up for discussion with my parent game+fish (wawanessa) at the next meeting.

Talk with two contacts that are involved with other clubs and make them aware (Brandon+Tiger hills).

Emails sent to the minister of conservation, Manitoba wildlife federation and Manitoba conservation.

I think we would gain more momentum if we talk to and make everyone we know and make them aware.

The squeaky wheel get the grease guys. Let's raise hell!!!!

I sit on the fence with the baiting issue. Baiting does happen in Sask and they seem to be making out ok with it. Here in MB baiting isn't allowed but everyone knows that it does take place. I can agree with the idea that everyone should be on a level playing field, Native, Metis, and the rest of us. There is no way CO's are going to be able to enforce every rule break pertaining to baiting.

On the other hand is baiting really fair chase?? I don't really think so. It is using feed to draw them in. Not much different than a pea field though. It's a tough ball of wax to sort through for sure....

I guess by allowing baiting you'd allow hunters the choice to decide for themselves whether or not they wanted to bait or not.

Please don't even get me started on this subject. I have vented until I can't talk anymore. What nobody is saying is that i honestly believe the proportion of bowhunters that DON'T bait is smaller than those that do. I know a guy who bought the bordering piece I have hunted for the past 10 years and enjoyed great success on. Well his dad let it slip that yes there is a monster bait pile, and no I have not seen a single deer over the 4 solid days of hunting in that spot. I honestly could NOT believe it. This is a piece I have literally done AMAZING on and it sucks crap for me now. I moved on to an entirely different area I just have to get further away I can't stand these moron hunters and yes that is what you get around Birds Hill Park.

I started the thread about poaching earlier and Andre the CO has been asking me questions but what can I tell him? Hey I heard this family friend is baiting over there on his own land go give the 80 acres a walkthough? Right... I don't think he has the rights to go walking through there on a whim does he? And is it worth it to badmouth a family friend? I don't want any enemies out there.. I have enough equipment stolen without having people that i know of hating me.

I don't know I just wish it was legal for everyone and I will back that train, then everyone can decide for themselves whether they think it is ethical or not. Honestly it wouldn't make a big difference to the bowzones, cause if you talk to your local taxidermist he'll laugh at how many deer come in with oats and molasses in their fricking mouths...

So you an count me in to back it I guess is what I'm getting at.

Additionally, it does not help to denigrate a people group for certain rights that the government granted them. I think that most on here and other Manitoba hunters are starving for quality hunting opportunities. So we should be promoting sound game management practice and quality hunting opportunities (i.e. reinstitute baiting).

If we want to undertake something like this the first thing we need is someone who knows a little about the ins and outs of government and whoever the heck it is we'd be contacting for this sort of thing. Someone needs to take the lead. Nothing worse than a herd without a leader. (unless you're talking elk, than I don't really mind if they're a little stupid)

This meeting place would be on Gateway Rd in East Kildonan if that suits. I don't think we'd need that many people so much as the right people willing to follow it through. Most likely looking at a project that could last years if I was to venture a guess.

Listen, most NRO's are good guys. But they have bosses to answer to and its really tough to go against policy. They cut us all breaks, but a guy is in trouble if someone in that department decides you're a "bad" guy lol. I'm speaking from experience here, trust me. So we need to nip this problematic double standard in the bud right now!

This might make things easy ... On December 12 the Seven Oaks Game & Fish is having their monthly meeting and the topic of discussion is the new metis harvestor license issues.

It might be a perfect opportunity to voice concerns and support all hunters ... Sink or swim fellas !!

Location: legion hall at corner of Main / Harford (downstairs) Time: 7:00 pm Date: December 12, 2012 (Wednesday)

If your not a member then I think it's a $2 drop in fee ... It's a great club ;) stop by !!!!!

Cheers

Darren

Darren

Wild animals have been placed here for us to use...being at the top of the food chain! Having regulations in place to control how much game is taken, and what time of year is best to harvest game, are very essential. That said, we need to get away from how "privileged" we are, and more into how our rights have been taken away. Chances of getting our rights back....NONE.... but let's stop the privilege stuff.

Unfortunately, the govt. and resources are motivated by $$$. Think how much more $$$ would be brought into the province if feeding deer for hunting purposes was legalized like Sask. Hunters would flock here to hunt with outfitters who could actually give the hunters a chance (for once) at harvesting a deer. I've guided plenty of deer hunters...and it's tough! Not only could outfitters charge more $$$ but all the tags would get sold every year due to success rates soaring. It wouldn't affect locals as there are already limited non-resident tags, but would increase industry rurally as well as put more $$ is resources pocket. Again...I'm really not a fan of feeding programs but am sharing the things govt. and resources need to hear.

Sorry for the rant...just some ideas...Ry

I'm super busy at work trying to at least free up my weekends cause its kind of the rut.... And I need to kill a nonbaited, nonlighted, nonroadhunted buck. Best of luck to the rest of you that also need to fill your tags!

I'm thinking Saturday is going to be a perfect weather candidate for the heater body suit!!!

It's a learned escape and avoidance technique, the deer you hunt have.

Now what happened with the signing of the Treaties and the Residential School systems (which saw our people abused verbally, mentally, physically, emotionally, and sexually by White Priests and Nuns), is a whole other topic, but when it comes to harvesting rights and all of this nonsense that is being pursued here, I feel it is my duty to advocate and speak up on the behalf of our people. I hear a lot of people on this thread mention what they feel is their rights and some of it is understandable. Especially if you are uneducated in your own Countries truth and history. I usually don't reply to these types of threads, in the past I have learned to hold my tongue and accept peoples ignorance. It usually results in more bashing of our people by Non Aboriginals anyway. But this is a hunting site full of outdoorsmen who I assume have some sort of intelligence and humility to just listen and maybe learn. But then again there is some certain people on this thread who run their own Taxidermy business that make statements such as "natives will and always will come first in this province" and "I wonder if they will have a baiting seminar at the Festival De Voyager this winter" which is just plain disrespectful and ignorant especially coming from a so called outdoorsmen/business owner. Give your head a shake. As for taking your business and family to another province, please do. Our province can do without another ignorant, racist white man who will probably raise his children on the same grounds. It would also open more opportunities for the two up and coming Aboriginal Taxidermists that I know of.

Now back to business here. This thread started out on concerns of baiting laws and it has led to attacks on Metis hunters and Treaty hunters. With my previous statements and facts, I am sure there is going to be a lot of comments and more attacks on Aboriginal People feel free to bring them on we've heard them all anyway. But before you all get defensive and start firing back, do your research then decide what kind of people you want to be. If after knowing that you belong to a country that tried to wipe out a race of beautiful people by colonization. Taking away their sacred land, infesting blankets with small pox to wipe out the indian race, imprisoning them for practicing their spirituality, taking away their children putting them into residential schools where they beaten if they spoke their language and sexually assaulted by the priests and nuns. After all of this has been done the Government of Canada offers an apology after over 100 years and a few thousand dollars. People wonder why our people are suffering look at what has been done to us. Now we are left with our reserves on the crappiest places of the province, half of them flood every year, some of them don't have running water, and some are not even accessible by vehicle. Just for one moment all of you non Aboriginals think. What if a government went into your Country, Ukraine, Germany, France, wherever it is you may originate from. Now Imagine being told you can't speak Ukrainian, or you cant live that way, you gotta live this way or you get stoned or go to jail. Then imagine they take your precious little children make them speak a foreign language, beat them, rape them, then send back home an expect them to live a normal life. This may be harsh and something a lot of people don't care to hear but this is our harsh reality that we live with. Yes We do have our rights here in manitoba and a lot people may not like it, but like I mentioned earlier it does nothing to justify what was been done.

You all can go ahead and have your little garage room meetings to bitch and complain how unfair you think life is. But remember there is more important things in life to ponder on. Focus on being good conservationists and continue to walk on the land in a gentle way. Humans are human and will make mistakes. But understand Hunting, Fishing, Trapping are OUR RIGHTS and YOUR PRIVILEGE. It doesn't mean both sides our going to respect and not abuse these rights either. But hopefully there can be some understanding and leading by example. In all my years hunting and living off the land Ive met many individuals - Non Aboriginals who've always had something negative to say toward our people and our rights, and I've respected their opinions and held my tongue. Today I speak up for once. I promise that I will take this further to my government and leaders and make them aware of all of your ignorant and selfish intentions. Also in all my years and journeys despite everything that has happened to our people, i have never once in my life heard any of my people once say anything negative about non aboriginal hunters.

I hear you, but you need to hear me. For me this isn't a race issue. I could care less what the color of the skin is. I could get my metis status but refuse to use a flawed system (harvester cards) that promotes a sense of entitlement in SOME, not all.

There's bad guys in every group, the native who shot a cow moose right out from under my camp in the Duck mountains this past fall even with a hunting ban in place, the metis who showed up at the local meat plant with FOUR ELK AND SIX DEER last january....and openly admitted it way more than he needed, and the white guy who fills his wifes, kids, and neighbors tag every fall. All these people have a misplaced sense of entitlement and I dislike them all equally.

But as a licensed hunter I've been told I can't bait, or even plant food for the animals I want to hunt and have been given rationales to as why by the department that my license money funds. Now that department has said its ok for status hunters to do so? This policy promotes a double standard that only SOLIDIFIES the hatred some feel. This is one policy where the licensed hunter can feel like we're playing on a "level" playing ground. I know that's all I want.

You bring up all the social injustices your people have endured.....and I feel your pain more than you know. I can't tell you what or why I do because its work related and therefore confidential. But "my" people (I'm half ukrainian) also endured the same thing in their home country, then again here in canada. Look it up if you feel so inclined to do so. Genocide, intentional starvation at the hands of the russians, then internment by the Canadian government. Add in that ukrainian settlers often got some of the worst land "given" to them. So what I'm saying is we all get crapped on, its up to us to work through it and move past it, not the governments. Using past events as a rational for bad behavior only incites more hatred from others. I understand this takes time though and some people need to be patient and feel some compassion.

We live in 2012, not 1912. Many treaties where drafted when wildlife could sustain a high level of sustinace harvest. But modern reality is there's more people of all colors using a dwindling resource. I personally need wild meat to live on for health reasons. So I feel hunting the animals that I look after on my land is my RIGHT, not privilege. Now its time we ALL work towards positive, modern wildlife management. I think that's the intention of this "group" North@Hunter.

Finally, I apologize if any of my previous comments made you feel threatened, it was never my intent.

Ryan

Wow! Gotta say..."very nicely written post"! Some very sound arguments and very true information you brought to the table. That said, also some very disturbing and insulting words.

"Non Aboriginal so called hunters"....really...did you actually say that? We should really get together and discuss animal behaviour, travel patterns, growth cycles, and pursuit techniques. Then we could compare equipment used for hunting and abilities. I not only think, but know, that you'd be very surprised about the majority of vocal guys here, and have a new appreciation for us "so called hunters". You may surprise me/us and leave us understanding your words, but also may find yourself feeling like a "so called hunter".

I have nothing but respect for the traditional hunting ways of Canada's Native peoples. I fully understand that the brokenness of the same people has much to do with white settlers. That was a very long time ago, and plenty of our countries money is poured into that horrible mistake and wrongdoing. The issue being argued here has nothing to do with taking away Native rights....no-one here wants that!

"What kind of people do we want to be?" I think that's why we're all here discussing this issue. We all want something better for us and our children and the generations to come. That's why all of us "so called hunters" are role modelling how to handle issues that are dear to our hearts. Role modelling and "showing" our children rather than "telling" our children is the way to a healthier Canada.

I've already gone on too long here. Gotta go sharpen broad heads and shoot stickbows with the kids. I hope you have the same plans!

Ryan

Like I said before, whats done is done for this year. Lets enjoy the rest of the season, doing what we love to do, and what ever equipment we love to do it with. We will put all our heads together after the new year, and see what we can come up with. I set everything up with Manitoba Conservation, and the ABAM for a meeting when we are ready. Shoot strait !!!!

Hunters and fishermen and even trappers have legal right to hunt, fish and trap. Its not a privilege. You should talk to that NR guy again and tell him to look up his own laws.

When did I ever make a racial remark towards aboriginals. I have many friends and family members that are aboriginal, I have helped aboriginal organization on different subjects towards hunting. And I have mentored a young aboriginal, "Louis" for the past 10 years, and he took his first deer with a longbow at 15 years old with me. And I have to say,I am proud of him, because he will be a doctor in 2 years. I have a good customer from Fort Alex. His young boy is really interested in longbows. So when they were here in the winter to pick up their antlers, I took him and his boy downstairs and showed them my longbow collection. Then I said to his son, pick one, and its yours. So don't tread on me. I'm sorry your still stuck in the past.

The topic here is poor wildlife management. I never said we should take the aboriginal Rights away. It would just be great if we could work together.

Anyways, I was talking this over with my dad, and he mentioned one very good point. Food for thought if we are not able to get as far as we hope.

As for a plan : If someone who has their own hunting land is charged with hunting over a bait that has been placed by a metis or status indian near the area they are hunting we take it to court. When it is fought in the PUBLIC eye and it is obvious that there is a basic difference between rights and the way it takes away a our way of life (Because YES we have rights too) things get done a lot quicker. You can't tell me a judge could convict the guy. If he is not convicted a law MUST be changed. Also, we would NEVER want to take away rights from our metis and status brothers. What is the only reasonable option left?

Enable baiting for all - because the reasons against are obviously wrong and a double standard anyway. I could be a little over simplistic on this one. I also say we can save this option because I know that there isn't a single guy on here that wants to volunteer to be charged with a hunting infraction. That is why I say it is food for thought. Every once in a while I get so upset that catch me on the right day it gets easier to volunteer...

Also, a person is innocent until proven guilty. So like everything else that winds up in the courts if it takes a while you are still allowed to hunt and all that until someone decides you are not allowed to. I don't even know what the penalty is - it might be a fine I have no clue. Anyways we can look into that too if conservation is at the meeting we can ask them. If the punishment does not take away our right to hunt I'm sure we'd have volunteers myself among them.

Anyways... Food for Thought. Man I really wish I didn't have to work this week...