Baiting up for vote in 2015
Virginia
Got my truck inspected and heard there are 2 things up for a vote this year; no trespass for dog retrieval and baiting. Anyone else hear of these? I did some searching and did find the study in the attached link.
As for baiting, I am neutral on it. I hunt Ohio on a somewhat regular basis and tried to hunt over bait a few times. I didn't like it since the deer seemed really nervous and there are way too many eyes. Plus I never had a mature buck come into a feeder during the day ... just does and spikes. I prefer to set up in funnels or other transition areas way back off of the feeders.
I know that my local chapter of the VBA was asked their opinion on baiting by the DGIF, as were a lot of hunting orgs, and most said they were against it.
One comment in the link covers one of my issues with it. "In the Coastal Plain of South Carolina an average of 1,200 pounds of corn was provided for each deer Also, I have just returned from a non-commercial pig hunt on a plantation in the low country of SC. A hunt club leases it for deer season and I found the club's stand placements to be questionable and many totally relied on feeders placed where it was easier to shoot versus where a deer would likely travel. I have also hunted over a corn pile in NC and found no deer tracks, with most of the corn being toted off by coons and 'posums.
Wow, that sounds like a lot of corn for each deer. The herd in Ohio seems healthy and they have been baiting a long time now, so not sure about the negative aspects outlined in the study.
In Ohio, I never saw a mature buck at a feeder in the daytime; even on camera they mostly came in at night. But on Pat's KS hunts, they seem to relate the bait pile a lot better for hunting.
I always found it interesting to see a pallet full of deer corn at Wal-Mart and Southern States in Oct and Nov. Are all those hunters stocking up and heading to NC or OH?
The whole copy and paste didn't work quite right. The comment from the report was "In the Coastal Plain of South Carolina an average of 1,200 pounds of corn was provided for each deer reported killed. At $8 a bushel, this translat ed into an estimated $170 per deer killed over bait (SC 2013)."
I have seen those full pallets of deer corn at Wally World too, but I would say the majority of it are people that are local and are using it and stocking it up right here in VA.... People feed and bait year round it seems like here in the New River and Roanoke Valleys, they seem to not care at all if it is illegal or not until they get caught
Some CPO's stake out the stores and observe those that are carrying bags of deer feed during the deer feeding blackout period.
I would agree with that. I have a friend that works in the sporting goods section of our local Wally World. He has told me on different occasions that the conservation officer has approached him and asked if he could possibly get names of individuals that buy bulk, 3 to 5 or 8 bags or more of deer corn.... could he be wanting to do a possible stake out maybe of these individuals ???.... lol
Interesting. The report was negative and had a recommendation of no. So if it comes up to a vote and passes, then there is probably tax money to be made. If it was legal, how much more corn would be sold?
Kinda like maryjane in CO. Controversial decision for sure. Have not heard any horror stories about it so far and nothing and reducing drug crime, but the politicians are digging the tax revenue.
I don't think baiting would make that much of a difference. It's nice for people to have choiced, just like Sunday hunting. All I would like to see is maybe a shorter rifle season and a 2 deer limit to take some pressure off the herd (rural counties only, cities and urban area can stay the same).
It appears to me that the bill is dead. It is noted as "01/28/15 House: Subcommittee recommends passing by indefinitely by voice vote." I believe this means that they're not even going to discuss it.
I grew up in Va. I moved to NC where bait is legal. I return every year to Va to hunt. I rarely hunt in NC.
In my opinion baiting takes the "hunting" out of the game. If it were legal as it is in NC then all your neighbors will begin baiting resulting in you baiting to simply keep up with your neighbors. You will be forced to spend lots of money on bait.
Then you will progress to no longer "hunting" and instead haphazardly dumping a bag of corn out and staring at an unnatural yellow blanket .
Since I no longer get a vote. I am posting this to encourage you guys to NEVER let your legislators ruin what you have.
though I do think baiting for wild hog/black bear, during the black bear archery-only season, with certain controls and limits, might be something to look at
Pretty sure it's already legal to bait hogs....Am I wrong?
no, not legal to bait hogs in Virginia, at least not during hunting season for deer/bear/turkey etc.
Right, but what about the rest of the year?
talk to your local Game Warden, it's illegal to feed bear, year-around, so you'll need to dance around that issue.
Feeding deer is (I believe) legal Jan-September... hogs aren't a game animal so baiting/feeding isn't a direct violation, but anything that can be construed as feeding/baiting other, game species might get you tickets. I am not a Game Warden or a lawyer so I am not gonna interpret "their" codes.
since anything I m aware of that will attract a hog, or that a feral hog will eat, will also attract, and be eaten by, a black bear, I am not sure how you could defend hog baiting, in any areas which black bear frequent, which today is anywhere in the State of Virginia.
Unlawful to Feed Bear It shall be unlawful for anyone, including (but not limited to) private citizens, homeowners associations, corporations, or govern ment entities to place, distribute, or allow the placement of food, minerals, carrion, trash, or similar substances to feed or attract bear. Nor, upon notification by Department personnel, shall anyone continue to place, distribute or allow the placement of any food, mineral, carrion, trash or similar substances for any purpose if the placement of these materials results in the presence of any bears. After such notification, such person shall be in violation of the law if the placing, distribution, or presence of such food, minerals, carrion, trash or similar substances continues.
In Idaho I bait bears with sweet COB. So I know they love corn. According to that you cannot feed any animals in VA because bears will literally eat anything. I guess once they show up then you would have to stop. I was going to put some beaver carcasses out this winter for coyotes from my trapline, but since a friend of mine on FaceBook just posted a bear in the snow in his backyard, I'll have to rethink that as well..
If I may expound on my bear baiting idea:
Background is,
1)Western Virginia has a centuries-old tradition of hound hunting bear.
2) Bear populations are on the rise statewide and very strong in the Western part of the State
3)Success rates for bear hound hunters with tracking collars, radios, and 4WD vehicles are very high.
4) Success rates for bow hunters via tree stand, ground, and spot and stalk are basically a matter of blind luck, even in high bear population areas. A few are killed by deer hunters but very few.
Here is my "brainstorm": I propose an approach similar to this:
In "no hound" areas (mostly State Game Lands but may also include private lands as well) allow a certain number of baited bear stand locations, which must be: 1) registered with DGIF, with a specific GPS location, and responsibility assigned to one person, who is a Virginia licensed hunter with a bear bait tag. 2) baited with materials which are not toxic to game, not likely to attract deer, 3)placed in such a way that access to smaller animals is restricted (ie bait barrels, pits with weighted cover etc. 4)Clearly marked with a tag giving the responsible person's name, address, and phone number.
5) Limit baited stand tags to one per customer, and once a hunter has killed and checked a bear under the plan, not allow hunter to purchase a bear bait tag for a period (say 2 years, three years, 5 years)
Charge a reasonable fee, say $150, per tag, to defray the cost of additional policing by conservation officers.
I like the idea, but some of it is way too restrictive, IMHO. No problem with requiring a baiting permit. No problem restricting it to certain areas, they do not need to know the GPS coordinates. Idaho gives each bait permittee 3 bands which must be clearly displayed at their bait sites. No problem with only allowing one bait site per permit. I have all kinds of trail camera photos of deer at bear bait sites even when not using attractant they would even consider eating. I think it's curiosity. Bait barrels do not restrict smaller animals, seen plenty of pine martens, rabbits, squirrels, coons on bait sites. Even if your bait is contained inside the barrel, first time a bear visits there is bait all over the place, they are mesy eaters. Clearly marked with the permit number, should be no reason John Q public should have access to my name number and address. With my permit number displayed any Law Enforcement Offical can find out whose bait site it is.
Couple of other things I would require is no plastic allowed at the site, such as food wrappers and plastic bags. All bait site's have to be returned to normal once baiting is done, back tot he way they were before the site was established.
Machias, I agree. My idea is to make the idea "palatable" to voters, other hunters (houndsmen) and DGIF, and address some concerns of same.
Concerns are including but not limited to:
1) Former abuses by houndsmen, of baiting sites which are subsequently used for houd release to "start" a "hot track" (allowing baited stands in no-hound areas would negate this)
2)GPS co-ordinates would allow enforcement personnel to easily locate and monitor bait sites to determine than legal bait types and methods are in use and that no one other than a bait-tag hunter is using the baited site, etc.
3) I realize the limitation of bait barrels, I've hunted over them in Canada, but there are some concerns with attracting other critters that need to be at least "lip-service" addressed if we have any hope of gaining baiting as a bear hunting technique.
If the barrels are anchored and covered, it'll keep everything but large raccoons out at least until the bear "hits" and after that we can hope there won't be a lot of material left unless the barrel is "over baited"
4) Agreed on the address # but it's "boilerplate" in our trapping regs now and beaureaucrats love "boilerplate". Might be able to initiate a change in both practices by suggesting the individual's "VA number" (unique Virginia license number) be used in lieu of, or as an option to, the name and address...good point thare
On the GPS coordinates, I am not sure I would want DGIF folks trapsing around my bait site, stinking it up.
tony, once again agreed, but it's better than not HAVING a bait site.
You definately got a point Fuzzy.
As I see it, maybe baiting for bear in the Spring only, when deer season is not in.
Say, spring baiting, before and after Turkey Season ?
That would keep the stinky CPO smell out of your well prepared bait site.
Is this a good alternative ?
I'm going to be running a couple of baits this spring out in Idaho. Looking forward to sitting on some baits and watching some bears!!
sounds great :-) anything that gets me a chance to have a chance at an archery bear in ole Virginny ;)
if y'all want to submit a list of suggested rules for such an archery only spring bear season, I would be happy compile them, to "pitch" it to DGIF
Thanks!!!
Here's my list:
1. Bait permit by drawing only, set a fee to apply and then a fee for the permit. (They love to make some money.)
2. Certain counties only.
3. No bait may be contained within paper, plastic, glass, metal, wood, or other nonbiodegradable materials, except that a single metal container with a maximum size of 55 gallons may be used if securely attached at the bait site. No bait may be contained in any excavated hole greater than 4 feet in diameter.
4. All bait containers and materials must be removed, and all excavations refilled, no later than 7 days after the close of spring season.
5. No parts of animals or fish that are currently classified as game animals or game fish in Virginia may be used as bait. This includes game animals and fish that come from the wild and commercial domestic sources (i.e., pen-raised game birds/animals or hatchery-raised game fish).
6. The skin must be removed from any mammal parts or carcasses used as bait.
7.No person shall use salt in any form (liquid or solid) for bait.
8. Location: No bait site may be located within 200 feet of any water (lake, pond, reservoir, or year-round free-flowing stream or spring), or within 200 yards of any maintained trail or any road.
9. No bait site may be located within one-half mile of any designated campground or picnic area, administrative site, or dwelling.
10. All bait sites must be visibly marked at the nearest tree or on the bait container using a tag supplied by Fish and Game.
Half mile of a dwelling? Good luck!
Bandicooter, I have lots of places where you can set up > 1 mile from nearest residence. You need to go (south) west, young man ;)
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wmas/maps/bigsurvey.pdf
one example
another example, but this one does allow hounds on bear
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wmas/maps/highland.pdf
1/2 a mile is only 880 yards. It's a safety issue. No reason to start a problem where one does not exist. You start feeding bears near homes and you'll have it shut down in no time when they remove the bait and they then head towards the homes.
the half mile requirement would be a good argument for the GPS co-ordinates. DGIF could verify from the office if it meets standoffs...
How far can one go into the woods? Halfway; then you're going out of the woods.
Related to an earlier discussion concerning baiting hogs. This is directly from the Virginia Fish and Game site. I just found it:
What are the seasons and regulations for feral hogs? Do I need a license or special permit?
Since feral hogs are considered a nuisance species, there is a continuous open season with no bag limit. Feral hogs can be killed at night and over bait, although extreme caution should be exercised when doing so to ensure compliance with other laws, regulations and local ordinances.
Right, that "extreme care" pretty much rules it out, in my book, as feeding bear is illegal, and Feeding Deer is illegal September to Feb.
If you can find something that'll draw hogs that bear won't eat, you might be ok, but what would that be?
I don't think they are referring to the placement of bait. I believe they are talking about caliber and shooting distances etc. Otherwise baiting for deer from March to Aug would also be illegal and we know it's not.
it is as soon as a bear hits the corn (or other food)
and where we have hogs in Va, you put out any feed, and a bear will hit before the hogs do, I'll bet you a HOT Krispy Kreme Donut.
I will bet you another one, I can find you a Virginia CO/Game Warden who WILL ticket you, for being within 100 yards of any food with a bear track or scat near it, with a weapon.
Don't get me wrong, I WANT to bait for hog, so damn bad I am almost peeing myself thinking about it... I wouldn't kill a bear illegally for anything, I have passed LEGAL bear b/c they didn't fit my idea of how I wanted to take a bear...I just can't stand the fine.... I just can't
"and where we have hogs in Va, you put out any feed, and a bear will hit before the hogs do, I'll bet you a HOT Krispy Kreme Donut."
You owe me a HOT Krispy Kreme Donut. :o)
lol..any time buddy and will buy ya a cuppa coffee to go with ;)
I have to say that using the HOT donut as hog bait MIGHT be cheating though :)
:o) I'm REALLY hoping to be able to share a harvest photo with you tomorrow or the next day. But I have 8 good sized pigs with 8 to 10 piglets coming in 8 out of the last 10 nights. Heading out shortly for an all night sit.
Hey, this thread has been going on for 3 months now, and youse guys have not called each other bad names yet.
What's a matter with youse guys?? Have you forgotten Internet Blogging Rule No. 1 - go ugly early !!!
I have to fix this thread immediately: Fuzzy and Machias, you two are &#())%%^ and @$(^^$$* hunters !
;^)
Tony you ole @#$%%-maggot, you just hadda take it to the mud din't ya? LOL
The trouble with disagreeing with somebody, is when you find out you're wrong and have to eat your words, nasty words are, well, nasty ;)
Two REALLY small pigs killed last night. VERY frustrated. Had 20+ pigs in last night, several really nice sized hogs. I'll post a photo when I get home from work. Plus the details of the hunt. Went to bed mad and work up mad. :o)
yum! I wouldn't be mad with THOSE in the smoker!
Well here's what happened last few days. Re-baited on Weds. Prior to that we had 5 nice sized hogs and about 8 or so piglets coming in 8 out of 10 nights. Re-baited Weds and hung stands. Nothing came in Weds and Thursday night. We have a wireless trail camera. So we thought maybe the batteries were dead. Decided to hunt Friday night. I drove down a bit early because I was hoping all the bait was gone and would need to re-bait. Nope, camera was working fine and nothing had come in. Decided not to hunt until they returned. Saturday they returned. They have been coming in earlier and earlier every night that they do come in. Originally they were hitting it between 0300 and 0500. Saturday they hit the bait at 2130. Went down last night. Other guy I'm baiting with asked if he could bring a friend. I had a bad feeling, but sure go ahead. We get into the stand and all situated by 2030. We go over shooting scenarios. I'm told I'm lowering my light a little too fast to slow down. Ok, 2058 holy crap here a huge sounder comes in 20+ pigs several really nice sized hogs and several piglets. Once they get on the bait, lights on and we start to lower them and the pigs bolt. Everyone remains quiet and within 15-20 seconds they all come back in. Lights on and lower and we are going to shoot on 3. 1...2...BOOM. Guy with the shotgun shoots just as I get 2 night hogs in my scope. Never even get the crosshairs settled. Friend also shoots a second after the first guy. 2 piglets killed and nothing else. Guy says oops I may have shot a tad early. You think! I knew better than have three guys sitting in stands 10 feet apart trying to time a shot in the dark. I knew before hand it was not going to work and I was right. Then the icing on the cake. I figure ok, I put my trail camera out on Weds so I should have some great shots, it's 10 feet from all the action. I get home this morning at 0030 and find that the idiot who put the camera up on Wed did not slide the on switch past the IR Aim. ZERO photos. Here's a couple of the wireless photos, not great quality. I'm starting to think there is 2 different sounders, because the group last night was a LOT bigger then what we have been getting on camera before last night.
no wonder you aren't mad at me...I seem like a cool dude compared to Mr "premature e-porkulation" ;)
LOL
No reason to be mad at you, your just looking out for me and I appreciate that!
:) what part of Virginia are you hunting in? (you can PM if you like) I am in Bland County and we have few pigs, and MANY bears
Culpepper County Have never seen sign of any bears on the three properties I have seen the hog sign on.
I kinda thought so. I am in Bear City here. Never killed one. I am some hunter, huh?
I got you beat for Virginia's worst hunter, Fuzzy.
I have never killed a Turkey. Never. Anywhere. No kidding.
Hell, during Turkey Season, I am blackballed by all the grocery stores, and they won't even let me buy a Butterball until season is over.
lol@ Tony. Come to Bland County this fall and I will guide you on one.
Appreciate the invite, Fuzzy. If I ever find the time to get out your way, I will give you a call.
Look what FINALLY showed up at my new bait. Got him coming in twice, both times all by himself. :o)
The rest finally showed up!!
Good god they are driving me nuts!!! Last night I had about 20 to 25 pigs come into the bait site at 11pm. I thought for sure I was going to finally let the bow eat some pork! They came into 15 to 20 yards. So close I could clearly hear one scratching his side on a tree for about a minute and on shake his head and I could hear his ears flopping back and forth. Then they walked on by the bait site. I have about a 100 photos from the night before since they were on the bait for over an hour. I also underdressed and dang near shivered my fillings out.
Ya know, what you need is a machine gun permit.
An M60 tripod mounted with a transversing arm, and you would devastate them.
No kidding!! Actually I like the claymore idea a lot!
Check out how close to having a litter this sow is.
Look at the hair on this dude!
If you need any help.... lol
Oh I need a lot of help!! Last Friday I got into my stand at 1930. I have a nice red LED light hanging over the bait. Not too bright but bright enough to see my lighted sight pins. 2220 I can hear them coming, soft grunts and little squeals, they walk right past the bait, about 20 yards out. Wind was perfect. No idea why they didn't come into the bait. I waited until they came back. At 0210 I can hear them coming. From 0210 until 0245 I literally had pigs all around me. they did not come into the bait. I finally got down at 0400 and made it home at 0505.
wow. you have a LOT of pigs!
I've decided to move the whole bait site to a better area instead of trying to force them into such a small area. I have found a spot they are rooting after they go past my bait site. Much more open and I should be able to remain undetected better and have more shot options.
It's all on hold though until I get back at the end of May. Headed to Idaho to hunt some bruins!!
