Mathews Inc.
Changing broadheads, what should I pick?
Contributors to this thread:
bas 07-Oct-15
pav 07-Oct-15
NY Bowman 07-Oct-15
bas 07-Oct-15
varmint101 07-Oct-15
pav 07-Oct-15
bas 07-Oct-15
Purdue 09-Oct-15
bas 10-Oct-15
bas 10-Oct-15
Purdue 10-Oct-15
pav 13-Oct-15
320 bull 14-Oct-15
BuckSlayer 18-Oct-15
ducksoup 29-Oct-15
hogthief 30-Nov-15
Hotcornbread 05-Dec-15
INbowdude 10-Dec-15
Jim 25-Jan-16
Russ Koon 13-Oct-16
patience2spare 18-Oct-16
VTslinger 22-Oct-16
From: bas
Paul, you will love this post. I shot a doe last Saturday morning at 11 yds broadside using the Rage 125 grain 2 blade and did not find her after tracking her about a 1/4 mile. I have had some success with the Rage in the past but I have only gotten one clean pass through out of about a dozen deer shot. On all that I shot, I have only found about half of them. That's not good numbers and although not all the shots were the greatest, most were. On this particular doe, the angle was steep since I was 25 foot up in a tree. I hit her behind the shoulder and on my side of her spine, which should have resulted in at least a one lung hit. The arrow did not pass through and was still in her as she left with the majority of my shaft sticking out. I gave her over two hours and started tracking. Following her trail more by instinct than sign, I found the arrow 60 yds into tracking. From there it was pin drops and high smears on leaves until we ran out of sign in a thicket. I was not happy to say the least. Shot placement seemed fine so I am blaming it on the broadhead (whether right or wrong). I shoot a Mathews Outback with a 67lb draw 27" arrow and I always check the sharpness of my broadheads before season. All that said, I am looking to switch broadheads. I am leaning towards the Montec G5 Carbon Steel 100 grain that my wife shoots through her low poundage bow to create a better chance of a pass through. Any suggestions? Ok, Paul, you now have the right to say "I told you so", lol.

From: pav
Momma always said...."If you don't have anything nice to say...."

Seriously though...sorry for the tough experiences.

BIG Montec G5 fan here....but I shoot the 125gr stainless. Never shot the carbon steel versions. Often considered trying some VPA broadheads, but then figure if ain't broke....

I'm shooting a Mathews Drenalin LD @ 65lbs with a 29" arrow and the last two "big" animals I've arrowed (moose and elk) were pass through arrows that kept on going. Keep in mind, my arrows are pushing 500 they pack some momentum.

I know alot of folks like to shoot light arrow setups for speed/flat trajectories....but the sacrifice is momentum. A bowhunting mentor of mine once put it this way.... If a Volkswagon hits a brick wall at 60mph and a dump truck hits a brick wall at 50mph...which one travels further after impact? Made sense to me...

Guess what I'm saying is....weigh your arrows in addition to the broadhead considerations. For your setup, I'd be shooting well over 400 total grains on my hunting arrows.

From: NY Bowman
Paul told you so! :)

Mechanical by there very design have the opportunity to fail. Fixed heads do not. I love the Snuffer and Woodsman at 125 gr. Granted I shoot a slow longbow but rarely is it not a pass through. I think the Montec G5 is probably a good choice. I like the 3 blade head as opposed to the two blades.

From: bas
I shoot a Beman ICS Hunter 400 arrow at 8.4 gpi and 27.5" long equating to 231 grains. Sounds like I should go with the 125 grain to make sure I am closer to the 400 grain mark (356 grains total not counting the nock, fletching, and insert weight). Awesome advice. It verifies that I am finally on the right Thanks.

From: varmint101
So far I've liked the big mechanicals on the two turkeys I've taken this year, but I am leery of using them on deer still. I really like the VPA 3 blade heads myself. So easy to sharpen, fly well out to where I shoot, and made in Indiana! They do not slow down going through deer. Well, as long as you stay off the shoulder. Hopefully I won't find out how they work on those anytime soon. Use the vented 100 out of my Hoyt and use the big 250gr. 1-1/4" on my recurve (along with Simmons Tiger Sharks depending on arrow). Here is where I got my VPA's

From: pav

You should shoot some 125's before committing. I think you should be fine given the length of your arrows, but it would be good to test them first. I have the 125's, stop by and fling a few.

From: bas
Sounds good Paul. I will definitely take you up on that. Last night I shot the montec 100 grain cs that my wife shoots and they shoot awesome. The broadhead was sticking about 6" out the back of my block target and they were hitting right on out to 50 yds.

From: Purdue
PAV's dump truck vs VW annology is right on. It should be, the dump truck in his example has over 3 times the KE as the VW. Of course it would do more damage to the wall. Also, the VW is hardly build as rugged as a dump truck. It's an annology that at first glance seems to make a valid point, but is actually a HIGHLY flawed comparison. If the VW was going 110 mph and built as rugged as the truck, the damage would be about equal. By definition equal KE produces equal results.

Your main problem is the cut diameter and flimsy blades of the Rage. Arrow weight certainly does bring some advantages to penetration, but the benefits are minimal. The 125 grain fixed broadhead PAV recommends will not gain you any measurable penetration advantage due to its weight over a 100 grain head, but you will have a stronger head and less cut diameter resistance.

I like the Steel Force Phathead because of its .080" thick blades and small 1" cut diameter of either their 100 or 145 grain heads. Most any good fixed head should fix your problem.

Also remember that animal movement during penetration has the the same negative effect on penetration as an out of tune bow. A quiet bow and using only two blades can help with animal movement.

From: bas

bas's embedded Photo
bas's embedded Photo
Love the screen name Purdue as I am a huge Boilermaker fan. But I am still trying to figure out your post. I think you are partially agreeing with pav but your wording is a little confusing. Point to be taken is that I definitely need to be using a fixed blade. As of right now I have switched to the Montecs. Thanks for all the advice! Attached is my view this morning. Mornings are usually slow this time of year but I need a little treestand therapy. Good luck to all hunting this year!

From: bas

From: Purdue
You are right, I am not very good at explaining myself.

Looks like you have a great spot. Good luck.

From: pav
Brent, if your current arrows will handle the 125's, I think it is a step in the right direction. When the time comes to buy new arrows, I would recommend a heavier shaft too. Try to get that total arrow weight up to 450gr or more.

I lost faith in KE when it comes to bowhunting a long time ago. Used to shoot a lightweight setup (390gr) with a KE value north of 80. Today, I shoot a 490gr setup with a KE value in the mid 70s. Absolutely no comparison between those two arrows when it comes to penetration on big game animals. In my experience, the heavier arrow is far superior.

From: 320 bull
Personally I like a heavy arrow setup. Great penetration and they shoot better for me. Take a look at vantage point archery. I switched from the montecs just because they looked so sexy to me and I am not disapointed. 150 non vented 3 blade for me on a 300 FMJ with luminocks.

From: BuckSlayer
I've always used the montec's cs fixed blades. Was talked into trying the toxics this year. Had a beautiful shot on a big doe from 40 yards and got very little penetration. FYI I'm shooting 70# with a 29" draw. Have always had pass throughs. Went and had bow checked as I was afraid something was wrong and it checked out fine. Back to the basic fixed blade for me.... Last time I'll fall for a gimmic. Think the toxic just has too much surface area hitting for longer shots.

From: ducksoup
I SHOT GRIZZLYSTICKS , best dam arrow I ever shot through my recurves, don't shot traduitional any longer but you can nt go wrong with them

From: hogthief
sharp ones.

From: Hotcornbread
Out of my compound, I shoot 100 grain magnus buzzcuts - great penetration & blood. They shoot awesome - perfectly straight. Killed lots of deer with'em and never had any problems.

On my longbow, I prefer grizzly single bevel heads in 185 grains. They're mean heads and are super easy to get dangerously sharp. My longbow is 75 lb. @ 27" - Hickory selfbow. Oxford cedar shafts - not sure what they weigh but they shoot straight and consistent.

From: INbowdude
I shoot Magnus 125 grains, Buzzcuts and Black Hornets. Big Magnus fan and COC heads.

BAS, I shoot the same arrows.

Best of luck on you choice.

From: Jim
I have been bowhunting since 1971 with both traditional equipment and compounds. My first choice for broad heads is Thunderheads in a 100 or a 125 grain or a Black Diamond Zwickey. Used a 28 1/2" 2016 with a 125 Zwickey out of my 46# longbow to harvest a buck and a doe and a 27" 2018 with a 100 grain Thunderhead out of a 57# PSE Stinger to harvest another buck and doe. Both heads gave ample blood trails and quick recovery on all 4 deer. Jim

From: Russ Koon
Tried several over the years, mostly in practice and BH shoots, and a few different ones when hunting.

My favorite is the Thunderhead 125. Most durable, easiest to disassemble to sharpen the blades and reassemble. Always have flown very well for me. Always have given very good penetration and blood trails.

Most impressive demonstration of penetration I ever personally experienced was on a small buck I got an unexpected shot at while walking in to my evening stand. I hurried the shot and messed it up, hitting my sleeve with the string, and the impact was to the hip of the broadside buck, just above the joint, right into the heaviest portion of the pelvic girdle. He trotted off about fifty yards, stopped, swayed and went down! When I processed him, I discovered that the BH had gone completely through the near side of the pelvic girdle at its thickest point, severed the femoral artery, and buried itself to the back edge of the blades in the bone of the opposite side!

I was shooting 70# and a 585 grain 2219 aluminum back then, which undoubtedly helped. The local range where we shot winter 3D indoors had to redo their small and medium size target bases when my buddy and I began shooting there, as we kept knocking the targets over with every hit, delaying the shooting until they walked out and sat them back upright. Those big logs did have some impact!

I am a huge fan of arrows in the 450 to 500gr range tipped with a 125gr BH. I have had great success with Shuttle-T's, VPA's, Thunderheads (back in the day) and Rocket Steelheads. If I were going to shoot any mechanical broadhead it would be a Steelhead 125. A similar designed proven mechanical is the Grimm Reaper.

I shot my elk this year at 34yds: 494gr total weight arrow with the Rocket Steelhead 125. Gave me a complete pass through. Blood trail was 3 feet wide and sprayed on sage and rabbit brush 4 feet high.

Of the last 8 whitetails that I have shot with the steelhead XL all but 1 have been pass throughs and all dead inside of 100yds. The only none pass through was a mature buck and the arrow punched the offside shoulder and buried to the fletching.

There are a ton of great fixed blade heads out there with the Montec's easily being on that list. If a guy were looking at track record for mechanicals it would be hard to argue against the Steelhead - has stood the test of time and accounted for an enormous pile of big game!

Good luck with your search. I am confident that a new BH will increase your recovery percentage! Pete

From: VTslinger
I have used a variety of different broadheads including rocket steelhead expandables for a while. Those are still my favorite expandable but 4 years ago I went "old school. " I have shot my last 6 deer with plain old 100 grain Muzzy 3-blades. I have gotten complete pass through shots .

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