But this is just my observation over the years. My woods has been quiet deer wise also.
I would hunt it but not over-hunt it. Try not to cross the buck's trail on the way in and out. Hunt downwind and only when the wind is right.
You might want to consider putting a black-out trail camera high in a tree overlooking the scrape.
I love hunting scrapes and nothing gets me pumped up more than finding fresh well used scrapes. I know of several perennial scrapes that are used every year. These have been especially productive.
I pulled out my 20 " knarly antler and put rubs on 2 " trees near the last 2 scrapes. I 'll be there wed morning. I have really good luck with fake rubs.
Beware, after 4 weeks with ni ticks I found 4 on me this morning . LINCOLN COUNTY.
The trail camera pic is from 6pm and the photo from my tree stand is from about 8 am.
This photo is the buck I killed off that scrape before the second buck came along.
Funny thing about Elkaddict's 2011 buck, he texted me while I was in my stand and asked to use my game cart to haul it out. I told him where my truck was parked and to come and get it but bring it back when he's done because I'll be needing it. I was hunting a perennial scrape on the edge of a bedding area that got a lot of action. That afternoon the buck in this photo chased a doe right through that scrape and into my lap.
Yep, that was a good year in 2011 Mike!!
It’s true that scrapes get a lot of use at night but they are also visited during the day. I’ve had most of my success on scrapes that are back in the woods rather than out in the open on the edge of a field or food plot. I think that bucks are more secure visiting scrapes during the daylight back in the woods than they are visiting them on the edge of a field but that can change as things heat up and the bucks are spending more time cruising and searching. The scenario that Ruger described with the old logging road dead-ending at the tamarack swamp sounds perfect. For me, the first week of November has been the best for daytime action although the action usually picks up the last week of October.
The common denominator for most of my buck kills at scrapes is the element of surprise. Much of my success happened the first time I hunted the particular scrape or the first time that year. I believe that your chance for success probably goes down a little each time you hunt there. Therefore I try to keep a very low profile around the scrapes that I’m hunting and I don’t walk around them too much so I don’t spread my scent around anymore than necessary. I’d be very careful with stand placement and try to conceal my stand or not have it in a place that is too noticeable. I personally don’t have any experience with ladder stands or tripod stands so I don’t know if they would be too obvious. I use my climber most of the time even on my own property so there’s nothing in the tree except when I’m there.
For the record, I also pay a lot of attention to rubs and rub lines and they have played a role in success too. If you follow a rubline usually it will lead to finding scrapes. Scrapes and rubs kind of go hand in hand and although rubs and rublines are great, if there is a big scrape along the rubline that is where I’ll hunt.
All scrapes aren’t created equal. Some are never visited again but some get used throughout the season and are used year after year. A lot of deer that visit scrapes don’t actually scrape at the ground; they just work the overhanging branches. I had a stand up north near a perennial scrape that I used to hunt a lot before the deer population got decimated. Nearly every deer (does, fawns, young bucks, mature bucks) that passed through the area would stop and visit that scrape. Although very few of them actually scraped the ground, nearly every one of them sniffed or worked the overhanging branches. I monitor a few scrapes with trail cameras and the photos show that most deer that visit scrapes don’t actually scrape the ground. Therefore a scrape could be getting a lot more traffic than it looks like.
I think the best scrapes are in or close to thick cover and/or bedding areas or in transition areas between bedding and feeding areas. I think scrapes along the open edges of fields or food plots are more likely to be visited at night or at last light. That being said, anything can happen once the bucks are on their feet cruising and searching… Like right now guys!
I had a camera set up monitoring one of those perennial scrapes. After the leaves fell and filled the scrape it wasn't getting scraped much anymore but deer were still passing through, scraping lightly and working the overhanging branches.
On October 21st at 9:22 AM while I was hunting a different stand, the big 8 passed through the scrape, worked it lightly and gave me 3 decent daytime photos. He was killed the next year by a gun hunter.
Elkaddict's Link
Elkaddict could you elaborate on your rattling/ grunt sequence a little more?
He's not the biggest buck in the world but I was happy with him for a quick out of state hunt.
I think the message here is that I was hunting an area that I had never stepped foot in before in my life and by finding an active scrape in a transition area I was able to have some quick luck.
I know Elkaddict really "tears it up" with his rattling and calling sequences. I'm sure he'll weigh in with some details.
I had a spot along a creek bank at a good crossing and there was always a good scrape there. On October 20th, 2000 I slipped in at midday to spot check it and it looked great and the scrape was heavily used.
The next day, Oct. 21st the wind was right and I was in a stand overlooking the crossing and scrape. One of my best friends from High School had been killed recently in a car/deer accident leaving behind a wife and 5 kids. The following day, the 22nd would have been his 40th birthday. I sat in my stand thinking about my buddy, reflecting on our friendship and I vowed to get even with a couple deer for him this year. Literally as I was having that thought, this buck came cruising through. He weighed 255 pounds field dressed.
For the most part Mike and I hunt low density, higher pressure, public lands. There's times up North where we literally sit days on end without seeing a deer. That buck up above from 2011 was the first deer I had seen from stand in 49 hours. He came in hard and fast to a 3 minute bleating, grunting, rattling sequence. I am 100% confident that I wouldn't have seen either that or the 2012 buck with out those rattling/calling sequences. These words are so big, broken up with ponds, swamps, clearcuts, etc that there is a much better chance that they get around you then come to you. My thought process is that if I can reach out 3-500 yards with rattling/grunting and give cruising deer an opportunity to "zone" in on me I have a much better chance of getting them in range. This time of year I also do my sequences a minimum of 3 times per hour, sometimes even more. These bucks are on the feet moving and they cover ground quick. I could rattle now, and 10 minutes later a buck could have covered a half mile and be within hearing range. I don't care if I spook 1.5 year old or immature bucks.....and on the contrary it doesn't. It usually brings them in also. Had 3 come in this past week-end....all within 5 yards of the base of my tree. That's the one sketchy thing...they can pinpoint you good so you have to be ready. I'm off to try it right now. Good luck!
IF you don't mind sharing, what sort of sequence do you do?
Great thread. Also, interested in the rattling sequence. My experience is feast or famine with it. My favorite bowsite inspired hunt came from rattling, though. My hunting partner knew exactly what he was doing, however. I was just lucky enough to tag along. Since then I have rattled in a few, but nothing over 2.5 yrs old.
Some really knowledgeable, dedicated bowhunters and great deer too.
Thanks to Sheldon too for starting the thread!
Just a side story, one morning while walking in the dark on my way to the stand I stopped to put scent on a drag rag. I walked towards my stand and stopped to place the rag where i would want the buck to stop for a shot. A short time later I heard a deer approaching then I saw eyes glowing as they approached me. the buck got less than ten feet from me so I could see a nice rack. He could not see me behind my headlamp. He followed my scent trail. After a few minutes he left without our having develop, well, a relationship.
That could have turned bad for me if he attacked and I also thought how many hunters would have chanced the shot in the dark.
I had plenty of action that day but did not get that buck that day.
I practice from the same height in my back yard for that very reason. I use a single pin adjustable. I have it marked for blind shooting and stand shooting
I hunted a fresh scrape in the Chequamegon a number of years ago. So at first light I hit a grunt sequence and about a minute later I hear a deer coming through the cedar swamp on a line. He pops out of the swamp and I can see immediately that he's a shooter. I come to full draw as he hits the scrape and stops broadside at 20 yards. That's when I realized that my target peep sight was much too small to let in the light that early. I couldn't find him in the peep sight so I couldn't take the shot.
The two lessons learned are 1) scrapes are worth hunting over, 2) get a bigger peep site for hunting situations, or don't hit the grunt call until you're sure you'll be able to see through the peep...dumbass!
I never rattle or grunt prior to being able to shoot. Sometimes it happens fast....within seconds. On the flip side when doing the sequence as often as I do you have to remain alert pretty much all times. Sometimes it will take 15 minutes for a buck to respond. I always really survey my surroundings before the next sequence to make sure I don't have something working in before I start smashing the horns together.
I use a set of 3.5 year old 10 point sheds (130" class) with the brows and burr stickers ground off. The tend to really smash the fingers lol. I always have a Primos Long Range Can call, Primos Buck Roar, Drury Mad Growl, and HS True Talker. I will use the can call and all the grunt tubes. I make it sound like a hot doe with multiple bucks chasing that winds up in fight (rattling). It seems to work well for me.
Elkaddict and I have some differences in our styles. Like Crusader Dad, I'm from the "sit still and shut up" camp so I kind of have to talk myself into rattling and making noise.
I've never rattled while walking into my stand but I have grunted occasionally but only when it's daylight. Over the years I've had several bucks approach in the dark while I was at the base of my tree getting ready to climb up. I'm sure they heard me walk in and were horny/curious and came to investigate.
Your style of hunting can turn into a "self fulfilling prophecy". In other words if you always do something a certain way it will influence the statistics. I guess what I'm saying is that if I almost always hunt near active scrapes it stands to reason that most of my bucks will be killed near active scrapes. If Elkaddict almost always shakes rattles and rolls, most of his bucks will be killed that way. It's just something to be aware of I guess.
I have called in numerous bucks with rattling, grunting and my old original Quaker Boy "deer in a can" but none of the bucks I posted in this thread were rattled, grunted or "canned" in. Every one of them was killed by sitting quietly and watching active scrapes. I have killed several bucks in the past by rattling and calling but all of them were 2 1/2 year olds. I have rattled and called in mature bucks but I just haven't been able to kill them, in fact just 2 weeks ago I rattled in a mature 8 pointer but I missed. Most of the bucks that I've called in with the can have been yearlings and I've had a lot of fun with them calling them in multiple times and watching them run around like horny teenagers on spring break.
I started using scents about 30 years ago back when Tinks #69 first came out and there was a time when I felt like I couldn't go out hunting without a bottle of it stinking up my pocket. During those years I had a lot of fun with different kinds of scents and lured in a lot of yearlings and a few 2 year olds with it... but never a mature buck. I know others, smokey included have luck with scents but I have abandoned them almost completely. Every mature buck I have ever killed has been without the use of scents and that includes cover scents. Since I stopped using all scents, my big buck sightings have gone way up but that could also be partially attributed to becoming a better hunter over the years. The one exception is the use of real tarsal glands (saved and frozen from previous bucks) placed on or near a decoy.
This one was at 2:52 pm on 11/08/11
Here's a situaton where I had a good bottleneck between scraped up areas and I set up a camera in the bottleneck and turned the flash off so I would only get daytime photos and not have the camera flash in the deer's faces.
Here's a little guy passing through about noon on 10/28
Funny thing about that hunt, my brother was living in Florida at the time and we were texting back and forth while I was in my tree. He jokingly said that he was looking at me on Google Earth and I should turn around because there was a 150 class 10 pointer behind me. Minutes later this buck came through, I shot him and watched him drop in sight. I climbed down and about 10 minutes later I texted my brother a photo of the buck and told him that it's not quite a 150 incher but not a bad guess from so far away! ;^)
Some of my scouting consists of spot-checking previously hunted areas and then I will hunt the same day because I haven't disturbed the area.
Sometimes when scouting a new area I'll hit really hot sign. I'll hit the skids and back out, get my gear and come back in if I haven't disturbed the area much. In those situations sometimes my first choice for a stand site might not be the best and I'll fine tune based on deer sightings or finding more/better sign.
When I killed the buck in '07 after the Packer game that I posted above I was actually on my way in deeper to a different spot but I hit really hot sign on the way in so I decided to climb a tree there. That buck came from the opposite direction I expected and actually crossed my path before he got to me...
I just thought I'd update this thread with some more recent daytime scrape photos.
You can see the buck sniffing the overhanging branch in this photo.
My hats off to the all the above who have developed their skills and techniques to consistently put the big ones down!
I'll nominate this one for "thread of year"!
Wish there were more like it!
Are you using real horns or a rattle bag?
Public Land - big woods, scouted all spring, for my guest guess on set ups, that time of year I build my natural blinds, and pick my areas and trees......
Concentrate on rub lines, funnels, pinch points, saddles and terrain change...... I like to focus on where at least 3 different terrains come together, with good edge areas, there you will find movement sign....
On public land, during the season, if I find, smoking hot sign, I hunt it right now,,,, I do not go back to the truck, I just hunt it,,,,,, might only get a day or so out of it, might pick the wrong spot, and get winded, but when I find really hot sign, the feet stop and I set up......
private land different story..... hope this helps....
Kingston, nice bucks
I go in, when I can just barely see, and make my way in, at the earliest lite I can use,,,,, I hate flashlites in the morning
Bigwoods, I think I can speak for Elkaddict. He uses real 130" class antlers. He's very aggresive with his rattling and I think it would be tough do what he does with a rattle bag.
I've been working with Sitka, HUD, and Rokslide and will be featuring a short clip on how I do it. I'll post when it's done.
There were trails and rubs in the area but I hung my stand based on where the scrapes were. This was the first time I had ever hunted this spot.
Used to be area's where trails crossed or coming out of the marshes where rub lines and scrapes were every year. Now spread all over the place and the scrapes are hit a few times then they move on to another area.
I know by me the deer have "adapted" to the wolves. We now have bigger bodied longer legged deer from old does to fawns. You can just see the difference. I think they also kind of stopped using main scrape area's.
It is the only thing I can think of for the lack of them being around as the mature bucks are still around.
Great thread with tons of info.
I have some spots that I have hunted in the past (previous years) and I know where to expect scrapes and rubs to appear. Usually I will have thoroughly scouted those areas during a previous spring after snow melt or during a previous hunting season so I'm familiar with the lay of the land, vegetation, etc.
When I "spot check" them I walk in taking the most direct route to where I've found sign like scrapes, rubs, trails, etc. in the past. I don't walk all over and disturb or stink up the area, I'm just doing a quick check to see if there is sign where I expect it to be. If there is, I'll hunt it and keep my disturbance to a minimum. If I don't find sign where it was in the past I might do a more thorough scouting job to see if there is sign elsewhere in the area.
He seems to have the same smile you do.
Yeah, I'm not very good at smiling so I don't do it very often. I wasn't sure how to do it so I just copied the buck :^)
Can you give some examples of the bottlenecks you referred to earlier?
Thanks!!
Related to Scrape Hunting, here are some of my other observations, that may help. Regardless if your tag is filled, take advantage of this weather and scout like heck......
when I was younger I forgot ice fishing and everything else, and just scouted and scouted. having little to no private land, if you want to take a nice buck in the NF, you have to do your homework......
One thing I truly believe in, is finding rub lines, and look for the older rub lines. you may find an area that has no fresh rubs, but lots of old rubs....
those old rubs tell a story, and I can almost date rubs, after all the years. You may not find fresh rubs, but an old rub site, is telling you, this is a travel route......
Here is another observation, I believe that mature bucks, well some of them do not rub at all, but they show up along these old rub lines, and its a short window, during legal hours, that you can catch em.
I also believe that a lot of old nice bucks, do not even breed, or chase around, I know some of my old partners thought I was nuts, but I was convinced of this...... jumping big bucks, who had not moved for days during the rut, the sign was there to read.
Nov 3 -7th and late late season, with cold weather...
revisit your scrape areas during late season, it can pay off.......
good luck
I always take rubs into account when scouting and I've seen a lot of bucks in areas with rubs. I'm curious though if you or anybody else has ever seen a buck return to a big rub like a signpost rub and visit it the way they visit scrapes. I've heard it happens but I've never seen it myself.
Bigwoods,
On the attached photo I've put some red X's in bottleneck areas between ponds and swamps.
Bottlenecks can also be formed around the head of a ravine where deer will follow the ravine and go around the top end of it on flat ground rather than crossing through the ravine. A lot of times when there is logging activity the cutting will stop short of the ravine to leave a buffer of uncut mature trees to prevent erosion into the ravine. This can create a good bottleneck or pinch point between the head of the ravine and the new growth from logging. It also becomes a point where 3 types of cover/terrain (mature forest, young growth, ravine) come together which can be good.
I've found that long narrow bottlenecks (like the one in the upper right of the photo) are not as good as shorter bottlenecks (like the 2 in the center of the photo). I think the deer feel more vulnerable, or maybe more trapped in a long narrow bottle neck than they do in a short one where they can get through the narrow spot quicker.
I've also noticed that even though there might be a trail right through the middle or on one side of the bottleneck, mature does and bucks will usually pass through on the downwind side so they're more likely to catch scent of danger that might be waiting in the bottleneck. So keep that in mind when hanging a stand in a bottleneck. Sometimes you can hang your stand on the downwind side on the edge of swamp or pond where nothing can get downwind of you unless they are across the pond/swamp. This is a setup that both me and Elkaddict often use when rattling.
Of course during the rut, a buck might cross through the bottleneck anywhere and will sometimes cruise through right on the main trail with his nose to the ground.
Razorhead your right. I pretty much think the same way as you with rub lines. The ones that really get me excited are the ones that head into thick bedding areas, especially ones going into cattails with humps.(dead giveaway) Tough to hunt, but it can be done. Get in there extremely early & burrow right in there with him You're probably only going to get 1 chance so you better do everything right the first time.(best to attempt before the rut kicks in)
Mike, your observations on bucks using the downwind side of a bottle neck are spot on also. Its good to be pasted up as close as possible to the breaking terrain to keep them from getting down wind on you.
IMO If you have a good, productive bottle neck, you should always have at least 2 stands or 2 trees to climb for different wind directions.
I'm not new at this stuff...I'm a ...uh..."seasoned" citizen at 63 :^). But I have a question for y'all: I've had limited success rattling, but have killed almost all my bucks by calling.
I read a thread on "puppet rattling" which makes a lot of sense...I added a question which has yet to garner any response. As mentioned above, bucks can and do pinpoint your location from a long ways off...whereby, for me anyway, most I've called in come directly at my stand, often offering tough shot angles or busting me before a good angle presents itself.
That said, I've long mulled over the feasibility of running a plastic tube about 20ish yards from my stand to use as a grunt tube in an attempt to project the sound away from me as an effort to have the critter NOT come directly to me.
Anybody try this? I'm of the thought to play with this a bit to check sound quality...too deep? Too loud? Who knows...
Gonna toy with it this off season...
You might be better off putting the grunt call on the far end of the tube. Then it would sound the same if you had enough air pressure to make the call work.
This has worked for me many times.
You never know what is going to set that buck off, so only experience can teach you,,,, its that simple....
also I would approach scrape hunting different if I was hunting only private land, and controlled the access, than hunting public land......
my best luck with scrapes, and hunting around them, has been on big NF land, that access too is not easy, or you have to make, a heck of an effort to get into,,,,, those few precious spots, can be really good, even with the current herd status
blackwolf, you don't mind if I hunt out of them do you? ;^)
Novice, I agree with your approach on scent.
I thought I'd update this thread with a few more photos...
Although leaves have fallen into the scrape and it's not being scraped much anymore, the bucks are still visiting it.
Great photo Nocturnal8!
I've been hunting scrapes since I was old enough to hunt on my own. Been running cameras on them since the 90's. I remember when the first ones came out. $450 retail, 4 D cell batteries, one roll of film and couldn't wait to pay that one hour processing fee to see what was on them!! I remember one big scrape in some open hardwoods on an old logging trail that had 9 bucks it hit in two hours. The good old days of Northern Wisconsin. I'll hunt up some of them old pics and scan in one of these days.
Yes cool am, but lots of warm days ahead ,,,,,, good thread
I don't go back for stands, or over analyze the area etc, I just hunt and set up right there. Since this is not private land, I have no idea of where the buck is going to come from, so I do not worry about wind directions. All I see is fresh rubs, torn up ground, good fresh scrapes, heck I am there, right now.... Stand or no stand, I am hunting....
Yes I have been caught and blown out many times, only to mark the spot for future hunts and winds etc, but at least I saw the buck..... However I have also scored well at times, when others would have been going back to the truck, to retrieve a stand.....
I like to have the stand on my back at all times,,,,, this year I have the M7,,,,,,, I have been wearing it, during my evening walks at home, do not even know its there
Maybe you guys that posted them can edit and re-add them if you still have them?
Picture is a thousand words.
