I have heard multiple folks and a certain hunting show personality from MT critical of MBA and vow not to join over their previous tough stances on electronic devices, lighted nocks etc....Much of the criticism I hear is powerful Traditional guys and gals flexing their muscles.
I personally build and hunt with self bows, longbows, re-curve bows and compounds. By far, when I need to make a difficult kill, I have to admit, I pick up the compound bow.
In my mind, there's no question, we are experiencing "mission creep" and "incrementalism" on subtle and stark changes to equipment and technology. I personally have no problem with lighted nocks for instance but I also don't begrudge the MBA for moving very slowwwwly on accepting these changes.
We may experience shorter seasons and special draws to compensate for much higher success ratios just with modern compound bows. When I was a kid in eastern Montana, it was talk of the town when anyone killed an elk with a bow. Now, many guys and gals shoot one every year......
What say you?
Roughcountry: I agree with you. I shoot a trad bow in the off season but I sure do enjoy my training wheels come bow season.
Only in Kansas would they come up with a doohickey like that....
The thing archery hunters need to keep in mind is that archery hunting is a "primative" sport and that when folks started hunting with a bow, it was because of the additional challenge. Archery hunting was never a tool to manage wildlife, so FWP never looked at it that way. With all the technological advancements . . . . more and more archery hunters are taking to the field and more and more archery hunters are becoming successful.
Equipment like what you posted (Pioneer Airbow) is NOT a bow. That thing is a cross bewteen a rifle and a bow, but it is NO BOW. With the speed and accuracy stated, I think the Montana FWP Commission would have no choice to apply addition regulations or season dates/times. I think if your going to pick up an "airbow", why not just rifle hunt?
It's not a bow for sure and would never be in a Montana archery season but I wont go so far as to disallow it's overall legality.
Two inch groups at 60 yards or about the size of a silver dollar. That's at 450 fps and it looks like it would accommodate a much longer arrow than a crossbow bolt. I believe it would be more stable and guess you could probably achieve hunting accuracy from 150-200 yards with a solid rest. Some target archers are pretty good out to 120-150 with a counter balance stabilizer.
All they need is a state or two to allow it and money talks, so next, you get a hunting show to start using them and voila, new market opens up. Deadly I'm sure, and would accommodate many more "bow hunters" recruited into the sport. But yes, the game commissions would have to adjust for the increased success rates unless you're in a state desperately seeking to thin out game.
It looks and sounds a little ridiculous now but wait and see...........
It opens a huge can of worms.
I agree that we should continue to keep archery hunting primitive. electronic devices attached to bows, etc, is not primitive.
Hyde
People always bring up the dumb ass lighted nock crap, as if there isn't WAY bigger things facing bowhunting in Montana.
Give me a break......
This crazy trad guy voted for the stupid ass nocks by the way, because I feel we CAN have those WITHOUT other technology.
Your welcome.
In the early 1990s, the equipment issue caused a huge rift in the membership. The MBA got that all worked out and is not "full of crazy trad guys."
All who don't believe in the MBA, ought to try it for a year. Go to the upcoming MBA convention, which I think is first weekend of April at Fairmont Hot Springs west of Butte. Good time and some great bowhunting related programs and gear.
I am one of the crazy trad guys but there are lots, probably a majority who shoot compounds but what does it matter? We bowhunters need to put forth a united front or we will lose some of our generous seasons.
Check it out at mtba.org.
The passage of time and the inexorable march of technology have brought archery equipment a long way from what was thought of as a primitive weapon to what is available on the market today.
Several years ago, after a presentation and testimony before the Montana Legislature on our archery season and the reason for continued prohibition of the crossbow in the archery only season, I was drawn off to the side by one our state legislators for a face to face conversation after the session. This gentlemen thanked me and the MBA for being a group focused on opportunity and not necessilarily on success in the field.
He lamented there may come a time when the defense of our archery season being a primitive weapon season may not be a defensible position if a modern compound bow will be compared to a flintlock or percussion muzzleloading rifle......hmmm.
The MBA as a group, from a membership questionnaire of several years ago, membership was mainly modern compound shooters, with the trad guys being a minority. If I recall it was about 2/3's wheel bows and a 1/3 trad bows for respective preferred archery gear.
Another anecdotal piece of information, a very good friend of mine was a game warden in Wyoming for about 10 years from the mid ninties to about 2004. He remarks even though the crossbow was legal for the archery only season in Wyoming, he only encountered it being used twice in his interaction with bowhunters in that state. He was located and worked in the Cody area.
There is one thing about being an MBA Member that my personal experience has shown: the MBA is the very best social filter available. By that, what I am trying to say is the finest people I have met in Montana are members of the MBA....why would that be?
To begin with, all MBA members are committed to the idea of preservation of our archery season, hence they are people of good character and so forth. Do we all agree on everything? No. Sometimes it seems we cannot agree on anything...kind of like being married or having children I suppose.
So if being an MBA member marks me as a crazy trad guy....OK, I'll take that as a compliment.
Gary Carvajal
How about a couple weeks of muzzleloader starting the first of October? Honestly a real flintlock is probably more limited for range than a compound and takes longer to reload. The only saving grace is you still have to draw the bow by hand.
How about crossbow guys in the pool of LE drawings for archery permits and tags? Yeah I think the possibilities are nothing but bad for you and me and the reason is is because all this tech DOES make it easier. If it doesn't make bowhunting easier then why do you want to spend the money and pack the weight? If the tech holds no advantages then why is it here?
We have it sooooo good right now as bowhunters, do we really want to risk that by pushing the tech until we end up with the above? Ask yourself, think about it, do I NEED that bow mounted rangefinder?
But all is not lost for you tech guys, Montana has a generous general season as well and you can tech the hell out of that bow and hunt with it to your hearts content but just like the crossbow, I find people that want every piece of tech on a compound just pick up a rifle when they can. Because it's easier to kill with.
I don't believe Montana is having a real recruitment problem but what the MBA would really like to see is more of Montana's licensed bowhunters join up.
No, we don't all agree, and likely never will, but we all should have the same goals concerning the future of bowhunting in Montana.
My Dad is 73 and he can get around the mountains pretty well, but his shoulders will never allow him to draw a bow again. He can punch the hell out of punching bag, but his rotator cuff wont let him draw a bow. Believe me he has tried. He ends up choosing to hunt with a rifle in Montana when I know he would rather be hunting with a cross bow during bow season with his two sons who use compounds. He is only good to 40 yards with a crossbow at best.
Just like lighted knocks can be carefully crafted as approved archery tackle, so too could an exemption for those who want to participate with a crossbow and I seriously doubt there will be some significant difference in game harvested. Either way, allot of good points made by all above.
Someday I will be faced with not being able to draw a bow and as much as I would want to be out there chasing critters in Sept. I also don't want to destroy what we have.
I wish there was an easy solution but unfortunately there are just too many people looking for a loop hole to easier and they would like nothing more than to be able to basically gun hunt the archery season.
The guys I know that are successful public land bowhunters have one thing in common. They work their ass off.
Willing to put the time in, willing to walk the extra mile to peak over the next ridge, willing to wake up at 4 AM to get into their spot before daylight.
That's what hunting is about. For far too many it's all about getting an easy kill.
JayZ: You are correct that most never get off the road let alone to the next ridge. I don't think you will find any of those guys above who have posted. All of us here are hardcore hunters. If we were chasing the same bull, we would probably meet at 4AM at the parking lot. Problem is BigDan and Maddeerhunter would have left the road by 3:30 AM... :)
He shot this bull in the breaks on opening day this year and may have been the only "disabled" hunter out there.
I think his draw lock and compound bow are much lighter to carry around than a typical cross bow with the horizontal arms sticking out.
'Not hearing anyone preaching traditional archery. You certainly don't have to belong to MBA to participate in the great bowhunting opportunity in Montana ... but if you don't recognize what MBA has accomplished on behalf of bowhunting in Montana ... then you are certainly vision impaired ... and perhaps need some archery modification.
Second, know one said anything about compound bows or arrow materials or broadheads, and I am certainly not against them. The only thing stated is/was a limit on the tech to preserve what we have.
We as bowhunters would be weakened by disallowing compound bows as archery equipment,...who would want that? I personally feel the let-off today is a bit much but that's me and my opinion and I'm not going to burn down the MBA because of it.
My argument may seem pointless BowtechMT but I believe it may be because you missed my point.
And I take some offense to that comment about most hunters you know not wanting to join because of folks like me when it was folks like me that started this organization and gave YOU and MOST of the hunters YOU know one of the best if not THE best bowhunting state in the country!
Your welcome.
Traditional stickbow shooters are to be admired.
Another reason I can't get myself to support the MBA is the fact they don't allow disabled hunters to use crossbows. They require these contraptions to be mounted on COMPOUND BOWS and are still not usable for some of these hunters. Get with the times and quit letting your ego get in the way of allowing ALL hunters to enjoy these opportunities!
Keep in mind the MBA has helped several disabled bowhunters modify their equipment, get equipment, and/or taken them out hunting. There are also safety concerns or that one or two people who are not "disabled" and find some "medical" reason to use a cross bow.
The point is that MBA as an organization has made the decision to hold the line on keeping bow hunting a more challenging form of hunting and thus perpetuating the rationale for a separate archery season.
As far as I know lighted nocks WERE approved as archery equipment by the MBA. Majority vote by dues paying members who give a shit about Montana bowhunting.
Your welcome.
The rationale for and against lighted nocks has been debated ad nauseum ... 'sorry if you missed it, but there are good points of rationale for lighted nocks, as well as against their use.
IT WAS THE GENERAL CONSENSUS - VOTE - SURVEY - COLLECTIVE OPINION OF THE MBA MEMBERSHIP WHICH WAS THE RATIONALE FOR OPPOSING LIGHTED NOCKS. I am sure there were many members who supported the use of luminocks, but were not in the majority, so the organization formed a position otherwise. That's part of the process of belonging to a democratic or representative democratic organization, city, county, state, or nation. Sometimes the minority does not get their way.
What have you done to get lighted nocks included?
So, therefore, MBA should be receiving some of LIFEALONG's dimes.
So, this whole time those thinking the MBA was opposed to lighted nocks were "wrong". Hmmm . . . . misinformation or assumptions.
Bottom line . . . . . join the MBA for as little as $25/year . . . get involved . . . . and get informed.
When I served on the Board and was President, I learned a whole lot about how the "process" works with FWP, the legislature and just general proceeding with an organization such as the MBA. Those folks that are truly involved and those folks on the Board deserve a BIG THANK YOU. These folks are volunteers . . . . none of them are paid, with the exception of the Treasurer's position. And the Board cannot afford to pay the Treasurer what she truly deserves. She does a lot for what she actually gets compensated for all the hard work she does.
Using a fake name makes you a troll.
I apologize for feeding the troll.
But, nice try "Lifealongtheedge".
Ok, I'll play as I have some free time.......You outed yourself a little bit with your response. Obviously, you perceive MBA as damaging you somehow or somewhere along the line. My question is "IF" we assume you're correct, what is the alternative organization we should join or action we should take to enhance our bow hunting opportunities in Montana?
In psychology, your statement "the organization is bullshit and EVERYONE knows it" falls into the category of all or nothing thinking.
(((___All-or-nothing thinking is one of many negative thought processes, known as cognitive distortions, that are common among people with anxiety and depression.____)))
My advice is to take a deep breath and let it go. Bow hunting is a wonderful past time and lifestyle. While a person may not agree with every decision or opinion the MBA puts forth, I'll hitch my wagon to a group of bow hunters who want our opportunities to continue next year, next decade and 50 years from now.
The cognitive distortion expressed in much of your rhetoric reflects exponentially more about you than about the particular organization you are disparaging.
sbschindler's Link
