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Hey guys,
Just wanted to make a push to make sure you all are aware of the MBA. Its really a no brainer. These guys do a TON for the seasons we enjoy. These seasons wouldn't exist without them. Its, cheap...$25/year. Last year there were over 40,000 bowhunting tags sold in MT and we have less then 500 members fighting to keep things going. Our season is NOT a given and needs to be protected. This is one of the best way to do that. Hit me up if you have any questions as we really need to get together on this one. Please join up if you have not. There is a great video on their website detailing how they started and what they are all about. In my opinion it should be a given, if you carry a bow in the woods, you are a member of the MBA. Step up and join if you have not already. Thanks!
Matt
500 members? Is that accurate?
tradmt- Unless I misheard him, Scott Koelzer...one of the founding board members said those were the membership numbers at the convention this weekend. He gave a speech in regards to the passing of Lee Poole and then spoke about where our membership was at and what we faced. I actually think he said 44,000 tags sold and 459 members to be in exact terms of what I thought I heard. Maybe someone else that was there can verify that? I was a few drinks in at the time so I may have gotten that wrong:) I was very surprised also. If we had even 10% or 20% membership of those who bought tags I would have thought that was too low. It takes a lot to fight back all the things going against us. We really need to throw some weight around. Either way, I just want to encourage people who aren't members to slip over to the website, watch the video and drop the $25. Its very important in my opinion that we have the group strong in numbers and funding. Our seasons are constantly being challenged. These men that came before us did a lot.
Yeah, even if he said 5000 it's still too low.
we are just a bit over 500,, it ranges between 700 and 500, depending on when our membership pay their dues or not,, It appears to me that we really only have about 5000 actual bowhunters in Montana and about 39K who are either freeloading or just don't care if we have a bowseason or not..
some of that 44000 are out of staters. sorry but I quit when they backed permitting after being a member for about 35 years. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR PERMITS, and now we have shoulder seasons because there are too many elk.
Dr. Bob,
Everyone who was once a member has "one" issue that they did not agree with the MBA's stance on. I have not agreed with every stance the MBA has taken. I do not agree with everything my wife does, but I am not going to give up on her.
I would like to challenge you to look at the larger picture. The fact is that there is only one organization that is protecting and enhancing bowhunting in Montana.
There are no shoulder seasons during YOUR archery season and that is largely due to the efforts of the MBA.
Steve
All I'm saying is there is really no good excuse to not be a member.....especially at the cost they are charging. I don't care if you disagree on an issue, that's life. We will all never agree on every single thing. In the big picture we are aiming for the same thing. These seasons are NOT a given right. They are a privilege. Those who act like you are owed something just don't get it. Dr Bob I encourage you to get back in the game and help move things forward and preserve what we have for ourselves and future generations. There will be nothing left to preserve if we don't get together now. MT has THE BEST archery seasons as compared to every other state. That fact alone and as a gesture of gratitude is reason enough to be a member. Get over lighted nocks, compound bows, shoulder season, permits......whatever! None of them would even be an issue to fight against without the MBA. We will not have an archery season to defend if we are not careful. I mean 500 members....... Cmon man!!
"There are no shoulder seasons during YOUR archery season and that is largely due to the efforts of the MBA" Id wait a bit before you buy into that info.
Well deer will be next, and if you don't draw you won't have an archery season. I pay for the right to hunt with a bow. I was one of the guys who got you some of your seasons. At my age I can't afford to not draw, every season might be my last, and for what, we are killing too much, or do you just want to keep hunters out of your honey hole. I have missed a few drawings and I will never get them back, it's not fun sitting home when your friends go hunting. For a association who is suppose to promote bowhunting.
Dr. Bob- You are obviously pissed off about something in life. Thank you for you past efforts in securing our archery seasons. This thread was not intended to attack you or anyone else. Take a deep breath, your comments have nothing to do with what this thread is about.
Again, my main point was to make sure everyone was aware the MBA existed, what it is all about and to encourage you to be part of it. It's really a great deal and an asset to our sport. I have a ton of friends who bow hunt and are not aware of the MBA and we need to remedy that. Turkey opens soon, hope you all are getting a chance to get out. Good luck and have fun.
Matt
I;m not telling you shouldn't b a member, the MBA protects the rights we have. I'm just explaining why I'm not anymore.
FYI, SBH, dr. Bob is pi$$ed because MBA supported the change to permits for archery elk in HD 410 and other Breaks HDs. He has explained his position clearly before. Although there was quite a debate about going to permits to manage the NR ten percent number, dr. Bob has a valid point in that from an elk wildlife management perspective there was really not a critical reason for the change.
I do wish dr. Bob would realize that there are other HDs with elk archery not requiring a permit ... for those few unlucky years when he has not drawn for his elk honey hole.
" ...who are either freeloading or just don't care if we have a bowseason or not.. "
THIS is the condescending attitude that keeps people away. Acting like bowhunters owe you something. You gain membership by telling people what the organization can do for them going forward, not by berating them with that kind of attitude. SBH's attitude is much more refreshing. It bothers me that a vp of an organization would act this way.
"There are no shoulder seasons during YOUR archery season and that is largely due to the efforts of the MBA"
Well thanks, but I hunt 298 and there's a shoulder season starting there Aug 15th and continuing right thru bow season. Not sure how it will effect things being on private land, but there's a couple of private elk refuges there I suspect will stay full of elk from Aug 15th thru Feb.
Another item someone at MBA might want to address is the "This site may be hacked" message for the mtba.org site on Google's search pages. No telling how many that little item keeps away.
SA thanks for understanding. Those other HDs areas are part of the problem the hunters from there put in for permits and if they don't draw no big deal they just hunt in their area ( and that lowers my chance of drawing) when this first started chance of drawing was in the high 90% now it is in the 60%s. As long as we have an over abundance of elk there should not be permits, you permit not to over harvest.
Dr. Bob- Since you were previously involved you are probably already aware of this but the MBA is constantly having to work within the confines of the FWP proposals........... which so often now are coming down from the legislature. As I've begun to get more involved and go to FWP meetings I can see we are fighting an uphill battle. There are many groups with lots of money and power that want to take away our seasons. Its scary what they have accomplished and amazing what we have still to this day. Many times I think the MBA is stuck trying to choose the lesser of two evils. We need to properly fund this group with both money and people who care. There have been a lot of issues in the past with differences in bowhunters and opinions especially as equipment has changed. I understand that has left a bad taste in some folks mouths. Its time to move on together as bowhunters and work for the future of our sport. I have 4 small boys under the age of 10, I want to ensure they are able to do the things I enjoy with them now. Just consider it is all I'm asking. They really are working towards the greater good. Forgive the past, get involved and help instigate some change.
"MBA is constantly having to work within the confines of the FWP proposals"
This is only partly accurate. The MBA needs to get more pro active to they are not reacting or working within the FWP proposals, but are working with FWP BEFORE the proposals are made so they better suit bowhunters.
Tjones- I couldn't agree more!! Its pretty tough to do that with membership levels where they stand right now. That's my point. We need more people. These are all volunteers. You can bet your ass the antis and the opposition we face have paid lobbyist. Joining is step one, getting involved is step two.
In many states the associations and clubs are falling apart and lacking support due to polarization of members created by tech advancements and other concerns of the day. Compound vs traditional, crossbows, trail cams, drones, lighted nocks and pins, baiting, APR's, Landowner apathy, FWP methodology, wolves, bears, elk harboring, private vs public property rights, access, I -161, shoulder seasons, etc etc. Pretty soon hunters begin to do their own thing that best suits what they personally believe in.
The internet has made it possible for many hunters to stay politically informed and contribute outside of clubs and memberships... which are oftentimes run by hot heads and name callers with personal agendas. Who needs that? I am not saying this is true with the MBA, simply making general statements and pitfalls to avoid.
What in the world is a "shoulder season"? Could you be referring to crossguns?
"shoulder seasons" are a new thing the FWP is doing this year because they claim elk numbers are over quota. Its a bad deal. They went ahead and did it anyways, without all the info and based on bad numbers given from above. These season now extend elk hunting on private land through February. They wanted early seasons...with guns....to begin in August. Most of the early seasons where shut down in most areas but I do think they passed a couple? Its a very dangerous step when we have rifles going in archery only seasons. Also the complete mismanagement of the elk numbers is of great concern. These are things we face moving forward.
"Shoulder Seasons" will put hunting pressure on elk from mid-August until the end of February in some areas. In total, it appears the intent is to reduce elk numbers across Montana from roughly 150,000 to less than 100,000 to conform to the elk population objectives of the Elk Management Plan (flawed objective numbers, in my opinion). It likely will result in much less hunting opportunity for my grandkids and yours, in future years.
I think Montana can sustain increased elk numbers ... not fewer. To put it in perspective, Colorado is about 2/3rds the size of Montana, with about 2/3rds the acreage of public lands, yet sustains an elk population in excess of 250,000 elk. I submit that the difference in elk management and in tolerance for elk between the two states is political in nature. Montana needs wildlife management based on the North American Wildlife Conservation Model and the Public Trust Doctrine. Montana needs an FWP organization and a legislature more aware of the importance of wildlife and wild places and not so driven by a radical ideology based on $$$$$ ca-ching, ca-ching .... money! Yet the economic benefit of wildlife and wild places seems lost in the politics. Anyhow, that's my rant for the morning.
I ran into a rifle hunter, father and son, during the archery season while I was elk hunting, it was the youth deer hunt.
After I talked with them I thought, WOW, some kid is going to kill a bowhunter and have to live with that the rest of their lives.
I didn't know it was even going and didn't have orange so I got to waste a day watching them until they left the area.
I have dodged enough bullets, I took some lead in my left arm when I was about 14 from an idiot with a gun, had bullets wizzing just a couple feet above my head through the brush in quebec in 2013. I have had enough!
Thank you Straight Arrow. Well said on the shoulder seasons. They are a very bad idea and yes the FWP is not managing to sound numbers. They are managing to whatever the money in the legislature tells them to do. However, after speaking with many of them, that is not their desire. They really need our comments and complaints. If it aint in writing, it don't count. Coming on Bowsite and bitching about the situation doesn't do any good. We need to show there are a lot of people pissed off. Trust me, the antis, the wolf lovers, grizzly lovers and all the rest make their case well known. They are a vocal minority in my opinion but they are getting things done for their agenda. I think I'm about done with this thread as it has kind of taken a negative turn. My agenda was well stated and still stands, please look into joining the MBA its only $25/year and they really are fighting for and sustaining our seasons. Best of luck to all this spring with turkey and bear. Feel free to pm me if anyone is interested in learning more about what they do. I am simply trying to get the word out. Shoot straight boys!
Although I have expressed my opinions to FWP regional and state offices, to the FWP Commission, and to the Governor's office, I belong to MBA because the voice of that organization has much much more impact and influence than I can ever hope to have as an individual hunter and wildlife advocate.
"All I'm saying is there is really no good excuse to not be a member.....especially at the cost they are charging. I don't care if you disagree on an issue, that's life." That is the exact attitude that will keep myself and pretty much everyone I know from giving them another penny.
"I didn't know it was even going and didn't have orange so I got to waste a day watching them until they left the area. "
Sounds like you need to read the regs and maybe you wont put yourself in danger again
'It appears to me that we really only have about 5000 actual bowhunters in Montana and about 39K who are either freeloading or just don't care if we have a bowseason or not..'
Thats the exact mindset why most of those 39,000 haven't joined. Quit insulting the public for not joining and educate them. I've had nothing but rude dealings with most of the MBA officials that I've come across and it's extremely off putting.
Backcountry your numbers are off a little 500 mba members and 45,000 that are not.
Dan, I was going off Schindler's numbers. Thanks.
The MBAs attitude towards non members and their join our way of thinking or pound sand attitude towards current members is the reason for their low and probably declining membership numbers.They have nobody to blame but themselves.Its seems to me that if the issue at hand doesn't personally effect the core of the membership(a very small group) then it is a non issue not worthy of their efforts.If they want to keep and recruit members they are going to have to realize the "little" issues like lighted knocks and shoulder seasons are a big deal to some guys and when the organization blows them off they arnt going to keep writing you checks.AKA pull your heads out of your ass.
"The MBAs attitude towards non members and their join our way of thinking or pound sand attitude towards current members is the reason for their low and probably declining membership numbers.They have nobody to blame but themselves.Its seems to me that if the issue at hand doesn't personally effect the core of the membership(a very small group) then it is a non issue not worthy of their efforts.If they want to keep and recruit members they are going to have to realize the "little" issues like lighted knocks and shoulder seasons are a big deal to some guys and when the organization blows them off they arnt going to keep writing you checks.AKA pull your heads out of your ass."
The MBA is about keeping generous bowhunting seasons and opportunities for all bowhunters and NOT about expanding your petty equipment issues. So pull YOUR head out of YOUR ass and start to UNDERSTAND the bowhunting picture. Fighting politics and the money that controls it who want to turn Montana bowhunting into a strictly for profit entity is overwhelming at times.You won't have to worry about lighted knocks if the trend continues for you will be walking around land open to the public bow in one hand and a PICTURE of an elk in the other dreaming of what it used to be.
The MBA is a democracy, join and effect change, its just that simple.Although my feelings mirror plenty coups's for the most part, as in there are MUCH bigger issues than a nock, I understand some are pretty passionate about the equipment and the only thing I can say is join and take part in the process.
They take votes from members on these equipment and other issues and carry our voices where they need to be heard. I have never seen nor heard of any bad attitudes coming from the MBA towards any non member but I sure have seen some bad attitudes from non members and the one's I know of personally are about the equipment issues.
We're never going to agree 100% on every issue but when a member majority stands on one side of an issue thats what we fight for, which in turn makes bowhunting Montana an overall better experience for the majority.
Join and become a part of an organization that fights the good fight for ALL bowhunters or, remain solitary and bitch about the outcomes of issues you COULD have done something about. I still can't figure out why someone would choose the latter.
I believe one problem many state organizations make is they do not stick to the bigger issues, like promoting archery and protecting seasons.
Getting involved in a lighted nock debate, baiting, cameras etc is petty, I agree. So,.... if you are telling members to stick to large issues and not worry about the petty, why doesn't the Association? That would help eliminate some divisiveness.
You cant have an organization that claims to represent all archers yet picks and chooses what archery "types" they are going to stand up for.Either your going to stand up for every archers idea of the way things should be or your going to alienate a large percentage of the modern archery enthusiasts.Thats what the MBA has done.If you want to boost membership your going to have to make some changes,telling hunters to get on board and then TRY to change the agenda of your organization so it will get involved in the issues you are interested in is asinine.
LATE, obviously you are not a member of MBA, nor have realized how that organization, like most democratic principle based organizations, determines positions and issues which define the agenda and archery interests to promote. Surveys are regularly conducted, discussions ensue during conventions, regional meetings and other gatherings and the membership has many and various opportunities to influence the agenda and positions of MBA. It is a fundamental representative democratic process. Once the general consensus is reached, then those positions are promoted. I don't necessarily agree with each, but as a member I am confident and supportive of the process and therefore accept the position(s).
If you don't want to be a part of such a process, then you certainly don't have to belong. If there are any or all positions you agree with, then MBA has continuously proven itself to be the best voice for archery to promote those positions. Go ahead on your own if you choose ... but please become better informed regarding MBA process and membership representation before criticizing. Your criticism seems ill-conceived and uninformed to me as a member of MBA who has had much opportunity to voice my archery opinions.
Tradmt and Straight Arrow... Thanks a ton for those last posts. SBH - thanks even more for the thread. As an attendee of the last banquet and annual donor, I was once again floored by the monumental efforts (efforts vs. bitching & whining) by so few historically that have made what we have possible. Those of us who hunt with bows really owe so much to those who started this organization and to the few who keep it going. If you are not a member, please get informed and strongly consider joining. Get involved.
My guess is that very, very few bowhunters in Montana visit this site.... It's probably not the best place to try to recruit new members.
I believe there are valid reasons why some people choose not to be a member....
"My guess is that very, very few bowhunters in Montana visit this site.... It's probably not the best place to try to recruit new members." So why waste your time talking about the Montana Bowhunter Association on Montana BOWSITE?! Now that's a pretty funny opinion.
"I believe there are valid reasons why some people choose not to be a member.... " Really? Nobody ever thought about that. 'Better let MBA know.
yep,there's no getting through to them,waste of time and money
I can understand the belief that allowing illuminated knocks will open up a can of worms on other electronic devices therefore making it less "primitive." If that is the MBA's big concern why do they allow compound bows at all? Talk about opening a can of worms! 360 FPS?? 100 plus yard shots?? The can of worms has been open for a long time.
Another reason I can't get myself to support the MBA is the fact they don't allow disabled hunters to use crossbows. They require these contraptions to be mounted on COMPOUND BOWS and are still not usable for some of these hunters. Get with the times and quit letting your ego get in the way of allowing ALL hunters to enjoy these opportunities!
Then move to Wyoming. Crossbows are allowed and you can have your free for all style of hunting. That is IF YOU CAN DRAW a tag in areas that have any decent public access for those without horses. Yes most everywhere is a draw tag. OTC is a joke for success.
SBH the F&G didn't ask for permits the MBA did.
Dr. Bob- This thread was started last April in regards to joining the MBA. What are you talking about?