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Lighted nocks in Montana

Allow Use of Lighted Nocks on Archery Equipment - Proposed

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The MBA Has asked the Montana Fish and game to put a proposel to allow lighted nocks in Montana The MBA had two votes of there membership it passed twice 62% to 38% I would not hunt with out one myself After taking three deer in the Montana general season All three animals were found only one the arrow was still in it the other two both were pass throw But by being able to find my arrow told me what the arrow hit. It does not do anything to let you shoot after shooting hours or over. It just helps finding your arrow

Sent in my comments. The arrow does not lie. I am sure there are hunters that have thought they missed because there was not immediate blood. But if they could have found their arrow they would have known that they did hit the animal and could have searched a little harder and made a successful retrieval. Instead they went on there way to find another. Not saying that the lighted nock will make it a 100% success on finding your animal, but anything to help is worth it.

Montana's generous hunting opportunities soon to be seen as dust in the wind as the tide of technology rolls in and floods the seasons...........

I think in most cases they should be Required

Required? Lol, that's funny right there!

"Montana's generous hunting opportunities soon to be seen as dust in the wind as the tide of technology rolls in and floods the seasons..........." And there's no joy in "I told ya so."

I have personally been in situations where a lighted nock would have saved me hours in looking for my arrow especially in thick nasty country. I hope that it passes this time.

Well to come up with Lighted nocks hurting Bow hunting that's a far reach It only helps to find your arrow after the shot. And the day after Bow season is over you can use them in the general season. And as far as I heard the harvest numbers have not jumped.

I've been hearing this "sky is falling" story for years and years and years and years. If the modern compound bow, rangefinders, release aids, ozonics, scentlock clothes, and on and on and on haven't resulted in a shorter archery season, I doubt very much if a lighted nock will. Outfitters aren't going to sit back and allow archery season to be shortened and neither is the F&G. If you haven't already figured it out, the F&G is all about generating revenue. If they can find a way to sell more licenses, they're going to do it. We used to be able to use an unused tag for late season damage hunts.. Can't do that any more...they make us buy another tag. Ditto for the "Shoulder Seasons" they came up with.

All you have to do is look back in time and follow the restrictions and reductions that have been put in place. Less mule deer have equaled greater restrictions. Less elk in some areas have equaled less tags and more restrictions. Only a fool fails to see what is being written on the wall in front of their eyes. Montana may very well always have the best hunting bu then think back when you played sports and your very "best" wasn't near good enough.

"We used to be able to use an unused tag for late season damage hunts.. Can't do that any more...they make us buy another tag. Ditto for the "Shoulder Seasons" they came up with." That is false. In many, if not most hunting districts, your general elk tag is still valid for late season damage hunts and for shoulder season hunts. The right to express a negative opinion regarding FWP does not include disseminating false information.

Take a look at region 2. A "B" license is required to hunt the Shoulder season there and it is issued by a drawing... You cannot use your "A" tag to hunt the shoulder season there. The F&G could have issued a set number of permits that are valid with an "A" tag, but they chose to sell "B" tags through a drawing instead. That's the district I was looking at. I can guarantee you that I've had to purchase an extra "B" tag to hunt whitetail deer (damage) hunt in the past.. My "A" tag was not valid.

But that is neither here nor there regarding lighted nocks... Regarding less deer and less elk and fewer tags, that has nothing to do with technological advances in archery equipment or hunting equipment in general. It has more to do with the loss of habitat, predators (wolves), and the cyclical nature of Mule Deer populations. Around here, Mule Deer numbers are far above the long term average, but we have no wolves and very little development (loss of habitat). Hunters are out there with their magnum rifles, high tech scopes, rangefinders, and who knows what else, but the population continues to grow and our season has been 5 weeks long for as long as I can remember.

"In many, if not most hunting districts, your general elk tag is still valid for late season damage hunts and for shoulder season hunts." True. You cited the few exceptions.

"But that is neither here nor there regarding lighted nocks." Also true. So why bash FWP about selling licenses / tags?! Let's support the funding, rather than criticizing and nit-picking an agency which is challenged in every aspect of managing wildlife and hunting on our behalf.

You know after fighting for over 30 years I have just had it I will no longer fight for the F&G or the MBA or any other Sportsmans group I no longer care. what any of them do. I'm going to do what I want to and don't care what the group wants. I'm to old for this crap.

Dan- Don't let em get you down! You've done a ton for bowhunters in MT. Thank you for your service to us and our sport. Hang in there!!

With proposed new bills adverse to the best interests of hunters, wildlife, outdoor recreation, public lands, and public access likely to emerge in the upcoming legislative and congressional sessions ... now is not the time to throw in the towel! Now is the time to roll up your sleeves in commitment to protecting Montana's values.

Lighted nocks should have been allowed a long time ago. Allowing the use of a lighted nock that allows you to better see your impact, find your arrow, and only aids in the recovery of game. There is no good reason why shouldn't be allowed. It's been coming up for a vote consistently, and it would seem more are in favor for than against. I will be sending comments in supporting it.

When someone is trying to kick in your door you don't crack it open to see who it is. Now if you are the one trying to kick it in then of course you welcome that little opening. Lighted nocks are nothing more than an opening for high tech to walk in and lead the way for another easier hunting experience/success.

Plenty that is the dumbest thing you ever posted on here there is no opening that lighted nocks would bust open the dam. Were the only state in the Us were there not allowed to use and that's only 45 days a year.

Dan that is the most ignorant thing you have ever posted. Take a look at the other states and see what they allow. Start in Wyoming. (hint look at the crossbow and go up the ladder from there since Wyoming is right next door). High tech abounds throughout the archery stores and they can't wait to push it into your lap while sitting in your treestand. People just refuse to make the connections.

Cross guns and lighted nocks are miles apart. I hunted Wyoming twice and I never seen a cross bow out in the field I did see one in the back of a ranger road hunting. in Wyoming cross bows have been legal long before lighted sights. nocks, There fish and game did not vote to make it legal there Legislature did the same thing that is going to happen here

You missed the point. here is a race to make bowhunting easier through weapons choice, technology through gadgetry and so on. LIghted nocks are the business end of this and denying it is being short sighted. I have spent more than a couple seasons chasing animals during bow season in Wyoming. I grew up in Montana and miss it much and still follow what is happening. WHY? Because it has been the leader in protecting bowhunting nation wide. I will drop out now because I am sure many will be angered because a "Wyomingite" is having views about Montana hunting. Just remember boys be DAMNED careful of what you ask for as you may not like the results.

There will not be one more animal taken do to lighted nocks. But there will be many recovered do to lighted nocks.

Is the bow hunting success In Wyoming higher in Wyoming than it is in Montana? No and in Wyoming you can use Cross guns, Lighted sights,lighted nocks and trail cams

50 plus yard shots are killing/wounding more game then lighted nocs ever will.

Dan we finally agree on something, bob

Bob I knew some day it mite happen

I personally think the use of a lighted nock while bowhunting shouldn't even be in question here. We as bowhunters are restricted more than rifle hunters are. There is absolutely no restriction on ammunition type when rifle hunting. There is no restriction on caliber. Heck, you could even get away with using a tracer round when hunting with a rifle. When hunting with a bow, a lighted nock in my opinion will only make recovery of the animal and/or identification of where the animal was hit more obvious. What, aside from that, does a lighted nock do? It doesn't ensure a more lethal kill-shot. It doesn't make the animal more dead. It doesn't make the animal drop any sooner. It's just another accessory to add to one's kit. I emailed the 'sponsor' of the new bill attempting to allow the use of lighted nocks and he sent me a format of what the FWP and the MBA looks at for the allowability of equipment use during an archery-only season. The proposal advocating for the use of lighted nocks did say that the FWP and MBA feels the lighted nocks would allow for more more after-shooting-hours game. I think this is a bunch of garbage as well. It's not like they illuminate the game or anything. I mean, I can see not allowing the use of flashlights mounted on your bow, but really?? I for one, would advocate for the use and ability to mount a camera on my bow too. The fact that we have so many ridiculous restrictions is asinine and makes no sense at all.

ThwackAddict, you just made the point when you added the camera statement. So after the lighted nock lobby is successful, then it will be cameras. Then what? Laser sights? Those of us for drawing a line in the sand aren't necessarily against the concept of lighted nocks I don't think; but we are for maintaining what's left of the primitive aspect of bow hunting that was a large part of the basis for being granted a separate archery season in the first place. I recently read an article in Outdoor Life that stated that archery success in the breaks for elk was only 15 percent. I remember when it was about half that not too many years ago. We can argue why that might be the case until we're blue in the face, but I'd argue that it is not because of a sudden improvement in woodsmanship.

cubdrvr, "the primitive aspect of bow hunting?" We're using compound bows, more or less fiber-optic sights, mechanical broadheads, scent-cover and up to 80% let-off. What more traditionality and primitive aspects are you talking about??

ThwackAddict, again you have highlighted the point. Enough is enough! Personally, I don't see the problem with nocks, but as cub expressed, somewhere you have to stop the escalation of archery technology. Otherwise the difference in degree of ease in taking an elk or deer with bow, crossbow, muzzleloader, shotgun, or pistol will become relatively nil, at which time the argument for a separate "primitive" archery season will not be valid.

But again, none of these 'escalations of archery technology' as you put it increase the ease of taking an animal. If I want to mount a GoPro to my bow to video my hunt if I'm hunting solo, why can't I? I mean, if we're talking traditionality, we got away from that when we progressed from a recurve to a compound. None of these concepts make it easier to take an animal with a bow. For instance. The Leupold Vendetta rangefinder that mounts to a bow, it doesn't make it easier to take an animal. Granted I don't see the point of it. I see it as a person thinking they can hold at full-draw and still obtain an accurate range on the animal and I personally can't hold at full-draw as long as I used to be able to. But if I'm hunting by myself, I shouldn't have to worry about getting ticketed for wanting to film the kill-shot on a whitetail deer by putting a camera on my bow. If you're gonna grasp onto and allow technology, it can't be limited here. At some point this has to be part of the discussion too. We're not Amish here (no disrespect to them at all) in that we totally shun technology. And we don't have a separate "primitive" archery season as you stated. We have Archery Season, which allows all forms of archery from the primitive means to the most technologically advanced, carbon-fiber bows, latest in expanding broadheads, 8-pin sights that glow like a street light on a deserted highway and so many other advancements. I figure, to each their own. If someone chooses to hunt with a self-bow then fantastic. If you don't want to use lighted nocks and want to wear buckskin or a breechclout while hunting then so be it. But don't dictate what I can and can't do as well just because you (not you in general but I'm being hypothetical here) believe that it should be done one way. What advantages do these advancements give us in the actual taking of game? Nothing. This is why I think the lighted nock should have been allowed when it was first invented. I believe it makes us more ethical in that it allows those of us who want to use it to see where we hit the animal more clearly. It allows for a better retrieval of the arrow after the shot so no-one else gets hurt by it in the future. I think a camera can do much of the same things. Imagine not knowing where you hit the animal and being able to play it back to see it again so you're more sure about it?! It doesn't make you more lethal. I think it forces us to be more responsible though.

Your rant once again makes the point of the desire to continuously upgrade the archery technology. Some of it enhances ability to take an animal with a bow, some of it not so much. But it's the general perception and the currently recognized difference between those other weapons and "primitive" archery weapons. I am not referring just to traditional recurve or long bows, but also compound bows which most hunters use during the archery season. The argument to justify a separate archery season is that the bows, traditional and compound, are relatively much more primitive than those other weapons. Once technological advances in archery equipment, regardless of the increased effectiveness or lack of increase of effectiveness, reach the point where the general public in this representative democracy view archery as on an equal par with the effectiveness of the other weapons ... then there goes support for a separate more "primitive" weapons (archery) season. In particular, those who advocate for crossbows and muzzleloaders during the archery season are already asserting that improved archery effectiveness puts all those weapons at an even level. You seem to be advocating points on their behalf. If you are willing to allow hunting with crossbows and muzzleloaders during the archery season, then you are doing an excellent job of making the case. You make a solid case for lighted nocks, also for cameras ... and I'm sure you could easily describe the advantages of bow-mounted rangefinders ... but you are missing the point(s) which we have been attempting to express. You are admired for sticking to your advocacy, but as my grandpa said, "If you stick your head in the sand ... then your a$$ is exposed!" ... and bye, bye separate archery season.

Lighted nocks have nothing to do with crossbows or Muzzleloaders and it not going to kill any animals its only going to help hunters recover there animal. I hear this crap over and over. The archery kill on elk in Montana is about 8% and it has not changed in 20 years

No one has disagreed with your points. It is the perception concern and the attitude of the general public toward technological advances in archery that are the issue. You certainly can call those points "crap" if you wish, but it makes them no less valid concerns.

"the primitive aspect of bow hunting"

As 50-70 yard shots become the norm. SMH

The only ones I ever hear making a case for a negative perception and attitude of the general public regarding technology in archery are fellow bow hunters such as yourself, and I talk to a lot of non-hunters about bow hunting. Keep at it and maybe you will give enough folks bullets to start shooting us with. In other words, stop making a big deal about it and it won't be an issue. As for the concern regarding technology possibly negatively impacting the long archery season that we enjoy, again, the only ones making that an issue are other bow hunters with a sky-will-fall mentality. For those of you who have made these arguments, you have constructed a paper tiger out of assumptions that the dam will break loose due to technology enhancements. You guys do realize that the FWP are the ones facilitating this change right? Last time I checked they're the ones that hold the most sway over how long seasons are and what takes place regarding them. Pretty sure if they're on board with lighted nocks they aren't going to turn around and then decide to limit or reduce archery season because of them. Put aside your "what if" theories, and think about it objectively for a minute. You've got a large segment of rifle hunters now into long range shooting and weapons systems, and you don't hear any rifle hunters crying foul out of fear that they might reduce the 5 week long rifle season because rifle scopes, ballistics, calibers, range finders, etc. are just that more deadly now.

Yeah, with all the revenue generated by archery tags, permits, and bow hunters I can really see archery season going "bye, bye" because we've just gotten too advanced. That is patently absurd.

Well said deerslayer

"bye, bye separate archery season." Hello crossbows, muzzleloaders, pistols, and shotguns during the rut. Please don't misinterpret my comments.

The boy crys wolf over and over same story we have gun hunters in are bow seasons now with these shoulder seasons

During the rut of what? Multiple species in this state... Hard to tell which one you're referring to. We already have firearms in "the" rut. Last week of October - end of November.

"During the rut of what?" ELK (Species in rut during the separate archery season.) " ... we have gun hunters in are (sic) bow seasons now with these shoulder seasons" There you go ... so next is separate restricted weapons season ("As 50-70 yard shots become the norm.") to replace separate archery season, with muzzleloaders and crossbows for those with no time to practice with their bows. 'You good with that?

Blaming lighted nocs for potential lost season is just plain silly. Tech advances in bows, sights, rests, rangefinders have made shooting and shooting at long range far easier and easier for new bow hunters.

All of which lead to more game deaths. This, in time will lead to shorter seasons.

Agreed, ... the lighted nocks issue really is a non-starter in this thread, as those other examples of escalating technology and longer range archery shooting are the concerns. I think the consensus is that lighted nocks are not a big deal. The analogy of long range rifle shooting is a red herring, as there are really no other weapons advocates who wish to share the rifle season like crossbows and muzzleloaders wish to share or replace or take from the separate archery only season.

You guys are hilarious. You're making gigantic assumptions and predicting the future as though it is fact, not an opinion. To say that the eventuality is going to be crossbows and muzzleloader during our archery season is pure speculation. As long as it has taken to get FWP on board with lighted knocks it is fair to be highly skeptical that crossbows and muzzleloaders will be next. To listen to you guys it sounds like it's a forgone conclusion anyway! Pretty sure almost every bow hunter in this state would stand on his or her head at the idea of muzzleloaders being allowed congruent with archery season. Basically it sounds like the solution to your proposed assumptions is to lobby for traditional only and pre 1995 compounds during archery season. Probably ought to make range finders and expandable broad heads illegal as well. Maybe then our archery seasons will be safe from the evil muzzleloader and crossbow for all eternity. New hunter recruitment can go the way of the wooly mammoth and 50 yd shots.

'Not sure which concerns you are referring to ... but if mine, then please stop misinterpreting my comments. Read carefully, think, then let your fuze spark a bit before your explosion.

Specifically, the "other weapons advocates who wish to share" has to be really stretched to mean "To say that the eventuality is going to be crossbows and muzzleloader", certainly not implying a "forgone conclusion". Certainly not a forgone conclusion, nor did anyone say it is. However, if you deny that crossbow and muzzleloader advocates are interested in and advocating for hunting during the separate archer season, then you are naive. Furthermore, it was in the context of the poor analogy with rifle season.

I have no trouble allowing lighted knocks. Finding your arrow is important in understanding what you "thought" you hit and where you "actually" hit. Hopefully, they both coincide but in some instances they don't, and finding the arrow is important. Besides the litter issue, no one wants to leave a sharp unseen object laying around to hurt a fellow unsuspecting bow hunter.

My experience here in Florida where we have extremely dense brush is that lighted knocks are highly beneficial. I have equally seen that density of brush in Montana surprisingly enough. Not once has a lighted knock aided me in making a shot, but they have aided me in recovering a harvested animal.

Once the shot is made we have a moral obligation to attempt to recover the game to the best of our abilities and a lighted knock enhances that obligation.

Nicely expressed, Seminole.

I wonder how often bowhunters are loosing arrows after the shot, I don't think I've ever seen it before, unless some are taking some pretty wild shots

"bye, bye separate archery season"

"so next is separate restricted weapons season ("As 50-70 yard shots become the norm.") to replace separate archery season, with muzzleloaders and crossbows for those with no time to practice with their bows. 'You good with that?"

hahaha... Not sure how you think I'm misinterpreting or stretching, let alone exploding....

"if you deny that crossbow and muzzleloader advocates are interested in and advocating for hunting during the separate archer season, then you are naïve"

I'm not being naïve, but I also don't feel that lighted nocks opens the door wide open to a whole host of other things being allowed. Specifically muzzleloaders and crossbows. When you write things like "bye bye separate archery season" it sounds an awful lot like you do believe it is a forgone conclusion it will happen according to the context of your arguments. You state you don't actually believe that, which is fine, but then why use that as an argument to prevent lighted nocks from being legalized? Certainly there will always be a push for more and more technology allowed, it's the age in which we live. But, it is more prudent to take each proposal on a case by case basis, not use the small possibilities that something might happen to bolster your argument. It appears that you're not against lighted nocks in and of themselves, just concerned for what it may lead to, which I can sympathize with, but let's cross one bridge at a time. For now the conversation being that lighted nocks are good for game recovery efforts. When and if the possibilities of what you have referred to become more than mere speculation let's have that discussion then, not now when it doesn't apply.

in the last two years I have shot two bucks with lighted nocks and I found both arrows and recoverd both bucks. three years ago I shot a buck and I was hunting in heavy thick brush I did not find my arrow the next day I went back and I had snow no arrow no blood trail. Never found the deer. it was a 30 yard shot. if I would have been able to find my arrow I mite have found a blood trail. but when you shoot a give your animal a 1/2 hour and its dark. its hard to find the spot if you can't find your arrow.

"When and if the possibilities of what you have referred to become more than mere speculation let's have that discussion then, not now when it doesn't apply." Fair enough; change in the separate archery season is not an issue presently. You likely consider the concerns as "paranoid", but realize that others consider expressing the concerns as "proactive".

"You likely consider the concerns as "paranoid", but realize that others consider expressing the concerns as "proactive"."

That is definitely understandable and I do appreciate the effort to keep our current archery season intact.

You will be able to use lighted nocks in Montana in Archery season starting in 2017 the F&G commission voted to allow them.Public Involvement Process & Results: Public comment was taken from Dec. 9to Jan. 13. We received 1,515 comments with 1,400 in favor of the proposal, 114 against and one comment not on topic. Those in favor, including the Montana Bowhunters Association, cited that lighted nocks do not aid in the hunt but only in arrow and game retrieval and that it is allowed in many other states. Those opposed, including the Flat Earth Traditional Bowhunters of Montana, spoke to the creep of technology in a supposedly primitive sport and that lighted nocks would prompt hunters to take unethical shots in low-light situations. One comment spoke to the need for more weapons restriction areas near towns in flat areas

Great to hear!

So what kind works best?

plenty coup just curious what do you shoot?

I have been shooting Nockturnals myself you can buy non lighted nocks from them that weigh the same as the lighted ones. The red is the brightest

Never used them and not sure what brand is best but folks in other states have had the back of their arrow split and miss animals from the lighted nocks. Not sure what the issue is that can cause this either. By the way, I've found several arrows over the years shed hunting on public land with lighted nocks in them. I guess it's possible to lose those kind too:)

Bigdan, where do you find the non lighted nocks at? I looked on their web page and must have missed them.

I bought mine at Cabelas there clear with weights in them

I agree with BigDan that red is the most visible and "Nocturnals" are an excellent choice for lighted nocks. Another excellent color choice is green.

Glad to see Montana going this way. I think folks who use them will find many benefits to them including finding misplaced shots at low light target practice... :)

I still have that 1 inch piece of reflective tape on my arrow between the nock and the fletch it shines up as good if not better than a e nock but you do have to have a light with you

Dr Bob I sent you a private reply. Why do you ask?

plenty just wondered how primitive you shoot

Halleluja - lighted nocks are allowed in MT. Will have them on my arrows this fall, Thank you to all those who worked on and commented in favor. BigDan you are the man. I would have commented in favor of them but am an out-of-stater and was not aware this was proposed

X2 williamtell. Thank you Dan and all that supported it. My eyesight is getting worse the older I get and can't see my arrow hit the target like I used to.

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