Carbon Express Arrows
Crossbows in NM?
New Mexico
Contributors to this thread:
Oryx35 03-Aug-17
78cj5 03-Aug-17
HDE 03-Aug-17
keepemsharp 04-Aug-17
smarba 04-Aug-17
smarba 04-Aug-17
Flyfishfreak 04-Aug-17
Oryx35 04-Aug-17
mrelite 04-Aug-17
smarba 04-Aug-17
HDE 04-Aug-17
Barrera 06-Aug-17
arctichill 06-Aug-17
78cj5 06-Aug-17
78cj5 06-Aug-17
HDE 06-Aug-17
78cj5 06-Aug-17
HDE 06-Aug-17
mrelite 06-Aug-17
Z Barebow 07-Aug-17
smarba 07-Aug-17
Dyjack 07-Aug-17
Bowbaker 07-Aug-17
Barrera 07-Aug-17
Barrera 07-Aug-17
Z Barebow 07-Aug-17
arctichill 07-Aug-17
Oryx35 07-Aug-17
mrelite 08-Aug-17
arctichill 08-Aug-17
arctichill 08-Aug-17
Oryx35 09-Aug-17
arctichill 09-Aug-17
arctichill 09-Aug-17
arctichill 09-Aug-17
78cj5 10-Aug-17
arctichill 10-Aug-17
ohiohunter 10-Aug-17
HDE 10-Aug-17
mrelite 10-Aug-17
Barrera 10-Aug-17
HDE 10-Aug-17
Oryx35 11-Aug-17
raceguy 12-Aug-17
Muddyboots 12-Aug-17
arctichill 14-Aug-17
HDE 14-Aug-17
arctichill 14-Aug-17
HDE 15-Aug-17
earlyriser 19-Aug-17
raceguy 03-Sep-17
keepemsharp 15-Sep-17
Habitat1 18-Sep-17
Dyjack 20-Sep-17
Ned 17-Dec-17
ohiohunter 18-Dec-17
dkbs 06-Jan-18
ohiohunter 08-Jan-18
smarba 30-Jan-18
WapitiBob 31-Jan-18
ohiohunter 31-Jan-18
smarba 01-Feb-18
HDE 01-Feb-18
WapitiBob 01-Feb-18
trophyhill 01-Feb-18
WapitiBob 01-Feb-18
HDE 01-Feb-18
raceguy 02-Feb-18
smarba 02-Feb-18
raceguy 02-Feb-18
mrelite 02-Feb-18
trophyhill 02-Feb-18
priley 03-Feb-18
82ndreddevil 03-Feb-18
trophyhill 03-Feb-18
mrelite 03-Feb-18
mrelite 03-Feb-18
82ndreddevil 03-Feb-18
Wapiti Hunter 03-Feb-18
mrelite 03-Feb-18
priley 03-Feb-18
trophyhill 03-Feb-18
priley 03-Feb-18
priley 03-Feb-18
priley 03-Feb-18
HDE 03-Feb-18
trophyhill 03-Feb-18
priley 04-Feb-18
trophyhill 04-Feb-18
ohiohunter 04-Feb-18
trophyhill 04-Feb-18
mrelite 04-Feb-18
trophyhill 05-Feb-18
HDE 05-Feb-18
From: Oryx35
03-Aug-17

Oryx35's Link
Just a heads up, it looks like the Game Commission will be taking up a discussion on whether or not to allow additional crossbow use in the archery seasons. Background can be found in the June 22nd meeting minutes.

From: 78cj5
03-Aug-17
Thanks. They are already legal for any weapon seasons and muzzle loader seasons.

From: HDE
03-Aug-17
Finally

From: keepemsharp
04-Aug-17
Apparently NM is where the crossgun people are spending their money this year. Good luck. chip-chip-chip

From: smarba
04-Aug-17
Finally?! You think the draw odds are bad for archery hunts now, wait until all the rifle hunters pick up Xbows and start applying :o(

From: smarba
04-Aug-17
With Xbows like Ravin advertising 100-yard groups, success rates will skyrocket and tag numbers will be cut for double-whammy of plummeting draw odds for archery.

Very, very bad thing for bowhunters IMO.

Totally fine to use them during muzzle & rifle seasons. But hardly anybody does because nobody picks up an xbow for the "romance" of shooting a primitive weapon. They pick it up for one reason: to hunt in bow seasons without having to be a bowhunter/archer. They are lazy. An extremly few minority do it becuase of injury or health. While I'm sympathetic in those cases, IMO even that should not be allowed.

I may not have the ability to complete a marathon. The olympic rules don't allow me to use a motor scooter just because I want to participate. There's nothing taht says that everyone should be able to do everything. It's called life.

From: Flyfishfreak
04-Aug-17
Crossbows should not be allowed during regular archery hunts. I don't care if you can't draw your bow for WHAT EVER reason, that is why there is muzzle loader and rifle hunts! If you drew a tag and now have a bad shoulder , its life and its not always fare , but if you cannot draw your bow , in my opinion you have just run into some unfortunate circumstances, but thats a you problem. Im sick and tired of all the people wanting to hunt archery season with crossbows! Its just like the mobility impaired certifications , so many people abuse this, they go to thier doctor and basically lie, get the cert signed and now they get to apply for MI hunts when they are not MI Hunters....I know a guy 35 years olds who has planter fasiatus (spelling is off) and got his MI signed.My dad is 68 , has had 3 back surgeries and a hip surgery....Its total bull crapp the abuse and dishonesty among outdoorsman....Sorry about my rant but Im sick of buttholess who cheat the system to get tags!

From: Oryx35
04-Aug-17
Well stated smarba.

From: mrelite
04-Aug-17
I couldn't agree more, cross bows have no place in archery hunts, it's just not archery!

From: smarba
04-Aug-17
I have one for our daughter. She used it for antelope (during a rifle season) and turkeys (during any weapon season). It was a way to bridge the gap when she wasn't thrilled with firing a rifle even with ear muffs and no way ready to use a bow.

Consequently I shot it to get it sighted in, etc. It's a solid brand name and good quality. But honestly it's a PITA to hunt with. It's heavy, unweildy, impossible to cock or reload quickly. Zero advantages over a bow EXCEPT that anyone (daughter is case in point) can pick it up and be deadly immediatly.

Nobody uses an Xbow because it's "fun", "challenging", etc. They were invented (or rather reinvented in the modern era) solely to be used during archery season by people too lazy to learn how to shoot a bow (which, face it, given modern technology of bows is not very difficult to master).

People looked at the typically better odds of drawing archery tags and thought "hmmm. how can I get me a piece of that?" Xbow manufacturers pushed like mad because getting them into archery season means more sales.

Places back east where you can shoot 5-10 deer, the Xbow isn't yet having a huge adverse impact, but out west where tags are extremely hard to come by it's going to be felt immediately.

Maybe we can avoid the mess by going back to the system where you have to make all 3 hunt choices the same weapon? That would greatly reduce the number of dedicated Xbow "hunters" because at heart they're mostly rifle hunters. That list a muzzle choice because those tags are a little easier to draw and thanks to modern 500-yard muzzle guns it's the same as a rifle (almost nobody "romantically" chooses to use an actual Kentucky Musket anymore do they?). Then they put a bow tag 3rd choice because those are still easier to draw. Those are the guys you see in the archery shop a few weeks (or less) before archery season buying archery tackle "because they drew a tag".

There used to be at least some merit in the argument that Xbows were a short range weapon BEFORE Ravin's new Xbow that is literally advertised as "Meet your new rifle" with 100-yard accuracy. Plenty of other companies will follow suit with that technology and accuracy. We need to put our foot down somewhere.

From: HDE
04-Aug-17
Oh, sorry. Got distracted and must've hit submit before I proofread.

Finally!! A topic to yap about besides LO tags, FOC, and mechanical broadhead threads.

Same 'ol arguement - crossbows have no place in archery. Next...

From: Barrera
06-Aug-17
Agree with HDE post 100%. On this site crossbows are a negative idea for sure. I'm all against crossbows during Sept but this same topic on other sites will all in for them. Just depends which side of the string your on.

From: arctichill
06-Aug-17
The people who prefer their string to be vertical will have to work together and get involved in this issue to make sure that we keep rifle-bows out of archery season.

From: 78cj5
06-Aug-17
The whole problem is the commission wants to make it "easier" for women and youth to be able to hunt. They are not going to increase any tags. So they are just going to make draw odds go down for everybody. My take is let those who want to hunt be able to hunt how they want to. We have a primitive muzzle loader hunt for those who want open sights, no inlines, round balls with patches ,etc.. So make a cross bow only hunt by taking a unit like 34 where they added 900? cow tags and have a cross bow only hunt for antler less elk. See how willing they are to hunt without being able to kill a bull elk. I will shoot a cow elk no problem but I won't do it with a crossbow.

From: 78cj5
06-Aug-17
Next Commissioner Meeting is in Albq. at the Pyramid on Aug. 24th. I believe. Time to start making our voices heard.

From: HDE
06-Aug-17
But I thought the lottery system was the most fair? Same chance for all, right...?

From: 78cj5
06-Aug-17
Yes.....especially without BP or PP. The whole thing I got from reading the minutes was women and kids have a hard time pulling back a vertical bow, can't shoot a rifle or ML so with crossbows they can enter the draw. Well they could do that right now under any weapon or ML hunt. Never mind my daughters were shooting a .50 ML for elk at 10 years old, shooting my .270 Win. and 20 gauge for turkey at 11.

From: HDE
06-Aug-17
Whatever it takes to generate revenue. It's not about increasing opportunity...

I suppose that is why some states have an age restriction. I can see the wisdom in that, not that I agree with it.

From: mrelite
06-Aug-17
IMO the women and kids thing doesn't hold water, every bow manufacturer makes bows that work for just about any man woman or child and if you can't pull one back then one needs to practice and build the muscles to make them efficient with their bow. The effort it takes to learn something is slowly slipping away from society!

"I don't want to put forth the effort and I want to be subsidized with something that pacifies my need to be instantly gratified"

It's enough to make me want to puke

From: Z Barebow
07-Aug-17
78cj5 captured my thoughts exactly. They want to add the number of people applying for the same amount of tags?

I will admit, I know very little about X Bows. I have never shot a X Bow. Aren't the shooting weights 125-150 lbs? Maybe I am off base, but how does the energy put into cocking differ from a compound? I realize the cocking process offers some leverage. But the wheels on a compound offer a mechanical advantage also.

How does the argument to aid women and children hold water? (Unless someone else cocks the X Bow for them)?

From: smarba
07-Aug-17
Didn't follow all of your thoughts Z Barebow, but yes, in my case with daughter, I cock the Xbow for her. No way she could do it on her own. However, some of the Xbows available can be cocked with ratchet style crank and even air, so can be cocked by anybody.

Xbows are 150+lb draw weight. They are all but impossible to cock by hand. Using some sort of pulley style rope device that reduces the effort is the way they are cocked.

From: Dyjack
07-Aug-17
Is there some way we can reach them by letter, or something to state our opinion on it?

From: Bowbaker
07-Aug-17
Giving away my age but, I recall many of the same arguments when compounds came along. For the record I have and shoot both trad and a compound.

From: Barrera
07-Aug-17
Going to be interesting to see the outcome. If it goes through well fund out real quick if it was to benefit women and youth. I doubt it think they're just using women and youth as leverage. My son is 13 and is doing a archery elk hunt this September. It will be a bummer to see all the x bows during Sept for sure.

From: Barrera
07-Aug-17
Got to thinking I know of a individual at the top in g&f who hasn't drawn her rifle elk tag.

From: Z Barebow
07-Aug-17
Thanks Carl. Sorry for fragmented questions.

So it sounds like anyone could cock a Xbox, with proper "tool".

Fundamentally this is a solution in search of a problem. It is highly unlikely women and children has been deprived of bow hunting opportunity. This is a transparent excuse to appease Xbox lobby. More bow hunting opportunities are stifled by inability to draw a tag vs weapon limitations.

From: arctichill
07-Aug-17
Dyjack,

The United Bowhunters of New Mexico will be vigilant as we fight to keep crossbows out of archery season.

From: Oryx35
07-Aug-17
Dyjack, Letters can be sent directly to the Commissioners' official address (listed on the Game and Fish website), but it does also sound like they may open up the question for public comment. If a comment period is opened I will certainly post it to bowsite.

arcticchill, What's the status of United Bowhunters of New Mexico? I see plenty of activity on Facebook, but the original website appears to be defunct.

From: mrelite
08-Aug-17
It was an expense that wasn't paying for itself

From: arctichill
08-Aug-17
As mrelite indicated, the website failed the ROI test. Everything we do as an organization is an investment into our mission statement "The mission of the United Bowhunters of New Mexico is to preserve bowhunting, advance bowhunting interests and to work with other hunting organizations in protecting the future of all hunting for generations to come."

The financial investment to maintain the website exceeded the return the website provided. We had two options, spend more money on the website in an effort to make it more effective or redirect our communication activities through other platforms [Facebook as an example] that cost no money and reach a greater audience.

As for the status of the UBNM, we're doing our best to represent NM bowhunters as one of the only 501c4 [politically active] sportsmen groups in the State. We've recently endorsed Garrett VeneKlasen for State Land Commissioner.

Pat Lyons was probably the most corrupt Land Commissioner in the history of our State! Research "White's Peak Sale" if you aren't already familiar. Lyons is running for the position. Ray Powell [who also recently held the position] is running as well. During his last term Ray wanted to ban ALL hunting of non-game species on State Trust Lands. This would have eliminated our ability to hunt coyotes, feral hogs and even rabbits on State Trust Lands. After a powerful blowback from sportsmen he "only" managed to succeed in eliminating hunting [coyote] contests on State Trust Lands. Ray is quickly gaining popularity among animal rights activist groups.

Garrett on the other hand has promised to open up camping on State Trust Lands! The State Land Commissioner has the full authority to do that. Garrett says he'll do it his first day in office.

If you want to learn more about this specific issue plan to join the UBNM as we host Randy Newberg [Bigfin on Bowsite] in Albuquerque on the evening of August 28th. Mark it on your calendars and stay tuned for more information.

From: arctichill
08-Aug-17

arctichill's Link

From: Oryx35
09-Aug-17
I'm certainly not a fan of Dunn, and I do remember both Lyons and Powell. VeneKlasen will have my support. I've penciled in August 28th. Assuming my wife isn't in labor, I'll plan to attend. Is this a UBNM specific event, or will it be co-hosted with BHA? Either way, I'll see if I can't get a couple of buddies to come too.

From: arctichill
09-Aug-17
While UBNM and BHA often work closely together, the BHA is not able to engage politically. The UBNM organized and is hosting this event, but it is not specific to UBNM. Every supporter of VeneKlasen and those who support access to State Trust Land are welcome to attend.

A ticket is required. I'll post a link for people who wish to purchase a ticket to attend the event.

From: arctichill
09-Aug-17
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/gvk8.28.17

From: arctichill
09-Aug-17

arctichill's Link

From: 78cj5
10-Aug-17
I wrote a letter that I am getting in tomorrows mail. I personally feel on fighting this but am doing it a different way. I suggest they take the extra 300 antler less elk tags out of Unit 34 and give crossbows their own season like primitive muzzle loader. Either give them August or with muzzle loaders and/or rifles like archery and muzzle loaders in Colorado. I also think with crossbows Bow Hunter Education should be mandatory.

I also have a spreadsheet of the 2017 complete draw odds that list your chance per species based on first choice applicants. I further broke that down into number of tags per weapon choice and number of first choice applicants. Example for elk: 21798 total tags/ 73116 first choice applicants/ 29.81 % chance to get a tag. Rifle 10630 tags/ 39817 applicants/ 26.69% Archery 6859 tags/ 20721 applicants/ 33.10% Muzzle loader 4309 tags/ 12578 applicants/ 34.25%. That is just for first choice applicants and does not take into account 2nd and 3rd choice successful draws. It also does not take into account chances per hunt choice.

From: arctichill
10-Aug-17
Thanks Todd! Time is our most valuable asset and when people like you invest time to get involved it makes a difference.

From: ohiohunter
10-Aug-17
Another argument against xbows would to use the g&f's decision to push back the MZ season due to the overwhelming success, at least that's how it was explained to me. If that change was made to preserve the herd then to turn around and allow xbows during sept is a complete contradiction.

This will no doubt increase xbows popularity in NM which will lead to more poaching in problem areas (or create new), an issue that we feel is not appropriately handled when the offenders are dealt small fines and slaps on the hand.

From: HDE
10-Aug-17
A crossbow only has the advantage if pre-cocked and loaded OR waiting to shoot when the animal steps out from behind a tree (1-5 min wait?).

I don't necessarily think that because it is shot rifle-ish that it will make a success rate go up - that would assume everyone who draws an "archery" tag uses a crossbow. The only thing it will do, as mentioned, is decrease the chances of draw even worse than they are now from the influx of perhaps what may be less skilled archers.

A separate Xbow season taken from the firearm pool in certain units would be the best proposal.

From: mrelite
10-Aug-17
The only pool taken from would be the bow hunter pool, muzzle hunters and rifle hunters want them out of their pools as much as we do not want them in ours, a separate x bow season would come from the detriment of bow opportunities not rifle or muzzle

From: Barrera
10-Aug-17
Wander if they will then allow magnification sights during archery to allow scopes for the xbows? Don't think xbows would be very popular if the hunters who prefer rifles can't have thier scopes. Dang it it's going to be a mess.

From: HDE
10-Aug-17
"A separate Xbow season taken from the firearm pool in CERTAIN units would be the BEST proposal."

Would've used italics and/or underlined, but I don't have that option...

From: Oryx35
11-Aug-17
Barrera, Game and Fish is already amending the magnification rule for archery seasons.

From: raceguy
12-Aug-17
Unfortunately this was started a few years ago when x-bow's were added to the any legal weapon pool. Nobody really cared or opposed it. However, give an inch and they will take a mile. Somebody once thought it would be a good idea to give a few ranchers some tags for their trouble. How's that working out now?

From: Muddyboots
12-Aug-17
It took a bit of time, but I just mailed a letter to each commissioner requesting they do not permit crossbows in the archery seasons. I hope they will at least look at what I sent.

From: arctichill
14-Aug-17
If every Bowhunter did what Muddyboots just did, we would have nothing to worry about.

From: HDE
14-Aug-17
^^^ I would agree if commissioners had to face the "firing squad" of the electorate every few years...

From: arctichill
14-Aug-17
While we can't effectively "fire" on the commissioners since we don't elect them, we can damned sure "fire" at the Governor about the commissioners.

From: HDE
15-Aug-17
Governors are traditionally put into office in this state by an electorate that puts hunting of anykind in a distant 5th place at best. Most of NMicos Governors haven't worried too much about upsetting the hunting crowd.

If Steve Pierce runs, I think he'll have a snowballs chance after 12 yrs of Republican "rule" in the Roundhouse...

I would focus on my local (state) reps, not the Gov'r or game commission.

From: earlyriser
19-Aug-17
F'n cross bows.... as if draw odds weren't bad enough. It's funny when politicians generally could care less about hunters and their opinions. It's the second highest, behind oil and gas, revenue generator in this state. 5th on priority list. It's number one on mine:)

From: raceguy
03-Sep-17

raceguy's Link
The link shows the proposed rules, including modifying bows to allow scopes. Still taking public input.

From: keepemsharp
15-Sep-17
Good luck people, many states have fought this battle and I believe all have lost. the crossgun people and the people that want to sell them speak louder than license buyers.

From: Habitat1
18-Sep-17
And yes the success rates go up,check out any state that actually does check in

From: Dyjack
20-Sep-17
This would be insane.. I sent an email. Really hope it doesn't pass. I can understand the peeps that help with poor vision, but crossbows should stay mobility impaired.

From: Ned
17-Dec-17
crossguns have ruined the archery hunting in Ohio on public land, IMO.

From: ohiohunter
18-Dec-17
Disastrous! If you think poaching is a problem, add a crossbow to the mix and it'll go off the charts. If they are allowed eventually tag #'s will/should drop as archery season success increases, therefore there is no benefit, only detriment.

From: dkbs
06-Jan-18
Crossbows definitely made it more crowded on the public land I bowhunt in Wisconsin. If your a rifle hunter and want to hunt the rut, just get a crossbow.

From: ohiohunter
08-Jan-18
Exactly dkbs, if you want to hunt the rut AND increase your draw odds... grab a crossbow.

From: smarba
30-Jan-18

smarba's Link
Check the main forum about the Airbow (air powered gun that shoots an arrow) has now been legalized during archery season in Virginia. This is an appalling trend that we need to try to keep ahead of in NM.

From: WapitiBob
31-Jan-18
Wyoming has been using crossbows in their archery season for the last 40 years.

They've decimated the game herds to such an extent , I can only shoot 3 Elk, 6 Antelope, and 6 Deer in a single year.

From: ohiohunter
31-Jan-18
The severe ignorance of your post doesn't deserve a rebuttal.

From: smarba
01-Feb-18
WapitiBob is far from ignorant. His post did surprise me and I was not aware that WY allowed Xbows during archery.

I searched WY and turned up these question/answers:

•Are crossbows legal during the archery hunt? Yes, as long as they conform to certain specifications. Crossbows must have a minimum draw length of 90 lbs. and the bolt must be at least 16 inches long. The broadhead requirement is the same as with conventional archery equipment and must have a minimum cutting width of one inch. •Are scopes legal on crossbows? Yes…scopes are legal. •Is a cocking lever allowed to cock a crossbow? Yes…the old regulation requiring crossbows to be cocked by hand without aid of a leverage gaining device is no longer applicable

I honestly don't think Xbows are a GAME CHANGER with regards to harvest success. I got one for my daughter to use for turkey & pronghorn (during "any weapon" seasons) and frankly it's cumbersome, no more accurate than my compound and generally a PITA that is not my weapon of choice.

HOWEVER, I do foresee rifle hunters jumping in with them as an easy way to take part in bow season and it will become harder to draw bow tags with a big influx of xbow hunters added to the mix if xbows are allowed like other states are going to.

Is decreased draw odds being selfish on my part? I don't think so, as Xbow and Airbow aren't bows.

From: HDE
01-Feb-18
It will lose its appeal once rifle hunters realize they can't walk around the hills with a bolt cocked, locked, and ready to rock. NMDGF will have to rewrite the archery rules to allow drawing and holding devices to allow that.

I doubt they make that change. Check the spelling of a word on page 53 of the proc...

From: WapitiBob
01-Feb-18
Yes Carl, 40 years and the data speaks for itself. I have been against them in archery season for my hunting life but when you look at the data from a Western state (Wyoming) the doom and gloom isn't warranted. I would have guessed the opposite but for Wyoming, it just isn't so. I suspect is has to do with the way we hunt out here vs a Whitetail state.

Over those 40 years the harvest/success is on par with the normal increase we've seen across the West as archery equipment/archers skill levels increased in general. There has been no detrimental affects to herd numbers, the archery/crossbow take is insignificant. Would the same be true in NM? I don't know but I think waterholes and blinds are used more in NM than WY so that may add to a bit of an increase. Guys runnin and gunnin for Bulls with a crossbow or sneaking on a Buck certainly aren't going to be any major factor. Other than some old guys like me, everybody seems to think 60 yards is a normal bow shot nowadays.

From: trophyhill
01-Feb-18
Bob's right. However increased competition drawing tags doesn't do any of us any good.....

From: WapitiBob
01-Feb-18
True, but I'll take the increase in tag competition if it means new hunters are joining our ranks.

From: HDE
01-Feb-18
Unless the overall number of applications increases, the draw odds will remain the same, initially.

Die hard rifle (and muzzleloader) hunters will continue to put in for their respective weapon of choice, just like bowhunters do. It's the fence setters and indifferent ones that would try an archery tag with a crossbow - the ones you're really competing with for an archery tag and may not necessarily swell the hunting ranks.

From: raceguy
02-Feb-18
I could see odds for archery initially changing, maybe not by a landslide though. People may start kicking in their 2nd or 3rd choices for crossbow, as its easy to set up and you can put a scope on it.

We already see some of this as bow sales at local shops increase "after" someone draws a tag. They have never shot a bow in their life, but kicked in an archery tag on their app. then head to the local bowshop to buy a bow and arrows with no idea of how to use it or proper shot placement in the field, with just a few months to figure it out.

With due respect to others, I just don't see it as a way to get more hunters involved here in NM. I'm all in for getting more involved, unfortunately in the west there are limited tags and it might take years to get drawn. A crossbow sitting in a closet waiting to be used on an elk or deer doesn't help.

From: smarba
02-Feb-18
I don't see it as a way of enticing NEW hunters. All I see is a way of enticing existing rifle/muzzle hunters to shift to an easy weapon for a crack at a "slightly" easier drawing odds pool. Very little new hunter recruitment, just rewarding "lazy" hunters who don't want to take the time or effort to learn bowhunting but want a crack at bow tags.

As WapitiBob points out, runnin' and gunnin' with xbow isn't going to be overly effective, but sniping at waterholes could make a big impact on success rate, thus potentially reduce tag numbers.

Perhaps I'm being somewhat hypocritical because I initially started bowhunting because tags were easier to draw. But then I became hooked and now I bowhunt for a myriad of reasons related to the challenge, the method, etc.

So is not wanting xbow/airbow because it will reduce draw odds wrong? We all want a tag, but supply and demand simply cannot sustain tags for everyone.

Every single weapon has gotten crazy. Rifle hunters are shooting 900+, muzzle hunters are shooting 300+, bowhunters are shooting 100 these days. Or at least they THINK they can. Everyone is looking for the easiest way to kill something. Method be damned.

I can sypmpathize with the stickbow guys because I shot recurve for many years but switched to compound because it was more accurate and I could be consistent with less practice. Now guys are pushing xbow because it's more accurate and consistent with almost zero practice...

From: raceguy
02-Feb-18
I don't think you are being hypocritical at all Smarba. Bowhunting should be easier to draw because its the hardest to master and has the lowest harvest rate. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

I got into it years ago, prior to the draw. Archery deer season lasted for months with a small break between fall and winter. I would literally have my bow and gear in my truck and leave right after high school sixth period and head strait to the Sandia foothills for an evening hunt. The good old days.....

From: mrelite
02-Feb-18
Well said Smarba and raceguy!

From: trophyhill
02-Feb-18
Hey I started out that way. Drew a tag, bought a bow in June after the draw, went hunting in September. Been a helluva ride ever since ;)

From: priley
03-Feb-18
trophyhill you drew a archery tag before you ever owned a bow or started bow hunting ? Is that what you just said ?

YOU SUCK !!!

03-Feb-18
Agreed! I can’t believe some of these people just buy a bow after they draw an archery tag. It’s like they are not interested enough in archery to pick up a bow unless they draw a tag. These are the people that don’t have the sense to broadhead tune and take 100 yard shots at animals.

From: trophyhill
03-Feb-18
Lol Priley, yes I'm one of those guys that many complain about :) became very good at shooting it in 3 months time too. Never missed a day until it was time to hunt in September. Unfortunately I knew nothing about elk but came away from that hunt an addict ;)

From: mrelite
03-Feb-18
I hope you guys know Trophyhill and are just egging him for fun! but just incase you are not, he has been a stellar and active representative for archery in NM ever since that day he drew his first archery tag, these are the type of bow hunters we need more of.

Even though Trophyhill came from multi weapon Apps I would still like to see one weapon applications and I agree that if someone is interested in archery one weapon apps wouldn't or shouldn't deter many from jumping in if they truly wanted to archery hunt, there is nothing wrong with requiring someone to pick one or the other, the opportunity to apply hasn't been taken away.

LOL I am sure that trophyhill would have eventually applied for an archery hunt on a one weapon App.

From: mrelite
03-Feb-18
I also wanted to add that there are good and bad hunters in every group, stupid and careless doesn't discriminate, a good hunter will put out the effort to be efficient with whatever their choice of weapon is and a bad hunter won't.

03-Feb-18
Sorry, not aware of Trophy ridge other than his statement. He was very convincing at playing some of these guys that want magnification sights for bow hunting. If anyone is offended by that statement I apologize not for the statement but that you are offended

03-Feb-18
With all due respect, I don't really care how crossbows have affected (or not) Wyoming's bow season (or any other state for that matter). We don't allow them during the archery season in New Mexico and we should never allow them during archery season in New Mexico. Hi-tech bows and gadgets have already taken over archery. It's no longer the "primitive" sport it once was. We've already allowed way too much technology to creep into the "simple" sport of bowhunting!

Mike

From: mrelite
03-Feb-18
No worries 82nd, I just wanted to bring up that you never know where a good bowhunter will come from and where they come from doesn't necessarily determine what type of hunter they are.

Yep NM isn't Wyoming, we don't have near the amount of animals or tags they do. The last thing I want to see is a crossbow hunter sitting in a blind or tree stand at every dirt tank because that is about the only place they would hunt with a crossbow, it's an ambush/non mobile weapon only.

From: priley
03-Feb-18
hahaha , trophyhill I lost my first bow in a divorce but I still had my deer tag so when January rolled around I loaded up and headed to Pinon. Stopped in Roswell and bought a Hoyt Tenacity II. Next day I shot and tuned the bow and set up a couple blinds over water. Next morning I harvested my first mule deer buck. Second year bow hunting and I haven't picked up a rifle since.

From: trophyhill
03-Feb-18
Right on Priley.

JP, thanks fir the kind words.

In 2008 (my first year bowhunting) I applied archery across the board for deer and elk. Got lucky and drew both elk and deer. When January rolled around, I had no idea we had such big mule deer in NM. When rifle hunting I'd see a giant once every few years but they were always 600 yards and running for the edge of the horizon lol.

From: priley
03-Feb-18
I've had four rotator repairs on my right shoulder and one repair on my left shoulder. Every year it gets harder and harder to draw my bow. My surgeon offered to sign the paper work for a crossbow two years ago. It took me about two seconds to say no thankyou. Something about a mid evil weapon turns me off.

I personally don't think we need to include crossbows to the archery seasons. Mobility impaired hunters thats fine, but we already have any legal weapon seasons that cross bows fit nicely into.

jmho

From: priley
03-Feb-18
I've had four rotator repairs on my right shoulder and one repair on my left shoulder. Every year it gets harder and harder to draw my bow. My surgeon offered to sign the paper work for a crossbow two years ago. It took me about two seconds to say no thankyou. Something about a mid evil weapon turns me off.

I personally don't think we need to include crossbows to the archery seasons. Mobility impaired hunters thats fine, but we already have any legal weapon seasons that cross bows fit nicely into.

jmho

From: priley
03-Feb-18
I've had four rotator repairs on my right shoulder and one repair on my left shoulder. Every year it gets harder and harder to draw my bow. My surgeon offered to sign the paper work for a crossbow two years ago. It took me about two seconds to say no thankyou. Something about a mid evil weapon turns me off.

I personally don't think we need to include crossbows to the archery seasons. Mobility impaired hunters thats fine, but we already have any legal weapon seasons that cross bows fit nicely into.

jmho

From: HDE
03-Feb-18
"...and we should never allow them during archery season in New Mexico."

Does that go for a guy with only one arm as well?

From: trophyhill
03-Feb-18
Lol if Priley can find an 82nd Airborne, he may as well have only 1 arm. Cuz he's gonna need another rotator cuff surgery :)

From: priley
04-Feb-18
What the hell is a 82nd airborne and why would I be looking for one? lol

From: trophyhill
04-Feb-18
Lol trust me. You don't want one. It is a bow made by Bowtech for a couple years. It had such a hard draw, it was tearing my shoulder up. It was a real shooter but I got rid of it after only 1 season. Otherwise I was heading down a path of rotator cuff issues lol

From: ohiohunter
04-Feb-18
You would be appalled by the number of people who buy a shotgun the night before ohio gun opener, have it bore sighted, and go hunting the next day. Completely untested weapon.

Handicapped hunter xbow argument is a completely different ball game, but if allowed some will still find a way to screw the system.

No matter which way you flip it comparing WY and NM's elk herd relative to tags allotted per individual is asinine. Most in NM are lucky to get one tag much less 3, thats like comparing a 1deer/year to a 3deer/day state...are you friggin kidding me! Hands down his worst post I've read from him. BTW I said his post was ignorant, not him... I respect the fact he has hands and feet above my experience.

From: trophyhill
04-Feb-18
Here's my solution. Take away a few rifle tags, and create a separate season/draw for xbows. Problem solved. I don't know why it should be complicated. Let's say 1st week of October, then shift muzzy and rifle dates accordingly. You're welcome ;)

From: mrelite
04-Feb-18
They would never give the rifle tags away, they would take them from the bow hunters without a doubt

From: trophyhill
05-Feb-18
I musta been dreaming.....

From: HDE
05-Feb-18
I bought a crossbow once, just to have it. Unless you can walk around (or sit in a ground blind/tree stand) with it ready to go, they would be a pain to hunt with.

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