I can check the results each morning to see if we keep receiving additional responses.
Feel free to argue (keep it gentlemanly) about the results here.
Disclosure: I chose "no opinion"
The survey results are in. The numbers are what they are, no discussion there. We are free to agree or disagree with the results.
I would like to complement you on your approach, the way the survey was done, and how this was presented to the forum. From one WI forum member to another, WELL DONE!
You keep reflecting back to say " Just imagine how the non hunting public views hunting."
Im here to tell you we have bigger fish to fry than a law that is basically split down the middle and will be all but forgotten about like the 10 year old hunt was/is.
Hunter "image" does more to damage our sport daily then this law could do in 25 years!
"Slob hunters", "trespassers wearing orange", "intoxicated hunters in public" ,"people that choose to carry their deer home on vehicles with cavities exposed and blood streaking down the side of the car", "poachers (even those are not "hunters" - some people believe they are), the "clowns that brandish firearms on public streets to see what kinda rise they can get out of the public". - And this list goes on and on.....ALL these hurt the "hunter image" and your worried about this law? Really?
We have so many REAL worries to our sport!
The smiles I seen on the kids faces all tell me it was worth it. At first I was vocal against it but willing to give it a chance and it succeeded in all aspects.
It will also be interesting to see what happens with the those involved with purchasing the licenses for those under the age of 1....
I can tell you I hold no bias. I did this purely for curiosity and generate conversation on support.
What bias do you see in the survey question? The answer options were simple - yes, no, no opinion. I thought that was about as straight forward and unbiased answers I could choose. I'm open to your suggestions.
The only suggestion I have for all bowhunters is to support the organizations that support our bowhunting heritage, and not sit on the sidelines.
"Slob hunters", "trespassers wearing orange", "intoxicated hunters in public" ,"people that choose to carry their deer home on vehicles with cavities exposed and blood streaking down the side of the car", "poachers (even those are not "hunters" - some people believe they are), the "clowns that brandish firearms on public streets to see what kinda rise they can get out of the public". - And this list goes on and on.....ALL these hurt the "hunter image" and your worried about this law? Really?"
Are these the same slob hunters who are those same parents who are best suited to decide when their child is ready to hunt?
Pat suggests that slob hunters make us look bad, points out examples from a law enforcement perspective, and doesn't recognize that these slobs are also parents, and you two suggest parents are best at making decisions? Fine, my mom says I'm ready to be a heart surgeon. Are you willing to go under the knife? I mean come on, it's just a scalpel? Honestly, I don't mind having discussions with people that are willing to reason. Unfortunately, too many people either avoid saying you got a point, or are so mind blocked, they refuse to listen, that these discussions that are mostly opinion and heartfelt go nowhere. It's like politics. You have a democrat and a republican in the room. The Democrat says "man, Trump is a narcissistic moron"! The republican instead of agreeing, replies with "oh yeah, well Hillary is a liar" truth is, both are right, but we just have to so damn right, and there's obviously many answers. Me included! I have 8 siblings, I can do this all day! LOL!
Just like you said before. We will agree to disagree. That we can agree on, but if your argument or my argument has no merit (considering our point of view), we must keep trying to sell our point of view, to someone not in the market. I think it's about the silliest damn thing (this rule), a few of you support it, therefore I can't help but think your silly too! No harm. I don't hate anyone for it. I just simply cannot believe people's stances on things.
Be good! Go mentor a kid. The idea itself is wonderful!
And no Pete, you may not operate on me even though you stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently and are therefore qualified :).
I am not for or against this because I can see the value when this is used properly. By properly I mean by parents who "get it" and would only allow their child to hunt when he/she is damn ready. Ready means having the ability to handle and shoot their weapon properly and understanding and accepting what taking a life means. The latter is a huge one that keeps many youths from hunting. It can be traumatic to some kids.
My biggest issue with the whole thing relates to the fact group bagging is still legal and youth doe tags can be used by group bagging in buck only areas. I don't agree with multiple firearms being allowed with the mentored hunt. I would be OK with non-firearms. I have no doubt that many parents will use this as an opportunity for them to take more deer.
And, for those who chose to talk before knowing, and direct from the rules:
Junior Antlerless Deer Tag (youth under age 18) Hunters ages 17 and younger will be issued a statewide Junior Antlerless Deer Tag with each license. This tag is valid for taking one antlerless deer in any DMU statewide on the land type specified on the tag. It may be used during any open deer season with the appropriate gun, archer or crossbow license and weapon authorized by that license. This tag may be filled ONLY by the tag holder and may not be filled by another hunter.
Assembly Bill 455 This bill eliminates the requirement that a person be at least ten years of age to hunt under the hunting mentorship program, leaving it up to parents to decide. The bill also eliminates the current limit of one (1) hunting device that a mentor and a mentee may have while hunting. They both may now carry hunting devices. Finally, the bill prohibits a person who is serving as a mentor in a group hunting party from killing a deer for the mentee or using a deer carcass tag issued to the mentee, in line with other statutes with youth hunting.
This is what I was referring to:
Question 2: If my son, who is a youth, and me are hunting together during the gun-deer season with gun-deer licenses and firearms, can I shoot an antlerless deer and tag it with my son’s antlerless tag?
Answer: Yes, although the spirit of the statewide junior antlerless tag is to promote extra hunting opportunities for our young hunters. Still, yes, you could fill your son’s unfilled antlerless deer carcass tag because it would be under legal group hunting.
Happy, in your defense, that was allowed when the law was first written. It was brought to the attention of the legislators and was rectified with this most recent legislation.
To each his own. No one knows your child and their abilities better than you do.
"Are these the same slob hunters who are those same parents who are best suited to decide when their child is ready to hunt?"
Yes, these are.
As well as murders, rapists, democratic protesters, cross dressers and everything in-between as parents here in Wisconsin. There also are Doctors, Lawyers, Firemen and blue color workers, hard working men and women, flag waving folks as well, making those decisions...
I hope no one is surprised here.
Much like everything else in life, nothing is perfect and that includes parents. Some are better than others and some should have never been allowed to give birth.
But I still believe, that parents who are interested enough in hunting and interested enough in their individual children(s) are more than able to make a safety call. Parents are making "safety" calls everyday when it comes to children.
I think we can look back to the 10 year hunt with much of the same "rhetoric" are seeing here today. These parents as well have to make that same decision.
Why would I expect these parents to make any worse decision on younger children? Mom and Dad have done a great job with our 10 year olds.
Thank the good Lord and Greyhound what people feared has NOT come true to date. But, far and wide the 10 year old hunt has been very successful.
What has come true.... is three (3) adults shot themselves this year while preparing to deer hunt, deer hunting or ending the hunt. Our respective 10 year olds, bless them, once again, went without accident or problem.
So Yes, some Mom's and Dad's are just trashy, terrible folks.
But I also believe that these "types" of Mom's and Dad's don't care about themselves, each other and even less of their children. They are the type(s) that care less about hunting and even less about their kids hunting.
Be nice to live in the perfect world...wouldn't it?
After the dust settles, this too will pass.
The only thing I oppose is the two weapons allowed in a mentored hunt situation. This hunt was never intended for the mentor to hunt he/she is there to guide and oversee the youth in their attempt to hunt.
How does huntersafety discourage slobs? There are 10’s of thousands of graduates but yet in WON Cuff and Collars there are many graduates getting them selves in trouble.
The participation rate is always highest in its first and second years when a change is made. It’s proved itself to be a safe hunt.
Actually Pete - they don't "make" anyone "take" the hunters safety course. You can still hunt in Wisconsin without it, under the mentor hunt. This is the same program that would effect those children under 10. But they don't "need" it as they will always be hunting with a mentor until the course is taken and passed - but it's HIGHLY encouraged that everyone attend.
Sop in essence - before that young person hunts alone - Hunter's Safety needs to be in place for everyone.
I see your point!
And I see your point as well.
Don't really see a reason for not making it a requirement for mentees if they plan on taking an animal.
If a kid has time to sit in the woods, they got time to take a safety course.
I'm sure you're providing Brian plenty of training and thousands of other experienced hunters are doing the same but I also know plenty of dad's that force their kids into the woods and show no muzzle control.
The DNR has made it so convenient kids can take the course online.
The WDNR is driving hard to the net to reduce the time of HS program, which I and all other instructors here are against.
Shane makes a good point - the mentor program is a great program and works well in situations like Shane's.
I and other Instructors shy away from the on-line course as in our opinion there is no substitute for on hands training and interaction. Some adults could do well with the on-line course however.
Also, try and find a HS course that fits your schedule or one that is available. Before I taught my daughter and I drove nearly 45 minutes one way to get a course. Not always that easy...just saying!
(edit: 8 course hours +2 field hours=10 hours, my eyes passed over BT 2 hours initially)
Got a busy schedule? DNR addresses that with the online course.
Does it work good for Crusader and many other? Absolutely!
I also believe he can successfully teach Brian and his two sons how to be great drivers....doesn't mean people shouldn't take a written test before getting a learner's permit.
Now, if these darn geese would shut up I might have a chance at hearing an approaching deer. There's gotta be at least 200 an they've been going bonkers since I got here at 5:20.
I personally believe this anticipation is what help retain young hunters.
Yes, I'm still teaching and so is my wife and now my son graduated from "Junior Instructor" to his adult Instructor status. It's a family affair!
My Father would not let me hunt until I was 15 years of age. I walked along with him rabbit and pheasant hunting. He'd let me handle the 28 gauge with a couple soda cans and then to pigeons in silo's. My first hunt was a rabbit hunt.! Dad loved to hunt rabbits.
I'm sure he's laughing at me as I now hunt rabbits with hawks!
There was no such thing as "HS" when I was young.
My first year, I was the holder of a "party tag" and shot a gigantic doe.
I was "King of the World" that day! Remember it like yesterday!
They will not be out cutting country with dad, and learning about the woods and creeks, and wondering where that beaver pond is, and once finding it, saying, boy next summer we are coming back here,,,,, They will not realize, what a trophy that 3 pointer was, and will never forget, the day they either miss or get, a nice 8, and say WOW,,,,,,,
I know today it is different times, but so many, are missing out on so much,,,,,,,
when I sat in a blind, out of natural materials, dad would say, "are you cold?", and we would build a fire, and toast our lunch up and laugh, and not worry so much if we spooked a deer,,,,,, we were there for the fun, and togetherness.....