DeerBuilder.com
2nd Rut
Kansas
Contributors to this thread:
Dmac 06-Dec-17
Thornton 06-Dec-17
sitO 06-Dec-17
Ben 06-Dec-17
Leebo1963 07-Dec-17
Dmac 07-Dec-17
Kicker Point 07-Dec-17
Thornton 07-Dec-17
Twinetickler 08-Dec-17
Westksbowhunter 08-Dec-17
Twinetickler 08-Dec-17
Westksbowhunter 08-Dec-17
Thornton 09-Dec-17
Matte 09-Dec-17
Westksbowhunter 09-Dec-17
Kicker Point 09-Dec-17
Thornton 09-Dec-17
leftee 09-Dec-17
HoytZinger 09-Dec-17
Westksbowhunter 09-Dec-17
HoytZinger 09-Dec-17
Kicker Point 09-Dec-17
Westksbowhunter 09-Dec-17
Trebarker 09-Dec-17
T-Bird 10-Dec-17
Kicker Point 10-Dec-17
HoytZinger 11-Dec-17
Dmac 11-Dec-17
liktobowhunt 11-Dec-17
Thornton 11-Dec-17
Ben 11-Dec-17
leftee 11-Dec-17
z hunter 11-Dec-17
catfisher 13-Dec-17
MichaelArnette 20-Dec-17
Thornton 20-Dec-17
Kansasclipper 20-Dec-17
Thornton 20-Dec-17
z hunter 20-Dec-17
Thornton 20-Dec-17
z hunter 20-Dec-17
z hunter 20-Dec-17
Thornton 21-Dec-17
Jayhawk1983 22-Dec-17
Kansasclipper 22-Dec-17
Thornton 22-Dec-17
Kansasclipper 22-Dec-17
From: Dmac
06-Dec-17

Dmac's embedded Photo
Dmac's embedded Photo
Just want everyone to break out cold weather gear and not give up hope . 2nd Rut is upon us and the light switch has been turned on. I’ve seen more big bucks in the last 2 evenings than all year . Be on stand by 3pm .

From: Thornton
06-Dec-17
I've seen bucks chasing or locked down with does every day of rifle season that I've hunted this year. The rut never stopped.

From: sitO
06-Dec-17
or...maybe it's cause they're hungry lol

From: Ben
06-Dec-17
I'm with Thornton, I have seen a lot of action and bucks on almost every sit. Just like a continuous rut.

From: Leebo1963
07-Dec-17
Has anyone had luck using a buck or doe decoy in the late season? I had a buddy ask about it and I haven't tried one in the late season.

From: Dmac
07-Dec-17
I had good luck in Illinois a few years back with my Boss Buck and bedded doe combination. Funny part was that I had misplaced one antler on decoy . But they didn’t seem to mind .

From: Kicker Point
07-Dec-17
The buck I shot this morning was trailing a foursome of does.

From: Thornton
07-Dec-17

Thornton's embedded Photo
Thornton's embedded Photo
This young 8 point and a pair of spikes were pushing does around this evening half heartedly. They would give up, feed, then spar with each other, then push does again.

From: Twinetickler
08-Dec-17
Headed out this coming Wednesday to hunt for a week. What does the secondary movement look like in north central KS? The orange army ready to put their guns away yet?

08-Dec-17
I think the camo army out numbers the orange army. I see more pressure by bow hunters and crossbow hunters than I do gun hunters.

From: Twinetickler
08-Dec-17
I wouldn't doubt that for a second, it's crazy how it's become the "cool" thing to do. I long for the old days when people would laugh at you when you told them you were a bowhunter.

08-Dec-17
That's because it has gotten easy. Trail cams, feeders, crossbows, etc. They come to feeders like pets.

From: Thornton
09-Dec-17
I can attest to that. I've seen very few gun hunters on private land in Butler and Greenwood Counties this season. I have hunted only a little public but found plenty of bowstands and bow hunting trash.

From: Matte
09-Dec-17
I am good friends with the Stroots and believe it or not it seems to be a typical deer season do far. The only exception is the bow season had a lot more deer than normal brought in.

09-Dec-17
More pheasant hunters than gun hunters. I wonder if gun hunters don't want the hassle of finding it hard getting permission to hunt or if they don't want to pay $20 an acre for 2 weekends a year. You watch, eventually hunter numbers will take a big drop in numbers due to leasing.

From: Kicker Point
09-Dec-17
I know I sound alarmist, but I'm convinced cross gun hunting during archery season will seriously diminish the deer herd quality in KS.

From: Thornton
09-Dec-17
Some of my public servant, weekend warrior friends have given up on deer. No place to hunt, and they can have more fun walking up birds or blasting ducks over a local pond.

From: leftee
09-Dec-17
Amen Kicker Point.Already happening in Illinois and elsewhere.

From: HoytZinger
09-Dec-17
Kicker, it already has. Look on these Kansas Facebook hunting pages. Every picture has two things in it.... a corn feeder and a crossbow. In conjunction with the one buck any season tag it is getting bad. Had a game warden tell us it is ruining the deer in this state, which I think we can all see pretty clearly.

09-Dec-17
So we are assuming that crossbows are replacing rifles so that hunters can get in on the rut. Probably the case. Then those crossbow hunters convert to rifle if they have not filled their tags. While I feel the crossbow inclusion is hurting, the real culprit is the any season tag which I was against when they first introduced it. Bad for mule deer, bad for everything.

From: HoytZinger
09-Dec-17
I agree West, if they got rid of that tag there would be a lot of crossbows for sale in Kansas:)

From: Kicker Point
09-Dec-17
I know 10 guys who have never hunted with a bow that now hunt archery season with a cross gun. I noticed the deer numbers and quality drop in the areas I have hunted over the last 15 years, but it SEEMS to be getting worse faster. Sure there are some guys who are able to manage larger pieces of land and can regulate the number of deer taken (no matter the weapon), but for the most part, it seems WAY more hunters are now afield for a longer period of time. Can't be good.

09-Dec-17
5 months out of the year. Exactly what the KDWPT advertizies, long seasons and liberal bag limits. An out of staters dream.

From: Trebarker
09-Dec-17
I would not bet against that Hoyt. I know many gun hunters who have bought xguns to hunt archery season, but would sell them in an instant if the any season tag went away.

From: T-Bird
10-Dec-17
You guys want some cheese to go with your whine

From: Kicker Point
10-Dec-17
T-Bird, did my 8th grade son hijack your account?

From: HoytZinger
11-Dec-17
Calm down T Bird, some of us actually care about the future of our deer herd. Have a glass a wine and go make sure your Crossgun is still on and all will be right in the world.

From: Dmac
11-Dec-17
Had a tough weekend down in Montgomery County , does and small bucks holed up in thicket , passed a 130 ten and the one we were after not coming out til dark . At least I know he survived the pumpkin patch season ! Good luck to all and be back after Christmas to try for him again

From: liktobowhunt
11-Dec-17
My huntin buddy broke his back from a tree stand fall four years ago cant climb a tree or pull a bow, im all for him using a crossbow. That said its way easier for him to tag out but thats ok he always tells me its time to change over and i tell him when i cant bow hunt ill quit thats my choice, but i dont think he should not hunt because of his injury

From: Thornton
11-Dec-17
Nobody said anything about not letting disabled hunters use them. Most of us do not want them used during regular season by well abled that could be using a bow. There was always a crossbow allowance for disabled hunters with a doctor's note before the idiots in charge changed the law.

From: Ben
11-Dec-17
The cross bow for the disabled is great. For those that are healthy and capable should use a bow in bow season. The crossbow should be in rifle season if the commercials are true that you can shoot a 3" group at 100 yards. This is the story of our society always looking for an easy way out with minimum effort. Very few anymore want to put out the effort to do any endeavor. Practice or woodman skills are becoming a thing of the past.

From: leftee
11-Dec-17
Amen!!!!

From: z hunter
11-Dec-17
I believe you said your wife is using a xgun this year Jason.

From: catfisher
13-Dec-17
I agree with some of your points about crossbows, but it is pretty lame to blame all our deer problems on them. If you disagree with their use for whatever reason, that is OK. Crossbows have their advantages and disadvantages, but I won't go into them here. I think our real deer problems start and end with the Kansas legislature and our Governor. Too many out of state tags, seasons too long, too many tags allowed in most units. Total lack of ability to react in an emergency, such as all the disease outbreaks a few years ago. I don't know how many of you have had the pleasure to attend a KDWP meeting, but I have and they are pretty much a joke, but in their defense their hands are somewhat tied by the incompetent folks running the legislature who are doing what the Gov wants. I have heard some KDWP respond to some pretty negative type comments at these meetings and I got the impression that the KDWP agent really wanted to agree with the person making the comment, but of course he could not do that. Deer herd management in a state like Kansas is a complex issue, but it is not rocket science, just plain old common sense and letting the biologist do their job.

20-Dec-17
I personally think the second rut is a hoax...sure there is still some breeding type movement but I don't think it's related to timing as much as the actual rut

From: Thornton
20-Dec-17
Did I not say "well abled hunters" Z? She has a Parker 40 lb that she and I both agree it would probably cripple a deer so she has elected to use her precision rifle and a crossbow. Women, children, geriatric and disabled hunters can use a cannon for all I care.

20-Dec-17
40 lbs out of any of the newer bows is more than adequate and probably more efficient than a 60 lb bow of 10 years ago. Lots of deer killed in the 50's, 60's, and 70's with 45 lb traditional bows. My daughters first buck was with a 38 lb bow, complete pass through. Accuracy is the key.

From: Thornton
20-Dec-17
A .22 LR is more than adequate to kill anything in KS but we don't use it either. Saying all bows set at 40 lbs are adequate may not be accurate. They all shoot differently even if set on the same poundage. My Bowtech seems to penetrate way better than my Mathews and both are set on 70 lb. Her arrows drop like a rock past 25 yards, even more so than my fast recurve of the same weight. Archery is not an exact science. I've hunted long enough and crippled some deer and seen plenty of others do the same. I think Ks should go back to minimum pull requirements of at least 45#

From: z hunter
20-Dec-17

z hunter's Link
Get her a 60 to 120y xgun, then she'll be "well abled"

From: Thornton
20-Dec-17
She is using my 150 lb Barnett Recruit. It's range isn't much better but I think it will penetrate better.

From: z hunter
20-Dec-17
130lbs

Point n shoot, great for people who wont practice with a bow.

From: z hunter
20-Dec-17

z hunter's embedded Photo
z hunter's embedded Photo
Gotta love the comments

From: Thornton
21-Dec-17
I'm curious if he is shooting the recurve or the compound? The recurve seems cheap to me. I've had this one for a little over a year and shot it in the yard dozens of times with no problems other than the cheap red dot won't keep zero.

From: Jayhawk1983
22-Dec-17

22-Dec-17
"A .22 LR is more than adequate to kill anything in KS but we don't use it either. Saying all bows set at 40 lbs are adequate may not be accurate. They all shoot differently even if set on the same poundage. My Bowtech seems to penetrate way better than my Mathews and both are set on 70 lb. Her arrows drop like a rock past 25 yards, even more so than my fast recurve of the same weight. Archery is not an exact science. I've hunted long enough and crippled some deer and seen plenty of others do the same. I think Ks should go back to minimum pull requirements of at least 45#"

Lets take the average bow speed of 335 for most modern day bows. Some are much faster than 335 as we know. With a 475 grain arrow, 28 inch draw, and 45 lbs draw, you would be shooting 228 fps. That same set up out of my Xi Legend XRG at 70 lbs shot 214 fps back in the late 80's. That is why it is absurd to put a draw weight restriction on bows today. If you understand penetration, then you know that draw length, arrow flight, and arrow weight have much more to do with efficiency than draw weight. Draw weight would be the least considered restriction.

From: Thornton
22-Dec-17
Yes but those old bows shot heavy aluminum arrows and I believe they penetrated better. Speed does not always kill. I have a few suppressed rifles that shoot subsonic -850-1100 fps with 150-220 gr bullets. They penetrate much farther than those high velocity varmint rounds. I shot a deer with one about 6 years ago and it zipped right through him. I can also shoot stuff over a foot deep in the water with them- something the .223 won't do. I can guess that arrows perform similar since they are a flying projectile.

22-Dec-17
Did you miss the part where I said the same "Identical Arrow". Those numbers are with the same JDA Natural I shot in the late 80's early 90's. You are right, speed does not kill which is what I noted above. Accuracy and a finely tuned arrow and bow is what gets the job done, not "Poundage". Thanks for proving my point and agreeing.

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