Private Land Ethics
Connecticut
I went to say hi to my landowner and he informed me that he’s letting another guy hunt it with a crossbow. It’s a small 2 acre property and the deer get spooked easily. Ok so most of you are thinking cry me a river. I know I’m at the mercy of the landowner but I think it’s a sh** move by the other hunter. Find another property. Personally I wouldn’t do that. I guess it’s every man for himself. Anybody else feel my pain? Or maybe you're on the other end of it.
I agree and have been on the sh** end of that stick in the past. You can either suck it up and continue to hunt there or move on and chalk it up to another unethical ass in the woods. Land owners never understand so they think it’s ok to have more hunters but it actually works against what they usually want to accomplish
Unfortunately youre not in a position to have a say really.
Maybe the new hunter is a good friend or business partner, who knows.
Maybe the other guy is thinking who is this other bozo, doesnt he know im his best friend for 55 years?
Always two sides of the coin.
But yea, i agree that its kind of a weak move to move in on a property that small. I have permission on a couple spots that i just dont hunt because I know there are a few other guys there more often (reported to me by landowner).
I have little tiny pieces that the land owners cousin suddlely wants to bow hunt, or the fat neighbor sets up on the line..you can always talk to him to figure something out but that rarely works or option 2....https://youtu.be/ifilTM9LFHw
I have had it happened to me I just moved on ,but most of my land owners won't let there brother hunt over me I guess they really trust us . Steve
I had that happen on a 60 acre parcel I had for bow and gun for three of four years. The landowner said I had to share it with a new group if I wanted to keep hunting it. I just backed off and gave the place up. The other guys were nice enough, but just not worth the hassle in my opinion.
On a small parcel like that, I wouldn't even bother worrying about it. Just go somewhere else.
Have you meet him yet?? Seems like you have made up your mind about the guy already. He may be great guy that has other opportunities he might even share with you just sayin
Happen to me last year and i worried for nothing, either he never showed up or we just never bumped into each other. I still hunted and could have shot deer.
Maybe the other guy can only hunt it Tuesday and Wednesday and you can have it the rest of the time. Even with that, on a small parcel it's too much pressure, the deer will move out or only at night.
Generally if I know someone else is hunting a property I won’t ask, perhaps the guy didn’t know
Generally if I know someone else is hunting a property I won’t ask, perhaps the guy didn’t know
He’s an older guy (not a family friend) new to crossbow hunting. I’ll try to be optimistic. I hope he doesn’t ruin it. I already gave up two properties for this exact reason. This is a good property and I don’t want to give it up. I’ll keep you posted.
Notme, I like your approach but it seems a little extreme. I might mention to him that all the deer on the property have genital herpes. It’s worth a shot.
I wouldn't want to be any where near a newbie hunter with a crossbow on a small parcel. Recipe to get pegged in my opinion. Good luck.
I would def ask for his contact info and maybe you can work out some arrangements where it works for both of you. I know it sucks but don’t assume worse case right off the bat.
I would just walk away. Might be a blessing and you find a new piece that’s better. Have to look at the flip side.
"I already gave up two properties for this exact reason"
Seems to me you already know kiw the answer to your question.
Once I had a 12 acre property and the landowner let someone else hunt it. This hunter would park his white van in the middle of a field where deer would bed. It was unbelievable. Then he started hunting rifle and I decided to bail. Another time I had a nice property to hunt and I was after a bruiser. Landowner decides to let someone else hunt there. The hunter has a mangled hand with fingers he just broke. He decides to hunt anyways. Takes a long shot at the bruiser and ends up hitting it in the ass. Decided to stop hunting that property too. So based on past experiences I don’t have high hopes.
Smooth, that sucks. I don't like hunting any where near guys on state land for the same reasons. They have too much impact on normal deer activity.
I hunt with my Daughter during rifle season. So I tell the landowner I don't feel comfortable/safe with another Hunter in the woods with my 23 year old daughter. All three times the new guy was told he can't hunt there anymore. Play the safety card and see what happens.
Why assume the worst? Maybe you can talk to the guy, get to know him, perhaps help out a newbie get into the thing that we are all so passionate about. Maybe you can assist him in getting his first deer, help him track it, help him field dress and drag it. If you have ever been in on a first-time kill, you will already know how special that is (for both of you).
Maybe eventually you can help influence him towards hunting with a compound. Perhaps he'll eventually become as into it as most of us here are, and maybe he'll share some of his other properties with you. Maybe he's a great guy and will become a friend of yours, maybe he hunts with a firearm and is in a great club that he will invite you to be his guest at. Hell, maybe he'll even help recruit some new bow hunters or even become a Bowhunting Education Instructor and teach hundreds of new bowhunters, and help stem the tide of decreasing hunting license sales. And it will have all started with a conversation.
Ace I’m not that nice of a guy!! And I don’t have enough time to worry about what somebody else will be doing on a property I hunt. I would prefer to hunt unmolested relaxed deer. Call me a snob if you wish
I have basically given up on private land. There are deer on public land and you don't have to deal with issues like this.
I have bumped into very few other hunters on public land, but I used to run into trespassers/dirt bikers/horse back riders etc. all the time on private.
I don't want to be stressing over this kind of stuff while hunting. I just want to hunt.
I've hunted a lot of public lands and a lot of property owned by other people; either way, you have issues to deal with. The best thing to do is buy your own land, that way you get to set the rules. You'll still have things to deal with: Taxes, Trespassers, Friends begging for invitations, Neighbors, Maintenance etc, but you have much more control.
For stress levels owning hunting land may be the worst.
It can be great too, though.
He’s already got two strikes against him. Don’t ask to hunt on a 2 acre property that already is being hunted. I’m more in tuned with Longbeard’s train of thought. I’m not good at sharing. Ace, the next house I buy will be in the middle of a thicket, with some swamp, and fields. Yeah...as you can tell I’m pissed.
Sounds like a win win for the other guy!
I’m hoping for at least a tie.
Sounds familiar dude...lol
https://youtu.be/YMn8XYt2RCQ
Shrek is living the dream.
I can never understand why people think if they have permission to hunt someone else's land that it is their property to hunt for life.....I have been on both sides of the coin....if it is a newbie in most cases they won't get anything and loose interests
Sucks when you have to share but it is what it is....
the best case is to work together and respect each other...
hunting spots come and go...private and state...they are not good forever anyways
no offense but IO would not lose sleep over a 2 acre piece.....500 acre farm would hurt
Jax it’s all relevant. If you live down here in Ffld cnty a 2 acre spot might just be equivalent to 500 acres somewhere else
You should meet the guy first - you may very easily work things out and potentially have someone to help you out- There is the possibility that he is a good guy
longbeard I live in Norwalk...and 2 acres is not a 500 acre farm
Jax, your perspective makes sense. Everything always changes... sometimes for the best and other times for the worst. I actually enjoy spending time with landowner who is almost 90. So maybe it’s not even so much about the hunting anyways. Thanks for talking me off the ledge. The property is definitely a honey hole... like shooting fish in a barrel. If it doesn’t work out I might actually have to start “hunting” again which I kind of miss.
Just to play Devil's Advocate....
Ethics comes down to "what's good for one is good for all". IOW, how would you like to be on the other side of that fence?
If you think it's Unethical for someone to seek permission to hunt a property where you already have access, let me just ask you this: If you got a lead on a place that had plenty of deer on it, but there was someone else already hunting that spot, would YOU feel honor-bound to let that go?
It DEPENDS, doesn't it?
What if you'd been asking around for 2 years and this was the first decent lead you'd come across? How about 5 years? 10? 20? What's the magic number??
What if you asked the landowner how often the other guy hunted the place, and it was just a couple of days per year? Couple days per month? Per week? Once a year? Only in years when there was a "booker" on the property?
What if you asked the landowner if The Other Guy had gained access to the property by talking about how important it is to manage the deer herd to a sustainable level, and turns out that he HAD... but he wasn't taking any does? Or 1/year? 2? 14?
What's the magic number?
I got reamed out pretty good here one time, many years ago, for stating that, as a guy who had access to good private land (back then), I thought it would be Unethical of me to hunt State land when there is so little of it to go 'round. A few guys who had plenty of access to Private land but apparently were also onto some good Public land bucks didn't much care for that POV.
I've been "added" as a hunter on 2 properties over the years; on the first one, the landowner carved up the map and assigned each of us to a different part of the property. I stayed late one night when the other guy and I were both there and talked to him; he was clearly not too happy about it, but he still had sole access to about 50% more acreage than I did. Don't know about him, but I stayed on my side of the invisible line.
On another property, the other guy and I had a quick phone call and agreed to coordinate... which was really easy, since he hunted only in the rifle season and could hunt weekdays. Also helped that neither one of us was fussy about antlers. 40 acres for 2 guys. NBD.
Smoothdraw....If the guy is a newbie...take him under your wing....get hima deer...I am sure he will be excited about that, work with you about who hunts when and then you have someone to help you drag your deer
GF, good question. For me, if I was offered a 2 acre parcel loaded with deer and another guy/gal was already there, I would say "thanks so much, but I have other places to hunt." This actually happened to me a few times over the years and that was my answer. I refused for a couple of reasons. 1- I don't like backyard hunting. 3- I don't like being near anyone else. Getting a deer is not my priority,.....and my record proves that.
Honestly I don’t mind sharing the property if he’s a good dude. But if he goes rogue and the property turns to sh** I’ll probably grease up the rungs to his stand. Lol. GF, you’re right about all the variables in play. In my early days of hunting I probably would have been more likely to mooch on some other hunter’s property. But now I think more like Bob. That’s a scary thought. Lol. I’ll let you all know how it turns out.
“Mooch on some other hunter’s property”....
Now, see? Right there’s your problem. If he don’t own it, it ain’t “his”.
I wouldn’t probably try to “share” access to a couple acres unless the landowner was really motivated to reduce the local herd and the other guy just wasn’t having any impact. Then I’d be in and out. Fill a tag with the first doe or two that walks by and call it good. ‘Cuz you just can’t HUNT 2 acres.
I love hunting, and that’s not what it looks like. But I love eating venison, too, and am prepared to be pretty mercenary about it if the opportunity should arise. Heh, heh, heh...
I have been on both sides. Early in my hunging career a landowner invited me to hunt his land. He already had a friend that hunted there. I was too green to fully appreciate the impact my being there may have had on the other guy. I knew enough to stay away from his stand...but he had no concerns about using mine. We have both hunted it for 10 + years now. We will text each other now and then but generally stay out of each others way. It is a relatively large property but now that I have more experience I may have handled the situation a bit differently in hind sight. It is not my primary location but I send the owner a gift each year and help him with field work a few days each year.
More recently, a friend that I was just getting to know bought some new land and she said I could hunt there. Before the season started someone else contacted her husband and told him that he and his son hunted the property before it was sold. The new owner gave them permission as well. In this case I suppose both of us had a right to feel bad about “the other guy” but as others have said, we dont own the land or the deer on it. We are guests of the owners and cant assume we will always have permission forever.
“Mooch on some other hunter’s property”.... Now, see? Right there’s your problem. If he don’t own it, it ain’t “his”.
Yes I get it. This is indeed a take what you can get society.
https://youtu.be/HNl0sBz1ol4
That’s not my point; point is, the Landowner - and ONLY the Landowner - has any right to think of the property as “his”. For everybody else, it’s a privilege; we’re guests.
So it’s the difference between treating the place as well as you would care for your own, as opposed to acting like you own the place.
GF, I certainly agree with that point. I started this thread mostly to vent. Norm from Cheers said it best. "It's a dog eat dog world, Woody and I'm wearing Milk Bone underwear “.
I hear you, man! Some days, you’re the windshield.... but most days I feel like a bug.
We’ve had a helluva ride in the past 14 years or so, but we’ve met a lot of good people along the way and a lot of them have held out a friendly hand to make things easier, so we make sure to give back what we can, and usually we end up feeling lucky being able to do it.
And just to be clear - I wouldn’t fault anyone for having a “Now, wait just a damn minute” moment if he’d been maintaining feeders on property - especially a small one - and the landowner added the other guy mid-season or something. I have no desire to hunt anywhere near a feeder but I’ve caught a glimpse of how much time goes into that - seems like every time I see our friend mlongbeard, he’s running “off to feed the chickens”, and I just don’t know how the hell he keeps up with it. Can’t be cheap, either, so from his perspective... Yep, THAT would really SUCK. And in that case if I were the guy being added, I’d thank the landowner profusely and explain that there would be no way for the first guy and me to “share” access to the place without my getting into the other guy’s hair. On 10 acres it might be feasible, depending on the topography; on 20, probably NP if there was only one feeder.
But if there’s no feeders involved, it would be so much easier to work it out.
Ok it’s a week before the season. This guy still has not called me even though the landowner has told him to call me. He won’t give the landowner his phone number. The landowner is an older nice guy who isn’t really going to step in. I also found out he set up cameras and stands all over the property and invited his friend to hunt it too. Now can I be pissed?
See this is the point. I got permission and I’m hunting there, I don’t care who’s toes I step on. That’s the attitude of many guys and apparently some on here. Yes it has happened to me both ways and yes I relinquish the property either way. It’s not worth the hassle either way. In this case smoothie has given the guy plenty of time and opportunity to meet and make plans to cooperate. But true to form of most guys today he has gotten nothing but the middle finger. Smooth sorry for the situation your in but a confrontation is eminent. When it happens take the high road but make sure he understands how you feel. This is about ethics and nothing else!!
Ok so I finally got a phone call. He’s a nice guy. I don’t mind sharing the property with him. Case closed. Maybe some good karma will come my way.
Glad to hear everything worked out. Good Luck this season.
i don't even bother with private land anymore because of this sense of entitlement hunters have with someone else's property...Unless it is a friend or someone I know...
there are more rules for getting a piece of private land than the law book
I can’t believe that anyone would allow someone to hunt their place and not have the hunter’s phone number! That’s NUTS!
Glad it’s working out OK. Plenty o’ deer to go around in CT - it’s the huntable property that’s hard to find!
In CT, I only hunt Public down there, public and all the private land I hunt up here is non written permission required (Just ask and receive or be denied, or unposted private which is legal up here outside of towns with written permission bylaws, none of which I hunt)...
Point being, I've not had to deal with this precise issue.
That said, I think I'd ask the land owner if I could talk to the guy so we were not all over each other. I mean, 2 acres is not a lot of space... Hopefully the landowner agrees. Then reach out, tell him what you know. Spill the beans on the place, share info - best case, he gets all happy, decides you're cool and opts to work with you, maybe only hunting a day or two a week each, or give him October and you take November :)
Worst case, you decide "I want no part of that" and move on - which you are doing now any way.
It's a bummer to acclimate to regardless.
I find that being unselfish in attitude always pays off big - Being resentful pays nothing- Any new guy on the property is going to get my hand shake and help any time- There will be no excuse to be negative toward me.
I’m glad it all worked out for you Smooth. Some of you guys crack me up because it’s obvious this situation has never happened to you. It has happened 3 times to me where I was the one with the existing permission. Once on a 2 acre plot, on a 10 acre plot and on a 170 acre plot. In all three situations I ended up either losing permission or I walked away because I don’t like to share my spots. I prefer to hunt undisturbed deer, especially on small plots. As I stated earlier, I don’t have time to worry about what/how the other guy is hunting. On the flip side of that, I have knocked on doors to obtain permission or have been offered permission and as soon as I have found out that someone is already hunting there I’ve walked away. I walked away from a primo spot just last year for this very reason. I spoke to the other hunter and he assured me I could hunt there every other day, after he hunted the other days. Lol. Funny thing is I never saw another vehicle there all season. But ethically I will not step on another hunters toes. I’ve been on the other side of that equation to many times and it smarts
