Mathews Inc.
Ban on baiting
West Virginia
Contributors to this thread:
Babysaph 27-Jun-18
Jim Casto Jr 27-Jun-18
gobbler 27-Jun-18
Babysaph 27-Jun-18
Jim Casto Jr 27-Jun-18
gobbler 28-Jun-18
Babysaph 28-Jun-18
Babysaph 28-Jun-18
wasko9 28-Jun-18
Jim Casto Jr 28-Jun-18
Babysaph 29-Jun-18
beebo 02-Jul-18
Jim Casto Jr 02-Jul-18
Babysaph 02-Jul-18
Babysaph 03-Jul-18
M.P. 03-Jul-18
Babysaph 03-Jul-18
JayD 05-Jul-18
Babysaph 05-Jul-18
JayD 06-Jul-18
Babysaph 06-Jul-18
hoppies56 06-Jul-18
Babysaph 06-Jul-18
gobbler 06-Jul-18
JayD 06-Jul-18
gobbler 06-Jul-18
babysaph 07-Jul-18
gobbler 07-Jul-18
Babysaph 08-Jul-18
JayD 10-Jul-18
Babysaph 10-Jul-18
JayD 10-Jul-18
Babysaph 10-Jul-18
JayD 11-Jul-18
RunNGun 20-Oct-18
RunNGun 20-Oct-18
Babysaph 20-Oct-18
RunNGun 20-Oct-18
RunNGun 20-Oct-18
JayD 21-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 21-Oct-18
Babysaph 21-Oct-18
Lone Eagle 21-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 21-Oct-18
Babysaph 21-Oct-18
JayD 22-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 22-Oct-18
JayD 22-Oct-18
Babysaph 22-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 23-Oct-18
Babysaph 23-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 23-Oct-18
Babysaph 23-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 23-Oct-18
Babysaph 23-Oct-18
Jim Casto Jr 23-Oct-18
WV Mountaineer 23-Oct-18
Babysaph 23-Oct-18
mountain william 24-Oct-18
Babysaph 24-Oct-18
From: Babysaph
27-Jun-18
Didn't want to hijack another thread. What do you guys think about the baiting issue? Do you think it should be banned statewide or just in the counties where CWD have been found? Do You think it will have any economic effects by banning baiting? I don't know the answer to that because I see deer corn for sale even in the counties where baiting is not allowed. I do know that it will be hard to ban baiting if it will have an effect on the farmers or the economy. What are your thoughts? BTW way. I think it should be banned. If it is stopping the spread of CWD in one county it will stop the spread of it into other counties.

From: Jim Casto Jr
27-Jun-18
Doesn't matter to me either way. I do keep a broadcast feeder behind the house and enjoy watching the deer, squirrels and turkey's. I'd probably miss that if it was banned.

Other than it certainly sounds plausible, maybe even reasonable, is there any convincing evidence that the banning of baiting has reduced the spread of CWD?

From: gobbler
27-Jun-18
That’s a good question ! I’ll get an answer, might take a couple days

From: Babysaph
27-Jun-18
I'd like to know too but I'd say it has or why else would they do it. I have a little old lady patient that feeds the birds and she brings me in pics of the deer because she knows I like to hunt. I told her that feeding them was illegal. She just poo pooed me like I was crazy. I didn't have the nerve to turn her in. Lol

From: Jim Casto Jr
27-Jun-18
“...but I'd say it has or why else would they do it…."

I don’t think so, Dr. J.R. I’ve read just about everything I can find on CWD and it’s full of all those buzz terms: seems to indicate, believed to, generally accepted, thought to, etc., etc. I have yet to read any confirmation of ANYTHING regarding the spreading or containment of this darn stuff. Hopefully, Dr. Burnette will find something more substantial than I’ve seen.

From: gobbler
28-Jun-18
From my source who is a nationally recognized Deer biologist that I trust.

There are studies that show bait piles contain prions that cause CWD from CWD positive Deer that have shed prions and those prions can infect other deer. But there are NO STUDIES showing banning baiting slows the spread of CWD. But the fact that prions can and do accumulate at bait sites and other deer can pick up the prions is what is behind the generally recognized practice of banning baiting in known CWD areas.

So theoretically it should help slow the spread but no study has proved it yet, and part of the reason is that it’s one of those studies that is so difficult to do because you are dealing with a wild animal and can’t control all variables.

From: Babysaph
28-Jun-18
I agree Jimmy . That was tongue in cheek. It wouldn't matter what the science says. It does matter what the farmers say however. It insults my intelligence that they ban baiting. (I wish they would btw) but allow people to feed the squirrels and birds. I'll send you some pics of my moms bird feeder that she sent me just last night. 9 deer were fighting to stand on their back legs to eat out of the feeder.

From: Babysaph
28-Jun-18
I agree Jimmy . That was tongue in cheek. It wouldn't matter what the science says. It does matter what the farmers say however. It insults my intelligence that they ban baiting. (I wish they would btw) but allow people to feed the squirrels and birds. I'll send you some pics of my moms bird feeder that she sent me just last night. 9 deer were fighting to stand on their back legs to eat out of the feeder.

From: wasko9
28-Jun-18
I know it may not be viewed by everyone as baiting but couldn't the argument be made that mineral sites are considered baiting/feeding. Although the intended purpose is not necessarily to hunt over them but provide the heard with essential nutrients especially this time of year with all the newborns. I know certain states like Wisconsin, the bird feeder must at a sufficient height or design to prevent access by deer. The lady who has the bird feeder could still spread CWD not knowingly which could be an issue if there is "no baiting."

From: Jim Casto Jr
28-Jun-18

Jim Casto Jr's embedded Photo
Jim Casto Jr's embedded Photo
Yep, you need to put those feeders high.

:^)

From: Babysaph
29-Jun-18
Good point Jimmy. The good ole boys where I hunt still put stuff out to feed the "birds and squirrels" so the can get trail cam pics.

From: beebo
02-Jul-18
I'm not a fan of baiting, and I find it strange that people bait and then call themselves hunters. You aren't a hunter, you're a semi-wild farmer.

From: Jim Casto Jr
02-Jul-18
Naw, you'd be a semi-wild farmer if you planted food plots. :^) Since your paintbrush is so broad, you'll obviously never "hunt" black bear in the Canadian bush or pronghorns over waterholes in Wyoming, huh? Too bad.

I've done both and I enjoyed every minute of it.

From: Babysaph
02-Jul-18
Me too Jimmy and most of the animals I hunted in Africa were at waterholes.

From: Babysaph
03-Jul-18
My poor old mother baits birds in to her feeder. I just don't have the heart to turn her in.

From: M.P.
03-Jul-18
Some that monitor this site will . lol

From: Babysaph
03-Jul-18
No law against feeding the birds or squirrels. In fact, that is what the guys in the mountain do. Feed the squirrels bird feed and get deer and bear pics.

From: JayD
05-Jul-18
Well hopefully there will be a cure or something for this soon. There is no way to stop those who continue to bait even if it is illegal - only so many wardens to take care of large areas. Its going to be hard to stop those feeding birds and squirrels and what about those who put blocks out for cattle or horses or whatever livestock they might have.

I have planted many crab apple, chestnut and persimmon trees, let alone the food plots - plus I have already started to put out mock scraps and licking branches - will these be next to be banned?

Lets hope research comes up with something!

From: Babysaph
05-Jul-18
They are already banned. lol. Can't bait. So that begs the question what is bait? Is it just Walmart deer corn?

From: JayD
06-Jul-18
JR - the only thing banned is putting bait out for deer - I don’t think bird feeders are and I am pretty sure that farmers can still put out blocks for the livestock. Pretty sure food plots and fruit trees are not banned as well.

From: Babysaph
06-Jul-18
So I can put out bait just not for deer? LOL. As long as it for squirrels and birds and livestock then I am ok. If deer eat it oh well. I have to tell you that my intelligence is insulted by that stupid law. They don't want deer congregating around anything because it spreads the disease yet they don't think they will congregate around food that is not intended for deer? Unbelievable. I think I was right the first time. They don't want us using deer corn. Being and attorney as well as a dentist I think I could win that battle in court. LOL.

From: hoppies56
06-Jul-18
Big difference in throwing out a little feed for bird and squirrels around your house , than dumping bags of corn or minerals or running a 250 lb feeder . Most DNR officers as well as anyone else knows the difference between the two.

From: Babysaph
06-Jul-18
But I can chum deer in with a bird feeder. I know people that have deer and even bears eating off of their bird feeders. I know the difference too but putting out feed blocks for livestock will attract deer too. I’m not just talking about hunting over it. I’m talking about what will attract animals in a group that will spread the disease. This is what we are trying to do. It is easy for an officer to catch someone hunting over any bait but we are trying to stop the spread of the disease. I’ll get a picture of my moms bird feeder and you tell me if it is possible for deer to spread the disease from congregating over the feeder. And until they ban all places where they can congregate the disease will continue to spread .

From: gobbler
06-Jul-18
You’re both right. The baiting ban is just a tool to try and help prevent the spread, it’s not 100% effective. People are still going to feed birds, farmers are still going to put salt and mineral blocks out for livestock, and some people are going to bait illegally. That’s why having CWD in an area is a HUGE problem and unfortunately a lot of people don’t understand that.

From: JayD
06-Jul-18
Gobbler that is why I hope there is a cure or fix to the problem soon. Must admit I really don’t know if I should have the fruit trees or food plots now - heck I started some licking branches a few weeks ago before I had heard about the two here in Berkeley county. Let’s face it - all those things concentrate deer into using a smaller area.

From: gobbler
06-Jul-18
Well there’s only so much that can be done. A good white oak acorn tree will concentrate Deer, a wild crabapple or persimmon will do the same. At least good plots spread the deer out some more than a pile of corn or a mineral lick. But there are natural mineral licks Deer will use. I think it will be a while before a vaccine or cure will be found. There isn’t even a live test yet. Although, I’ve read that research into CWD is expanding faster now .

From: babysaph
07-Jul-18
I do think we could be proactive and ban baiting in all counties

From: gobbler
07-Jul-18
It would probably be the best thing along with closing down Deer farms but the farm bureau has a strong lobby

From: Babysaph
08-Jul-18
I agree. What they say goes.

From: JayD
10-Jul-18
It is going to be hard to ban baiting and some will just do it illegally anyhow so maybe put in some rules in place like the amount one is able to place and that it must be dispersed over a certain amount of area and not placed in a pile. That way it would sort of be more like a fruit tree or small foodplot. Then you have to have the area marked with your name and make the fine pretty stiff if rules are not followed. Then maybe promote something like Antler Grow where the minerals would be sprayed on to a larger area or whole plant and not a block or something poured into one spot. Just a thought because it seems like some in power don’t seem to think it would be a good idea to ban baiting or you would have thought it would have by now.

From: Babysaph
10-Jul-18
The reason it has not been done is because some farmers depend on the income that corn for deer hunters provides. I know a farmer in Hardy county that makes over 100k from selling 100 lb bags of deer corn at $10 a bag. Let me tell you that is a lot of corn hitting the ground. So it will never be banned totally IMO. You are right. you will never stop hunters from doing it. Kinda like trying to stop the good ole boys in Pendleton county from trespassing and shooting bucks in velvet out of season. They will do it and that is already against the law. Can't stop an outlaw. I complain about the baiting but in reality I do pretty much the same thing. I plant food plots for the deer. So I guess I am just as guilty. I would not have to plant the food plots but I do it for the deer. I would not have to do it to hunt deer but I do.

From: JayD
10-Jul-18
JR you hit the nail on the head - it is hard to stop baiting when places such as Walmart, Dicks, Tractor Supply and other mom and pop stores sell corn - so put some regulations on how to use and heck while their add it put a dollar surplus on each bag for research into CWD. How are you going to put a ban on in certain counties and still allow stores in those counties to still sell stuff to bait deer? Doesn’t make any sense to me as well.

From: Babysaph
10-Jul-18
Yea but you can't stop that. They will just say they are feeding the birdies. We should contact the farm bureau and see if they would mind paying a tax on the deer corn to pay for CWD. That would go over like a turd in the punch bow. LOL.

From: JayD
11-Jul-18
Complaining about it will never happen doesn’t help anything - if we can tax cigarettes ought to be able to do something as well for this - just need to get the support behind it.

From: RunNGun
20-Oct-18

From: RunNGun
20-Oct-18
My thoughts on CWD....so you think mother nature should quit dropping acorns for the deer to feed on....in fear of CWD...or that she should stop dropping apples..all which cogregate deer in one area for a period of time? Come on this is BS science they are reaching and making hypothesis but don't have actual facts yet to back it up!

From: Babysaph
20-Oct-18
I had 4 deer outside by cabin door this weekend eating the feed out of my bird feeder.

From: RunNGun
20-Oct-18
Holy hell....call the DNR....don't wanna spread CWD... lmao

From: RunNGun
20-Oct-18

From: JayD
21-Oct-18
Go to the most recent CWD thread here and click on the link I supplied. It is a a very informative meeting with several of the top deer biologist in the country - I think you will be very interested in what they have to say regarding this. The test on cats that ate cwd in deer meat and then the one where they had it inject into to their brain. Also listen to the amount of urine that would need to be supplied to infest. It was an eye opener for me. One of the biologist is Dr James Kroll.

From: Jim Casto Jr
21-Oct-18

From: Babysaph
21-Oct-18
You guys actualy watched an hour long seminar on CWD? I'd rather sit through a Tupperware party. Lol

From: Lone Eagle
21-Oct-18
I was thinking the same thing JR.

From: Jim Casto Jr
21-Oct-18
I hadn't listened to it-just posted the link. But.... I've never been to a Tupperware party... so... I figured I give it a go.

Anyway... very interesting, I thought. There's "apparently" a lot of misinformation being used to create narratives and make regulation policies across the country.

From: Babysaph
21-Oct-18
I've never been to one either Jimmy. Lol. But I can imagine.

From: JayD
22-Oct-18
Thank you Jim for posting a better link to it! I actually did listen to it and it is not as bad as you think! LOL - never sat thru a Tupperware party but I have a Pampered Chef and 31 party and it was not as bad as those! LOL Must admit I was a little too worried about CWD after it was found in two deer here in Berkeley County. I was starting to think man should I be planting these persimmon, crabapple and sawtooth oak trees. Put the money into these food plots but I was a little more at ease after listening to this seminar. Not saying we shouldn’t still be concerned about it but sounds like maybe there has been a little bit of a chicken little atmosphere going on with it as well.

From: Jim Casto Jr
22-Oct-18
JayD,

Like I said, I found it interesting and I think a lot of their conclusions are irrefutable, however, I did get the sense that at least two of those fella’s were inclined to have a positive attitude toward captive cervid breeders/ranches/farmers.

Of course I could be wrong.

From: JayD
22-Oct-18
Sorry Jim - I meant for saying it was interesting to JR LOL that it wasn’t quite as bad as his Tupperware parties he has attended! LOL just meant to say thank you to you for supplying a better link to it. I believe you are correct about the positive attitude comment as well.

From: Babysaph
22-Oct-18
So here is my question. Do they know how it is spread.,if it is one county why wouldn't it be in others? If baiting causes it why don't we just ban baiting?

From: Jim Casto Jr
23-Oct-18
Dr. J.R.,

Take time to got to the Tupperware party and a lot of your questions will be answered.

:^)

Proof of anything with CWD seems difficult; notions run rampant.

From: Babysaph
23-Oct-18
Well my point is that they are banning baiting in some counties because they must thing that spreads it. If it does why don't they just ban it statewide? Inquiring minds want to know.

From: Jim Casto Jr
23-Oct-18
Because they "think" it spreads it, but can't proove it--at this time (It's called NOTIONS!). I would encourage you to listen to the seminar in the video--eye opening in a lot of respects.

From: Babysaph
23-Oct-18
I will listen to it. But they ought to take a notion to ban baiting. LOL

From: Jim Casto Jr
23-Oct-18
Why? Because someone has a "notion" it ought to be banned, or because the science says it "must" be banned? Until that question gets answered everything else will just contintue to be moot.

:^)

From: Babysaph
23-Oct-18
Just ban baiting. It can't hurt. If it has anything to do with CWD that would help

From: Jim Casto Jr
23-Oct-18
If, if, if...

23-Oct-18
I'd say it is every where and, has been for a long time.

From: Babysaph
23-Oct-18
Well it is.

24-Oct-18
Baiting is an unnecessary evil. The poor deer have fended for themselves and survived for eons without help from man and I see that the most times man tries to help he screws it up. Mother nature knows what she is doing.

From: Babysaph
24-Oct-18
I agree. But Don't the farmers need the Revenue? I notice places selling corn in Hardy county where baiting is not allowed.

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