Kansas Spring Archery Season Threat
Kansas
Hey guys....wanted to give everyone a heads up that the KDWPT commission discussed eliminating the Archery only portion of the Spring turkey season at the June meeting. There will be more discussion at the next meeting that will be held on August 2, 2018 at Medicine Lodge - Gyp Hills Guest Ranch, 3393 SW Woodward Rd, Medicine Lodge 1:30 pm. And then will be voted on at the October 25th meeting in Colby.
Please watch the video starting around 41 minutes from the June Commission meeting of KDWPT Small Game biologist Kent Fricke's presentation on the current season structure and the discussion that follows with the commissioners. They don't see a need for an archery only segment of the season. It is critical that you contact the commissioners if you disagree with this!
Thanks, Matt
I agree with it and will be contacting them to let them know I support the elimination.
Ks gobbler. I find it troubling that someone would be on a bowhunting site and leave a comment like yours about an issue like this. I'm pretty sure the original post was intended to rally bowhunters to help fight for the sport that we all love. I hope that your comment wasn't intended just to stir up trouble.
Here is the politics in this. If the commission has little resistance in eliminating an Archery for Spring Turkey then they will move towards expanding this same trend with deer. Alot if thought was put into this move while shadowing the true intentions. Just imagine if they tried this for fall deer season first. There would be a huge outcry. Little by little they will chip away at archery seasons unless we stand together with a very loud voice.
You are exactly right Matte. Could be the beginning of the end if we don't fight it.
My work phone won’t let me view the link. What is their reasoning?
How do you know that, Matte? I'm willing to put up a fight if that truly is the case, but I could see where that might be hysteric.
Thornton. I've watched the video 3 times now and still can't come up with a single valid reason for their thinking. The Biologist stated many facts as to why it would be a bad idea. He never came right out and said it but I gathered that he did not recommend it. I would like to think that they won't go against the Biologist recommendation. I did gather that they had a lot of complaints from the gun hunters about the late start last fall. It was just because of the way the calendar fell. cherney12. I believe what Matte is trying to say is that if they have ever thought of cutting back the archery deer season days this would just be a great start for them. It will prove that they have the power to consider something like that. If we get this shut down they might think twice before bringing something like this up again. We need every bowhunter who can possibly be at the August meeting to be there. It'd be great to have 100 bowhunters show up to prove that we are not going to put up with it.
I was at the meeting and visited with the turkey biologist. I'm not interested in discussing this topic online but will respond privately to EC members and anyone I know personally. Doug Phelps
I will be calling all of the commissioners in the next couple of days to get their take on this matter, and to express my concern. I would highly recommend everyone else that is concerned to do the same.
Doug: what kind of earth shaking, confidential info do you now possess that can't be shared here? Get over yourself.
Why do you think they would want to get rid of a bow only season for deer.
From a business standpoint, they will never remove archery deer season, it simply brings in too much revenue. Not to mention, it's more popular than ever. If they are looking at declining turkey numbers, then contesting this would be shooting ourselves in the foot. I'm not sure about statewide, but bird numbers in Greenwood County have declined vastly from the numbers I saw in the 90's.
Matt Z....I respect your decision to support elimination of the archery only season, but could you please explain why you feel that way? The archery portion is only 9 days every year. I think the youth/disabled season continues through the archery portion as well. After those weekends then the general firearms season opens for the remaining of the season which typical is the last month and a half. I don't see how the 9 days is detrimental.
Patrick....I would agree that Matte's assessment could be construed as hysteria and the sky is falling mentality, but let me tell you a story. A few years back there was regulation or legislation, I can't remember, proposing an equipment change allowing Scopes to be used for hunting on archery equipment. Dave E, aka Keepemsharp, was against this and I didn't think it was that big of deal because scopes were used for 3D and wouldn't work great for hunting due to being in the elements. Cold and moisture would fog them rendering them useless to the hunter. It was fought by a few but most were like me and not concerned. Low and behold two or three years later Crossbows are now legal archery equipment and the regulation was already in place to allow scopes making it easier to shoot long range compared to standard pin sights.
Point is, you never know where something like this could lead. We are talking about a 9 day season for bowhunters. If you are a bowhunter I would think this would be important to you to get a few days to hunt before the masses hit the woods. If not, to each there own. I will still be your friend:)
Matt
According to Comm. Lauber, he had been contacted by a couple of folks and one of them is big in the Governer's One Shot hunt. By having a seperate archery week, THEY have to wait an extra week for shotgunning.
I don’t support the long season on turkeys. We hunt them for two solid months in the spring then from October to February. Coincidentally since 2007 we have seen turkey populations in this part of the state decline drastically. In talking with the biologist and commissioners they see a problem. Archery season has been “growing exponentially” and is starting to interfere with youth and disabled folks especially on public. I don’t see why a special interest group (archers) seem to feel like they are far superior to the gun hunters. Ideally I would like to see youth and disabled get the weekend before the opener. Then shotgun and archers get April 15th through May 15 like it was when we had turkeys. Also fall season from Oct 1 thru December 31. We had turkeys until 2007. Floods from 2007-2010 knocked numbers to the mat. They have never recovered and I know we have had decent weather at least a few times in the last 11 years. There were times in the last few years I didn’t even buy a tag. I have bought multiple tags maybe 2 times since 2010. One thing I have noticed is pressure seems to increase every year. I deal with poachers every year since I moved out here.
Thanks for the response. If you watch the video, one of the reasons Mr. Lauber wants to eliminate the archery season and allow shotguns earlier is because he hopes this will increase success rates in the spring which influence permit numbers including fall permits based on the percentage of successful resident hunters detailed in the KDWPT Turkey Management Strategy, (unsure if that is what they call it). In recent years KDWPT biologists recommended eliminating the fall tags because that is the only time we are allowed to kill hens and the spring harvest showed numbers have dwindled and didn't meet the criteria for a fall season in some of the zones. The commission went against KDWPT recommendations and allowed at least one fall tag in every zone. If you haven't watched the video please do and reach out to your local KDWPT biologist and/or Kent Fricke, KDWPT small game coordinator in Emporia.
Again, I appreciate your response. Turkey numbers have decreased in parts of KS and maybe across KS, but I will respectfully disagree that a 9 day archery season has contributed much if any to that decrease.
Thanks, Matt
I’ve watched the video. I told them previously I’d support one spring and one fall to take pressure off. They don’t want to loose tourism dollars. I’ve talked to Mr. Fricke and the NWTF biologist is a friend of mine.
I for one, think the fall season is too long and I hope they reduce it. As mentioned earlier, archers seem to always get the longest seasons and we've grown accustomed to it. With all the new bows and crossbows, we can killbirds farther than a shotgun. The old mentality was we needed more time due to the handicap of our weapons. This is no longer the case. When I started hunting them at the age of 12, there was no bow season nor was there a youth season. I never knew or missed the difference and had a great time hunting with the grown ups
It didn’t sound to me like it has anything to do with a population decrease. As Marvin said someone complained about having to wait for the archery season and decided they should ask for the seasons to both start the same weekend. Season dates and archery improvements are fine to discuss but it seems they miss the point on why the archery season was introduced and also why the population has decreased. I would guess that moving the shotgun date forward to coincide with archery would result an increase in overall harvest. Knocking the last two weeks off of the season wouldn’t do much for you either, imo.
Dave, it’s not himself. It’s the irrational, panic-prone he’s trying to avoid. I know how he feels anytime someone goes against the mighty KBA. Been that way for decades. Matt, it could also be said if bowhunters keep asking for special treatment, over and over, gun hunters will eventually push back. Big difference between hunting deer with a bow or rifle. Huge. Shotgun and bow? With pop-up blinds, today’s decoys. Crossbows? It’s easier to kill one with a bow, now, than a shotgun before such inventions, back when bows were a handicap for turkeys. For the places I hunt, the first half of April is better than the rest of the season combined.
Matt Z....if it were a biological reason for making the change I could get on board as I agree with what you are saying. Unfortunately I have seen very few changes made by the commission that truly put Kansas wildlife first. More so with deer management.
Michael...I wasn't involved with KBA when the first turkey archery season was started so I am unsure what their involvement was in that initial change, but I have been involved with the KBA for the last 10 years or so and we have asked for very little 'special treatment' from the commission. The current structure is 9 days which is far from the majority of the season. This change will make public lands more crowded imo the first 10 days of season, and many bowhunters will likely avoid them entirely. If you are hunting private land I can understand the change really doesn't affect you as much.
Additional opportunity has been a driving force to many changes the commission has made in the time I have paid attention to the meetings. Why would we now eliminate a 9 day season that provides opportunity for traditional, compound, and crossbow hunters? Just doesn't make sense to me.
Lastly, what do you expect a bowhunting organization to do when the commission is talking about eliminating a bowhunting season? Just accept it and move on? I think that would be doing a disservice to all members of the organization. The irrational and panic prone you mention isn't that at all to me. It is notifying KBA members and all bowhunters for that matter to the changes that are being proposed to the current structure. We aren't campaigning for additional days just to maintain or even revise the season without elimination. Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, and while I may disagree, I respect everyone's opinions.
Happy 4th everyone!
Matt
What I honestly think will happen when bowhunters make a stink is they will pull the gun season forward and give them the 9 days as well.
Matt, that is exactly what Mr. Lauber is proposing in the video of the commission meeting. It may happen if bowhunters 'raise a stink', but it WILL happen if they don't 'raise a stink'.
Matt
I don’t read that in his comments in the video. I take it as he wants to eliminate the early bow season and give youth disabled the first two weeks without competition. I’ve watched the video and drawn my own conclusions.
Ok, Matt, what is the “biological reason” bowhunters need special treatment for a spring turkey season? It’s pretty obvious in the fall deer seasons. It’s “just nine days.” Would you be happy with the last nine days of the season being archery only, instead of the best nine days earlier?
Nebraska has had an early archery spring turkey season for decades. And their's starts in March and goes for about 3 weeks before shotgun season starts. And they have more turkeys than we do. I started hunting the spring archery season in Nebraska about 20 years ago and will continue. Sounds like someone with deep pockets is getting hurt feelings because he can't get at the turkeys before the archers. Same thing happened with cranes a few years ago in regards to setting the waterfowl seasons with one of the commissioners.
If we are going to have an early archery season for turkeys make it "Primitive Equipment" only. That is what the KBA should advocate. Is a range finder, bow sights, release, 330 fps, really archery anyway. Like Thorton said, a compound has more range than shotgun anyway.
Mike, it isn't a biological reason. It is an opportunity. I didn't allude to it being biological that I can see. It is an opportunity to have the time to hunt with less pressure. I acknowledge that, and regardless what you say, it is more difficult with a bow than it is a shotgun. Not always obviously, but the majority of the time from my experience. And again, KBA is not asking for 'special treatment' here, just to maintain the structure that is already in place and set up by Jim Pitman and the turkey committee when they developed the Adaptive Harvest Management Stategy.
I watched the video again in case I miss understood but guess we disagree on what is being proposed. Early on in Commissioner Laubers discussion he mentions reverting back to the way the firearms season opened which was the Wednesday after the first full weekend according to the discussion. At that time Archery/youth was together I think and started April 1st. He then states later we shouldn't put archery back with youth because of complaints from archers. I don't know what complaints were made, but I would agree that the youth/disabled should get there own time in the woods. Mr Fricke asks for conformation at the end and again they talk about merging archery and firearms into one opener. So we would have two openers, one for youth/disabled and one for everyone else that would fall the wednesday after the first full weekend.
Matt
And to answer your 9 day question I'll take April 15 to the 23rd if you are letting us evil bowhunters pick:)
First, I was bowhuntung long before you were born, kid. :-) Secondly, those dates weren’t an option. When did you kill your birds this spring, Matt?
Maybe we should push for public land being left as is and private can have the same date for the opener?
Yes I know, just had to make a joke. Killed them end of April but had hunted a lot. Would have been done much earlier if I gauged them.
If you like to bowhunt as most on here do, they best I can say to you regardless of age, stature or experience. Fight for all we have now, because we will never get more only less.
Because we like our deer. Hunting is about conservation, not just "killinstuff"
Killenstuff....It is besides the 9 day archery season...after that, the next 44 to 50 days are any legal weapon.
Writer I've been hunting before Matt was born also, I'd like to know what that has to do with anything. Does that make me a better hunter than him? I don't think that is what this is all about! I do know what it's like to hunt turkeys when they have been chased with a shotgun, they get smart real fast. Our Secretary said that he has shot many arrows at turkeys and has taken several with a gun. That's great, but how many second chances has he had after a shotgun has rattled them after a miss, and how many times have there been several gobblers in that group that have gotten educated. Writer we don't need a mud slinging contest, we're all hunters and we all respect each other. The gun hunters will kill just as many birds with the season set the way it is now as they would if they back it up a week into bow season. You say that bowhunters are always asking for something, it seems to me all we have asked for is to leave things as they are. How is it going to better the resource, or for that matter help the gun hunters by making this proposed change.
For a number of yrs, the Ks spring shotgun season opened on April 13th, the 1st thru the 12th was youth/disability/archery. Then the youth hunters and mentors complained, they wanted a season to themselves without the archery hunters.
So the state changed the format to the fiasco we have now.. youth/disability can begins April 1st
Archery opens the 1st Monday following the 1st Sat. Of the month,..which means they can have a 2 day youth only season, as they did in 2017, or an 8 day youth season as they did this year.
So now, shotgun season, rather than opening on april the 13th, it opens on the Wednesday followjng the 2nd Saturday of April..thus, it could open as early as April 12th like it did in 2017, or as late as April 18th like this yr...
I would bet money the KOA and the outfitters (not this one) are pushing for this change...when they lost a nearly a full week of gunhunters.
To my knowledge, this was the 2nd yr to have this evolving season date.. i would have to look back in a reg book to verify pre2017 dates...pretty sure im correct..
Dosent matter but we hunt in so east and end of season is always better because the toms arent hend up i would rather hunt may
If we had regulations like Nebraska, I would be all for it. I also would not care if it opened April 1st for everyone regardless of weapon. Shotgun or bow I don't really care. Personally I wish it opened in March for the cooler weather and less ticks. This issue just isn't a big deal to me. However the season is probably too long, and needs to be shortened. I see no need to be hunting turkeys when hens are incubating the nests in May.
What regulations in Nebraska are you referring to Jeff? Archery season opened March 25th and Shotgun opened April 14th and the season ran until May 31st same as KS. Fall season is Sept 15 to Jan 31st? I am not seeing much difference between NE and KS other than they allow a 3 week archery season rather than 9 days that KS has and is wanting to eliminate.
Matt
Incubating nests in May? Shoot, I saw a hen with poults in May this year near Augusta, KS.
You won't get a lot of sympathy from me on the youth turkey and deer seasons. Like Thornton, I had to wait until I was 12 to shoot a turkey. Shortly thereafter, they eliminated the age restriction. The year I finally turned 14 to deer hunt, they reduced the archery age to 12. Now, there is no age restriction. There were no youth seasons aside from one year when I got to do an early youth waterfowl weekend. Tagging along with Dad was the name of the game back then, almost like an apprenticeship. Are we going the way of Texas and it'll be a competition to see who can get their kid a buck at the youngest age?
Let's face it, the earlier in April, the better--so long as there isn't a cold-snap. I'd much rather hunt birds before Tax Day than after in Kansas.
Matt if Kansas copied Nebraska I would be fine, what bowhunter wouldn't? 3 weeks by yourself with all that public land. It always opens on the 25th, regardless of what day it falls on. That's much different than Kansas. Plus it is a blast hunting them in the snow, I believe it was 2005 I was hunting in 16 inches of snow and the temps were around 10 degree's the first morning. That cold snap won't bother the birds as much as it does a hunter!!!!!! My son and I both killed birds in that weather. But going to the end of May is too long in the midwest.
Thanks for the clarification. It just confused me because you mentioned mimicking NE but then mention that losing the archery season we have doesn't bother you and that we should shorten the season which KS/NE currently close the same on May 31st. I wouldn't be opposed to a longer season if there is enough birds, but am satisfied with the current structure. If I need a turkey fix I will head to Nebraska and hunt the earlier dates:)
Matt
I guess I just like hunting NE better than Kansas. Don't think I have ever had a tick on me in NE. I worry more about the damn ticks than other hunters so whatever KS does is fine with me either way.
Hey, DH, did you not see the :-) Matt and I tossed back and forth? He knew I’m a longtime bowhunter when he made his comment. It was a dig between friends. Matt knows I respect him, even if he did miss a slam dunk shot on a bigger mulie than most ever see, last season.
OUCH!! I would think they would just have turkey season and any legal weapon listed in regs may be used. Have a youth hunt the weekend before it opens and be done with it. Birds are not like deer where the gunshots really educate them. Pretty much dumb as a box of rocks, its there eyesight that is about the only thing that saves them. Shawn
I can see where archery could be a concern but not before disallowing baiting turkeys which is rampant in my area.
I can see where archery could be a concern but not before disallowing baiting turkeys which is rampant in my area.
It has nothing to do with harvest. It’s about opportunity for firearms hunters, who make up the majority. Agree, Genesis. Another reason bowhunting has gotten more successful for turkeys in Kansas.
Now Sito will join in on the conversation.
I think the late season is often just as good as April. I shot both my turkeys in late May this year, one on the 30th, and they both came in gobbling their heads off and strutting like it was early April.
Plenty of people like me, if they didn't, I wouldn't have a job.
Look at (9) under the usage of “harvest” as a verb, Killinstuff.
This isn’t the first time you’ve been called-out on here for your handle and probably not the last.
Adding rifles or even shotguns to an extended season would just produce more kills and reduce our herd numbers and big bucks. But then again, you live in Michigan so I figure you knew that firsthand?
This is what Missouri does and they have more turkeys than we do. No need for Kansas to hunt them until the end of May. Use of bait - which includes grain or other feed placed or scattered as to attract turkeys – while hunting is illegal. Limits: Two male turkeys or turkeys with visible beard may be taken during the season, with the following restrictions:
You may take only one turkey during the first week If you do not take one during the first week, then you may take two turkeys during the second and third week. You may not take two turkeys on the same day. Youth season is for ages 6-15. If a youth takes a turkey during the youth season, then a youth can not harvest another turkey until the second week.
2018 SPRING AND FALL TURKEY HUNTING DATES
Spring Youth Portion: April 7 and 8 Regular Spring Turkey Season: April 16 through May 6
And the Missouri spring archery turkey season?
That would be April 16-May 6, along with shotguns and crossguns! Oklahoma runs a 30 day spring turkey season with a 2 day youth hunt.
Assume Missouri still stops hunting at 1 p.m. For decades they had just a two-week spring turkey season.
I found several things interesting from watching the meeting.
#1 - Mr. Lauber seems to have a disdain for archers... maybe I'm reading him wrong. Just curious as to what the history is there? Does this go back to the crossbow issue or way before that? I would really like to sit down with him and pick his brain.
#2 - One person brought this "suggestion" up to Mr. Lauber and then it's quickly moved up as a serious agenda item. This seemed to have come from nowhere... I was amazed to watch how this unfolded. Do any of the other commissioners have a voice? I didn't hear much discussion/debate about this from any of the other commissioners. Did I hear right, that the biologist is NOT in favor of changing it?
#3 - Mr. Lauber made a comment that he had received many complaints or emails in regards to this issue.... he asked the other commissioners if they had. No one responded and I saw a couple shake their head "no".
Once archers are labeled a "special interest" group, I'm afraid the chances of being taken seriously is doomed. Out of all the posts on this topic I appreciate Matt's approach the most and I believe his professional response is exactly the way everyone should handle this when emailing reps/commissioners.
Lastly, I think this is a bad move on the part of the commission if they move forward with eliminating the archery only season. A lot of ways to go about it without eliminating it.
Having your own special season makes it a special interest group. Right?
So what exactly are the reasons that archers should have their own season?
I think I can find in this thread: 1. We are not asking for change, just keep it the same 2. Archery is harder than shotgunning 3. There is no biological reason to change it 4. Additional ("special") opportunity
Am I missing any? If you really want to fight this I surely hope we can come up with better reasons than these.
Turk, if you want to sit down and talk to Gerald, set it up and go do it. He’s just retired, and I assume he’ll be spending even more time at his farm in Woodson County.
I might just do that Writer thanks.
They need to keep it how it is. I am a bow hunter, but if I wasn't, and I saw bow hunters get 9 days before the gun hunters, I would just become a bow hunter. Then I would have 9 full days before the gun hunter. It's that simple. Or just get a cross-gun and you still get 9 days. I also enjoy getting out the shotgun if I need to later in the season. I am against any season starting in March. March is when a lot of our breeding is happening, and we do not need to disturb any more breeding than we already do, or know about.
