minority or majority
Wisconsin
just curious - am l in the minority or majority as to wondering why it's illegal to use buckets and/or barrels for bear baits? feel free to give your input on why you think it should/shouldn't be legal
I think the big reason is that it looks trashy, and it does when you see it in the woods.
if done properly - what's trashy about a barrel in the middle of the woods - no one's suppose to see it except you and anyone else allowed to be there - l baited for yrs in a state where buckets/barrels are legal - l've seen peoples homes that look more 'trashy' than a bait site
The vast majority of baits in WI are one public land, not private land. If we allowed the use of non natural materials, a LOT of junk would get left in the woods every year. I know, not everyone would but let's face it many are slobs. Look at how many threads we have had about members who pick up piles of garbage every year as it is.
As a bear hunter and guide, I see no advantage or need to use barrels or buckets in Wisconsin. There are plenty of slobs out there today that don't clean up after themselves. With a 10 gallon limit I don't see any reason to have it in barrels or buckets. In Canada you are not limited to the amount of bait you use and the outfitters up there use buckets wired to trees so that the bears have to stand up allowing the hunter to see if the bear has junk or not. As far as other states, I have no idea on what they allow.
Even if it were legal in Wisconsin I still wouldn't do it. It looks to trashy. When I place a bear bait I try and make it look as natural as possible, no huge back stops, hardly any cut logs. I do use some hollow logs. Its just the way I like to do things.
the reason l liked baiting out of buckets/barrels is the fact that l can make them rain proof - for the guy that can only bait on weekends it makes it really tough when you bait in a pit or stump and it rains within days after you bait, then your pit is full of water or the bait you had in the stump is mush - also, what if you were required to label your baitsite so that 'trash' sites could be reported ?
I agree that it looks crappy and people would leave them on public land. As it is now I find quite a few bait stumps that guys don't haul out, along with plenty of other garbage. However, I don't see the problem on private land.
I wonder if the bear guide services in Canada are required to remove them once the season is over. I also see many deer blinds made out of brush, logs, natural foliage left on public land. I believe I read some where they are suppose to tear them down at the end of the season.
MF- I agree. As far as guides in Canada, I know some bait the same way we do here with log piles and hollow logs, some use tires with a wood cover, some use barrels. The guide that I have talked to in Canada like the barrels because they set them up so the bear can only get a small amount of bait out at a time and they put a lot of bait in them. Meaning they have to bait less. The guys that bait with buckets use a lot of frozen beaver chunks and molasses.
Mainecheesehead - I have been using hollow logs for as long as I remember and never had a problem with we bait. I do not bury the logs, I set them on a slab and cover them with another slab and a rock when there are coons around. I do like the idea of registering your baits with the DNR, like Minnesota does.
mike - l didn't say register them - l'm saying you should have to have your bait site marked with a sign stating your name & phone number - easier for the warden when he/she knows who to contact also - stumps might work for the guy that can bait often but don't hold enough bait for the weekend only guy
With Wolf Patrol and other nuts in the north woods the last thing I want is my name and phone number on every bait.
I think the bear baiting rules are just fine the way they are and as stated the garbage left in the forests is bad enough without adding to it.
We don’t even put 5 gallons of bait in a log. Once we have them coming in we want them checking for food often not fill them up so they sleep all day.
Maincheesehead - I understand where you are coming from. Even if you are a weekend only baiter you can only place 10 gallons of bait at one time at a bait. Shortly I will be cutting back on the amount of bait I place and baiting more often. Like DT said, you don't want them filling up!
DT - Rad Coranado has been told he is no longer welcome to participate in the Wolf Monitoring Program after he was accused of some improper actions.
I bait primarily on private property and love the hollow stump. They get 10 gallons now and I'll drop that amount just before season. Using barrels or unlimited bait allows bears to feed anytime and most will be nocturnal. Using the 10 gallons or less is if they want to eat they better come early.
This WI needs to do regarding bear hunting!
Limit baits to 3. Guides included.
Register bait sites via GPS with WDNR
Signage on every bait site. WDNR customer # or name/address.
Shorten time of actual bating to 30 days before season.
Start bear season on August 25 every year! OR, private lands August 25 and public - Day after Labor Day!
Good point BT . I'll go farther . Eliminate Bear baiting completely & sell OTC bear tags .
MF - I'll explain....
3 baits? More than enough for a hunter to hunt. Some folks put out 15 baits and claim the crap out of areas - this evens the playing field for everyone. Some, not all guides, hammer the Country side.
GPS baits - keeps everyone honest and the Warden can check on things if need be. A bait site found littered with garbage can be traced back to violator.
Signage on baits again, enforces the 3 bait rule and again if damage or litter - recourse with the owner of the site.
Historically baits seem to shut down about 2 weeks prior to season for many hunters. This date would allow for a better harvest/sightings of bears. Area C has many, many bears these days and like never before.
I have always been told that the reason we don't start our bear season earlier is "recreational conflict" with too many "users" on the landscape.
As far as shortening the season for baiting - Minnesota has proven that baiting bear is and can be successfully done 2 weeks prior to the season.
Our bears are being fed all sorts of CRAP food and too much chocolate.
I know of no studies that support this but have read documentation of the poor health concerns of bears and chocolate.
That's why I propose the "private" land early season (no public conflict user, but the owner and his guests).
Ruger1022 if you wish to eliminate baiting for bears lets also do away with hunting with dogs for bear.
Before anyone has a melt down. I support running dogs for bear and baiting also.
Bloodtrail….. Your concerns are based on what you have experienced in Zone C, am I correct. Over crowding doesn't happen this far North....only had a few issues in all the years when I was a guide. 3 bait rule wouldn't be bad. Trash in the woods, I see 100x more trash left behind by deer hunters than bear hunters. As far as posting a sign, name ect at a bait station I would never want that... Don't want Wolf Patrol or antis knowing where I live, customer ID is already on the cameras, stands etc, so if warden or rec officer wants to know whos stand it is they can already look it up. As far as bears eating junk, its the same you and I eat. There were studies done out of my camp and others here in the North... an interesting comment by one of the researchers...in all the bear studies there has never been a wild bear that had cancer etc, only bears in captivity. Chocolate could be cut back some. GPS locations, reminds me of the movie Hunger Games. Minnesota has proven that baiting bear is and can be successfully done 2 weeks prior to the season...so what's the difference then? Leave it up to the baiter. I enjoy months in the woods.
BT, I agree with a lot of what you are saying for here in zone C. However a lot of your arguments are the same ones many of us used against deer baiting and leaving treestands up overnight. You poo pooed many of those points then...
What BT proposes above is almost exactly what Minnesota does. In my opinion it works there. I would be fine with it being like that in WI too. Opening the day after labor day would be fine with me. Minnesota tried opening the season earlier and the hides were crap. So I hope WI does not make that mistake. The guide services in MN also get 3 extra baits so guides with just a few baits those extra 3 can make a difference. For guides with a lot of clients those extra 3 don't mean so much since some of the clients will usually tag out quick.
How would having your DNR number at a bait site identify who you are? Is that number associated with your name somehow available to the public? Could also use your bear hunting license number. Sort of like what deer hunting back tags were. Does not identify you directly but wardens can easily identify you. Heck our names were actually on our back tags for a while.
Why do we need to change anything? WI. already boasts the highest success rates for bear hunting than any other state in the U.S.
Zone C was never meant to be a quality hunt. It’s simply a management hunt to control and minimize the bear population below HWY. 64.
How many of you commenting to all these restrictions actually bear hunt regularly?
MF + 1. BT I usually agree with most of your opions but your wrong on this one. If you are worried about too many bear hunters out at one time ..... why can hound hunters run bear without a kill tag during the season. Not right.... thanks CC
"How many of you commenting on all these restrictions actually bear hunt regularly?"
I hunt MN about every year I can draw, which takes 2 years, sometimes 3. (we don't start baits until about 3 days before the season opens so we can do it all in one trip. Sometimes we do it without ever having set foot anywhere near the area we chose to hunt.)
I hunt WI every year I can draw, zone A so it takes a while. I often help friends bait, this year I am helping treefarm.
Occasionally Canada.
I know you do Jeff as well as Hoot, and MF.
Jeff.... been baiting or helping bait since I was 19 years old. Missed a few years not many. No reason to change it to what Minesota has.
The wardens know where all our baits are so they can check them anytime they want if need be. Stands have addresses on them. I use chocolate, but in very small amounts mixed in with other bait. From what I've researched about the NH four bear deaths that year there was very little natural forage and some one was feeding bears Baker's chocolate which is actually the highest chocolate containing Theobromine which can be deadly to bears if given huge amounts. If all chocolate was so deadly we'd be finding dead bears all over. I think Wi has got it right when it comes to baiting, 10 gallons max, enclosed in a hollow stump or pit. Mn. has unlimited bait allowed so there huge piles of bait at a lot of bait sites. Why would guides be limited to three bait sites? We have two baits for every client. So essentially a guide could take three hunters max with no back up bait. We don't have baits on top of baits. Our bait run is close to hundred miles and almost all our baits are on private properties.
"How many of you commenting to all these restrictions actually bear hunt regularly?"
This is the first year since 2009 that I haven't ran baits for myself, or friends/family. I was just too busy this year. The DNR has flooded zone C with way too many tags. In my area it could be a very high quality hunt with a little cutting back on the tags.
Every hunter that I know applied for C got a tag this year.
Jeff in MN is correct, much of what I say is based upon Minnesota law and...it works! As far as a Customer ID # - if there are no cameras and no treestand up "before the hunt" as required in many areas - then there would be no ID. Tack a 4X9 placard - takes 2 seconds.
Why would anyone need more than 3 baits? How many then...5? Maybe 15? Level the playing field and everyone makes 3 baits - it's plenty.
Would cut down on hunter interference as well.
Just my opinion.
Have hunted Minnesota and it's a quality hunt and the regulations are easy to follow and appropriate. They have done a great job in that State!
Just up until a few years ago Minnesota was NOT doing a great job, it was awful, to many tags, to many hunters. They are finally getting the hang of things.
Bloodtrail..... the one thing that could stop hunter interference is just issue less kill tags. I was not kidding when I said everyone that I know that applied for a tag in C got one.
Based upon my personal experience MF - I disagree!
Many years ago you could get a tag just about every year. I remember buying them over the counter. Not anymore.
Most ares of Minnesota have a three year wait with the exception of the No Quota zone on the W - NW part of the State.
I would have to say the last 10 year they have "fine tuned" the process and in my opinion (Yah, we all have one), there doing a bang up job. Truly a quality hunt.
I NEVER see anyone where I hunt and it's all public land. And while baiting before season, I have never had a picture of a dog at my bait wearing a radio collar!
Years ago we did see groups from time to time but the system has provided for a quality hunt.
Like our good friend Buckmaster pointed out =- Zone C is a joke.
My buddy had a kill tag last year and on a lark he applied for one this year...AND GOT IT!!!! His wife got a tag as well.
In zone C, I hunt nothing but private, yet I have thousands of acres at my disposal - riddled with bear baits and guys training dogs.
Further North, you wait a lifetime and a half for a tag.
No Sir, Minnesota has it together. Perhaps sluggish years back, but we can take a "few" lesson here in the Dairy State.
And yes, Buckmaster, less tags and shorter "training" season on dogs would be beneficial - but I think I'll see that just about the time a monkey flies out of my butt!
Zone C is comical. Quite entertaining seeing how many bear hunters you can get per square mile.
it's funny how people can change their view on baiting based on species.......cracks me up
Ooooh! Yaaaaa
Ooooh! Yaaaaa
For those long days sitting in a stand and long nites in the basement trolling Bowsite
Bloodtrail if your talking just zone C for some changes I see your point.
You can always tell when you have hunters who know nothing about bear hunting .....cracks me up
The funny thing about deer and bear baiting is you can bait bear WAY before season...not so with deer.
And I am not opposed to baiting bear during the season and a month before season!
Another CHANGE I'd like to see is for those people, for whatever reason FAIL to purchase a tag and the tag goes unused.
Minnesota sets a deadline - you purchase your tag by such a date - don't do it, in the bear lottery it goes and folks can get a chance at that tag.
It would be interesting to see how many "Anti-Hunters" apply and then never use the tag, which allows for someone that would LOVE to hunt to sit on the sidelines.
Just a thought!
Well in the first place, no one should be able to apply for a tag, unless you hold a valid hunting license, which you had to do, in 1989,,,, of course we had the tag transfer, in 1998 and then the 3.00 free for all
Well they can and they do...let's "nip it"..."nip it in the bud!"
Bloodtrail +1. mainecheesehead why not just get hollowed out log??
