Contributors to this thread:
When do the single tags for bow season go on sale? I know it's only a month long and only on the net.
November 11th I think, but you better check the DNR website to confirm.
It's a paper application accepted during the period 8/7 to September 1.
Here is the link to that permit application: https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/hunting/Documents/ResidentEitherSexArcheryDeerPermitApplicationAugust1September1.pdf
Thanks I got it and appreciate the link. $15 only too.
You now when our DNR, had meetings a little over a month ago about the 5 county proposed doe archery restriction zone. I suggested they start selling these single archery either sex tags = OTC & all season long. BUT....There is no way they would even consider that.
Instead they continue to choose to hide these single e-s tags, make them paper only AND only sell them for less then one month, in the summer.
You know why..... $$$$$$$
Our IDNR heads know how to fix our deer herd problems, BUT...making the most amount of money is priority #1 to them.
In the 5 proposed counties archery restriction zone, the gun hunters can NOT buy a doe tag or a combo tag, BUT the archery hunters are forced to buy a doe tag with every e-s tag sold otc ?¿?¿?
restrict gun hunters to zero doe only tags, force bow hunters to buy 1 with every e-s tag sold.....
Any logic in that......nope not at all.... but we are use to that from our IDNR heads.....
I have been saying that for years. ALL about $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Today's DNR is not even close to managing our wildlife like the DNR in the past. Today's DNR is a joke. Now get ready Lynn. We will be asked to move if you think the DNR is that bad. It's all they got. They are the one with the spending problem, not the people who live here.
Comments are pretty simplistic. Obviously the state isn't going to reprogram computers for this. Get a life and grow up.
Lynn Wilcox's Link
Go on sale today according to Maddie at the front desk.
$15 e-s bow tag......deadline Sept 1
There are now several counties, in Il, that the deer population is so low they offer zero antler less gun or muzzleloader tags BUT....our IDNR still forces every bowhunter to buy an antlerless tag, with every e-s bow tag sold, unless you take advantage of this application.
Make an sense to anyone here ??? That is because it makes no sense, it only makes our IDNR more money $$$$ AND that is our current IDNR #1 priority......8^(
Save some money. Save some does. Show our IDNR leadership we are tired of their games they play with our IL deerherd & us hunters.
Tell your friends about these tags & the reasons our IDNR has hide these tags, limited them to only one, made them available for only a month, only on paper forms, sell them only over a month before season & only sell them because they were forced to by an act of legislation !!!
You guys must not have much to do to worry about this. If you need fifteen bux that bad go mow someone's lawn and you will have enough left over for a big mac and fries.
petedrummond....you are the one who has nothing better to do then troll behind my post & bash my post here....
So who here needs to "Get a life and grow up." ?¿?¿?
FWIW Thanks Lynn for keeping some of us informed
Jeez guys, I’ve never minded eating a AO tag. Like Pete said, it’s $15. Do you think they sit on the 3rd floor and split the money?
I get 2 e-s bow tags every year for myself, so that would be $30 in doe tags, yearly, that I never use. (Haven't killed or shoot at a doe, with my bow, since 1998)
I hope to have about 30 more bowseasons in me. So let's just figure being forced to buy 2 extra doe tags yearly X 30 years $30 X 30 = $900
AND...my son also started bow hunting last year & he gets this tag too now.
So see, it is about a lot more then just a simple one time $15 fee that some of our short sighted individuals are not grasping.....
A lot of bowhunters don't like eating those extra doe tags they are forced to buy, so they shoot at any doe that comes by because they got an antlerless tag burning a hole in their pocket. It is another reason our IDNR dreamed up those archery combo tags years ago AND why they eliminated the single e-s tags years ago, to get more & more does wiped out yearly. BUT.... a few people here are too naive to see past our IDNR's little tricks.
Shortsighted people, are a huge reason our IL deer herd is declining at the rate it is. Even when people try to tell them, some people just don't get it.
They simply can't see the big picture.....8^(
Oh I get it. Just tired of hearing how IDNR is blame for everything. Don’t know where you’re hunting, but down here and most areas I go to, the herd is not suffering. May not be as large as it was in the ‘80s, but still pretty healthy.
IDNR should be blamed for any regulation they make that negatively effects the deer herd. Some of the laws those idiots have made over the years prove how just out of touch with reality those pencil pushers are.
Not sure what idiots you’re referring to. IDNR doesn’t make laws. Hummm.
"IDNR doesn’t make laws. Hummm."
IDNR Write ALL ad rules
IDNR Sets most season dates & limits, other then federal migratory birds.
IDNR Supports, opposes or stays neutral on all bills in the Senate & House, that effect them. VERY few bills that IDNR oppose, ever pass.
IDNR sets all gun & muzzle loader tag limits.
Bottom line.....IDNR controls the IL deerherd & most all laws/rules governing it.
The bad thing.....Our current IDNR is ultimately controlled by the political hacks who's priorities right now revolve around $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. ...
BTW...I do live/hunt in a county that sells zero antler less gun or muzzle loader tags and that our IDNR is currently still working on not allowing archery hunters to harvest any does, prior to Oct 15th. Also my county is & has been, well below the DVA rate set by our IDNR.....
Most people realize that the DNR doesn’t make the laws, but you would have to be an idiot to think they don’t have a huge amount of input into what becomes law.
Problem is, it takes money to run any department. The budget set by the legislature is only part of the funds. The rest come from grants, fees and licenses. The more tags they sell, the more money they have to work with. You want the public hunting lands and parks open, CPOs out patrolling for poachers, how do you think those things are paid for? Most of the “political hacks” and “idiots” that I know in the office are hunters. Wayne is an avid Deer hunter. I don’t think their goal is destroying the Illinois herd. If Illinois deer hunting is so terrible, why do I see so many out of state trucks in October? You guys want your cake for free and then eat it all. I don’t know all the answers, but I know that bitching and name calling on a forum board is not the way to get anything done. I guess if it makes you feel better, carry on.
"The more tags they sell, the more money they have to work with." If they don't quit selling so many tags, there's not going to be any deer to buy tags for, then they won't have any money. You go to the well too many times to help satisfy a spending problem, it will go dry. Don't blame it on keeping parks open, and an under staffed CPO. The CPO's do a hell of a job, for being under staffed. What i would like to see is the pay raise scale, across the board, for the last five years. I think it's you DNR employees that "want your cake for free and then eat it." Why can't we bitch? It's HUNTERS money you clowns are wasting.
Stephens- you are always bitching about other guys bitching on here. I guess it makes you feel good. You see the out of state trucks because there is a better chance here than where they are from. That doesn’t mean it is great hunting here. I’m sure that Wayne doesn’t want to destroy the deer herd but the farm bureau would like it destroyed. They have done a good job so far. The people that set up the bag limits don’t care if you actually see a deer, they just want the money for the tag. $26 is more than $15 so make the $15 tag harder to get. If they sold them at Walmart very few people would buy two $26 tags.
Talk about first world problems. I think they should get rid of the E/S only archery tag again to shut up the whiners here. The archery tags haven't gone up like the gun tags did. Hopefully they don't for a little while, or at least a smaller increase. Let's stick to legitimate issues the DNR has.
I would much rather we pay $25/ e-s tag, just like my firearm tags !
Get rid of the bonus doe or button buck tag !!!!! The IL deerherd no longer needs 119,000 antlerless tags forced on us yearly !!!
The state as a whole is way below IDNR's set DVA goal and most counties are below the county DVA goals too. Some are ~40-50% below goal and have been for years.....
Our IDNR knows exactly how to get the herd back to the goals THEY set !! BUT...they will not do the necessary thing, if they disrupt revenue follow to their office.......and that is the sad part...
Money over the IL deerherd......that is why i have a big problem with how our IDNR is being managed right now !!!!!
It didn't use to be that way....
"Let's stick to legitimate issues the DNR has." We are.
Just to respond to a couple statements; I don’t know of anyone that works for IDNR that has has a pay raise in the last 5 years; I’m not bitching about other guys bitching, there’s more to the problem than IDNR issuing too many tags, I don’t care about NR hunters, my point was, it must still be good deer hunting if NR are willing to pay $300+ to hunt deer here. It wouldn’t bother me if they issued 1 buck and 1 doe tag, and you have to declare your method of take. Open the check stations back up and bust the party hunters. I love the statement “119,000 antlerless tags forced on us”. Does someone put a gun to your head and make you buy it? If your talking about the combo tags, who makes you fill that tag? Damn IDNR, making me shoot Deer I don’t wait to! You spend $30 for a combo tag, maybe you should just consider it a buck tag and be thankful. Residents in some states pay more than that to hunt 1 deer in their state. What the heck, let’s just sit back, shoot all the bucks we want and blame IDNR and it’s employees for all that’s wrong in the state.
Lynn Wilcox's Link
If you want to buy an e-s archery tag after Sept 1, you are FORCED to buy a combo tag.
If you don't want to print off an application, fill it all out, write a check & mail it in, you are FORCED to buy a combo tag.
If you are a non resident & want to buy an IL e-s archery tag, you FORCED to buy a combo tag.
So like I said, they are forcing most bow hunters to buy an antler less tag. Knowing full well that a huge chuck of those tags will be filled with does.
No they don't put a gun to anyone's head, but they know full well that A LOT of hunters, who have an antler less tag in their pocket, will use it if they get a chance.....they banks on it....
Remember....IDNR completely did away with single e-s bow tags a few years ago, till FORCED to bring them back.
In 2016, there were 132,981 combo archery tags sold.
In 2016, there were 318 single e-s archery tags sold.
So see, their little tricks to make the e-s tags so difficult, work....
Jim Stephens, I know you don't work in the hunting or deer related areas there at IDNR, but you sure seem out of touch on how they actually manage our herd there. Have you ever actually talked to John, Tom, Paul or any of the other IDNR deer staff about this stuff ?
I have....lots of times over the last 2 decades and as recent as 2 months ago in Decatur at IDNR deer meeting.
Illinois DNR Conservation Wildlife...........Meet our forest wildlife staff =
Forest Wildlife Program Manager
Dr. Paul Shelton is the Forest Wildlife Program Manager and oversees white-tailed deer, wild turkeys, and squirrel management and hunting programs. He is also responsible for conducting statewide research on turkeys and white-tailed deer, including research on Chronic Wasting Disease.
White-Tailed Deer Project Manager
*** Vacant ***
Urban White-Tailed Deer Project Manager
*** Vacant ***
Forest Wildlife Population Project Manager
*** Vacant ***
Forest Wildlife Biometrician
Pat McDonald is responsible for managing, updating, and analyzing the Division's scientific information systems, primarily regarding population data, CWD data, and other biological data.
Wild Turkey Biologist
*** Vacant ****
See Jim, when I read on your website that IDNR no longer has full time deer biologist, I tend to get a little upset. Then I tend to bash our IDNR even more.
Jim, I also knew Wayne Rosenthal is a deerhunter. I have known him for over 30 yrs. He is a good guy on the personal note. We played against each other in a softball league for several years & very good friends with some of his family, BUT I also know he is now a politician first & for most. Has been for years....exactly how he became director. The IDNR has went further down hill on his watch.....bottom line.
" I don’t care about NR hunters, my point was, it must still be good deer hunting if NR are willing to pay $300+ to hunt deer here."
That is just it..... a ton of NR are no longer coming to IL, to hunt deer....
2008.......52,366 NR deer tags sold
2016.....40,657 NR deer tags sold
11,709 less NR deer tags sold in IL ........22% decline, in 8 yrs........very telling !!!!
Lynn give us guidance. What should we do? Will you lead us?
2008 was the high point and started to decline in 2009? Has to be Sheltons fault, couldn’t be less disposable income after the housing bubble burst. Vacant positions in the state, has to be a anti deer hunting conspiracy, can’t have anything to do with hiring freezes from the last 2 governors. It’s good I guess that people have someone to blame and hate. Lynn, do “they” force you or anyone you know to fill that antlerless tag? Just curious. Hope you guys all have a great and safe season.
"Has to be shelton's fault." NO TRUER WORDS. I have NEVER seen shelton on the news, where he was trying to stop the farm bureau, insurance companies, and the governor, for trying to wipe our deer herd out. Wonder why??? How much money does shelton receive from the farm bureau and insurance companies??? Hell, according to you, we don't even need a DNR, if these two groups are handling the permit sales. Why doesn't shelton get some balls and try and stand up against these morons??? The pay off is too sweet. No, let's open up more seasons, weapons, and introduce unlimited OTC permits for both guns and archery. Does this sound like a TRUE DNR??? They are nothing like the DNR we had 40 years ago. Like i said before. You go to the well too often, you will run it dry. Our Grandchildren will be the one's with nothing to hunt. What are you bozo's going to do when the herd is gone, and you don't have any money coming in, at all ??? I don't have any sympathy for the WORTHLESS, DNR. YOU, also have a great and safe season.
Petedrummond.......refresh my memory for me. Is that your true name or an alias you post under here ???
I will have to float my stick with Lynn
Glynn, I didn’t this was an issue to take sides with. I’m not and NEVER have said Lynn or anyone else is wrong. All I’ve ever tried to say, is there’s more to this issue than IDNR selling too many tags. If you limit the fault to that one item, you’ll never solve the problem. Is there a problem with the herd, depends on what part of the state your in. Are there too many tags issued, yes. Are there some boneheaded decisions made, hell yes. Is IDNR solely to blame, nope. Do people need something to blame, yep, and IDNR is an easy target. I’ve worked at DNR for 30 years and I could share issues with my department that would make your head explode. I don’t agree with all decisions, but I can tell you, there’s more forces driving those decisions than most people know. Dealing with one issue, I’m working with Legal staff, IEPA, IDPH, PRI, ISGS, AGO, a Senator’s office, a task force and the company. It can be exhausting. My point is only, that there are things going on that few people see or know, even folks as connected as Lynn. Bottom line, if you don’t look at the whole problem, you’ll never solve the problem.
I'll tell you one thing, the public land hunt had gotten so bad that many gave up on it and now in the remote areas that I hunt there's been an upsurge in mature buck daytime movement. There's still a lot of pressure, but the intelligent pressure has moved on.
Is public land hunting pressure due to too many tags sold or maybe landowners have discovered the value of leasing hunting rights. Several guys in the area I live in have lost ground they’ve hunted because of land sales and leasing. Nothing to do with tag sales. Like I’ve been trying to say, we have to look at every piece of the puzzle.
"Is public land hunting pressure due to too many tags sold or maybe landowners have discovered the value of leasing hunting rights. Several guys in the area I live in have lost ground they’ve hunted because of land sales and leasing. Nothing to do with tag sales. Like I’ve been trying to say, we have to look at every piece of the puzzle."
Lifting the cap on the NR permits was what led to the massive uptick in leasing because of the increase of demand. And so then guys were forced on to the public.
But now the pendulum is swinging back. Some guys hang it up, others hunt the public in other states where the NR tags are restricted like Iowa, others simply don't pursue it and favor other endeavors.
The herd has suffered but then the landowners have benefited, as have the outfitters and as have the NRs who are willing to pay for a much better opportunity. It's not like it's all negative.
I think at this point the damage is done and from my point of view as a public land buck hunter, I have much less competition out there and the quality is improving.
I worried that the skills would be lost as interest diminished but the internet is creating a platform for those who are interested to develop the skills even though there's going to be localized dilution of the skills and the mindset evolving around pursuing the mature animal.
No use crying over spilt milk, let's enjoy what's to come.
George, I agree, except that the damage is done. It can turn around, but we have to be a part of it. Lynn posted a link to a proposed rule on another thread. If you agree with the rule, let them know. If you disagree, make that comment. Speak up where it will do some good. Not on a forum board, complaining about the DNR of whatever state. Take a look at the grassroots movement in Mississippi. At one time, a 90” 8pt was a trophy. It’s a lot better now. There should be caps on all tags, but can you imagine the shit storm that would create? I hope everyone has a safe and productive season.
Lynn, you would be much better off educating hunters on managing deer herds in their own area rather than whining about the DNR year after year. To think the DNR can control deer herds,reasonably, in a state that is overwhelmingly private land, is a stretch of the imagination. Too many variables outside the control of the DNR.
Sureshot- they would manage with a program implementing a concept called bag limits. This system used by some states limits the amount of a certain species that can be killed by each hunter.
Great idea 1boonr..........next thing you know we can mandate private property owners to allow public hunting on their land to control numbers. Controlling deer populations on private land is not as simple as some here like to think, it is really in control of the private landowners by virtue of access. Sure, you can limit tags for all hunters and then you have too many deer in many areas.....again. Many here would be much better off educating hunters about self control in their own area rather than expecting the state to micromanage deer herds. Even on a county wide management program there are huge fluctuations in deer populations depending on hunting pressure on individual parcels of private land.
The bag limit concept worked great for many years. You will always have areas that have more deer than others no matter what the regulations are.
Your right 1boonr, the bag limit concept worked really well before. The difference was that they were bringing numbers back from near zero, now times have changed. When the deer herds were building to their peak numbers we didn't have the extent of private deer herd management that we have today and much of the private land was accessible to hunt for free. Today much of the private land has limited access for free hunting or is leased to hunters and outfitters which limits hunting numbers. The best way to manage this problem is to invest in private land by leasing or purchasing and you can then manage that herd as you see fit. Thinking that limiting tags is a fix all is really over simplifying the issue.
sureshot, please do not bring this logical thought to the discussion. You will tarnish the thread.
I do own land and I am next to a 500 acre no hunting farm but surrounding the huge farm and mine are killers that shoot every deer they see because they can get unlimited tags. They can then use any unfilled tags in the late antlerless season. So much for managing your deer herd.
Steve, what County do you reside in and what County do you own land in?
Vermilion for now but soon to be decatur county Iowa. ??
I would support bag limits on does, but it should be a county by county basis like they do with firearm tags. As several people have mentioned above, some counties have TONS of deer, and others have very few. It seems to make sense that the DNR should survey the herds by county and sell tags accordingly...
To do that, your tag would have to be issued for one county. That would start a whole new crap storm. Not saying it’s not a good idea, it’s just not that simple. It would be as difficult as convincing bowhunters not to shoot does and yearling bucks.
They already issue firearm tags for specific counties...there's a system in place to do so...
Unless you mean the resistance to being required to purchase a different tag for every county you want to hunt in...I could see some guys getting upset about that.
That’s what I mean. I hunt the county I live in and the adjacent county were our farm is. I’d have no problem buying the 2 tags, but if you’ve read this thread, well you know what I’m talking about.