Grasshopper's Link
In reading this survey, I am very concerned about the list of proposals we may see for our seasons.
See the link, appreciate the help.
Grasshopper's Link
http://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pages/SeasonStructure.aspx
Grasshopper's Link
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1srwmzrpTzOH3_QWQhWGog0lCbSDrasFs
Here's everyone's chance to participate. The 'cheerleaders' of certain topics can now vote on 'their' favorite way to hunt.
I think bowhunters are gonna get screwed
I assume there will be a chance for me to fill one out thats filled with ways to limit rifle, muzzleloader and nonhunters in order to "improve" things? Not holding my breath.
They are missing an opportunity with us. We pay the same, take less game and create more recreation days per tag. We have less impact on other users in the area and are perceived as less of a safety risk. When managing a limited resource, trying to get maximum revenue per available surplus animal and maximum opportunity to the citizens in a crowded state, bowhunting should be looked at as one of the best tools they have.
I don't bowhunt exclusively but its by far my favorite and its felt like that "target" has been on our backs since I was old enough to big game hunt in the 80's.
If you don’t belong to the CBA and you love bowhunting, now would be a good time to join.
*edited
What about all of the rifle hunters that CPW puts into the field overlapping archery?
That is a bigger issue than muzzle loaders. Although, I am also totally against the muzzle loaders overlapping archery as well.
Yet another stupid survey that does not address the biggest issues. With the simplest solution. Get the rifle hunters out of archery season!
For God’s sake, CPW and the Wildife Commission can not seem to get that thru their thick heads!
Nor, does it seem, can CBA. Continued addition of “just a few extra rifle hunters for this species or that” is no big deal, as long as we get to keep our OTC elk and 30-day season....
We bowhunters do not even have a “archery only” season any more. We have allowed rifle hunters to hunt throughout what was supposed to be archery. Gun hunters are out there for about every day of the season formerly known as archery.
How is it that all the other western states can provide ARCHERY ONLY seasons and Colorado keeps piling more rifle hunts on top of bow hunters?
Death by a thousand cuts.
The way this survey is worded, Bowhunters will lose even more.
Is this the only survey out there? It seems like archery/muzzle loader seasons are the only issue.
Really why should they? We have the lowest rates, the longest season and license sales have increased. To me, that is the perfect storm for the CPW to do whatever the hell they want.
Point Banking is out the window, the Hybrid Draw is a farce and like Treeline mentioned above, there isnt an 'Archery Only' season anymore. And from what I read, OTC could be limited even more.
What happened to the proposal of creating more limited draw units? Why not bust into the 'Quiet Time' for some new limited seasons? Wyoming doesnt have a quiet time for elk.
There's only so much pie and our slice isnt very big to start with
While there has always been a focus on the Early Season ie, the archery season, it was not until the number of bow hunters had increased to their current level has the focus gained a higher level. In 1989 there were 16,000-20,000 bow elk hunters. Today, 48,000 resident and non resident bow hunters purchase an elk license. Why the increase, well, OTC licenses have made Colorado a major hunting destination and that has been spurred on by social media and the CPW advertising.
During the mid 1990s, Colorado boosted an elk population of 320,000 animals, the largest in the US. Today, that past population has been reduced to 265,000 elk and this is the Long Term Level the CPW recommends statewide.
How many bow elk hunters are too many? The CPW staff must feel that there might be too many currently as the increase really increase during the past 5- 10 years. As in the past, some of the OTC units have been changed to Limited Draw units because the CPW's studies that too many Early Season bow hunters might be pushing too many elk onto private properties on into areas where later, the rifle hunter have a hard time finding them and managing them. This happened in a few on the units in the Flat Tops years back and more recently, units in the Gunnison Basin.
There has been and currently, bow hunters who have expressed that all elk units should be Limited Draw and that they would support that even though they would not be able to hunt each year and many, only a few times in 5-6 years at the most.
There have been rifle hunters who also expressed that bow hunters have it too good with a 30 days season, or that bow hunters are pushing the elk too much prior to the rifle seasons or that bow hunters are killing too many bull elk.
THe CPW staff hears the complaints, hears the recommendations, and so they will focus on this issue to see if there is a way to control the increase in bow hunters during the elk season. More limited units, all limited units, OTC with caps, Bulls only in some units, etc.
Hard to imagine that in the future Colorado might not have OTC units or that we might not be able to hunt elk each year with bow in hand.
That was my thoughts too. I just finished looking at the scoping sheet and looking at all the topic areas, the only one that would be controversial is the archery seasons issue. Looking at the pronghorn, moose, whitetail and bear topics, it's hard to find anything to be concerned about unless you are a hardcore PETA type.
The survey alternatives on the Archery season come across as "we are going to do one or more of these things, so pick your poison."
I answered the first question stating that I'm a muzzle loader just because in the past twenty five years there has been three that I didn't bow hunt but I've hunted ml every year. But, other than that my perspective was all in favor of the bowhunter point of view.
There is a time slot available but its taboo to use it for anything other than some special rifle seasons. We lost 20% of our opportunity in limited units to the land owner pool. I'm not excited to lose 1/3 of my available season days as well. Crowding is an issue? Well, if they separate seasons and all the bowhunters have to cram into 3 weeks instead of 4 that wouldn't exactly help things.
Yes, bowhunting has increased. Its a huge success story from a revenue and demand standpoint when other areas and other types of hunting are fighting to retain and increase participation. Maybe the solution is to increase the share of tags, access and season length to accommodate it instead of removing opportunity. If we lose OTC in an effort to improve the experience, non-residents will lose big. Currently they outnumber resident OTC tag holders. If we go limited, they get capped at the NR limit and thats after the 20% slice of landowner tags would be removed from the total pool. Revenue is a giant issue.
"It is obvious by the way the questions are worded that archery licenses and what clothing archers wear are being targeted. First is there really a problem with overcrowding during archery season or is it an issue with a bunch of whinny hunters. Yes, I would love to have the woods to myself, but that is not going to happen. I have learned to adapted to other hunters and use their movements to my advantage. If you want to look at overcrowding, look at any and all over the counter rifle seasons. Leave my archery seasons alone!
It is very concerning that one tragic incident since the beginning overlapping muzzleloading and archery season, warrants a change in what archery hunters must wear in the field. The death of that young man was tragic, but from the available information, wearing florescent clothing may not have changed the outcome. You cannot fix stupid and yes it is very stupid to shoot at a sound in the wood. This rule is very much stressed in hunter safety, but still happened?!
In truth archery hunters must deal with rifles in the woods most of the allotted season. Bear season starts September 2nd. This leads me to another point, in the area that I hunt we run into more bear hunters that we do other archery and or muzzleloading hunters. Are you going to reduce the number of bear hunters in the woods? No, I’m not asking you to do that, I’m just stating a fact.
I am against any changes that CPW are contemplating that reduces and or limits my current hunting opportunities. In short, leave my hunting opportunities alone!"
My personal thoughts are to not have any overlap, having muzzleloaders and archers in the woods during what should be the most epic time of the month has turned that week into a complete gong show. Almost everybody I know gets out of the woods anyways and runs back home for a refit.
But I will answer consistent with whatever CBA has established as the company line, as they are more in tune with the local politics of conservation.
Is it Justin's Fault for not wearing orange? It was a sound shot, Guy did not know his target and simply fired! He could not see his target so orange would not have helped. So by reducing any days in archery season you are saying it's Justin's Fault??? By changing the seasons at all you saying its Justin's fault.
Is it the fault of archery and muzzleloader being at the same time? No not at all, does every muzzle loader make a sound shot??? Does every archer??? NO!!
With all the infusion of cash the CPW is receiving they could easily set up a on-line system that will re-educate every hunter as to what "sound shots" are acceptable and which are not!!!
Every two years mandatory on-line hunter education. You fail the on-line test you have to retake the two day test in person regardless of age or resident or non-resident!
2017 Elk 47,727 archery hunters. 30 Day season I don't know for sure if the number includes OTC archery hunters? Anyone?
11696 Muzzleloader hunters in total. 10 day season. 12025 1st Season Rifle hunters. 5 Day season.
There was a dog and a cat. The cat watched the dog get up on the counter and eat a whole apple pie. When the owner came back in the room they punished the cat for watching the Dog!
Its an easy answer: No Gunpowder until October!!! The increase in the bear population will off set lack of harvest for 1st rifle season which starts after Muzzleloader season. Muzzleloader season starts after the first week of October, then 1st, 2nd 3rd and 4th.
Over the years the commissioners have heard a whole lot of complaining from bow hunters about the mixing of the ML and archery seasons. For the most part it's summed up with "get the ml guys out of OUR season". It's no wonder that some of the options seem to target bowhunters. The growth of bowhunting in Colorado along with complaints about crowding, deteriorating hunt quality and now safety is being made an issue too so it could be that they are going to address all of these "issues" and try to solve them with season structure changes. Let's not forget that while many of us don't have safety concerns, bowhunters who want the seasons separated have cited safety concerns over and over. Some are truly concerned but others have simply brought up safety as a pretext for getting the seasons separated.
If season structure is going to be the solution to crowding, safety and general dissatisfaction with ml and bow seasons mixing, then what are the options?
Many bowhunters who have been closely involved with the commission have said more than once, "be careful what you wish for".
Yes, if they were willing to use the first part of October there is room. It would be one of the best muzzleloader elk seasons in the country. I think the only new seasons that will use the "quiet period" will continue to be rifle seasons.
Moving ML to the quiet period will make us both bigger targets for those rifle hunters who say animal movement in early seasons is a problem.
Has the study with respect to bowhunters impacting elk movement in the Flattops ever been completed? Those units went draw for archery and still OTC for rifle a long time ago as a “temporary/trial” study. I thought the original plan was to go back to OTC archery after the study was complete - like 5 years? Those units have been draw for a very long time and I am not sure any study was ever completed.
I guess there will always be complainers, which is why there have to be discussions. As for "pushing onto private" - we've seen elk on the last day or two of the season as often as not. If you've spent 2-3 weeks in the woods, and can't find the fresh tracks & sign, you need to find a better spot ( or maybe become a better tracker). If they actually do carve 9 days out of bow season for muzzy, I'll probably just start going a week earlier, scout more, and have an even more successful early season. I doubt it will happen ( permanently), especially if a "trial" result in tens of thousands of howls of protests from the growing archery army, especially if there is ANY loss of revenue from fewer tags sold...
