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Wis NRB and our WCC

A concern to me, is how conservation issues are being addressed now in the state. We have left science, or data, for political, feel good science. Case in point, on Wed the NRB is going to vote to shorten the grouse season.

The WCC has also asked for this. Based on the fear of West Nile disease, that they have no info on, they believe no late season hunting will save the birds......

I could accept this, if they had any data, but they have none. Our upland bird biologists have told them hunting has no affect on the two year cycle of a grouse life, and its all about habitat. I also would add, turkeys also take the eggs but all in all if there is habitat, the birds will survive.

Once a season is closed or changed, you will never get it back. The NRB and the WCC had no data. If they would wait, and study and collect data, and than make a decision, that would be one thing........

I think it is sad, from how I see our WCC and NRB, working against the advice for people paid, to study and do the work........ I really wonder if the vet, on the NRB board, who so wanting this, even bird hunts,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

This is the new norm of wildlife mgt in Wis, and it could affect how our deer seasons will go in the future,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, stay tuned, because I do not see a lot of positives, on our total wildlife mgt, with this crew...................

Rule making needs balance. Don’t think that all biologists have the hunter’s best interest at heart.

Capt Mike - And I am not so sure they should have.

I'm kind of thinking their "Heart"" should be with the species that they are studying, making sure that they (species) is being protected appropriately, using the best science.

I believe we have gotten away from the "science" and often times lead with our hearts or "will"...

No different than falconry. The "best" practices should be, in this case, the birds and that that they are being protected and that the practice doesn't have any ill effects on the particular species involved.

I do agree with "ground hunter" however.

Good post!

I have told all of you... on multiple occasions, opportunity will continue to be decreased. What part of it do you not understand?

Good article Drop Tine.

BT, I’d agree that wildlife not be managed strictly for hunting or for any other single issue. My point was that we need balance with decision making and that rules/laws should not be made by any one group.

I also read that article DT. MI will not change their season, and they stated, that habitat is the answer, in their opinion. also I heard about the "road" grouse count, but I know as a trout bum, I heard plenty of birds, 1/4 or so, back off those roads, on the streams.

Even with the article, they still have not justified a reason to close the season, it will have no affect whatsoever...... I am glad to see they are finally going to a grouse mgt plan,,,,, along with MN and MI.......................

The closure is premature, I hope they do not do it, but it looks like that is the way it will go,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I was surpised that Zimmer would go against the biologist.........

This type of mgt behavior will affect other seasons in the future,,,,,,,,,,, I average about 200 hours a year hunting grouse and wood cock

There are several things that don't get mention. One is that what is up for discussion and approval is for an emergency rule to close the season early this year, not a permanent change. Perhaps this is an overreaction, but maybe erring on the side of caution is better than waiting and having the population loss be more severe. Second, the late grouse season has not been on the books for very long and was done without any study as to the impact it might have, the demand for the season, etc. This isn't a season framework that has been in place for decades and is a sacred ritual we have all live for every year. Third, many biologists are starting to feel that grouse harvest maybe isn't entirely compensatory, especially for birds that are harvested late in the season. Fourth, there are very few hunters out beating the brush during the late grouse season. The vast majority of the birds killed then are budding birds that are being killed by road hunters, which isn't hunting. It's killing that involves no sport. Fifth, there are two issues that are being combined here. The possibility of a large die off due to WNV and the impact of harvesting birds late in the season on the overall population. Sixth, there has never been a grouse management plan or significant data collection on bag limits, season lengths/dates, etc.

I personally don't want to see an opportunity taken away from hunters who are passionate about grouse and want to be able to hunt a longer season. I don't grouse hunt a lot but enjoy the opportunity to grab a shotgun and go out with the dog after I'm done deer hunting to scout or just enjoy a pretty winter day. I also know that it is extremely rare for me to find anyone who is out bird hunting after the gun season. I can't tell you the last time I came across one on the road or in the woods and I work in the woods every day. If the season is closed it will affect very few people.

I feel the best thing we could do it lower the bag limit. Any grouse hunter should be happy to spend a day in the woods and take home three birds. I am quite certain that virtually the only people that get their limits are people road hunting and we should do whatever we can to discourage them any way.

Locally I have not seen a dip in the grouse numbers. I have actually seen quite a few birds this year working in the woods and driving around the area. There are however areas that have seen a dramatic change in bird numbers and it can't be explained exactly what is happening and people are rightfully concerned about it. Maybe having an emergency early closure and pushing for some data is the best approach rather than taking a wait and see approach. For as long as I have been around it seems the DNR/NRB has always been accused of being too slow to react or being tone deaf when hunter concerns are brought to them. I guess I would be ok with them taking this action to give them a chance to get a better handle on exactly what is going on before we have a real problem.

"but maybe erring on the side of caution is better than waiting and having the population loss be more severe."

Too bad they don't think that way about deer.

Skook sums it up well but around here, I am not seeing the grouse numbers we had years ago and have not seen them in quite some time. Droptine shared an article with the study that might bring some science into the decision Groundhunter, ruffed grouse have a ten-year cycle, not a two-year cycle. But I do share your concern over the DNR not using good science for making the decisions lately. Too much run by politicians now.

hey I know grouse,,, I did not say they had a two year cycle, what I said was that the average grouse lives about 2 years, maybe 3...... the lack of snow, the population of turkeys, and the loss of habitat, as not helped the grouse at all....

However the closure of the season, from those who do not even hunt grouse for the most part, and like skook said, hardly ever see anyone hunting, what good is a closure going to do....

Prior to last season, I had some fantastic hunting in late Dec and thru January... I get so sick of being dictated by the Madison crowd and the WCC who have no clue about late season grouse hunting

next year, when my wife retires I will be a full time MI resident, glad for that

That would be lifespan then. It was misleading as you stated.

One of the more cerebral threads. Too many think the DNR is here for the hunter when they are looking out for the resource. The legislature tends to vote for the voter not the resource. The vast majority of legis changes have allowed harvest opportunities that diminish the resource with a short term benefit for the hunter; bow hunters hunting being ok after dark until they shoot, crossbows, no deer, turkey physical registration, ML scopes, etc. Trend is too obvious to ignore.

One could also argue that the trend is to not over burden the legal sportsperson, in an attempt to catch a minority of lawbreakers.

A google search with “ WI DNR scientists and Walker” in it should explain why there’s no research to base decisions on. This isn’t political it’s fact.

Buttjabber, comprehension is key if you want to attempt dialogue. There was no mention made of “landowner” and you offer no proof of your alcohol induced perspective.

It wasn't long ago that Rancid, Capt. and many others couldn’t wait to get legislators involved in making rule changes. Back tags and tree stands left out ring a bell?

With Pandora’s box opened they now can’t keep their hands off wildlife and hunting issues wether legislation was sought out or not.

In the case of the Grouse I would rather see them being proactive rather than reactive. I have not seen a grouse this summer in the spots that normally have them. Even years where they are in their down swing I still see a bird now and then.

With more logging going on it could be a greater dispersal as better habitats are created. I don’t know?

DT as you said before, you do not bird hunt. The key to grouse, is HABITAT, SNOW, and less predators....... TURKEYS, sure do not belong in grouse areas but it is what it is

The complain about SW Wisconsin losing their grouse, and landowners kept at Habitat. Well they do not have the needed snow anymore down there, a lot of raptors, and they went to turkeys,,,,,, nothing wrong with that just a fact..............

Closing December season will save no grouse. I shake my head, Leopold must be turning in his grave, your trying to legislate conservation, without any data.

I can assure you of this. I have heard a decent number of grouse along the Brule river, and this is the boundry Brule.. I have seen good number of grouse on the roads, going into the Wis creek, and Le Roy creek trout fishing, plus many others

Yes numbers are down, but shutting down a few weeks of hunting is just dumb. Come on man, who is walking around the woods, shooting them out of trees, heck I see very little other hunters if any, during the late season.

A mild winter January was some of my best hunting. Being sensitive to the situation I would not take anymore than 2, and lucky to get that in a good season.

Poachers are going to poach no matter what. Shutting down a season of opportunity for those who enjoy it comes right out of the Sierra Club hand book.................

The WCC and the NRB, must think that every one hunts from Park Falls west, it drives me nuts

Hmm, I don’t recall saying I don’t bird hunt. Especially when I have two bird dogs.

DT you have two fine dogs,,, tell me what is accomplished with closing the late season? What data is there that any of us hunting will have an impact....?

Reducing the days afield is the greatest way to reduce harvest. That’s why there are 30, 45, or 60 day duck seasons.

The grouse is a valuable resource to tourism in WI. I run into several guys each year that are from the south and south eastern United States that are here to hunt grouse and woodcock and spend lots of money doing so here.

Until the DNR for WI, MI, and MN have an understanding of what’s going on I would rather error on the side of caution. I would hate the grouse end up like the pheasant.

If hardly anyone is hunting the late season, how much harm is it to implement the emergency rule for this year while everyone tries to get a handle on what is going on (if anything) and what should or should not be done about it?

I have an unpopular idea.

Change the weapon for grouse from scatter guns to .22. More challenge and fun for hunters, fewer birds will be taken, less meat damage.

Well DT I respect your opinion, and I understand what you are saying, me I just do not agree. Biologist in MI, also do not agree. Anyway, its good to see a 3 state study, and a grouse mgt plan in the making..................

Skook that is my point, with so little if much late season pressure, closure is not needed,,,,,,,,,,,,,, again I agree with our upland game biologists

stay well you guys,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

You need to scroll down to find the information on the grouse monitoring program if it doesn’t open up to that spot.

Maybe with on line voting..... we won't need the CC.

No DT, don’t need legislators involved in every issue but certainly need them when lazy hunters and their enabler husbands attempt to take advantage of existing seasons.

"lazy hunters and their enabler husbands attempt to take advantage of existing seasons. " Now thats an interesting statement coming from a guy clutching his high tech compound while sitting in a high fence enclosure waiting for his "trophy" to show up. LOL! What a comedian....

CaptMike .... there sure seems to be a lot of hypocrites and jealous hunters out.

From a guy who does not use his real name or where he is from.

Buck, they are a pitiful little bunch. Jealousy is such an ugly human trait. On top of that they assume they are intelligent or enlightened. We all know what that makes them but I rather enjoy letting these simpletons expose themselves to the group. By the way, spent a few hours chasing poachers this evening. Yes, I carried a firearm, not a bow. Lol!

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