ATA has second thoughts about Crossbows
Michigan
http://www.ezflipmags.com/Publications/ArrowTrade_Magazine/68/#p=4
click on the link
Reigning in Crossbows
Arrowtrade has long seen the potential crossbows had to introduce non-archers to bowhunting and enable older bowhunters to keep in the field. Now, after attending the April ATA Board of Directors meeting, I will admit some reservations.
At that meeting, some board members were concerned that powerful new crossbows were far outpacing vertical bows in performance and would be difficult to consider as primitive weapons entitled to long seasons. The surprising data from the 2017 Wisconsin hunting season, during which crossbow hunters tagged more deer than vertical bow hunters for the first time in history, also drew a lot of attention from the board. Crossbows were just legalized for all Wisconsin deer hunters in 2014 and that is pretty dramatic evidence that modern, high-performance crossbows are easy to use and highly effective.
Comments from retailers and a distributor on the board also indicated anecdotal evidence that crossbows are not serving as a gateway to other forms of archery. Since little practice is needed to stay proficient with them, that can hurt sales of arrows, releases, sights, and many other accessories that retailers depend on to stay profitable.
The board voted 15-2 to study whether the ATA position statement on crossbows, adopted back in 2008, should now be revised. The existing statement reads, in part, "The ATA believes that crossbows are viable shooting and hunting equipment that provide opportunity for a segment of America's hunters and recreational shooters...The ATA leaves the seasons and regulation governing the use of crossbows for hunting to each state wildlife agency. ATA believes that when populations of wildlife, like deer, are overabundant, state agencies should make use of every type of hunting equipment to help control and manage those populations." A study group consisting of staff and board members has formed, has met once and is in the process of gathering data, Arrowtrade was told by the ATA early in June.
In the meantime, I would suggest major crossbow manufacturers declare a halt to the speed race. Speeds in excess of 400 fps and advertisements claiming the accuracy potential at 100 yards and beyond are only going to draw more negative attention from game departments. Nobody in the bowhunting industry will benefit if archery seasons are reduced as a result of the perception that crossbows are morphing into crossguns.
Major sports typically set equipment limitations, from the characteristics of golf balls to the types of engines used in NASCAR. The eight major manufacturers that sponsor the North American Crossbow Federation could consider a 400 fps limit: nothing to be advertised or warranted beyond that. Existing models that exceed that could be packaged with heavier arrows to fit within the new guidelines. With the speed limit in place, manufacturers could still innovate in ways to improve accuracy, comfort, reliability, and ease of use.
Setting these voluntary limits on crossbows would help them be viewed by the public and state game agencies as equipment that is not radically different in performance from a compound bow
-Arrowtrade, July 2018
So many have given up bowhunting for crossbow hunting. How many on this forum are actually bowhunters vs crossbow hunters?
Good question. 200,000 crossbow hunters in Michigan in2017
How many on this forum are actually bowhunters vs crossbow hunters?
Are people who shoot compounds bowhunters?
They are bowhunters if, and only if, one uses the P&Y Club definition. Which of course changes over time.
Oh goodie. I was worried my son and I might have to apologize if either of us killed a deer with our compounds this year. Now I just have to hope our neighbors are not crossbow hunters killing
OUR deer.
The problem with the golf analogy is that it only applies to competition golf covered by PGA rules. Joe Golfer can use his Big Bertha club with maxi-flight balls on any public course without retribution or being kicked off the course. Asking crossbow manufacturers to voluntarily follow guidelines suggested by another body will go nowhere. How well did the manufacturers of compound bows adhere to the guidelines passed by the Pope and Young Club? Only state-enacted laws have a chance at "freezing" crossbows at their current technology level. And that is not going to happen because nearly all state game agencies care more about selling licenses than they do in preserving the integrity of a sport.
The archery harvest in Wisconsin actually went down last year.
Still use my mathews compound
Crossbows are causing an erosion of bowhunting and the culture of hunting the hard way. Crossbow users are crossbow hunters, they are not bowhunters. Crossbow hunting is increasing, bow hunting is on the decline.
No issue with crossbows causing over harvest, guns do way more killing. Harvest will be controlled with game managers by regulating seasons, drawings, and opportunity. Michigan has too many deer in lots of areas, should increase the doe killing. Maybe crossbows will help with that, a positive for their use.
If you don't have doe tags your kinda screwed. You get to doe watch bring a camera.
.....and those of us on Jerry Bartnik's crossbow committee predicted this would happen back in 2000-01. There is an initial spike as firearms hunters cross-over and some less motivated vertical bowhunters opt out for a crossbow. This shifts harvest data towards crossbows, as there are more in the field and more efficient hunting tools. Then like the original muzzleloader season, crossbow manufacturers have to come up with faster and more efficient models to keep folks interested. Those who claimed nearly 20 years ago that there was no significant difference between a modern compound and a typical crossbow certainly did not share the vision of Ravin's ad, "This is your next rifle".....bragging 100 yard sub-3" groups. Well those of you who pooh-poohed the "slippery slope" that some of us kept point out.....here you are on a sled heading for the bottom of the hill.
Modern scoped crossbows are killing bow hunting, and the associated culture of Michigan bow hunting. Greedy hunters are the enablers.
It’s not just hunters. Our society in general wants everything easier, faster, right now with the least amount of effort.
YUP, we now live in a got to have now society. The hell with learning and working. The need to ban all crossbows.
Its not only that, but the lack of respect for the land, that's what I do not get..... You read that dribble in MI outdoor news, or all the hero stories in Water and Woods, but you never see an article, from one of those, outdoor writers, talk about the way the land is treated.....
mostly because they are not out much, but the disrespect for the land, is the main problem, as I do not care what you shoot................
I never thought I would see the slob deer hunting, I see today in the UP,,,,,,,,
I bet most on here start their children out with a scoped crossbow, thinking it will be only temporary. It does not work that way the vast majority of the time. Hunters and hunting parents are the enablers, kids merely do what they are taught to do. Bowhunting is now reserved for the elite minority, those willing to actually practice, hunt, and enjoy the experience. Real bowhunting will continue to decline, fake bowhunting will continue to increase for a bit. Glad I never raised fake bowhunters.
On the MBH facebook site a guy had a picture of a 9 or 10 year old who was being taught how to shoot a crossbow for the mentoring season and the string on the crossbow broke. The boy had a good mark across his face. If that doesn't change someones mind nothing will.
In some cases parents just don't take the time to teach their kids archery basics with traditional equipment. Shooting traditional is not like using a compound. Anyone can grab a compound with a sight and shoot it. Traditional equipment takes time to learn and practice and in most cases (not all) parents just don't take the time.
I'm taking the time to teach my grandson.
Good for you SF. My grandkids are so involved with sports there’s no time for me to teach them. At least I can take them fishing in the summer when school is out.
This is an old topic here. It it has gotten more civil. The fact is, there fewer hunters today then in the past and most areas of Michigan are at or above the carrying capability of deer for the habitat. Michigan needs to kill more deer to maintain a healthy herd. If a hunter prefers to hunt with a traditional bow, they should or if they prefer a compound they should use that and same for a crossbow. If you are hunting legally, then I think it is great you are enjoying deer hunting. If the number of hunters goes down, the antihunters get more powerful. We need to enjoy what we have and support all legal hunters. The key issues are loss of hunting land, loss of habitat and deer diseases.
Given the high population of deer, especially in CWD units, they should also consider expanding gun hunting to include the rut, at least on private land. Maybe start gun hunting a week or two earlier.
Lew you are the statesman, very well said........... Missouri I could not agree to that in the UP,,,,,,,
Not in the UP, on private land in CWD units.
Ground hunter and missouribreaks. Do you folks live in Michigan?
Sometimes I do, but am not a resident.
Jon not at this time, I just own property, and a cabin, and more property in the UP.... next year when my wife retires, will be in the UP full time,,,, probably in Iron County although I prefer Octanogon County..........
I love the western UP, and I have been all over the UP////// I usually am in my cabin from August till May,,,,,, last year had to have my heart fixed, so back down to Milwaukee for that........
back and forth the last several week, will leave sunday, and will be be there till Nov 4 when I leave for SW Wis to hunt the rut and gun for 3 weeks, than back at my cabin in the up, where I will trap, on both sides of the Brule till April
thanks, I just love it, and have a very well trained mentor and trapping friend.... he has taught wardens, and gives info at the big rendezvous, like the last one here, over in Escanaba........
oh and bow season starts, and this year, I am using only my Black Hunter long bow, till late season, than switch over to the compound........
Let's not forget that the ATA is not a hunting organization per se, it is a
trade association. The ATA is not about preserving a particular bow hunting culture, or preserving seasons. The ATA is about insuring industry profitability.
"The Archery Trade Association is the organization for manufacturers, retailers, distributors, sales representatives and others working in the archery and bowhunting industry. The ATA has served its members since 1953. It is dedicated to making the industry profitable by decreasing business overhead, reducing taxes and government regulation, and increasing participation in archery and bowhunting. The organization also owns and operates the ATA Trade Show, the archery and bowhunting industry's largest and longest-running trade show worldwide."
With that in mind, the following has me wondering about what was said in the OP's linked article from Arrow Trade Magazine:
"Comments from retailers and a distributor on the board also indicated anecdotal evidence that crossbows are not serving as a gateway to other forms of archery. Since little practice is needed to stay proficient with them, that can hurt sales of arrows, releases, sights, and many other accessories that retailers depend on to stay profitable.
Make no mistake, I am not anti-profit, quite the opposite actually.
However, if the ATA is having second thoughts, it is not in regard to what is being suggested. The notion that the ATA's concern is that of the bowhunting culture and not of industry profitability is rather naïve.
What they may have miscalculated is the financial benefit that crossbows would/could bring to the table, not the impact they would have on a particular bowhunting culture.
KPC
PS: I hunt exclusively with a recurve and have for decades. Just keeping it real.
In a mailing from my state senator he states that x-bow shooters numbered 206,000 and killed 95,000 deer. michigan
Those numbers would have to be reported numbers. Unless you fill out a survey and report the weapon you use and if you took game with that weapon, no-one knows factually how many crossgun hunters are out there and how many deer they took. I don't fill out surveys.
Ground Hunter...... I see that they changed the law this year and you can’t set foothold traps near exposed bait...... Do you know the reasoning for that change ??? I figure that it is to avoid getting cubs in foothold traps.........
I guess I can’t set dogproof coon traps near deer bait anymore.......
The trap law is very vague. If you can't see the bait from above, I think it is ok. Maybe it is to keep birds away. Hopefully someone can clarify.
Big Bear, check with your local warden for interpretation,,,,,, dogproofs, are a lot different than standard foot holes,,,, as I understand it now, but I will double check, you could still use them
I would think that the rule was not to prohibit dog proof traps, I’ll do some checking and try to get an answer.
After bringing it up at a district meeting today I’m convinced it does not affect the dog proof type raccoon traps.
OK thanks Scott...... Did they happen to talk about the reason for that change ?? I have been speculating that it is to avoid getting bear cubs caught in foothold traps near bait..... ??
Someone mentioned raptor groups concerned about hawks and owls seeing bait and getting stuck in a foothold.
