I'm just guessing, but what probably kills your chances when ordering on-line yourself, versus visiting a license vendor, is that you have to "specify a delivery method", and that adds several minutes of "spinning wheel delay" to the whole process. Just enough time for a license vendor terminal somewhere to beat you through checkout. Plus they can swipe your card or mark as a cash sale, saving more time.
53 minutes, then I want to submit payment, and it told me the quota is already sold out. What a messed up system. Every year this happens, but they never try to fix it. Government agency. Imagine if they ran a single-payer health care system???
I pretty much despise cpw at this point for complete and total licensing failure year after year after year. Online crashes so I run down to the store, had only 11 people in front of me, but of coarse one of them bought a freaking list of tags and took forever, missed my tag by less than 5 minutes. Coarse, If the pos online system didn’t crash instantly, I wouldn’t have been in that situation and may have had a fighting chance... CPW if your listening, get your sh*t together once and for all!!!
Don't bother camping at the CPW office. They did a random drawing for who got to be the first in line. My guess is the folks that got one of the thousands of tags sold this morning are singing a completely different tune. Supply and demand I guess is what it comes down to. Still wish the system wouldn't crash. Wonder if they have a single server system cause it would be easy to daisy chain a bunch of them together to avoid the crash. Either way the tags I got are still available as they had hundreds of tags available per species. Crazy how the list went from 39 pages to 14 in an hour, TONS of tags got sold this morning.
I had to click 6 different times on if I wanted to pick up or have the tag mailed to me. Kept getting an error but finally went through. I got one of only a handful of tags. I got pretty lucky. Took forever to get through the Hunter Safety card portion. Might help to get that verified for next year.
Isnt the system run by a private contractor? Might want to blame the private sector some too and not lay it all the government. Having said that, it was still a frustrating process.
I wish they would just offer the returned/unpaid tags to people who were in the initial draw (for all point levels) up to season opening date. Make that an option for if unsuccessful. Rank all applicants at the initial draw. As tags are returned or unpaid give he next in line 24 hours to accept and pay or go to next. And you give up your points just like normal.
Now it’s time for u that got tags to come in here and say I’m so thankful for the opportunity at great tags blah blah blah!!! Save it! System sux. Should go to next in line in the original draw. Period.
Second year in a row I completely pi$$ed in the wind. Got in, selected tag, put it in cart then it froze for 15 minutes. Called state park right around corner they said they had no one in line Zoom over there and by then the tags I wanted were gone. Grrrr
I did my research and applied in April and got the tags I wanted.
I remember 20 years camping out at the DOW and getting line... seems like history always repeats itself. No way-- ever again will I participate in the leftover fiasco
I managed to get the tag I didn’t draw in June. System is definitely messed up. I was sitting in the same room with someone who had his tag in the cart and proceeding to checkout when it kicked me back to the very beginning. I ended up with a tag and he didn’t.
I've been on the end of 3 knuckleheads in front of me, or the Walmart agent that had no clue, and came up with an empty sack more than once. I know the feeling. Today was different.
You guys who think going to a license vendor is t solution are forgetting how long you have to wait in line. Even if you are first in line you are at the mercy of an operator who knows nothing about the system and doesn't care.
Better to be in front of your own computer and get the process going immedistely. What I don't understand is why did I get through without a glitch other than the amount of time watching the little circle spin (38 minutes). And others experienced crashes?
I was unable to even get to the hunt code entry page. Proof of residency page was as far as I could get. I tried for 45 minutes. I would type in birthday, click enter, watch spin and be brought back to home page. It was a disgrace. Years past I've been in line at 4:00am, but even that didn't work because 3 or 4 people ahead of me would have a driver's licence number for everyone they knew and left the CPW building with hands full of tags. I hate "leftover day".
I got the tag I would've NEVER drawn in April! What a win win ! I was just gonna get a point & not even hunt CO this year. Boy that changed real quick!
It's the same every year and we all bitch about it. Just simply more competition on the taxed system and no upgrades to deal with what they knew was going to happen. Continued incompetence at the P&W. Same problem and they seem to come up with an even dumber solution...that's government for you! Wonder how much more money the P&W made this years since non-residents had a shot grabbing tags online. Lets face, the P&W won't change anything and they still whine about budgets. And they say less people are hunting now...yea right. It's all a ruse to get sympathy from law makers to raise fees and it's worked. Bob Broached took over P&W in 2013 and the service has only gotten worse. They need a business man or woman running the show not someone who has never created a solution and worked in government their whole life.
I don't feel entitled, just want the same chance as other guys. It took me 40 minutes to find out that the tag I wanted already sold. No big surprise.
It is not like this was a first run. They had time to set it up right so we don't have this kind of problem. I guess the CPW figures the tags get sold, so why worry about it.
It's not "crying" John, it's a system that's clearly broken and they do nothing to address it and have doubled the cost of licenses in the process. What service are we really getting for the 100% cost increase we now have to pay?
Well maybe if you guys bitch enough they’ll just quit putting them back and do like they did 3 years ago and the leftover was truly a leftover.
The reality is there are more people wanting tags than tags available. Some people are going to be disappointed. Blowing up cpw emails isn’t going to get you your tag, but it will make you look like a big baby.
I got in line at 745. I wasn’t first in line, 3rd actually. The license agency (Walmart) said they are no longer wired into the system, it’s all wireless too. Anyway, I played the online game on my phone at 9am as I waited for my turn. The guy that was first in line sat there like the rest of us as the license agent tried to get through. The employee kept saying “it’s just spinning.” I got through after 10 minutes and got a tag (1000+ available B list). The guy in first was still waiting for the license agents computer to stop spinning when I left. I’m not sure when he got there to get in line, but he wasn’t happy.
That will never happen they make too much money selling a tag two or three times. Maybe they can fix a system that crashes every single year. Or the cheaper alternative would be just stagger the species so do Elk on Tuesday, Deer on Wednesday, etc.
Why is it broken? There are 10-100 people trying to get every tag. It didn’t crash. When 1000 people put the same tag in their cart at the same time something has to give. All the tags got sold, 1-10% of the people got them and the other 90-99% are upset.
Sounds like it worked fine. All the tags sold out in a couple hours.
Fine then make it like Wyoming where the first person that gets the tag in their cart has 10 minutes to complete the transaction. I don't care what CPW says the site was down thousands of people got 500 errors that the site had too much traffic.
I don't know what technically qualifies as a "crash" but when it doesn't work as intended, results in error messages and its nonfunctional for users, thats close enough.
Like many, I expected it so it was no surprise but that doesn't mean its acceptable. It was predictable and avoidable by the CPW. Customer service is hard enough without creating issues.
Ok, so it didn't "crash" but the process is still not acceptable. Why? Because it took over 40 minutes of watching the circle spin for me just to get to the screen where I entered the code to see if the tag was still available. That is fixable
No matter the excuses UCs comes up with, CPW knows damn well their system cannot handle the traffic it got yesterday. So they either need to upgrade it or stagger the species to spread it out.
UC is right, So much whining. So let's say the site did work swimmingly and you were all able to log on smoothly just to find out even quicker that someone else got your tag. Still mad? Are you sad that you didn't get the tag or that you just didn't find out IMMEDIATELY that some one else got it. Seemed to work fine, plenty of tags were sold. p.s. I didn't get the tag I wanted either.
Calling out a b.s. system is not whining. I got two 61 bull tags before they implemented the 5 plus rule. Not to mention the site let you buy tags Monday night for an hour before it got alerted so again I got a good tag. So no reason whatsoever to whine. The system they use is still b.s. and can't handle the traffic they push towards it.
"So they either need to upgrade it or stagger the species to spread it out." Is your system designed for 1 day a year or the other 364?
"That is total BS letting one person buy tags for other folks. Fork CPW." I mostly agree with this statement, but I'm sure it happens online the same way.
"I wish they would just offer the returned/unpaid tags to people who were in the initial draw (for all point levels) up to season opening date. Make that an option for if unsuccessful. Rank all applicants at the initial draw. As tags are returned or unpaid give he next in line 24 hours to accept and pay or go to next. And you give up your points just like normal. Would burn more points and eliminate the frenzy." I like this idea, but can you foresee the cluster of going to the next guy and then dealing with the tags he did draw? The snowball affect would be massive IMO.
"So they either need to upgrade it or stagger the species to spread it out." Is your system designed for 1 day a year or the other 364? One week so Tuesday could have been elk, Wednesday deer, Thursday antelope, Friday bear and turkey. After that keep the list how it is. That way the one day free for all that crashes the system doesn't happen.
Orion most guys going for elk are also going for deer and antelope. You’d have the same 10,000 guys loading it at 9am. The only difference is CPW would have to hear the whining for 4 days instead of just one! Lol
I guess they better talk to amazon or any other website designed to handle huge amounts of traffic. I also found out that the license vendors run off of a different system and that theirs did not bog down or 500 internal sever error yesterday.
I' don't know why you couldn't solicit a bid from a ticket seller to be the vendor. Concert tickets go on sale everyday across the nation. They don't have problems when sales start at 9am, and mile high and other stadiums get sold out in minutes for Taylor Swift. You also get a time limit to buy after you add it to the cart.
When you have 100 people going after each tag, 99 are going to be disappointed. Just the way it is. It's worked for me in the past, the last two years it hasn't. I also agree it doesn't make sense for the DPW to spend money on a system that can handle that load for one day, that would be a waste.
One thing I'll say, this is regarding Orion's post above about some licenses mistakenly being sold on Monday night. That's ridiculous that the CDPW let that happen, and apparently is doing nothing about it. That's a blatant mistake and the DPW should cancel those transactions that took place, refund the money and put those licenses back on the list on the 14th. They should easily be able to figure out who bought what on Monday night.
I think point is if you don't have a system designed for a giant 9:00am demand once a year, don't set up an on line sale of a small supply of highly desirable products on a first come, first serve basis to happen all at once.
As grasshopper stated there are thousands of models of how to handle giant on line demand much bigger than this and a ton of history in what happens if you aren't prepared for it.
you got me on the amazon link uc I didn't know it crashed on prime day. The concert ticket sales is a good point they never seem to crash. I also agree they should adopt the Wyoming model where you get a certain amount of time to complete the transaction if you got the tag in your cart. As for the Monday night deal, well my buddy called me and told me. My best guess is that they were testing the system and opened it for a limited time when they thought nobody would be on it.
Agreed. While we are talking about fairness those of you who bought Monday should surrender your tags back to CPW. Gettting in line and not getting a tag, S happens, finding a loophole, exploiting it, telling everyone about it, then complaining about the system...smh...
Nah CPW reaps what they sow, I mean mailing multiple tags to the same people, charging 3 dollars for app fees when your vendor is charging you 4.25, and opening the flood gates of applicants with getting rid of fronting the money, I'll keep the elk tag.
It is a slippery slope. Ryan, I was not pointing a finger or judging. Please do not take my comment as anything but a general statement not directed at anyone. I know you have, like I, participated in these forums for a LONG time.
I have no idea if this pre-leftover license sale situation occurred or not. I presume it must have from what has been posted. If I was online and saw the tags available before they were supposed to be available to the public, I would question it knowing it was not available to everyone and that it was not in line with the official announcement to the public. I would call someone, if possible, and ask. Otherwise.....it is so tempting to buy that tag I wanted so badly knowing my chances the next day were crap. But that does not make it right for me personally to take that advantage denied to the public.
If it did happen, I have serious concerns about how it happened and if someone at CPW let anyone outside CPW know so they could take advantage. That would be a serious breach of ethics on the part of the CPW employee. That would be an immediate termination situation most likely. Working for a governmental entity, I can assure you it would be a serious ethical violation. And a really stupid thing to do in general. Again, I do not know if that happened or what happened.
As to anyone who participated NOT knowing it was a mistake or error, I think that is a valid point. It is hard to imagine a scenario where someone would not be aware and understand the situation was and error if they knew anything about the leftover license process in CO. I think if I was in that position I would have to call and ask CPW for guidance and accept what was given. I would not sleep well at night otherwise knowing 1) I would likely get a call from CPW asking about my purchase and timing, and 2) that I gained an advantage outside the rules applied to everyone else.
Everyone decides right and wrong for themselves in those situations where it is not crystal clear. Personally I think hard about it before heading off down the slippery slope of rationalization. But that is my business and profession.
To directly answer your question, I have found items incorrectly marked based upon the price tags of the identical item and taken it up front to ask. Often I have been allowed to buy the item for the incorrectly marked price and thanked for bringing it to their attention. Basic loss prevention policy supports and encourages this behavior and treatment for most retail stores. I do not think that is an apples to apples comparison to what has been described as occurring with the leftover licenses. But I have no direct knowledge of anything happening.
If something like what is described occurred, I hope the CBA makes a point of demanding CPW investigate and address it. As a CBA member I am asking that they do something to address this situation with CPW. Government service is about serving the customer, the citizens who pay the taxes. If the citizens cannot trust the government to do so in a manner that treats all citizens equally.....the whole system fails. It is a basic tenent of government service that you cannot use your official position to prefer a friend, neighbor, or family member over anyone else. I do not know if that happened but as described it certainly is suspect.
Down off my soapbox now. My wife asked if I was writing a book...I guess I did.
Orion I wouldn’t give it back! Are you crazy! Haha. That being said it just came across hypocritical to complain about how they did things and the fairness of it all. Like Jordan, im not trying to be confrontational or an ass, just think it’s one of those things we all know what we’re getting into when we go through the leftovers. I hope all the Colorado residents get a big one, and all the NR subsidize our hunting with their 616 dollar tags! Cheers!!!
The IT guys from IPAWS start at the 2:35 mark. Them saying we couldn't simulate every aspect of the process prior to the sale day. But they got it figured out now!
I like the current system, got a chance at something that before never existed in the past. Hate random draws, keeps the draw from being loaded with the "non-hunting" family and friends. I like this much better, more effort more reward, you want to camp in front of CPW office for two days ,great you earned it, want to burn a day and camp on the puter all day, great again you earned it.
Not sure what you think you got a shot at that didn’t exist before... Colorado has never had a random draw, and nothing has changed in regards to who is elidgeable and awarded what tags through the draw and leftover...
What has changed is the massive amount of additional apps, killing the odds for everyone applying, more so for low preference point or 2nd choice units, and trophy species.
The specific discussion of this thread is in regards the continuous technological failure of the online licensing system, particularly on leftover morning, as where many people had zero chance of buying anything...
Digglers link exemplified the fact that there was a failure, on behalf of the contacted company responsible for operating the licensing system on leftover day, and that it undeniably had an effect on how level the playing field was for everyone hoping to grab a tag. I did appreciate the clear displeasure amoungst the Comission towards their contractor, and their explanation or should I say, excuse, of why things failed... though I will not be holding my breath that the problems won’t continue in the future in some shape or form..
Elkmeat you are not correct. Tags that require points to draw are now made available on the reissue list for no points so yes, there is new opportunity. For the diligent willing to watch the leftover list like a hawk.
As of last year, tags that took more than 5 points, that didn’t get claimed by any of the next 5 elidgeable people from that years draw, then went onto the leftover list. Tags that took less than 5 pp, automatically went onto the leftover list randomly. Any license that ended up on the leftover list required NO usage of preference points...just like before. Many licenses were on the list this year that typically would not, but that is a direct result of the new “pay-later” system cpw implemented this year, and its inherent flaws. Which is in my opinion in not an “opportunity” given by design, rather by flaw. In any case, getting a license off the leftover list at no point expense is no different than last year.
I’ll add, this whole snafu with the leftover sale the last 4-5-6 years kinda cracks me up when I stop to think about it... I remember standing out in the dark with my dad, 20 something years ago in line at our DOW office to get a leftover, it was pretty much a locals only game at that time, you had to be there in person to get one...I wouldnt mind going back that way one bit... no online system to crash, no phone tree backed up an hour or more, just locals waiting In line with their coffee to get a leftover that was filled out by hand and stuck to the back of their conservation certificate. ...lol, I did stand in line this year and there were only 11 people in front of me...all the while getting a 500 server error on my phone and watching some guy at the front of the line go though a list of 20 licenses to be punched in that he wanted to buy over the course of 30 minutes while everything decent sold out... How the times have changed.
The only 5 point plus tags that get offered to the next 5 draw people in line are sheep, goat and moose. It could be a 18 point elk tag that's returned and no one is called. It goes straight to the leftover list for anyone to pick up using no points.
In regards to the online system failing, it did not. It never failed but rather ran really slow as a result of the amount of traffic on the server. The CPW will never pay an online contractor the amount of money that it would take to handle the volume of traffic for one day a year. The cost would be astronomical plus the tags are going to sell out anyway.
I like your idea of having to be there in person to get the leftover tags like it used to be but that's unfortunately a thing of the past. I'll bet $10,000 that next year 95% of the people trying to buy premium leftover tags will say the online system failed or crashed. Same as it ever was.
Quinn, sheep, goat,moose and RFW tags get offered to next in line. Any tag worth over 5 points gets offered to next 5 in line before it goes on the list (including elk, deer, bear, pronghorn) If someone is next in line and they accept the tag, they lose their points. If nobody accepts it, then it goes on the list and can be purchased and not use any points. An 18 point elk tag will not be put straight to the list
I just wanted to point out to the guys here that are trying to say that it’s a “new opportunity” that tags off the leftover don’t require usage points, in fact is NOT anything new and that has been my point, I’m not sure why im “wrong” when that policy simply is no different than before regarding pp’s and tags on the leftover list. Straight from their literature, past and present.
Quinn, on CPW’s website, on the return and reissue page, it is stated, “any deer, elk, pronghorn and bear hunt codes that took 5 or more pp’s to draw, in current years draw, will be reissued to the next person in the draw order” ...if None of those people accept the license at usage of points (same as before) it is then reissued on the leftover list and is up for grabs by anyone at no cost of points. Same as last year.
Cpw contractor said there was indeed an error, that didn’t allow access to the system one iota for some people for a period of time, as a result, the system did not perform as designed. By their own admission, it failed to function as intended. If your truck is running on 4 cylinders instead of 8 like it’s supposed to is that a “failure” of it operating correctly or is that just running really “sloow”... call what happened whatever you want, I call it a failure and the contractor pretty much did too.
Anyhow, good luck, time to go try and fill these tags that we waded through the bs to get. Happy hunting!
Elkmeat don't worry about Quinn his reading comprehension seems to be lacking. It clearly states in the proclamation that any tag for any species that takes 5 or more resident points goes to the next in line, if it is denied then it goes on the list. The online system did fail it could not handle the amount of traffic they knew they would get. If something doesn't perform when it is needed that is a failure.
dang 4 muzzy 76 bull tags on Friday the 7th, then this morning a unit 10 muzzy bull tag. Great tag even if the season has already started. I do find it odd with the 30 day rule that CPW cant get these tags out before the season starts.
