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New Michigan regulations
Michigan
Contributors to this thread:
Stickbow Felty 10-Aug-18
buckhammer 10-Aug-18
Bows the way 10-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 11-Aug-18
happygolucky 11-Aug-18
Bows the way 11-Aug-18
JL 11-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 12-Aug-18
BIG BEAR 12-Aug-18
JL 12-Aug-18
Bows the way 12-Aug-18
BIG BEAR 12-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 12-Aug-18
BIG BEAR 12-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 12-Aug-18
Bows the way 12-Aug-18
Bows the way 12-Aug-18
BIG BEAR 13-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 13-Aug-18
Keith 13-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 13-Aug-18
JL 13-Aug-18
JL 14-Aug-18
Bows the way 14-Aug-18
Annony Mouse 14-Aug-18
JL 14-Aug-18
BIG BEAR 15-Aug-18
JL 15-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 17-Aug-18
Annony Mouse 17-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 17-Aug-18
Bows the way 18-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 18-Aug-18
Bows the way 18-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 18-Aug-18
Bows the way 18-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 18-Aug-18
Bows the way 18-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 18-Aug-18
JL 18-Aug-18
Annony Mouse 19-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 19-Aug-18
Annony Mouse 20-Aug-18
Missouribreaks 20-Aug-18
Annony Mouse 03-Sep-18
JL 07-Sep-18
ground hunter 07-Sep-18
10-Aug-18
The approved deer hunting regulations, which will be in effect for the 2018 deer seasons unless noted otherwise, include:

Reduced the 4-point on-a-side antler requirement on the restricted tag of the combination license in the 16-county CWD Management Zone. Under the new regulation, a hunter in the CWD Management Zone can use the restricted tag of the combination license to harvest a buck with antlers as long as it has at least one 3-inch antler. Created a discounted antlerless license opportunity in the CWD Management Zone on private land; if purchased, the license will expire Nov. 4, 2018. Effective immediately, a statewide ban on the use of all natural cervid urine-based lures and attractants, except for lures that are approved by the Archery Trade Association. An immediate ban on baiting and feeding in the 16-county area identified as the CWD Management Zone. This area includes Calhoun, Clinton, Eaton, Gratiot, Hillsdale, Ingham, Ionia, Isabella, Jackson, Kent, Mecosta, Montcalm, Muskegon, Newaygo, Ottawa and Shiawassee counties. A ban on baiting and feeding in the Lower Peninsula, effective Jan. 31, 2019, with an exception to this ban for hunters with disabilities who meet specific requirements. The start date on this regulation is intended to allow bait producers and retailers time to adjust to the new rule. Effective immediately in the CWD Management Zone and four-county bovine tuberculosis area (in Alcona, Alpena, Montmorency and Oscoda counties), hunters with disabilities who meet specific requirements can now use 2 gallons of single-bite bait, such as shelled corn, during the Liberty and Independence hunts. Allowance of all legal firearms to be used in muzzleloader season in the CWD Management Zone. A purchase limit of 10 private-land antlerless licenses per hunter in the CWD Management Zone. Restrictions on deer carcass movement in the five-county CWD Core Area (Ionia, Kent, Mecosta, Montcalm and Newaygo counties) and the CWD Management Zone. Antlerless options on deer licenses/combo licenses during firearms seasons in the five-county CWD Core Area. Expansion of early and late antlerless seasons in select counties. Changes to regulations regarding wildlife rehabilitators. In addition, the commission asked the DNR to move forward with:

An experimental mandatory antler point restriction regulation in a five-county CWD Core Area, including Ionia, Kent, Mecosta, Montcalm and Newaygo counties. The restriction would begin in 2019, provided a survey of hunters shows support for the requirement and specific department guidelines are met. This is intended as a tool to evaluate the effects of antler point restrictions on the spread and prevalence of CWD, along with deer population reduction. A hunter-submitted proposal for mandatory antler point restrictions in Huron, Tuscola, Sanilac, St. Clair and Lapeer counties. If hunter surveys support this regulation and specific department guidelines are met, it would be implemented in 2019.

From: buckhammer
10-Aug-18
The deer hunting in this state has become depressing. There is no management plan other than to kill them all and there are just enough fools in the hunting community to buy in to what the DNR is peddling to make it happen.

From: Bows the way
10-Aug-18
God i hope this doesnt go into the UP but I just pulled cards and damn literally 25 to 1 does to bucks multiple does at different cameras at the same time(with in a few minutes)with twin fawns ugh and still no doe tags.

11-Aug-18
There are too many deer in many portions of Michigan, should increase the doe harvest for sure. From known CWD areas, be responsible and do not feed untested deer to unsuspecting consumers, such as children and friends.

From: happygolucky
11-Aug-18
The same slaughter technique WI tried is happening in the CWD areas in MI now. Just wait until they issue Earn a Buck where you have to kill a doe before you can kill a buck. I feel bad for the people who hunt in the CWD areas.

I wish MI would allow the combo tags to be used with does in the UP again. I know BIG BEAR has really pushed for this. We have too many does on our land too.

From: Bows the way
11-Aug-18
I'd be happy with one and one Happy. Our food plots are helping our does look really good and so do the fawns.

From: JL
11-Aug-18
Some disappointing regs. The "experimental" MAPR in the 5 county CWD core area has already been shown to have a negative impact on disease mitigation thru yearling dispersal in other areas. This is just retrying someone else's failure. IMO....the NRC/DNR is gambling big time here with the resource. If (when) it fails the impact is long lasting. I hope the 5 counties vote against this....or someone files a lawsuit to stop it.

The bait ban is fine in the CWD areas but not banning bait plots too is mind boggling. IMO I don't see a difference between placing bait and growing bait. In fact I would suggest bait plots have a more dire effect because they are around longer allowing deer to congregate for longer periods of time. The prions will have a long time to be spread thru the whole bait plot. The bait ban for all of the LP doesn't make sense. One concern I have is instead of public land folks sitting still at their blinds or tree stands they now maybe more inclined to do deer drives pushing the deer. IMO that is not good for the public land folks who prefer blind/stand hunting.

I can only speak for the areas I hunt around TVC but public land hunting (buck-wise) is horrible. A few small bucks and not many bigger ones. You'll see the occasional nice one on cam but they are the exception and not the rule. The hunting pressure the first week of the firearms opener is horrendous. IMO there are way too many hunters in the woods at once. Quite a few state land campers coming up nowadays. I would like to see (and have suggested to the NRC/DNR) to split the firearms season into two draw seasons to spread the hunters out. We all know...or should know, the majority of deer are killed the first week of the season. I believe if the hunters are spread out, more deer should survive and the hunting experience would be better for the hunters.

The private land I hunt on SE of Cadillac has some decent bucks on it. Quite honestly...and somewhat hypocritically, when baiting is banned, we'll probably keep running bait plots. This will have a negative impact on the nearby public land hunters who can't bait. In fact, I feel the NRC/DNR creates regs (MAPR's, bait ban, etc) that hurt the public land hunter and are biased towards the private land hunter.

12-Aug-18
I agree, banning baiting mostly negatively impacts the experience of the public land hunter,... and is a positive for those who hunt private managed lands. It is largely the private land managers and hunters who are against baiting, makes their private land management of cover and food sources very successful.

From: BIG BEAR
12-Aug-18
No baiting or feeding at all in the lower next year....... As soon as they find a CWD deer in the yoop it will be statewide and the slaughter will begin...... Does will no longer be protected....... And the DNR will start the eradication process.....

From: JL
12-Aug-18
BB....any CWD that makes it's way to the Yoop "could" come from the Wisconsin side. Will need to watch how it moves on that side....anything north isn't good for the Yoop.

From: Bows the way
12-Aug-18
The slaughter method won't work. Has this ever worked anywhere. It didn't work in the TB zone guess what according to the DNR its still present imagine that. Mother nature does a better good eradicating deer in the winter in yoop then firearm season ever could.

From: BIG BEAR
12-Aug-18
Yep John..... from Wisconsin.... They just recently started testing for it heavily in the U.P.,,, I’ll bet it’s just a matter of time before they find it up there......

12-Aug-18
How does anyone know the slaughter method does not reduce transmission? Do you expect to test more animals, and find less?

From: BIG BEAR
12-Aug-18
We’re going to find out. That’s the method the DNR is going to use in the CWD zone.

12-Aug-18
I hope there is progress, we have it too in Montana.

From: Bows the way
12-Aug-18
The DNR tired the slaughter meathod in the TB zone and its still there. Thats been ongoing since 2000 I could be wrong on the year.

From: Bows the way
12-Aug-18
My question is how do they expect to stop the baiting in the lower peninsula. Does anyone beleive for a minute that people will stop buying corn. One CO per county good luck. But the I read this food plots are ok on private land.

From: BIG BEAR
13-Aug-18
They outlawed baiting before..... A lot of illegal baiting occurred.....

13-Aug-18
In reality, outlawing 2 gallons of bait on public and marginal private land may only serve to concentrate deer on attractive private lands. I think temporary multiple scattered two gallon piles may actually keep deer somewhat dispersed. Maybe, maybe not.

From: Keith
13-Aug-18
CWD is in Wisconsin just 15 miles from the border. But it's ok, there are signs on the highway to keep the UP CWD free!

I don't understand the MPR test. Doesn't it make sense that the longer a deer lives the more likely he will contract a disease? And the longer he will spread a disease? Is it a coincidence that CWD has come about after MPR's came into vogue?

13-Aug-18
Yes, MPR's in the face of CWD is really stupid. Cannot make this stuff up.

From: JL
13-Aug-18

JL's Link
APR's protect young bucks. If a young buck becomes infected, he will take the disease with him when he disperses from the family group and carry it to new areas. As I said above....it is a very risky and unnecessary gamble the NRC/DNR is taking. Jim Sweeney of the Concerned Sportsman Of Michigan has compiled alot of scientific evidence showing this. It's on his website.

From: JL
14-Aug-18
Just got this in an email......is this old news or something that hasn't hit the news wires yet?

"" Don't know if you heard, 2 more positives found in Montcalm Co. from summer crop damage permits, 1 was a yearling buck and the other was a 2.5 year old doe. ""

EDIT: I just got word it was announced last Thursday but there may not be any press releases on it.

From: Bows the way
14-Aug-18
Just keeps getting better.

From: Annony Mouse
14-Aug-18
Obviously this came from the "Paint Trees white Because they don't move" department:

"...a statewide ban on the use of all natural cervid urine-based lures and attractants, except for lures that are approved by the Archery Trade Association..."

There is no test to determine if a farmed deer (source of pee lures) has CWD. The live tonsular assay only can determine that the CWD prions are below a detectable level. So, we have a commercial oriented group approving the use of specific sponsor lures? I guess a big donation to ATA will allow any cervid farmer to sell his pee as "safe". Like the introduction of the crossbow into the general archery season, money talks.

From: JL
14-Aug-18
Interesting point about the ATA. I never thought of that until now. I don't see the deer urine an issue as long as the supplier's herd is compliant with the USDA-APHIS standards. That is why I think it's a feel good reg.

From: BIG BEAR
15-Aug-18
Maybe the only lures they plan on approving are synthetic lures....??

From: JL
15-Aug-18

JL's Link
Ok....I did a little research on this deer pee issue. If a supplier "voluntarily" joins the ATA and follows their rules, the ATA will put the ATA logo on the bottle of deer pee signifying the deer pee came from a deer farm that is enrolled in a CWD monitoring program. I know some big name suppliers were doing this before the ATA came around as I called them and asked. Code Blue was one of them. Below is from the ATA website.

Who's Taking Action?

SUPPORT the Deer Protection Program and HELP stop the spread of CWD by purchasingscents labeled with the official ATA Seal of Participation. Only scents marked withthe Seal are from manufacturers that have taken the initiative to be part of thisProgram and abide by its requirements.

Participating Manufacturers

Altus Brands

Black Widow Deer Lures

Buck Baits

Buck Bomb

Code Blue

Conquest Scents

Doc’s Deer Scents

Hunter's Edge

Hunter’s Specialities

Jackies Deer Lures LLC

James Valley Scents

LockDown Outdoors

Martine's Deer Scents

Mrs. Doe Pee Buck Lures

Nationwide Scents

Nexus Outdoors

Pure Whitetail

Tink's

Wild Carrot Scents

Wildgame Innovations

Wildlife Research Center

Wyndscent

17-Aug-18
I cannot imagine how they will get hunters to kill enough animals in the central Michigan CWD regions. There are tons of deer, most on private land, and more and more people (perhaps rightfully so) will not eat venison, tested or untested. Reducing numbers of deer will not of course eliminate all cases, but it may slow the spread. This is only the beginning, will get much worse before it ever improves.

From: Annony Mouse
17-Aug-18
There is NO test for detecting CWD in a live deer or certifying that it is CWD free. The tonsular assay only determines if the CWD prion is below the detectable level at the time of testing. Thus, the ATA certification of deer pee is akin to how the crossbow was introduced into archery season: money talks.

CWD prions, once introduced into the environment, will remain and not be degraded over time by natural causes (sunshine, rain, snow, cold, etc.). This has been well proven with scrapie positive sheep (a related prionic disease) where land was left fallow, topsoil removed and chemically treated...negative scrapie sheep were reintroduced to land and scrapie reappeared in that flock.

17-Aug-18
I will consume tested venison myself, but I sure would not feed it to my family, especially children, or anyone else who does not fully comprehend what they are eating and the potential hazards.

From: Bows the way
18-Aug-18
I was under the impression CWD can't transfer to humans hence theres never been a reportable case in people. If thats the case why be concerned with testing. If you saw what some beef cattle looked like prior to slaughter you might not eat beef.

18-Aug-18
Why risk it with those unsuspecting when there are plenty of cheap food alternatives? There is a reason there is so much concern and dollars being spent on CWD.

From: Bows the way
18-Aug-18
Because it would effect the millions of dollers hunting provides to state in revenue. If your concerned about eating it hunt else where properly cook no transmission to humans no worry. Im just curious they've found what 55-60 deer total somewhere in there. How many deer where killed between all those counties.

18-Aug-18
Interesting....are you stating that proper cooking denatures prions?

From: Bows the way
18-Aug-18
Im saying theres never been one case reported in a human from eating a CWD deer. Cooking properly is just a suggestion. Im more intrested in the millons of dollars this will cost Michigan. When you had the cost Michigan as incurred, and what they may loose in the future between licenses , outfitters, and taxes revenue.

18-Aug-18
I understand the revenue loss, but to me that is not a reason to ignore potential health concerns. By the way, normal meat cooking temperatures had no effect on BSE, another prion disease. Temperatures in excess of 850 degrees may be required.

From: Bows the way
18-Aug-18
Personally choice i guess. I personally wouldn't worry about hunting in that area but then again i have been for 5 years. Well i guess actually just south of there until this year. Yeah i saw the BSE study online. If your concerned about the public health what would your recommendation be shoot every deer in the area and destroy the carcass. There was a really neat study published about Scarpie in sheep which is a prion. They completely distroyed the herd brought in a new herd and they developed Scarpie because the prion was in the ground, man can not crontrol mother nature.

18-Aug-18
I do not have a solution and do not believe there is one at this time. It does not change the fact that eating venison MAY be risky to one's health and consumers should therefore make informed decisions. Children are not always able to make wise choices and rely on adults to guide them. I would not feed children or adults meat which may be infected with CWD, BSE, Scrapie, or any other prion disease.

I agree with many game managers that herd reduction, sometimes drastic, is wise in the face of known disease transmissions and potential outbreaks.

From: JL
18-Aug-18

JL's Link
From the CDC in March.

From: Annony Mouse
19-Aug-18
I've been a student of prion disease for many years and have written a number of posts on the subject. Probably easily found with a search. Much of what I have learned has come from several researchers in the field and their published papers.

Prion diseases (Scrapie, BSE, CWD, CJD, vCJD, etc) are neurological diseases caused by an abnormal prion that causes proteins to mis-fold leading to the symptoms seen. The only way to identify that there is a prion caused disease is through immunostaining of brain tissue...something that cannot be done on a live animal.

Prions are not denatured or destroyed by the environment (sun, cold, rain, snow, etc.), nor are they destroyed by cooking.

The testing done to check the presence of CWD in live cervids can only tell if an animal's level of prions (or not) is below the level of the assay's sensitivity. A negative test does not mean that the animal is free from CWD, only that the level of prions is below the sensitivity of the assay. When harvested deer are tested, any positive tests seen are then sent to Ames lab for verification by immuno-staining.

When it comes to cross species transfer, it had long been held that there is a specie specific barrier. However, this no longer can be held due to the outbreak of BSE (mad cow) seen in Great Britain where downer cattle which suffered from BSE entered the food chain. One factor in transmission there may be linked to dietary differences in the British diet where parts of a cow are more likely part of the diet (blood sausage, marrow, brains). Recent research with laboratory primates have also called into question cross specie transmission.

Transmission of CWD to other species for study is rather routine and urine, saliva, feces have been shown to pass the abnormal prions. Laboratories have the ability to use much more sensitive assays to demonstrate the presence of prions. These assays are specialized, time consuming and not cost effective for any screening.

As far as transmission to humans, the canned warning that CWD has not been seen as transferred t humans does not take into consideration a number of factors. Symptoms (especially early symptoms) of prion disease can be seen in other neurological diseases. Diagnosis is based upon a physician's diagnostic experience and training. MS, Alzheimers, dementia, etc. share a number of similar symptoms.

One of my first jobs was acting as a deiner at autopsies (assistant). Today, autopsies are rare unless there is a medico-legal aspect, suspected crime or institutional inquiry paid by research funds. Ergo, it is rare that a potential CWD death would be identified.

With the presence of CWD in our deer herd, an obviously sick deer should never be eaten. However, a healthy deer can be eaten with minimal fear if certain precautions are taken. Understanding the progression of CWD gives guidance. The abnormal prions begin infection via the gut. They then progress through the lymphatic system and enter the spinal cord. When the brain becomes infected, signs of the disease begin.

Wear gloves.

First, filet/bone out a deer and do not expose the meat to the bone marrow. Then avoid the heavily lympatic organs such as liver and spleen. In separating the muscles while processing, cut away the exposed lymphatics. Never eat the brain.

There is much evidence from BSE in Great Britain that development in humans is dose dependent. Therefore, it is probably wise to wait till one hears from the state as to testing done on deer where heads are collected before consuming.

The ATA certification of urine based scent lures does nothing about the prevention or spread of CWD. Those lure providers are just paying money so that their products can still be promoted and sold. If one really really depends on them to hunt, it might be wise to carry a large syringe and bottle and harvest your own...odds are that there is less chance of spreading CWD than using a farmed commercial urine.

19-Aug-18
Excellent post , thank you. Hopefully all hunters know how to avoid the lymphatics,...but I bet many lymph nodes are ground and fed to children and family members as meat sticks and burger.

From: Annony Mouse
20-Aug-18
From ProMed today:

CHRONIC WASTING DISEASE, CERVID - USA (12): (MN) RESEARCH ********************************************************* A ProMED-mail post ProMED-mail is a program of the International Society for Infectious Diseases

Date: Thu 16 Aug 2018 Source: MPR News [edited]

Back in March [2018], field biologists caught and collared 109 deer. They've been tracking them ever since, trying to get a sense of where and how quickly chronic wasting disease [CWD] could spread.

The findings are still preliminary at this point, but so far, head researcher Christopher Jennelle said slowing the spread of the disease might be more complicated than biologists thought. "One of our female animals has traveled approximately 80 miles [about 129 km]," he said. "That really blew our minds."

Since the fall of 2016, 17 cases of chronic wasting disease have been found in the wild deer population of southeastern Minnesota. There's no cure and no vaccine, although teams of scientists are working on it. Right now, CWD is 100 percent fatal.

The disease has spread rapidly in other states. In parts of Wisconsin, an estimated 40-50 percent of deer are infected. And that happened in a very short time. In 1999, the 1st year the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources began monitoring the disease, just 3 animals tested positive. By 2017, that number had climbed to 600. [The question here is how many were tested and over what range of distance. It is not stated, but likely this is hunter or road kills. - Mod.TG]

If the same thing happens in Minnesota's deer herds, the effects could be dramatic.

The point of this study is to understand how infected deer could potentially move on the landscape. "When deer reach the 1st year of life," Jennelle said, "they have to make a decision: whether they want to remain in their birth range, or if they want to disperse from it and establish a new adult range elsewhere."

He hoped that since southeastern Minnesota is such a lush habitat for deer, they wouldn't feel the need to spread out, thus isolating the disease in one, more easily managed location. But it doesn't seem to be the case. More young deer than expected choose to disperse, and they're dispersing farther. Jennelle brought up one young doe that walked all the way from Forestville State Park to Cannon Falls, at least 77 miles [about 124 km].

Most deer didn't go that far, but they did go farther than researchers hoped.

"What does that mean for CWD?" Jennelle said. "Well, it doesn't bode well. I'll put it that way."

Another surprise, he said, is which deer are traveling. Up until this point, efforts to slow the disease tended to focus on mature bucks, which are the most likely carriers of CWD.

"We totally expected our juvenile males to be our movers and shakers here," he said.

But in this study, does, on average, traveled twice as far as bucks. So if one is infected, it could spread the disease over a much larger range.

Jennelle pointed out that the sample sizes are still too small to draw sweeping conclusions. And there are a lot of things researchers still don't know about CWD. Infected deer might behave differently than the healthy ones in Jennelle's study. They could, he said, feel sick and run-down and decide to stay in their birth range.

The study will provide better data over the next few years.

20-Aug-18
Interesting read, thank you!

From: Annony Mouse
03-Sep-18

Annony Mouse's Link
ATA certification regulations look like another "pay-to-play" to keep commercial farmed cervid pee in the stores. There is NO TEST to identify that a deer is urinating CWD prion free pee. ATA regulations do not require the product to be tested.

At present, there are no assays to identify whether or not a deer is CWD positive without immunostaining brain tissue at the Ames lab. The ELIZA assay used to screen for the presence of CWD can only determine if a deer's prion level is BELOW the sensitivity of the test.

ATA certification of deer urine lures is a load of crap...lobbyists paying politicians.

From: JL
07-Sep-18
"" ATA certification of deer urine lures is a load of crap...lobbyists paying politicians. ""

Concur. I do think the cert is to say the supplier is following/running the deer farm IAW USDA/APHIS regs.

07-Sep-18
lets see, you can not take a deer, into MI, across the Brule River, unless it is boned out, to prevent cwd, but you can drive over the bridge, go hunt in a cwd area in the lower northern, and bring it back whole over the bridge..... huh,,,,, am I missing something....

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