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There is no way people are going to follow a baiting restriction in the UP. The UP hunters thrive on the golden kernel from what I've seen. I'm adding a 5th food plot next year. I need to increase the brassicas and hope my new apple trees grow at a faster rate. I don't see food plots ever being regulated but never say never.

BIG BEAR, I'm guessing you'll see your wish of being able to use a combo tag on does again. It might not be a necessary change though because chances are doe tags will be given out like candy at Halloween.

I wonder if combo tags will be a thing of the past due to stats I've seen that the older bucks have the higher rate of carrying CWD (from the states that have had it for years). Did the LP relax those rules in the CWD zones?

This is some pretty sad news for the UP. I just hope hunters use common sense and don't listen to the DNR verbatim. That slaughter approach did nothing in WI but upset hunters. The CWD rate continued to rise anyway as did the spread to other counties. I don't believe that bell can be unrung.

Of course you can put all the food plots you want, and plant a whole array of who knows what, for a kill plot.................

Remember when, the only crops, were those that existed for profit, and the woods were managed,, and we had well balanced deer herd,,,,, I miss those days

The scary part is that this is not a visible disease until the advanced stages - I’m more concerned that it will find a way to be passed onto humans ...

I saw only 2 guys out, and no one was hunting, and its getting to be prime time. I saw a lot of sign, for what the area is, and I realize, that the days of ribbons and lots of baits are gone, and so are most hunters...............

Deer are also on the move, more due to having to feed ................... However I saw over 30 deer on a guys food plot, that plot was sucking in a lot of deer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I prefer no baiting, but the food plots will really be a big draw,,,,,,,, should be something to see what they all come up with,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, just an observation

With the food plot industry in full swing, pretty hard to tell an old man, he can not put out some apples............................................

I agree, banning baiting concentrates deer on private lands, I have seen it first hand. The time to buy land and improve habitat is now, do your part.

I bought some really crappy dirt 4 years ago. It is mostly dense cedar swamp with few high spots. The price was right and it had a cabin. It was all I could afford. I wanted a spot for my son to hang his hat. He and my daughter can do what they want with it when I’m gone.

Since buying it, I’ve spend over $10k hiring an excavator, dozer, and skid steer with a fecon to create openings/clearings, improve the one existing trail that ran north/south through the land as well as create new trails. A friend of mine and I have cut literally hundreds and hundreds of cedars and black spruce down and my friend sold them for profit and made furniture. I’ve planted fruit trees and wildlife shrubs and will be doing lots more of that. I learned about food plotting and created 4 food plots with my biggest piece of machinery being an ATV. I have humped and spread tons of lime and fertilizer in 40/50# bags over the last 3 years. I turned around some terrible soil samples into damn good ones with time and money. My plots have attracted lots of deer and loads of other wildlife. I had turkeys last year and this year after none the 1st 2 years as well as bobcat, fisher, bear, fox, yotes, rabbits, woodcock, grouse, etc. I am hinge cutting where I can too. I just need lots more time and unfortunately live 3.5hrs from Esky.

I am looking at my time and money improving what I call The Dump at a macro level. I am enjoying seeing fawns and other animals in these plots all year, watching the fawns grow up. All the openings and edges have created better browse. Yes, the over-arching goal is to attract more deer and that too has worked. As for attracting or growing bigger bucks, not so much. Not yet anyway.

While food plots are legal and habitat work is legal, I will continue to do it. I feel the benefits outweigh the risks of CWD transmittal. Time will tell.

Like you said..... It takes time and money..... To turn ground into good deer habitat.... money that most guys don’t have to simply ensure good deer hunting........

For me it’s not just the money but the time. I am 6 hours from my 20 acres. I’m 3 years away from retirement where I’ll be able to invest more time in my property....

that popple has grown in so fast now, with sun, its amazing. I put in no food plots, but that is just me, I just hunt a more natural way.........

There is a difference from good land mgt, and putting in kill plots,,,,,,,, again its legal etc but I think deer hunting was better, when the only crops planted were by the farmers, and there was good land mgt, and deer had to move, and eat a more natural diet,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, just my opinion for what it is worth.....

Research has shown that the abnormal prions can be passed by nasal contact, urine and eating contaminated tissues. Normally thought to not spread between different species, the BSE problems in Great Britain proved that not to be the case. Recently, a man was reported to have died from prion disease due to eating brains of squirrels.

Safest practice for dealing with deer we hunt (and obviously not sick) is to avoid handling both neural and lymphatic tissues which are the route of infection. Prions enter the gut and then travel through the lymphatics into the neural column and up to the brain. It is best to debone/filet a deer rather than bandsawing through bone and marrow.

There is NO test available to determine if a live deer is negative. The screening assays on cervical lymph nodes of farmed deer only determine if an animal has prions above the detectable level of the assay used. There are some very sensitive assays, but they are lab/research only (technical and costly) tests not available for commercial testing. How the state can allow urine based scent lures to be used if certified by the ATA is beyond me because of this. Think the ATA is looking at the commercial aspect ($$$)like they did with crossbows in archery season.

This spread of CWD has links to farmed cervids...the selling, trading and moving of breeding stock across state and country lines. In many states, the arrival of CWD in wild herds has been near captive herds (especially the rise east of the Mississippi). Anyone who uses urine based lures risks spreading the disease.

Research has also shown that the abnormal prions can and do incorporate into plants, which means that they can enter the food chain of deer. When an area becomes infected, it will remain infected for ages. There was a research project done in Iceland with scrapie positive sheep. The sheep were removed from the farm and it was allowed to lie fallow for over a year, several inches of top soil was removed and the land chemically treated. Scrapie negative sheep were reintroduced and members of the herd became infected with scrapie. It is persistent and not inactivated by sun, rain, snow, etc.

This was also demonstrated in Great Britain where downer cattle were rendered into protein feed supplements and found to be a source of spreading BSE. That is why cattle rendered protein is no allowed to use to feed cattle. (However, it can be fed to other species whose offal can be rendered and used as cattle feed. Why this when the rendering process does not destroy the abnormal prions>!!)

As to how to deal with CWD? Seems radical to kill all deer in specific areas where CWD is found since that area will have been contaminated by CWD positive deer. And if all are removed, deer from other areas will come to fill the niche and be exposed. IMHO, the best way to deal with this is to harvest healthy deer as we have, but take care in processing to avoid contaminating the meat by cutting into marrow. Remove the biggest lymphatics off the meat and never exposing the brain tissue (bad news for brain tanners!) Obviously, elimination of baiting is a must because it artificially increases contact between groups*. Not sure about food plots...perhaps they should be regulated in size (bigger ones rather than small plots). And maybe mandatory check in of all deer harvested...which might have a plus as we would have a much better knowledge of our deer herd.

CWD certainly will affect how we hunt...perhaps putting more emphasis on "hunt" than harvest.

*Backyard scientist that I am, I have studied the deer in my area and by examining the stomach and gut and knowing what crops are grown around my home, I have come to some conclusions. It seems that does (especially) hang in family groups and circle about an 7-9 mile circle. A friend used to supply me with outdated Entenman products which I put out in my back acreage. He lived about 3 miles away and did the same. Deer love sweets...especially chocolate covered donuts. (I once put them under one pile of pizza crusts, coffee cakes, etc. and on top of another about 5-6feet away. The donuts were gone from the top pile and the one with buried donuts was torn apart to get them!) Anyhow, using the Entemans, soy, alfalfa, corn stomach contents, we were able to map their feeding journeys.

The latest positive CWD result posted on ProMed was in WY earlier this week.

On the flip side I'm lucky enough to be invited to hunt on just under 400 acres SE of Cadillac. Alot more deer and the bucks hanging around are consistently bigger. Lack of hunters and bait plots help. However I think that might change in the next year or two as the private land doe tags went up to 9000 for that county. I spoke to the bio and he said it was a proactive move to help thin the herd to stall/slowdown the CWD advancement. If CWD does continue to spread north....that will compound problems for everyone. Anywho....off the soapbox. I feel it's time to move on if we can.

This one is for Big Bear, still hunting yesterday, western Iron County, saw 20 does, all in good shape, but no tag of course. No bucks......

One thing I got from that show, and it was emphasized, that get rid of your carcass the right way, and that is, cut it up, bag it and get it to a land fill. MI DNR will even take your carcass, if you do not have garbage pick up or access to land fill..... They do not want carcass dumping in the woods or roads......

The biologist said, he hunts also 4 times a week, he sets his schedule to get in at least an hour of hunting a day, so we are all in this together. He did say, that if you do bait, move your baits around, and they talked about the success in ILL and NY and Wis problems which are the most serious in the country.....

His background was both private and now with the state. He said that within 30 years mule deer and white tails will not be on the landscape in SE WY. CWD is fatal, and their herd is 50 percent........

He said he is concerned for our kids and grandkids, MI wants to try and do it right

I can really see the potential for court cases if the DNR tries to dictate what legal plants/trees/shrubs can and cannot be grown.

but my apple trees in my cabin land, have deer nose to nose all the time, I see it outside my window, all the time

whats the difference if I put out 10 apples, near my stand........ just wonder who comes up with the rules......

I know a lot of guys going to court on their tags, from the Wardens. Again they all respect the wardens, they are doing their job, but they want to ask the courts, the difference between their apples and the tree?????

Happy you raise good points, but I see it coming down to this.....and at the same time, they want hunters to hunt, and deer herds reduced

Is it known whether a female infected with CWD will pass the disease on to her offspring in utero? How about through nursing?

KPC

I keep an open mind, I do believe it is a major issue

I realize there are guys who said its been here forever? Really how do you know? Was that terrible disease aids here forever? The point is its a real issue, for our future generations, and I hope they find answers

It's it my understanding that the disease is 100% fatal, so I was actually more curious about transmission than detection, and how it relates to the efforts being taken to decrease transmission.

KPC

Prions are excreted from an infected animal via urine, saliva, mucousal contact (and possibly in the womb--I have not seen any research addressing that issue). Infection can be further spread by contact with an infected animal's carcass(Deer have been seen in contact with dead deer and also scavengers can spread by contact and feeding). So CWD has many vectors. In fact, it has been shown that the CWD prions can incorporate into plant material.

As far as dealing with it, there is some evidence seen in sheep that there may be genes for resistance to prion disease. There are strains of sheep that are resistant to infection by the scrapie prion disease. If similar genetics exist in cervadae, then over time deer, elk, moose populations that can resist CWD may increase as those lacking contract CWD and die off.

It is known that these abnormal prions can cross the specie barrier from the experience in Great Britain and the mad cow epidemic. BSE infected cattle did enter the food chain and people died of vCJD due to exposure. The risk here may be less due to our dietary menu as such sources of infected material are not popular on our American menu: blood sausage, brains, and other organ meet with high lymphatics. It was shown that the BSE prion entered the food chain via downer cattle (BSE infected). Protein supplements made from them contained prions as they are not destroyed by most means (incineration does not allow the production of protein supplements) and enter the food chain via that route. Laboratory studies have shown that one factor in the passage of CWD may be a dose factor, i.e. that the levels of infected prions must reach a certain point before the disease begins to take hold.

Because prions are not destroyed in the production of protein feed supplements, beef protein is not allowed to be fed to cattle. (It can be used in chicken, hog, fish, etc. feed. Ironically, offal processed from those sources for supplement can be fed to cattle!)

Once the prions are released into the environment, they will remain there as neither heat, cold, rain, snow, sunlight inactivates them. Reasonably, our only response is to look at means of preventing and slowing the spread by identifying infected animals, incinerating their remains and eliminating the most likely means of artificial spreading of the disease ( urine based scent lures, baiting and strict regulations that prevent all farmed cervids from contact with wild animals, and strict regulations about the shipping and transport of breeding stock).

From my studies over the years, the link between farmed cervids and the spread of CWD is highly likely. CWD jumped the Mississippi River to eastern states where it had never been seen. High fence operations have long bought and sold animals that had genetics to produce trophy racks and for many years was little regulated. Other than trophy hunting, the only other sources of revenue from farmed deer was meat and urine for scent lures. Any hunter that has followed the CWD story and pours these products in areas to hunt is simply a fool who increases the chance of fouling his hunting grounds. There are no simple ultra sensitive tests available (other than in research labs) that can ID either an infected animal or prions in urine or nodes to certify a deer is uninfected. The assays for screening deer (deer products) only show negative to the sensitivity of the assay. The prions may be present at a level below that sensitivity.

Presently, in MI, we have seen no really "hot" spots of infection...a relatively few deer in areas that have had positive CWD confirmed animals. Interestingly, the first deer with CWD in MI were located near present and previous farmed cervids. The initial Ingham county deer was located near a no longer in operation or fenced farm that had captive elk. CWD is here and will be for the foreseeable future. Elimination of known vectors and having all deer checked should slow the progression and ensure that infected venison will not reach the table. Any noticeably ill deer should be brought to DNR attention so it can be removed from the herd.

Deer spend their lives nose to nose, nose to butts, nose to urine, nose to scrapes, nose to recurring natural food sources, and nose to whatever it is they need to investigate.

Furthermore, by eliminating a very popular hunting strategy, it is questionable whether or not they will be able to achieve the increased harvest goals necessary, actually exacerbating the problem.

I don't claim to know the answers but it's going to get interesting for sure.

KPC

I agree with you that it is a feel good for the DNR and nothing else. Just let Mother Nature run its course.

Kevin, I have heard that often. If the population again increases with the baiting ban, I think that would risk increasing the number of infected carriers. There might be a balance in there somewhere between baiting regs and locations. We have numerous DNR bait plots up here on public land in the areas I hunt. If the DNR is hard over on banning bait and not bait plots....do you see any benefit to the DNR increasing and/or start installing bait plots on public land to help keep the harvest up?

Seems to me a better compromise would be allowing the use of broadcast feeders that more closely replicate natural food sources like acorns.

It's my understanding that the concern is with baits like beets that can be partially eaten by numerous animals.

KPC

One of the places where I have one of my perennial stands has one these bait plots....maybe 2 acres. This year was the first year I have seen anyone hunt it. Some one built up a natural ground blind near it. I have a stand area about 300 yards behind it in the woods. I know the blind was there but I never physically seen anyone there. I've never heard of any squabbles over these plots. One of the whitetail clubs used to put these plots in for the DNR...I don't know who does it now but these are usually tilled and planted with what looks like rye or some type of wheat. Here are some GE's of a few of them to give you an idea of what they look like. If they had more of these around and planted with something a little better...who knows...it might work out to something positive.

:)

I'm only speculating here but it could be that one of the reasons you don't see many people hunting over those public land food plots is because people had the ability to establish their own bait sites. Now that the bait option has been taken off the table, things might change at the public plots. They say that "necessity is the mother of invention" but it can also be the father of tactic changes.

Private land is a whole different story. Take my land as an example. I have a couple mature white oaks on my land, as well as a number of apple trees. In the years the oaks are producing that's where the deer are, at least until the acorns are gone. In the years they don't produce if I hang a broadcast feeder in the same tree, does that somehow put the deer at more risk than if they were eating acorns? Or how about the apple trees. The deer (as well as other wildlife) will continue to visit those trees until that apples that fall are gone...which is usually the first couple weeks of bow season. If I continue to make sure there are apples under those trees until later in the season, does that put the same deer at any more risk?

Other than those things, my land is pretty poor habitat as is much of the habitat in northern lower Michigan, but that's where I choose to hunt. I have no desire whatsoever to start farming in order to see deer. I believe I am representative of the vast majority of Michigan hunters.

In my opinion, the vast majority of hunters, probably well in excess of 80% are just casual, recreational hunters, especially those that predominantly hunt public land. Very few of them have any desire to become farmers in order to be successful. The DNR's worst nightmare is that many of those people will just find something else to do in the fall.

Seems to me that there are areas of compromise that can keep interest and success up and not put the resource at undue risk.

KPC

Something folks can do if they want to try and make their own luck on public or private with little effort.....get some cheap fertilizer and spread it under some select oak and/or apple trees in the early spring. That does work in fostering a good acorn and apple crop in the fall. I did water troughs this past year on private and the deer responded to it....along with some pesky coons.

In sheep, it has been found that there are strains of sheep that demonstrate a natural resistance to scrapie (the prion disease found in sheep related to CWD). It would be reasonable that a similar population of deer show the same resistance however one must understand that their is a vast difference between a domesticated animal (sheep) and a wild animal (deer). The genetics of sheep have been manipulated for centuries by directed breeding. The link between the rise and spread of CWD within the cervadae family has a correlation with commercial operations. The population of deer (elk, moose, etc.) in breeding/game farm operations is minute compared to the wild populations which means that selection for CWD resistance is random rather than directed as seen in sheep. Before a wide spread of CWD genetical resistance would be seen in the wild, the incidence of CWD would have to rise to epidemic proportions...something not seen. Even in areas of high CWD infection, most deer still test negative^*.

^*Remember: the screening test done on all harvested deer only tell that a deer is negative for CWD at the level of the sensitivity of the commercial assay used. All positives must be confirmed by a more sensitive assay at the Ames Laboratory.

Yup....unless of course you're on public land. Maybe a good question the DNR will need to answer if/when more positives are found after baiting is banned....what will they blame it on next?

The host interviewed Chad Stewart from the DNR. Most if not all of his answers to questions submitted by viewers had the answer of "We hope" "We think" "I Think" "We will try" "Other states have tried" "We don't know yet" "That's a good question....we are checking into that" "This is what we are hoping for"

If you were looking for a sense of confidence that the DNR is on the right path in its fight against CWD this interview did nothing to gain it.