Contributors to this thread:
Has anyone heard if any of the Elk have been taken yet?
Last I herd two were taken by hunters and four by the Tribes.
I know the RMEF tag was filled. Small bull. I can't believe there hasn't been more publicity.
Me too Skook, I thought about it and checked on-line but found nothing.
I would hope something comes out soon about the hunt. They should be covering this more.
If I had drawn a tag and killed a bull I sure as heck wouldn't publicize the fact. Too many crazies out there....
Apparently some haven't hunted yet. I can't imagine drawing that tag and missing opening day.
I contacted Kevin Wallenfang and got a reply back. The tribes have taken their 5 and are done. State hunters have taken 1 so far. He said many state hunters have not hunted yet.
I doubt the tribes have taken only 5.
I doubt Wallenfang has ever stated a fact.
I doubt Wallenfang has ever stated a fact.
I doubt you have anything to base your doubt on.
No one has seen any photos anywhere yet?
I saw one bull photo, but can't recall where...it was of the first bull taken I think. A 5 point.
This will be me in 10 years taking my first WI elk.
Actually I do but this is not the place.
Actually I do but this is not the place.
Then don't bring it up at all.
It appears that the bull harvested involves some controversy. The hunter allegedly shot across a gravel road and has been cited for the violation.
"Actually I do but this is not the place." "Then don't bring it up at all." Albino, this thread is not the place but maybe a new thread? All of us are interested in knowing about the people who help manage our wildlife.
Story posted on MJS about the citation to first elk shot by a state-licensed hunter in Wisconsin's inaugural elk hunting season. Looks like he shot it on a gravel forest road.
Dang kids should learn a little more self control. I blame the video games. :/
I wonder if the guy is the type that just refuses to listen to the guide's directions.
I don't think my post was as off topic as the one after. The name was brought up & I thought a reminder was needed as to what a poor job he does if someone is believing what numbers he throws out. Just saying...
Anytime you guys wish to discuss anything related to deer or elk management, please feel free to contact me 608-261-7589 or
[email protected]. I'm not on bowsite often, but I do look when curious about the buzz around controversial issues. Good to see that most of you are up to speed with accurate information for the others. I'm happy to talk anytime to anyone.
With that said, if you haven't seen it already, here is the reason there hasn't been a lot of hype about the elk hunt results so far. And as to the numbers, the tribes have indeed filled their quota of 5, and the story is below about the 1 killed by state hunters so far.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/outdoors/2018/10/23/franklin-man-cited-illegally-shooting-elk-during-inaugural-hunt/1742557002/
As I said, if you have questions, feel free to contact me at the above phone or email. Best of luck to all of you during this most wonderful time of the year!
There ya go Albino - you can now give Kevin a call and tell him in person your thoughts on his job performance!
Thanks for the post Kevin!!
OMG - Very first elk kill and the involved party has to commit a violation - Really? It's like we get enough negative press as hunters and then this has to happen. I don't get it.
good to see that reply from KW. What a mess though for that elk kill
I have talked to him a few times in person. I would not say anything about someone that I would not say to their face. I still feel the same way. He is one of the DNR that needs to go. Sorry & there you go. One of the reasons I use my real name on here instead of hiding behind a keyboard. I'm sure I will run into him again soon. There is one other one that is much worse if you would like to call him too.
Funny, I have no idea who you might be and you've never had the courage in all those times we've supposedly talked to call me out. This is my 40th year of sitting in trees during the great Wisconsin rut and if you can find someone who LISTENS to and cares more about bowhunters, relates to hunters, respects hunters, agrees with the frustration and concerns of hunters, works harder on behalf of hunters, and walks the walk more than I do then perhaps you are right. I will step aside and wish him/her luck in the job. I stand in front of groups like the Wisconsin Bowhunters and any other opportunity when asked every year and share what I know...am honest when I don't know.....and do so without fear because I never say what can't be backed up (sorry if what I might say does not match your perception, but "perception is reality" and I respect that too). I'll do the same for any group (already on the speaker list for WI Traditional Bowhunters this winter) or individual. Hope to see some of you there and please feel free to introduce yourself. Love talking to bowhunters! And thanks to all of you who are sending positive feedback. I hope the good karma pays off for you on upcoming hunts!!
I have not run into you since your last batch of fake numbers on the buck harvester per weapon that you put out conveniently days before the vote on x guns at the CC hearings. That was pure tripe & a very dishonest move to further your agenda of more dead deer no mater what it takes. Play fair & don't change the numbers 3 times to get them to sound the way you want them. This is my 52nd year of sitting in those trees during the rut & if you read my message that you misquoted as per usual you would see that it say I talked to you a few times, not all those times & as for courage yes I have talked to you about issues until you get angry so I walk away because I know I am wasting my time. Then as for you calling me a coward that is funny. Do you know what a coward is. Look in the mirror. See how professional you are not. So you come on Bow Site when you get a call. Can't you even admit that. At least you gave us a report that we already had. I do appreciate your time during this busy rut season. I will reintroduce myself next time we cross paths. I am always around but I am usually working.
Whoa!!! Mr. Albino. "Courage" may have been the wrong word, but I did not intend to imply that you were a coward. I don't know you and would have basis of doing so. I apologize that you took it that way.
You stated we've talked. I looked up your name and found your pictures and many other WBH BOD members who I know well, and honestly do not recall ever speaking to you. If we have, I assume it likely occurred at the Bowhunters convention and I've never had what I would consider a bad experience there in the seven years I've presented to the membership. (And Mr. Brust continues to invite me every year for all the reasons previously listed). But like I said, perception is everything and what you may have thought was "angry" (if we did actually speak) perhaps was just the other side of an issue that you didn't wish to hear.
I'm flattered that you think I have the final say in when and how reports are distributed, but I don't, nor does the other "worse" person you are referring to.. Considering that deer seasons run through January now, numbers get checked and finalized in February at which time a summary can then be written, doesn't it stand to reason that any summary coming out of the deer seasons would hit the streets in March? It's unfortunate that you think there are personal agendas at play, but it just isn't true. Many within the department are asked to put reports together with numbers that are public record, available for anyone to study. Those reports are reviewed by many to ensure their accuracy. The numbers in the report you are referring to (Weapons Use Report for anyone not familiar with it and its available on the DNR web site if you'd like to see it) never changed, but various people within the department did work with Mr. Brust and other to explain them. (And by the way, I think Mr. Brust has served WBH very well! He and I may not always agree, but I respect him as a good person and his dedication to WBH)
I came on bowsite to provide a few figures and clear up the rumor mill about the elk hunt with no other intentions. Unfortunately, it "went sideways" just a bit, and is the reason you don't normally see department staff chime in on these forums. But my offer and commitment to all of you stands.......leave the personal shots and assumptions aside, and don't get angry with each other or the garbage that comes out of the rumor mill. Solutions start with facts and mature conversations. If you want to know who I am or how I do my job, or are in need of any information that I can help you find, I welcome you to give me a call anytime. Good luck!
This matter should be taken care of some other way than here! Make personal contact or use the phone!
This matter should be taken care of some other way than here! Make personal contact or use the phone!
I am more than happy to get together & chat. The last place we talked was at the deer & turkey expo. I come on this forum to voice my personal opinions & not the opinion of WBH. I also feel they do a great service to the bowhunters of the state. Mr. Brust does speak highly of you & I have not shared my opinion of this issue with him. I would like to schedule a face to face with you after the bow season as things do seem to get lost in translation. I do apreciate your replys & look forward to our disscussion.
Sounds good, and that's the way to get things done. I look forward to hearing from you.
PMs and e-mails work well for this stuff, gents.
Kevin, thanks for showing up and defending yourself. Lots of unfounded statements get tossed around willie-nillie on these boards.
As far as the underlying elk story—hopefully it’s unfounded. A real black eye towards Wisconsin hunters. First elk—Shot illegally. Ugh
I'm very interested in the exchanged between Mr. Wallenfang and Albino!
Hats off to Mr. Wallenfang for having the guts to come on here and comment and give us (me) some information. With some of this bunch, that's takes balls.
I think it shows some "moxie" for a WDNR employee to ACTUALLY read this forum and actually see some of the concerns. And then come out and make a comment!
Like Mr. Wallenfang points out, that is the main reason WDNR employees don't comment is because of ridicule or being bashed. Or, as Mr. Wallenfang stated "went sideways".
With as many years Mr. Wallenfang has in the business, many long term employees "burn out" and become a ROD (retired on duty) - its refreshing to actually see a WDNR employee hop aboard this bus and chit-chat with us! I think that is pretty cool!
As a public employee I know it's not easy to take a public attack - thick skin comes to mind!
Sounds like this exchange has ended on a happy note and open conversation will follow between these two gentlemen.
I'm all for that! Awesome!
This is EXACTLY the place these conversations need to happen....out in the open. When you do work on behalf of the public each and every citizen has the right to express their feelings about the job that public servant provides. Seems Mr. Wallenfang understands this and accepts it.
I commend Kevin for posting. DNR employees are frequently the scapegoat for any and all woes (real or perceived) that have anything to do with the outdoors. The vast majority of the time that blame is misplaced. Add to that the pressure from the Governor, Legislature, and the NRB for staff to keep quiet, and it does indeed take balls to come on a public forum.
I have had many conversations with Kevin and frequently hear presentations by him and on some occasions had a difference of opinion with him but have always found him to be forthcoming and open to discussion.
The violation does tarnish this positive event but we should celebrate the achievement and try and educate the best we can that this hunter's actions don't represent all of us.
Sad situation that this this first elk kill may have happened the way it sounds. No matter how the case ends up there will always be this stigma about what happened.
Does anyone know how much the tag that was auctioned off was sold for?
So that was the Auctioned off tag? I can only imagine the "Dude" that bought that. Some Money people do not like to get dirty. I would like to here how the tribe got there elk though? This would have been legal for them.
Hey guys, actually the tag was not purchased in auction by the highest bidder, but rather won with the purchase of a $10 raffle ticket, available to all. The requirement for RMEF to raffle the tag is established in State Statutes and prohibits them from selling it in auction. I'm sure it could be sold for much more than the raffle made (about $50,000, and when working for them I witnessed tags sell for many times that in auction), but then it wouldn't have been available to us all. The raffle proceeds are earmarked for spending only in Wisconsin for elk management and elk research purposes. The other four tags were issued through the state application process which included over 38,000 applications, also earmarked for elk.
Thanks for clarifying that Kevin. I am getting old and my memory of those kind of details needs a little help now days.
When I think back on all of the great elk hunts I've had it really is sad that this one went down this way...
Thanks Kevin for coming on here and being a professional. I'm also a public servant/government official and I know how thankless it can be...
Yes, I was also but the State retirement is great. I even worked for the Dnr for a bit.
I also appreciate Kevin coming on. It seems like those of us that were or are public servants work 24/7/365. I can remember working Christmases & Thanksgivings & all night long for no extra pay. So I do know it is thankless & I do appreciate him offering to meet with me personally. I will not squander the time.
Albino - Think it's great you and Kevin are getting together!! Hopefully you two get some ideas mustered up and have a good exchange!!
Good shooting!
What is you guys take on the infraction? From what I read it said "shooting across a road and hunting within 50` from the center line of a road" in the articles I read. Then I hear it`s a back country gravel road etc. What`s the real inside skinny on this...accident or flagrant?
My take is it is something that probably happens quite a bit in remote areas because there's so few people. Its not like the guy was shooting something standing on HWY 8. Seems that the rules for the hunt was you had to call the warden when you harvest your animal. The warden seems to be a very strict by the book man. You always here about wardens using discretion when it comes to violations ....in this particular case I wish some was used but rules are rules.
Discretion? The guy was standing in the road and shot the bull that was standing in the road ahead of him. It seems pretty cut and dry. His age or the fact that the road isn’t traveled much should have no impact on this case. Our firs bull will forever be marked by an asterisk.
As I said rules are rules, there is no gray area. But a over grown dirt forest road that is only 20 feet wide isn't what I have in mind when I think of a "road". It also sounds like it was the finishing shot that was on/next to the road (I could be wrong) but the initial shot was in the woods. I'll be interested to see how this whole thing plays out.
Anyone here know the guy from Franklin?
It wasn't a dirt road, it was a travelled gravel road and my understanding is that the first shot was across the road.
Well then I change my view.
That`s why I asked....there are back area/logging roads that technically are not designated "roads".....then there are 2 tracks that have a official "road" designation. I understand the guide could have his license revoked also.
Not the publicity RMEF, the state or the hunting community is looking for on our 1st Elk hunt. How does the guide not lose his license and not receive a fine?
The guide didn't tell the hunter to get out and shoot. He isn't a professional guide, he generally does sightseeing tours and was doing this in return for gas money.
I hope the guy "guiding" has his guides license, or he will also be in trouble for taking "gas money". If the guy really did this and he wants his day in court I am sure the courts will oblige. The laws are very clear on where you can and can't shoot a firearm. Common sense tells me this guy obviously didn't care otherwise he wouldn't have pulled the trigger. Personally I hope they throw the book at him. Crusader - This guy did not harvest the first Elk in Wisconsin under the new laws. He violated the law and hopefully will be convicted. He stole from us and should be punished to the full extent of the law! I believe that this also is not the first elk to be taken illegally either. A sad day for the Elk and hunters in Wisconsin for sure.
He did have his guide license and a USFS commercial use permit.
From: JackPine Acres29-Oct-18Private Reply Not the publicity RMEF, the state or the hunting community is looking for on our 1st Elk hunt. How does the guide not lose his license and not receive a fine?
-Well, unless he directed him to do it or ok’d it the guide should not be accounted for the hunter’s (alleged) shooting. I will wait to hear more before making any statements or casting stones. Just too bad that this negative press has to show up on such a positive thing for WI hunters.
I see another article in WON on it.
I see another article in WON on it.
Duke, The elk is dead, there isn't anything (alleged) about if the guy shot the bull. If you are on a gravel road, stop the truck and the guy gets out to load the gun on the road, "the guide" should've said - hold up, we can't shoot from the road or across the road. Especially when he saw him shoulder the gun while standing on the road. All of the tag holders had a meeting with the DNR prior to going out on the hunt. This topic was covered in the meeting per the article in WON.
Regardless of how anyone tries to spin this story, it's is a black eye for Elk hunting in the state of Wisconsin and very disappointing.
As far as the guide getting a fine or losing his license, I don't see it happening unless he stopped let the hunter out and didn't attempt to stop him. Any outfitter/guide worth their "weight" will have their clients sign a contract stating that they run their business according to Wisconsin State Statutes and any infraction of those will be reported to the authorities.
This is still and alleged violation until it goes through the process, even if the facts seem perfectly obvious. That's how our legal system works. Even if there had been ten people there and they all have it on video and swear and affidavit it happened.
As mentioned before, the guide wasn't a professional guide. It sounds like he does a lot of sighteeing/wildlife viewing trips for people but doesn't guide hunters. He decided to help this hunter for whatever reason and was only doing it for gas money so technically he was guiding. Apparently he did get his WI guide license and USFS commercial use permit so he covered his bases on that situation. As far as if he should be punished, I will wait to hear more details before I form an opinion. It would seem like he should have had the time to tell the hunter not to shoot, but maybe there is something that we don't know.
If he were an actual hunting guide with experience dealing with hunters and the implications of the decisions some hunters make, there is no doubt that he should have made certain this didn't happen. Most people who aren't used to having to control an adult hunter don't understand it's not easy for most to recognize what is about to happen and stop it. I can remember plenty of times in AR having to intervene when ducks were about to light because someone took their safety off or were doing something else dangerous. Or having to tell a hunter to unload his gun because he was done hunting because they shot before I or another guide called the shot. And these were all people involved in the hunting industry that were invited guests of manufacturers at very expensive hunting operations. It is something that clearly needs to happen, but it takes some backbone.
Once again, I disagree with you, Jack Pine. Yes, I think we can all agree with you to the fact that the elk is dead, however just because a citation was given to the hunter his guilt has not been proven until he is either found guilty or pleads guilt. Simple stuff. As far as anything in print by WON or other sources... No value.
To hold a guide accountable for infraction made by a client of this nature would be silly. If he directed it, or indicated to him that alleged infraction was legal would be another story.
Once again, wasn’t there, and I’m certain the DNR will get it sorted out with the DA and probably even the alleged perpetrator.
Sad that this is even a discussion.
Well this discussion has had its twists and turns.
Is there any requirements for guides to report violations?
Inmyelement - Being a guide I've reported violations as my guide license is at risk if I saw or knew of a violation. Not sure if it's a requirement, but it's the right thing to do.
I was just wondering if that is how the guide could be fined in this scenario.
I don't know if the guide should be fined, but don't know the full story, but he sure should have reported it.
